Bought site and the advertised traffic was not real

[pertosda]

Hi,

I am basically looking for some advice in a delicate situation:

I bought a site at Site Point and the advertised traffic was 12,000 monthly uniques (actually in only a few days). The source of the traffic was from MySpace ads and other and it was meant to be announced during one more month at least.

After buying the sites, nearly one week ago, the traffic is next to nothing, below 100 so far. Also the site has a duplicate site (this was not advertised) and the service it uses has some limitations (not advertised either).

When I found out this I talked to the seller (who was very collaborative until that moment) but he was not willing to refund me the money, saying I did not ask the right questions and the transaction was over.

I insisted a lot and the seller said he had a partner who receives the payments and he would talk to him. Today I was told his partner said it was an auction so everything is over but I could get his addres so I will try and talk to him when he is online.

This is clearly unethical, but I would also say it is a scam, since the traffic seems to be fake or something. Is there anything else I can do if finally his partner does not want to send my money back?

Thanks.

 

[DotUSDomains]

did you ask how much they spent on advertising the site to get that many uniques?

Also did they show you how and where they done the advertising.

If you believe it was a scam and if they are not very helpfull (if they blank you or ignore you) i would if paid by paypal start a chargeback.

I have done it 2 times as the sellers did not provide any support at all.

Since they said it's an auction and everything is over they are not very good as i always expect some sort of support/help after purchase and if they did offer but did not follow through i'd make sure they knew about it.

Now i only work with 1 company and that sorts these problems out.

Keep on at them and if they just ignore you cause them some sort of problems in the form of a chargeback only if you believe they deliberatly scammed you. But before you do try emailing them a good few times just to be sure as it works both ways.

Thats my opinion as i've been scammed a few times and i actually liked causing the person some problem (bad me hehe)

 

[pertosda]

Well, at this stage, they dont exactly "ignore me". At least the guy who was in charge of the sale has me on his MSN and he is online so he has not wiped me out of his list.

He seems to be upset or surprised at me asking for a refund but at least he gave me the address of his partner (who seems to be in charge of the payments and everything).

I dont know how the chargeback thing works at PayPal, is that really possible? That could turn me into trouble of any way? I dont know if it is a deliberate scam but the site it is still advertised at that forum with 12,000 uniques in a few days (you can see screenshots) and my traffic is far below that, I dont know if that is enough.

Thanks for your comment, Stevie.

 

[quality]

I am afraid I dont have much sympathy for you....caveat emptor....buyer beware. You cant trust all the people in this business. Sometimes you have to learn the hard way. Take it as a hard earned lesson ands concentrate on doing something more productive.

 

[vokkerzen]

I agree, people have a tendancy to exagerate in many cases. It is hard to provide traffic

 

[Mark]

I am afraid I dont have much sympathy for you....caveat emptor....buyer beware.

??? I'll be damned if I don't have sympathy for him .... The entire World is a "Buyer Beware" market - I agree , But if they didn't tell him the junk traffic from CRAPSPACE Erm ... I mean MySpace was going to end overnight (or already had) , Then they should be held accountable.





If you paid for it on paypal using a credit card - You may have a leg to stand on for a chargeback - But paypal still is very hard to get a refund on when it comes to Domains and Websites.

I would file a complaint with them ASAP though ....


Please keep us informed and if You don't mind - Drop me a PM with the Sellers ID and the former domain whois.

I wouldn't expect much help from Sitepoint either BTW , They have very little Moderation from what I see - And this is definitely not the first I've heard like this over there. When is the last time anyone was even banned over there ?

 

[floatingworld]

Is there a written contract and what does it say?
If the sale is based on assumptions which are not in the contract that you have made then there is not much comeback.
Unless there are substantial sums involved it will not be worth your while taking legal action.

 

[pertosda]

There is not written contract but I have all the information in emails and private messages, clearly stating that the advertisement would go on for at least 1 more month. Its not an amount big enough to start legal action but I cant afford to spend that money in something that just wont work.

It is just the first time I find someone in this business with such an unethical doing (also hiding things and so on). I mean if I sell something and in two days the buyer is not happy or satisfied I could perfectly arrange a friendly outcome for the situation.

I will try to talk to them and see if it is necessary to start a dispute on PayPal. If I do so I will inform the seller first.

I am afraid I dont have much sympathy for you....caveat emptor....buyer beware. You cant trust all the people in this business. Sometimes you have to learn the hard way. Take it as a hard earned lesson ands concentrate on doing something more productive.

I was not asking for simpathy... however, I dont see what is bothering you from my post. Thanks anyway for your comments.

 

[.X.]

??? I'll be damned if I don't have sympathy for him .... The entire World is a "Buyer Beware" market - I agree , But if they didn't tell him the junk traffic from CRAPSPACE Erm ... I mean MySpace was going to end overnight (or already had) , Then they should be held accountable.





If you paid for it on paypal using a credit card - You may have a leg to stand on for a chargeback - But paypal still is very hard to get a refund on when it comes to Domains and Websites.

I would file a complaint with them ASAP though ....


Please keep us informed and if You don't mind - Drop me a PM with the Sellers ID and the former domain whois.

I wouldn't expect much help from Sitepoint either BTW , They have very little Moderation from what I see - And this is definitely not the first I've heard like this over there. When is the last time anyone was even banned over there ?

i agree Mark,Scammers make thier way into this industry with thier agendas set,This is a prime case of false traffic reporting by the seller...Earlier this year i heard of a case where it costs the buyer 51K from buying so called traffic domain names with bogus traffic stats...Our mods here keep up with scammers....send them all the information you can.

 

[irishmat]

try the paypal chargeback and keep being persistant

 

[pertosda]

Currently I am at the persistant stage. I emailed today the guy who seem to be in charge of payments explaining him all the details of the situation (in case he was not completely aware of it).

If I dont get an answer in two days I will send a second email. Another two days and I will open a dispute at PayPal and send details about the sellers to NamePros and Site Point moderators, so they are aware of everything. If they dont want to send the money back, should I make public their names and usernames? maybe also post the mails and PMs?

 

[AMDWarrior]

Id go the chargeback way, but do it quick, paypal funny about those type of things..

 

[Ben42]

Sitepoint is a great place to sell sites, but in my opinion a very POOR place to buy them. They really need a feedback system and they don't allow potential buyers to question a sites statictics anymore. Even if they do the seller can just delete the post!

Anyway, damage done.

If the traffic is not as advertised then that is a fraud auction and you should contact the seller and Sitepoint saying the site was not as advertised and demand a refund. Yes, an auction is an auction and the buyer is responsible for payment. But, if an auction house auctioned a fake item claiming it as real you can rest assured they'd find themselves in court and nobody bidding on anything there ever again. Not only the seller, but Sitepoint needs to step in to save face.

 

[pertosda]

Thanks for all your comments, I really appreciate.

I dont have any response from the payments responsible yet, so I can start to consider they are ignoring me. I will wait until tomorrow and start a PayPal dispute.

I wonder if that will work to get me the money back though...

 

[pertosda]

update: after two days of sending my last email to the guy in charge I do not have an answer so I just emailed them back saying I will start a dispute tomorrow.

 

[mojojo]

good luck David :\

 

[Keynes]

Try to reach an agreement with the seller, otherwise you might want to contact an attorney (you have an "informal" contract agreement based on the details they gave you) to try to get it resolved

 

[JYM]

Man, that sucks. From past experience with Paypal, I can only hope that they will pull through on this one and refund your money. The last time I was scammed with a server deal, they did not refund since it was an "untangible" item.

However, be sure to include sitepoint's thread and any other information you have.

Good luck!

 

[Badger]

If these people told you that the site has 12,000 uniques and this is in fact true. And you didnt investigate this traffic and/or receive any guarantee as to the liklihood of the traffics continuation then what is your beef... I dont believe there is any breach of contract from the sellers behalf..

Questionable practice - sure, a grey area - sure, caveat emptor - sure. What you can do about it - not so sure.

You seriously need to revisit your correspondence with the seller/s and see if they make any claim that the traffic will remain. If indeed they make any claim that is indeed false then you have a case and you should be able to reclaim your money.. In this instance, if they have misrepresented the sale and made false claims, then this would almost certainly be a criminal matter prosecutable as fraud...

I find the threat of reporting a criminal offence to the authorities has more sway than a chargeback...

And in any respect, take it as a hard lesson learned.

 

[pertosda]

Yes, they told me by PM the traffic will continue for at least one more month. However, it is going to be hard to get my money back...

Their final answer: "Go ahead and dispute it. You won an auction and that's final. Your chances of winning this dispute are zero. You should have not gone through before everything was transfered."

BTW, the thread in SitePoint is http://www.site[REMOVE]point.com/marketplace/auction/746?

Private messages at SitePoint Forum

In Blue my comments (pertosda) and in Red the seller's (ImageMule):


1. You say you're selling because you dont have a hosting account. What hosting needs has this site? I is php, plain html? Anything special?

2. I have been checking CDYNE site and there are several webservices they offer, but I cant find the one offered at Caller_Bot. How does it work? BTW that is only for USA, isnt it?

3. Finally about the ads you payed for. How long will they last for? How much was the promotion in case I need to do it again? Your main referrers are profilemods.com and myspace.com, I wonder if that will go on once the sale is done.



I am a reputable member on this website (Sitepoint). I have sold other websites and templates on this website and can provide references or links to those websites if you like.

1. All you need is plain html and php. Nothing special is needed

2. I named the service Caller_Bot myself. They offer a solution that lets you make calls and we created a form that submits to them. I contacted them and set it up working with them. I believe this only works for USA, but I have had some people that said it works for Canada and most cell phones. I can only gaurantee that it works for USA though.

3. Traffic from myspace will continue for atleast a couple weeks and I will keep a link to the site at profilemods.com for another month.

If you can pay via Bank Wire Transfer, Check, Money Order, or WesternUnion I will accept your offer and can end the auction now. Are you able to pay with any of these methods because paypal has very high fees to sellers.



I am afraid I can only pay through PayPal, directly from account (not credit card). Dont you have "Personal" account in paypal? They do not charge you the "premier" or "business" accounts fee for the "personal", thought it cant accept credit card payments.

So, If I understood you well, in about 1 month, the traffic will decrease unless I promote the site myself. Is that correct?

Also, I noticed that the source for 10,000 of the 12,000 uniques the site received in july (actually in a couple of days) is unknown. Any idea where those visits came from? The CTR is only 1% so could it be bot traffic?



I have no idea where the traffic came from. Yes in about a month or around there the traffic should start decreasing if you do not promote the website.

I recommend if you buy that you start promoting and geting links to it. You could make a lot of money from the site! Other ideas I had are adding a text message service to the site or another feature.

Okay, I can accept Paypal.

Do we have a deal? If so, please make a Bid and I will close the auction.



Thanks for your trustable comments. The traffic thing makes me think about it twice, because I am leaving on holidays and I cant work on this for a month or so. How much did you spend on promotion?



I spent $50 on promotion. As I stated, I will leave the links up and will pay for another month of promotion. I will even pay for an extra month of advertising.

While you are on vacation I will make sure the ads are up and the site is growing. Does that work for you?

Awaiting your reply.



Ok. I will need you to provide me the written permission from CDYNE you have. Also, if you have any special relationship with them maybe you should notify them about the owner change.

Finally, I would thank some instructions on the promotion you will keep for august, so I can go on with it when I come back in september.

What is your paypal address? Where is the name registered?



My paypal is xxxxxxxxx

Give me your email and I will send you proof from Cdyne.

I will also type up email instructions on how to promote the site and make it good and I will also let you know in detail how I promoted it.

Please send the payment to xxxxxxx and make a bid on the auction so I can close it.