BrandBucket Experience

[xtremex]

hello

I am new to BrandBucket. Before getting my hands on this

I wish to experience about brandbucket from my fellow members


Thanks

 

[Scyther]

I am yet to try them.

 

[Nerevar]

I could not replicate these weird "travel" search results that you people have screenshotted above. Whether keyword or category, names look pretty normal to me.

 

[Nerevar]

I think it would suffice to make the search algorithm ownership-blind (already is, I suppose) + featured-status-blind + price-blind.

 

[Grilled]

I could not replicate these weird "travel" search results that you people have screenshotted above. Whether keyword or category, names look pretty normal to me.

Searching 'Travel' in search and Searching Category 'Travel' return two different results.

Searching 'Travel' returns 5,784 results sorted by relevance, from ALL categories. see below

Searching category 'Travel' (as was screenshotted by @Messiah) returns the following 3,888 results.

When organically searching on Google 'Travel Business Names' the returned search URL is categorgy/Travel-Business-Names containing 3,888 rather than the 5,784 that are returned in a 'travel' search.

 

[Nerevar]

@Grilled
Got it now, thanks. Yes, I see that Categories are not arranged by keywords at all. Should they be? Maybe that would be unfair to non-keyword names? I do not have an answer. However, starting the category display with highly expensive names, like it is now, might scare off the customer...

 

[Grilled]

@Grilled
Got it now, thanks. Yes, I see that Categories are not arranged by keywords at all. Should they be? Maybe that would be unfair to non-keyword names?

Good question. I suppose to answer that better, you'd need to analyze the 1,896 domains excluded from category/travel-business-names but included in the larger search=travel. IE

The below domain is on the last page of search=travel, however, since travel isn't listed as category, this domain does not appear anywhere in category/travel-business-names

Where as a domain such as below, is positioned on the first page for category/travel-business-names, but NOT on the first page of search=Travel (though still searchable via search=travel)

All page 1 of search=travel start with letter T. Most contain travel, or if made up, all except for one begins with 'Tr'. The one that doesn't start with TR (below) is also searchable via category/travel-business-names. IMHO, there's more accurate travel results positioned 1st for search=travel than category/travel-business-names

However, starting the category display with highly expensive names, like it is now, might scare off the customer...

Possibly. (this is more so the case of category search than search='') Though, in theory it makes sense for top value real estate to be positioned prominently, just as long the high value domain is unquestioningly relevant to the category / tag / keyword / etc. The below domain is positioned on page 1 (position 11 ((3rd row / 1st one on the left)) yet it isn't overwhelmingly relevant to the travel category. Sure, it's a great domain, but it already receives page 1 search results for just about every 25+ listed tags, keywords, and categories (if not all - haven't checked all) -- does it really need to be on page one of the travel category too? They rejected Bunny/Cloud.com when I was a seller.

However, starting the category display with highly expensive names, like it is now, might scare off the customer...

If we knew more about customer search interaction, we'd be able to speculate on this better. ie Do customers search within a budget, and/or if they are overwhelmed by the front positioned pricey domains, do they skip to the last page of the search where names like (example 1 in this post) are exposed to the buyer?

EDIT: There is away to trump category search via search=....

If you are browsing on https://www.brandbucket.com/category/travel-business-names, you'll see 5,784 results. But if you search 'Travel' while in travel category, it reverts to the 3,888 search=travel.

https://www.brandbucket.com/category/travel-business-names/search=travel

Granted, logic says, most won't search travel while in 'travel' category, but they may search marketing if their business is a travel marketing company. This limits the results to 278 domains containing marketing AND travel in their description.

 

[hookbox]

Good question. I suppose to answer that better, you'd need to analyze the 1,896 domains excluded from category/travel-business-names but included in the larger search=travel. IE

The below domain is on the last page of search=travel, however, since travel isn't listed as category, this domain does not appear anywhere in category/travel-business-names

Show attachment 52062

Where as a domain such as below, is positioned on the first page for category/travel-business-names, but NOT on the first page of search=Travel (though still searchable via search=travel)

Show attachment 52064

All page 1 of search=travel start with letter T. Most contain travel, or if made up, all except for one begins with 'Tr'. The one that doesn't start with TR (below) is also searchable via category/travel-business-names. IMHO, there's more accurate travel results positioned 1st for search=travel than category/travel-business-names

Show attachment 52067



Possibly. (this is more so the case of category search than search='') Though, in theory it makes sense for top value real estate to be positioned prominently, just as long the high value domain is unquestioningly relevant to the category / tag / keyword / etc. The below domain is positioned on page 1 (position 11 ((3rd row / 1st one on the left)) yet it isn't overwhelmingly relevant to the travel category. Sure, it's a great domain, but it already receives page 1 search results for just about every 25+ listed tags, keywords, and categories (if not all - haven't checked all) -- does it really need to be on page one of the travel category too? They rejected Bunny/Cloud.com when I was a seller.

Show attachment 52084



If we knew more about customer search interaction, we'd be able to speculate on this better. ie Do customers search within a budget, and/or if they are overwhelmed by the front positioned pricey domains, do they skip to the last page of the search where names like (example 1 in this post) are exposed to the buyer?

EDIT: There is away to trump category search via search=....

If you are browsing on https://www.brandbucket.com/category/travel-business-names, you'll see 5,784 results. But if you search 'Travel' while in travel category, it reverts to the 3,888 search=travel.

https://www.brandbucket.com/category/travel-business-names/search=travel

Granted, logic says, most won't search travel while in 'travel' category, but they may search marketing if their business is a travel marketing company. This limits the results to 278 domains containing marketing AND travel in their description.

Show attachment 52086

The algorithm is pretty simple to figure out. When searching using "Travel" if the keyword "Travel" is listed in all four spots under the Description, Possible uses, Categories and Keywords then those names get highest priority. The fifth factor is if the actual name has that keyword in it. When searching the keyword "Travel" in the number one spot is Travel/Front. The keyword "Travel" is listed in the Description, Possible uses, Categories, Keywords plus the keyword is in the name. If you hit all five spots plus have the highest pricing you get the number one slot.

Most of the first page when searching "Travel" are names that hit the first four spots. If you have a name that has the "Travel" keyword but you don't hit the four spots then your name could be on page 20 of the search even though your name may have that exact keyword. Hit all four spots plus have the keyword in the name you're on the top of page one. Hit three spots your on page two and back. Hit two spots you are probably on page ten. Hit no spots you're in the back even if you have an exact keyword based name.

It's obviously very important to tag your names correctly to make sure you get on page one. You can have a top notch "Travel" name but if the listing isn't filled out with the correct information then that name could be on page 20 when you do a "Travel" search.

I think the algorithm works the same for everyone but those that have the ability to manually manipulate the keywords in these spots have the greatest advantage. The more input you give the system the higher up your names go on the list.

Not sure how much input regular sellers can give their names, but if they can't give much input then this is the advantage that owners, directors and ambassadors have that other sellers don't.

 

[Grilled]

The algorithm is pretty simple to figure out. When searching using "Travel" if the keyword "Travel" is listed in all four spots under the Description, Possible uses, Categories and Keywords then those names get highest priority.

Great input @hookbox!

The fifth factor is if the actual name has that keyword in it

I think this is the big one. See below search for 'an' Sales/Rack is the first domain that does NOT contain 'an' in the domain, but includes 'an APP' in possible uses thus positioned on page 31. The remaining 622 pages for search 'an' don't contain 'an' in the domain. I think there's a missing data point for preferred domains such as 'Sales/Rack' either price point, or hidden scorecard value or bump feature. Typically you'll find the same high value domains Hi/Oh, Social/ly, etc follow Sales/Rack. Fashion/Bash is not found in 'an' search because 'an' is not included in this domain description, tags, etc.

I ran all the searches for Sales/Rack, which seemingly coincides with your hypothesis @hookbox

Keywords - page - search results for given search=keyword
Business - 1 (9,114 results)
Clothing - 1 (2,544 results)
Devices - 1 (700 results)
Discounts - 1 (391 results)
Frameworks - 1 (86 results)
Holders - 1 (48 results)
Offers - 1 (402 results)
Opportunities - 1 (186 results)
Racks - 1 (120 results)
Sales - 1 (2,642 results)
Shelf - 1 (55 results)
Shelving - 1 (36 results) 1st position
Stacks - 6 (512 results) positioned before several domains containing stack in the name
Stands - 1 (162 results) positioned after domains containing 'stand'
Storage - 1 (1,323 results) positioned after domains containing 'storage'
Towers - 1 - (313 results) positioned after domains containing 'tower'

Description
Savvy - 5 (529 results)
Name - 4 (38,673 results)
That - 1 (12,866 results)
Implies - 1 (418 results)
Savings - 4 (172 results) -- last page

Possible Uses
Discount - 1 (391 results) 4th position >> right AFTER ALL domains containing 'discount'
Retailer - 6 (4,479 results)
A - 1 (44,300 results) Very first result
Platform - 4 (6,407 results)
An - 31 (31,342 results)
App - 24 (18,123 results)
Personal - 7 (825 results)
Shopper - 3 (224 results)
Outlet - 3 (866 results)
Mall - 5 (208 results)

Categories
Fashion - 1 (4,957 results) after domains containing fashion in the domain
Financial - 1 (5,479 results)
Shopping - 1 (4,056 results)

 

[Abdillahi Abdillahi]

Good question. I suppose to answer that better, you'd need to analyze the 1,896 domains excluded from category/travel-business-names but included in the larger search=travel. IE

The below domain is on the last page of search=travel, however, since travel isn't listed as category, this domain does not appear anywhere in category/travel-business-names

Show attachment 52062

Where as a domain such as below, is positioned on the first page for category/travel-business-names, but NOT on the first page of search=Travel (though still searchable via search=travel)

Show attachment 52064

All page 1 of search=travel start with letter T. Most contain travel, or if made up, all except for one begins with 'Tr'. The one that doesn't start with TR (below) is also searchable via category/travel-business-names. IMHO, there's more accurate travel results positioned 1st for search=travel than category/travel-business-names

Show attachment 52067



Possibly. (this is more so the case of category search than search='') Though, in theory it makes sense for top value real estate to be positioned prominently, just as long the high value domain is unquestioningly relevant to the category / tag / keyword / etc. The below domain is positioned on page 1 (position 11 ((3rd row / 1st one on the left)) yet it isn't overwhelmingly relevant to the travel category. Sure, it's a great domain, but it already receives page 1 search results for just about every 25+ listed tags, keywords, and categories (if not all - haven't checked all) -- does it really need to be on page one of the travel category too? They rejected Bunny/Cloud.com when I was a seller.

Show attachment 52084



If we knew more about customer search interaction, we'd be able to speculate on this better. ie Do customers search within a budget, and/or if they are overwhelmed by the front positioned pricey domains, do they skip to the last page of the search where names like (example 1 in this post) are exposed to the buyer?

EDIT: There is away to trump category search via search=....

If you are browsing on https://www.brandbucket.com/category/travel-business-names, you'll see 5,784 results. But if you search 'Travel' while in travel category, it reverts to the 3,888 search=travel.

https://www.brandbucket.com/category/travel-business-names/search=travel

Granted, logic says, most won't search travel while in 'travel' category, but they may search marketing if their business is a travel marketing company. This limits the results to 278 domains containing marketing AND travel in their description.

Show attachment 52086

The algorithm is pretty simple to figure out. When searching using "Travel" if the keyword "Travel" is listed in all four spots under the Description, Possible uses, Categories and Keywords then those names get highest priority. The fifth factor is if the actual name has that keyword in it. When searching the keyword "Travel" in the number one spot is Travel/Front. The keyword "Travel" is listed in the Description, Possible uses, Categories, Keywords plus the keyword is in the name. If you hit all five spots plus have the highest pricing you get the number one slot.

Most of the first page when searching "Travel" are names that hit the first four spots. If you have a name that has the "Travel" keyword but you don't hit the four spots then your name could be on page 20 of the search even though your name may have that exact keyword. Hit all four spots plus have the keyword in the name you're on the top of page one. Hit three spots your on page two and back. Hit two spots you are probably on page ten. Hit no spots you're in the back even if you have an exact keyword based name.

It's obviously very important to tag your names correctly to make sure you get on page one. You can have a top notch "Travel" name but if the listing isn't filled out with the correct information then that name could be on page 20 when you do a "Travel" search.

I think the algorithm works the same for everyone but those that have the ability to manually manipulate the keywords in these spots have the greatest advantage. The more input you give the system the higher up your names go on the list.

Not sure how much input regular sellers can give their names, but if they can't give much input then this is the advantage that owners, directors and ambassadors have that other sellers don't.

Excellent relevant posta @hookbox and @Grilled.

A quote from this article http://dngeek.com/2016/09/keith-deboer-brandbuckets-newest-ambassador/

which is when a new ambassador was recruited(?) says

" What are the special perks and resources ambassadors receive?
Ambassadors receive a BrandBucket email account and business cards. They’re also eligible for financial subsidies when they attend domaining conferences and other industry events. They also have increased access to BrandBucket staff and have increased influence over their portfolio’s content and pricing."

So that is clear of course. About the 5 keywords point to hit, I have Tech/Trapper. It has the word "Technology" in all other fours points except being part of the name and is at #14 of page 2.

I do know manual placement is also available not just automatic. A seller I know was so pissed with the placement of a name that started with the keyword of the category. His domain was made the last page of the same keyword while another featured name published on the same time was showing on first page. He complained to BBs support and the name is now on first page of the same keyword and in the same place with the featured name.

So manual is done too.

 

[Arca]

Can you imagine if I listened to the knockers? I would now be $10K worse off.

Congrats on actually pocketing $10000 from your first four BB sales! That means your average sales price was more than $3700 for each name. I'm surprised, to be honest. Few sellers manage to pull in those kinds of sums with their first few BB sales, so that's impressive. Keep on disregarding the knockers and build up your BB empire

 

[Grilled]

Not sure how much input regular sellers can give their names, but if they can't give much input then this is the advantage that owners, directors and ambassadors have that other sellers don't.

I think the quote above says everything that needs to be said about this issue. Dismissing any conspiracy theories of improper placement, the underlying issue is the ability to tag properly. If management and ambassadors have an easier time getting their tags / categories / descriptive words approved, it's because they're vetted, and assuming granting their requested tags don't take away from BB writer resources (the resources that normal sellers pay $10 for per name), they're fine with it. The issue being, if a preferred member can manipulate their searches via proper tags, and other's can't, there is a distinct and proven advantage in the search. To me it seems they are paying less for more, at the expense of their own time. I'd argue that the ability to tag / categorize your own domains is a similar advantage to professional athletes who use steroids and work out on their own time. I have experienced this problem with another brandable marketplace. Tags and categories are extremely important for visibility, yet control of such remains in the hands of top sellers.

@Simdes I sorry to hear your request for review was not approved for a redo. That said, I honestly think that its 100x more important to focus on the keywords AND categories for each of your listings, versus focusing on the logo. A buyer can change the logo, they cant change the domain once bought.

This time last year, this thread (maybe, more so myself) was in a heated debate about logo's. At the time, bb ambassador Domainzy, conceded that keywords and categories were 100x more important than logo's.

After analyzing search positions in large scale, I have to agree with Domainzy that categories / keywords ARE extremely important for bb search visibility. Not sure if it's 100x, as these domains receive direct type in traffic, and a bad logo could result in a loss sale if a better packaged domain catches their eye after coming to bb.

The issue being, regular sellers can't control keywords and categories. Sure, we can recommend, but in my previous experience it was a crapshot getting my requested descriptions / categories approved. Normal sellers have the ability to see how many search results are in bb's inventory per keyword search, but (unless subscribing to their 15 most searched keywords) it's unclear what searches results in the most sales, and which tags / categories have more visibility. That said, not knowing, allows the member to be unbiased to advantages if given the ability to properly tag / categorize their domain. Maybe I'm wrong. Perhaps, they do allow you to edit your tags etc after publishing?

The placement of /category is a completely different topic than the placement of /search= as placement isn't depended on search. -- don't get me started on this. This is a discussion for another day...

They also have increased access to BrandBucket staff and have increased influence over their portfolio’s content and pricing.

My input is all speculation and assumption. I understand pricing and/or manual placing has a big impact in search results as well. I assume this advantage is not up for discussion, hence the focus, is on normal sellers gaining the ability to properly categorize and tag their domains with the same attention to detail afforded to staff and ambassadors. I doubt they'll see this input, as I assume they all have me on 'ignore'

 

[Arca]

I doubt they'll see this input, as I assume they all have me on 'ignore'

It has been confirmed several times that the BB owner and manager do not read this thread.

 

[Arca]

It has been confirmed several times that the BB owner and manager do not read this thread.

Their main channel for accepting feedback is the private Slack channel. It seems sellers there have easy and direct access to discuss issues with the BB management directly.

You might be able to reach them directly through email, but personally I was not able to get a reply when I reached out MK last fall to seek some clarification and discuss my concerns regarding their review process, so I'm not sure how effective that strategy is in general...

 

[Grilled]

It has been confirmed several times that the BB owner and manager do not read this thread.

Their / my long term loss than. June 8th, 2016 was the last time the managing director added content to NamePros. The owner last logged on to NP May 25th, 2016.

I know at least one of their stated ambassadors regularly watches this thread. Part of his / her ambassadorship is to better bridge the gap between staff sellers and member sellers.

http://www.prweb.com/releases/brandbucket/ambassador/prweb13664969.htm

We also recognized Keith’s ability to translate feedback from the seller community into actionable feature improvements to our platform, so we are looking forward to working more closely with him on the development side as well."

 

[Arca]

Their / my long term loss than. June 8th, 2016 was the last time the managing director added content to NamePros. The owner last logged on to NP May 25th, 2016.

I know at least one of their stated ambassadors regularly watches this thread. Part of his / her ambassadorship is to better bridge the gap between staff sellers and member sellers.

http://www.prweb.com/releases/brandbucket/ambassador/prweb13664969.htm

What kinds of long term loss do they suffer?

 

[hookbox]

Excellent relevant posta @hookbox and @Grilled.

A quote from this article http://dngeek.com/2016/09/keith-deboer-brandbuckets-newest-ambassador/

which is when a new ambassador was recruited(?) says

" What are the special perks and resources ambassadors receive?
Ambassadors receive a BrandBucket email account and business cards. They’re also eligible for financial subsidies when they attend domaining conferences and other industry events. They also have increased access to BrandBucket staff and have increased influence over their portfolio’s content and pricing."

So that is clear of course. About the 5 keywords point to hit, I have Tech/Trapper. It has the word "Technology" in all other fours points except being part of the name and is at #14 of page 2.

I do know manual placement is also available not just automatic. A seller I know was so pissed with the placement of a name that started with the keyword of the category. His domain was made the last page of the same keyword while another featured name published on the same time was showing on first page. He complained to BBs support and the name is now on first page of the same keyword and in the same place with the featured name.

So manual is done too.

The algorithm will pick up on the keyword if it's in any part of the name. If someone searches the word Tech it will pick it up on keywords like technology, technical, technician, techie etc......Your name Tech/Trapper hits all 5 points. Tech is in the description, possible uses, categories and keywords plus has the keyword in the name. There are two things that are part of the algorithm that keeps you off of page one. Price and Length. You're pricing it at $1,995. Out of the 48 names on page one only 3 are priced under $2,000. Those 3 hit all five points like yours but are shorter in length. Length obviously plays an important role in placement.

Most of the names on page one hit all 5 points but are higher priced and shorter in length which is why they are on page one. Another part of the algorithm is the strength of the secondary word. Tech/Mule hits all 5 points and is priced at $2,195 which should land it on page one but whatever value they give the secondary keyword lowers it's overall score and bumps it to page two. I do think length plays a huge role in placement and this is why you will see 4 and 5 letter names that may only hit one or two points land on page one which shows that length and higher pricing is a crucial part of the algorithm.

Some of those shorter names are owned by the insiders but some are not. Some are listed by sellers that I have never ever seen sell a name before so to say those are manually put there doesn't make sense to me. Having said that I still do believe that in the higher searched categories that names are manually manipulated to some degree.

 

[Arca]

The algorithm will pick up on the keyword if it's in any part of the name. If someone searches the word Tech it will pick it up on keywords like technology, technical, technician, techie etc......Your name Tech/Trapper hits all 5 points. Tech is in the description, possible uses, categories and keywords plus has the keyword in the name. There are two things that are part of the algorithm that keeps you off of page one. Price and Length. You're pricing it at $1,995. Out of the 48 names on page one only 3 are priced under $2,000. Those 3 hit all five points like yours but are shorter in length. Length obviously plays an important role in placement.

Most of the names on page one hit all 5 points but are higher priced and shorter in length which is why they are on page one. Another part of the algorithm is the strength of the secondary word. Tech/Mule hits all 5 points and is priced at $2,195 which should land it on page one but whatever value they give the secondary keyword lowers it's overall score and bumps it to page two. I do think length plays a huge role in placement and this is why you will see 4 and 5 letter names that may only hit one or two points land on page one which shows that length and higher pricing is a crucial part of the algorithm.

Some of those shorter names are owned by the insiders but some are not. Some are listed by sellers that I have never ever seen sell a name before so to say those are manually put there doesn't make sense to me. Having said that I still do believe that in the higher searched categories that names are manually manipulated to some degree.

Do your own names get fair placement on BB, in accordance with your in-depth understanding of their algorithm?

 

[Abdillahi Abdillahi]

The algorithm will pick up on the keyword if it's in any part of the name. If someone searches the word Tech it will pick it up on keywords like technology, technical, technician, techie etc......Your name Tech/Trapper hits all 5 points. Tech is in the description, possible uses, categories and keywords plus has the keyword in the name. There are two things that are part of the algorithm that keeps you off of page one. Price and Length. You're pricing it at $1,995. Out of the 48 names on page one only 3 are priced under $2,000. Those 3 hit all five points like yours but are shorter in length. Length obviously plays an important role in placement.

Most of the names on page one hit all 5 points but are higher priced and shorter in length which is why they are on page one. Another part of the algorithm is the strength of the secondary word. Tech/Mule hits all 5 points and is priced at $2,195 which should land it on page one but whatever value they give the secondary keyword lowers it's overall score and bumps it to page two. I do think length plays a huge role in placement and this is why you will see 4 and 5 letter names that may only hit one or two points land on page one which shows that length and higher pricing is a crucial part of the algorithm.

Some of those shorter names are owned by the insiders but some are not. Some are listed by sellers that I have never ever seen sell a name before so to say those are manually put there doesn't make sense to me. Having said that I still do believe that in the higher searched categories that names are manually manipulated to some degree.

Makes sense. Great explanation. Thanks

 

[hookbox]

Do your own names get fair placement on BB, in accordance with your in-depth understanding of their algorithm?

I have zero names listed at BB. Some very bright minds own and run the brandable marketplaces and by studying their systems and getting into their brains a bit it gives me a much better understanding of how the brandable market ticks, and in turn gives me an advantage when buying and selling brandable domains.

 

[Grilled]

What kinds of long term loss do they suffer?

IMO:

Loss of customer feedback = a missed opportunity to advance / stay on top.

Though, monetarily, I believe the current system to be in their best interest, so technically no immediate losses. The only real longterm impact would be sales inequality and/or if another company picked up on their shortfalls and gained market share.