discuss Backorder companies are catching everything

[Isac]

Initially i thought Drop catching companies only try to catch domain which are popular and ordered by customers.But now i see they are catching everything Excellent, good and average and then these domains are bought by a company Huge domains. from drop catch discount auction.

What's your opinion about it. How to tackle this ?

 

[Name Trader]

It's a rigged system.

 

[Asfas1000]

The $59 option is not a panacea either.

First, the domain may not be worth as much.

Second, if it is, a mysterious bid can always appear to drive it to an open auction, so that you don't get a worthy domain for just $59.

 

[davidc1]

they speak about priority in their tos but not that hd can see discount orders.

 

[Andrew Knox]

The public auctions are annoying with Dropcatch but not as annoying as not backordering and then seeing the caught by Dropcatch page the next day.

 

[Name Trader]

Here's a tip for everyone using DropCatch's discounted backordering service. DON'T DO IT! Have you read their ToS? It allows Huge Domains to look at all the discounted backordered domains and for them to place a full priced backorder for the domain, or to just outbid you in any ensuing auction.

The only way to ensure privacy of your backorder is with a full priced backorder.

I don't know if anybody noticed the (un)deliberate mistake in this post. But according to DROPCATCH ToS, Huge Domains only need to bid the bare minimum to bid against Discount Club Backorder, and they have preference over all and every Discount Club Backorder, irrespective of any price bid under the Discount Club bids. They don't need to beat any higher bids to the domain. They have automatic preference and win the domain outright.

That doesn't smack of fairness to other DropCatch Discount Club Backorders on that domain. Because if it was fair, they would have to admit they have knowledge the price before placing their bid. So they could bid higher. Instead. They just sweepingly say, HD have preference on any Discount Club backorders they place. And it's just hard luck on any other bidders. Grossly unfair. Because they have prior knowledge of all domains with Discount Club Backorders. AND they are not bidding against anyone else. Like every other Discount Club Baclorder has too.This is worst example of DAYLIGHT ROBBERY I've ever encountered in my 14 years or so of Domaining.

 

[Arca]

I don't know if anybody noticed the (un)deliberate mistake in this post. But according to DROPCATCH ToS, Huge Domains only need to bid the bare minimum to bid against Discount Club Backorder, and they have preference over all and every Discount Club Backorder, irrespective of any price bid under the Discount Club bids. They don't need to beat any higher bids to the domain. They have automatic preference and win the domain outright.

That doesn't smack of fairness to other DropCatch Discount Club Backorders on that domain. Because if it was fair, they would have to admit they have knowledge the price before placing their bid. So they could bid higher. Instead. They just sweepingly say, HD have preference on any Discount Club backorders they place. And it's just hard luck on any other bidders. Grossly unfair. Because they have prior knowledge of all domains with Discount Club Backorders. AND they are not bidding against anyone else. Like every other Discount Club Baclorder has too.This is worst example of DAYLIGHT ROBBERY I've ever encountered in my 14 years or so of Domaining.

But DropCatch/HugeDomains are the same company. So even if they stated that HugeDomains had to bid higher than your discount backorder to trump it, that would merely be a symbolic gesture anyway. HugeDomains “paying” any sum for names caught at DropCatch would be akin to taking money out of your left pocket and putting it into your right pocket, as they are the same company, so a backorder at any level doesn't really "cost" them anything in the retail sense of the backorder fee that we as customer pay.

 

[DomainVP]

HD targets specific keywords and will take just about anything with any search volume... even if it has 10 searches a month.

If it's a FirstName+LastName... HD will snatch it up.
Trademark infringing... HD will snatch it up.
+35 characters, no problem... HD will snatch it up.

What do they care, they pay pennies for domains. Through various agreements and a little razzle-dazzle relationship with DropCatch.com and you have the black hole of domain services.

They do the same thing we all do, just on a larger scale with much better deals.

Think of this though; to get a good name through DropCatch you might have to spend $200 - $350 do to so. While most people complain about it you should really stop and think for a second. What is our total cost of ownership?

A great domain selling at auction for $300 - $500 with minimal associated costs is a steal!
Did you have to become a registrar? No.
Did you have to market yourself to other customers? No.
Do you have employees? No.
Did you have to do absolutely anything besides find the name and place a bid? No.

HD/DC has to buy so many domains to even come close to justifying the operation. Are they making a boatload of money, sure. However they are spending a boatload of money as well.

As resellers we charge others thousands to acquire domains from our hands, whom are we to judge their process just because it makes it 'harder' to get good names for cheap.

Adapt or die. Be smarter with your purchases, get clever with your acquisitions, and do stronger research.

Cheers.

 

[Arca]

Increased competition/prices is one thing. But competing directly against the same people you sell your service to is a business decision that hopefully will come to have some consequences. It does seem to reflect a certain disregard for your own paying customers, that helped make possible DropCatch’s dominance with their ongoing purchases there over several years, to start to increasingly use that money to compete against their own customers. The money customers spend at DropCatch is used to compete against the same customers at GoDaddy auctions. And they compete with their own customers on the drop too, by taking seemingly all won discount backorder domains for themselves. I strongly believe users want to work with a company that supports the growth of their customers, rather than focus on competing against them, like DropCatch(/HugeDomains) is currently doing.

They have made this business decision. I hope that selling to, and a the same time competing with, your own customers will prove to be an unsustainable and unwise strategy in the long term.

 

[Name Trader]

Don't get me wrong. I have huge respect for what HD/DC have achieved. They thought up the idea that by investing in registrars and improve their capturing technologies, they could push out the existing drop-catcher registrars and monopolize the space of drop-catching. It takes a lot of money to buy and run, what is it now, 1600 registrars? All competing for a sliver of a time slot connecting to the Registry to register a domain which dropped. Which they have done with aplomb. In the beginning DC only worked for HD and nobody else. Then DC expanded and offered their services to others. We should be grateful for DC allowing that. DC have now grown so big with this strategy, that if you really want a domain on the drop, you have to include DC in your capture strategy because they capture approx 75% of .com's dropped,and captured (because of their size). They deserve the fruits of their labor with all the hard work and investments in registrars, infrastructure, technnology, and software. I truly take my hat off to their achievements. They won in a Free Market.

But like most near monopolies comes abuse of power. In my last post I was merely correcting a statement from my previous post. Whilst doing that, I realized that if HD bid on a Discount Club Backorder they are automatically given the domain by DC irrespective of whether there are 1 or 100 people also had higher Discount Club Backorders on that domain. Because DC ToS says if HD bid, even the lowest price of $16, they are awarded the domain, by RIGHT. It says it right there in their ToS. HD have knowledge of all these Discount Club Backorders, whereas nobody else can see. This smells like Anti-Trust activity to me. Which I'm not sure their carefully worded ToS would support them. As I said in my last post. This is worst example of DAYLIGHT ROBBERY I've ever encountered in my 14 years or so of Domaining.

Let me say it again. If you use a Discount Club Backorder at DC, you are informing HD of that fact that there is at least 1 buyer for this domain, and HD can take it from you for a $16 bid. Who knows how many Discount Club Backorders one domain might get? Only DC/HD knows. Personally. I think HD should be banned from bidding on Discount Club Backorders. DC/HD are abusing their monopolistic positions. You will only win the domain with a Discount Club Backorder if HD in their wisdom don't want the domain.You are playing with a crooked deck of cards.

 

[Andrew Knox]

@stub Wow you're right. It is very clear in Dropcatch's ToS, " If you want a domain, be sure to place a Full Priced backorder". It is similar to Amazon undercutting third party/Marketplace merchants, supermarkets creating white label/generic knock offs of popular brands, etc. As they say, don't hate the player

It would be good if Snapnames launched a discount service along with their full priced.

 

[Name Trader]

If not Anti-Trust then it's probably Insider Trading.

 

[anantj]

Note particularly 2.3. DropCatch are aware of all backorders in their system. Which mean Huge Domains also have access to these Discount Club Backorders

As much as it appears to be true, that's a huge leap you're taking. With what actual source are you stating this claim (and not as a conjecture?). NO where does the ToS state that HD knows what backorders are placed on DC. Or wouldn't they scoop up almost all discount backorders? I've actually won a few decent names using the Discount backorder.

I am not supporting nor do I like HD but your statements have no basis in fact as of right now. Present with evidence to back up your claims

 

[anantj]

If not Anti-Trust then it's probably Insider Trading.

They're not a publicly listed company. What trading are you speaking of?

 

[anantj]

Wow you're right. It is very clear in Dropcatch's ToS, " If you want a domain, be sure to place a Full Priced backorder"

You know, you should read that in the context of backorder prioritization.

 

[Name Trader]

As much as it appears to be true, that's a huge leap you're taking. With what actual source are you stating this claim (and not as a conjecture?). NO where does the ToS state that HD knows what backorders are placed on DC. Or wouldn't they scoop up almost all discount backorders? I've actually won a few decent names using the Discount backorder.

I am not supporting nor do I like HD but your statements have no basis in fact as of right now. Present with evidence to back up your claims

DC refers to HD as a Corporate Partner. I don't think it's a long stretch at all that DC provide access to all the Discount Club Backorders. After all. They are Corporate Partners. Their ToS doesn't explain what the Corporate Partners can see, or not see. But it is only a short stretch to think they have full access to every BackOrder on DC. That's what Corporate Partners do. Share information. They also don't define what a Corporate Partner is in their Glossary. Which means they could be doing absolutely everything or nothing at all. But I would err on the side of caution here. Where nothing is usually spelled out definitively it more often than not means there is something "shady" going on. This is my proposition. DC are welcome to come here and tell us truely what information is shared with HD, and debunk it.

 

[Name Trader]

They're not a publicly listed company. What trading are you speaking of?

I'm not a legal beaver, which is why I'm struggling to find the exact terms to use. I'm talking about the fact that HD have information from DC which the public cannot see, which may cause them to bid or not bid on a domain with any number of Discount Club Backorders on it..Thereby winning the domain over all members who had Discount Club Backorders on that domain. You don't think that's actually going on. Sorry. But I do.

 

[Kate]

They're not a publicly listed company. What trading are you speaking of?

I think this is the definition of insider trading. Not only taking advantage of privileged information but also playing against their clients. Huge conflict of interest at the very least. If DC was a bank, the SEC would have raided them and placed a restraining order on their activities.
Other industries are regulated to some extent, must abide by a code of conduct, and are subject to audits. The domain name industry on the other hand is the Wild West, registrars are expected to self-regulate and behave like good citizens. It's the fox guarding the henhouse.
Dropcatching and domain auctions are not transparent, not independently audited so it's normal they are viewed with suspicion and not getting the benefit of doubt.
Nothing has changed since the Snapnames fiasco. Auction houses don't seem to have strict operational and ethical standards (see the other thread about Namejet). If there is money at stake, they can close their eyes selectively.

 

[rafaelo0]

Yes congrats on DC for coming up with a strategy that builded them an empire but like @stub says

But like most near monopolies comes abuse of power.

There isn't a better example of abusing power then selling to your customers while also competing against them at the same time, basically it isn't even competing since they get 95% of domains via discount club (the money goes to their pockets so it's basically free for them) i mean this is just bad customers support (like spitting in the customers face).

They could just have the auctions section public without ever participating in the auctions and discount club while still making a incredible amount of money but like many other companies that get to big their greed gets even bigger.

I would say to every domainer just stop using them and maybe you can have their attention but what's the point they have the best backorder technology and the most registrars so you are forced to use them in your backorder strategy they know this so they don't care about their customers and will do whatever they want so they control the market this is my honest opinion.

I usually don't use them even if it cost's me a domain i really want, i know it won't make any difference but i can't just contribute to their greed for money but in the end their the ones laughing.

Like @stub said

This is worst example of DAYLIGHT ROBBERY I've ever encountered

PS: you are also competing against them (HD) on selling domains to, if they buy a premium singular 2 word domain they will probably put it for sale at 2500$ so if you have the plural version even if both are worth much more then 2500$ you will have to market your plural domain much cheaper then 2500$ (in some cases).

 

[Name Trader]

Nothing has changed since the Snapnames fiasco. Auction houses don't seem to have strict operational and ethical standards (see the other thread about Namejet). If there is money at stake, they can close their eyes selectively.

I do believe that DC are more transparent than most drop-catchers. Their ToS does a reasonable job to explain what they are doing and what a customer can expect. But they still leave holes they can drive a bus thru. They probably have a highway full of buses ready to roll out whenever they need them

 

[rafaelo0]

I have to agree with @Kate it's all about ethics and just because one unethical company is a bit more transparent then the other unethical companies doesn't make it ethical (sorry for the word play).

Unless theres some kind of code of conduct and being regulated to some extent the big companies will always control the market IMO...

 

[Name Trader]

There isn't a better example of abusing power then selling to your customers while also competing against them at the same time, basically it isn't even competing since they get 95% of domains via discount club (the money goes to their pockets so it's basically free for them) i mean this is just bad customers support (like spitting in the customers face).

They could just have the auctions section public without ever participating in the auctions and discount club while still making a incredible amount of money but like many other companies that get to big their greed gets even bigger.

The solution is extremely simple. If HD (or any other Corporate Partner) were forbidden to participate in Discount Club Backorders, just like they are forbidden to compete against Regular Backorders. I would have no complaints, unless they were somehow circumventing their own stated positions.

There is only one reason why Discount Club Backorders are treated differently from Regular Backorders. And that is so they can abuse customers who place Discount Club Backorders., if they choose to do so.

 

[rafaelo0]

If HD were forbidden to participate in Discount Club Backorders, just like the are forbidden to compete against Regular Backorders. I would have no complaints, unless they were somehow circumventing their own stated positions.

Yes i and most of their customers (i think) would also have no complaints.

 

[anantj]

DC refers to HD as a Corporate Partner. I don't think it's a long stretch at all that DC provide access to all the Discount Club Backorders. After all. They are Corporate Partners. Their ToS doesn't explain what the Corporate Partners can see, or not see. But it is only a short stretch to think they have full access to every BackOrder on DC. That's what Corporate Partners do. Share information. They also don't define what a Corporate Partner is in their Glossary. Which means they could be doing absolutely everything or nothing at all. But I would err on the side of caution here. Where nothing is usually spelled out definitively it more often than not means there is something "shady" going on. This is my proposition. DC are welcome to come here and tell us truely what information is shared with HD, and debunk it.

Okay, then can you explain why can't DC then handover regular order domains to HD as well? It's not a long stretch and no one would be any wiser if DC did do this! I'd presume that most regular backorders are for domains that are much more valuable than discount club backorders. Doesn't it make more sense for HD to grab those as well?

 

[Asfas1000]

Okay, then can you explain why can't DC then handover regular order domains to HD as well? It's not a long stretch and no one would be any wiser if DC did do this! I'd presume that most regular backorders are for domains that are much more valuable than discount club backorders. Doesn't it make more sense for HD to grab those as well?

Not necessarily. A $59 BO will routinely lead to an auction, if the domain is any good.
They'd rather have a near end-user price from the ensuing auction than the domain.

 

[anantj]

I think this is the definition of insider trading. Not only taking advantage of privileged information but also playing against their clients. Huge conflict of interest at the very least. If DC was a bank, the SEC would have raided them and placed a restraining order on their activities.
Other industries are regulated to some extent, must abide by a code of conduct, and are subject to audits. The domain name industry on the other hand is the Wild West, registrars are expected to self-regulate and behave like good citizens. It's the fox guarding the henhouse.
Dropcatching and domain auctions are not transparent, not independently audited so it's normal they are viewed with suspicion and not getting the benefit of doubt.
Nothing has changed since the Snapnames fiasco. Auction houses don't seem to have strict operational and ethical standards (see the other thread about Namejet). If there is money at stake, they can close their eyes selectively.

I don't deny that DC + HD is potentially unethical. But the keyword is potentially. I'm not a pessimist by nature and don't consider everyone (or most people) as unethical and/or cheaters by default. As I mentioned previously, I do not know if DC is sharing information with HD (or they aren't). But either way, I'm pretty sure nor does anyone else on this thread either. Casting wild speculation and conspiracy theories are fun to read (I love good crispy popcorn) but unless backed by solid evidence, is pure speculation and have no factual basis. It's pretty much like saying that the reptilians exist and they are conspiring against humans