poll As a buyer on a scale of 0 to 10 how important is the value assigned by an automated appraisal

[equity78]

Estibot and GoDaddy are the two dominant forces in the automated appraisal space, there are some other players in the game as well. No matter which service is providing the value, how much weight do you give to these services when making a purchase?

 

[Reddstagg]

Joe Nichols said; "Automated appraisals prey on those who haven't yet developed the confidence or experience (or courage) to valuate and market their own names".

Good morning and thank you for your reply.

So basically, you are saying that it is impossible to value a domain name as there are too many un-quantifiable parameters and the aftermarket cannot be regulated.

I don't care what people earn by the way and as we are individuals rather than teams or corporations I cannot comment on other situations. Any athlete, footballer or popstar has paid their dues over the years and deserve their payday. Their chosen fields are heavily regulated too.

I look more to the motor insurance industry where there too there are many un-quantifiable parameters at play. The only difference between the two industries is they have top level Actuarial teams who have quantified everything and from those calculations they are able to determine values, costs and everything in between and this is why we are able to get comparable quotes for motor insurance.

The seemingly impossible was made possible by getting the best people for the job, allocating a sufficient budget and by introducing regulation.

It can and should be done , it's just that as an industry we choose not to and pore scorn on any system which attempts to do so without suggesting a better alternative.

My question is this. Why aren't we as an industry crying out for regulation as in the long run it can help all of us?

We call ourselves professional, business people and yet we want to ride around like it is the Wild West.

Every other type of commodity is regulated and has benchmark figures for buying and trading so it is not too far a stretch of the imagination to assume that the same cannot be done for domain investing.

Maybe those who are so against the idea are the ones who have the most to lose or hide. Maybe they will not be able to continue to act in a regulated industry.

I see it as a good idea and I think that it will make the industry more professional, more controlled and more transparent.

Only time will tell, but it is coming and I for one have no reason to not embrace it as I have everything to gain and nothing to hide.

Again, I think we shall just have to agree to disagree.

Regards,

Reddstagg

Redd....you have articulated well just how screwed up this industry is, and change is coming. Verisign, the authoritative registry for the likes of the .com and .net extensions called out domainers for being scalpers and hoarders about 18 months ago.

It's pretty ironic in that every .com domain sold comes through Verisign who is an American public company located in Reston, Virginia.

Anyway Redd....you and I are considered domain rebels despite being newbies. Keep up the good work my friend from across the pond....our side is gaining

Good afternoon from t'other side of the pond.

I just got sick and tired of comparing my (crap apparently) domain names with those that are owned by everyone else and realizing that on the whole most of them were not much better than mine. Then there is the ridiculous pricing strategy that seems to exist un-checked by anybody.

This really is like the WWW...Wild Wild West. I'm not taken seriously as I am inexperienced and haven't made any sales yet so why should anyone listen to my side of the argument.

I'm of the opinion that they don't want to change the status quo so I think I will just go on doing what I'm doing and let them get on with it. You are not allowed to have a different opinion....know your place boy.

Only time will tell I guess.

Keep fighting the good fight and if they tell you it is day time go outside and check for yourself.

It keeps me off the streets I guess.

Take care and good luck.

Regards,

Reddstagg

 

[BrandAptly.com]

My uncle often said that you can't fetch water from a dry well...but when the well is full, use an irrigation pump. The algorithm that drives my personal appraisal tool is how deep my prospect's pocket is, what I perceive his character to be and how tightly I have his gonads in a vise.

I sold a domain to a lovely old lady, which had a Godaddy appraisal value of $950, for $550. If she had asked, I would have sold it to her for much less to make up for all the pet grooming discounts she's given Maverick (my dog).

In another development, I am in the middle of a negotiation right now for a domain I paid $10 for a month ago. The Godaddy appraisal value is $1,067. My asking price is $150k. Yes, it is insane and will probably be considered unethical by some. But that is how I feel about the $62k he spent on 2 Hermes purses (probably made in a sweat shop somewhere by malnourished underage kids) for his mistress. The domain is the exact match of his parent company. His DBA is trademarked, but not the parent company. Why he left the company domain on the table beats me. Why someone also dropped that domain also puzzles me. His last offer was $80k. I won't take anything less than $120k because I can get it either from him or one of his competitors. That is the value my personal appraisal tool has assigned. He should be thankful I gave him the first right of refusal. The breakdown of my pricing: $20 for the domain name: $119,980 for my street-smarts. The education cost me a fortune. What's the point if it doesn't earn me a good living, right?

Based on his last offer, reliance on any appraisal bot will leave almost $79k plus on the table.

A bottle of Paco Rabanne cost $29.99 at Burlington. The same cologne in the same size sells for $80 at Macy's. Guess what appraisal tool was used by the latter in arriving at their price? The 'emotional-bot'...the very tool that gives Louis Vuitton justification to sell purses at $8k for the very same quality purse that Brahmin prices at $250. Bulova watches sell for $70 at TJ Maxx, while Movado watches sell for as much as $4k. They are both made by the same company using the same mechanical components. One word: BRANDING. This is the very business we as domainers are all a part off. How can you effectively use a bot to appraise a brand?

When you take into careful consideration the fact that 80% of all medical conditions are lifestyle related, you realize that doctors prey on the irresponsibility of the masses. The appraisal tool they rely on to set their prices for services is called the 'fear-bot'.

Doctor:
"Hey Mr. Ignorant, you have ulcerative colitis. If I don't go inside you, take out your entire colon and fit you with a colonoscopy bag so you walk around for the rest of your life perpetually smelling like crap, you are going to get stage 4 colon cancer by the time you are 30 years old."
Me:
"Thank you doc, but I will take my chances"

The diagnosis was given to me when I was 22. With some major lifestyle and dietary changes, I am now 47 years old with my colon intact, no colon cancer and extremely mild and rare symptoms of ulcerative colitis. I was one of the few exceptions to the rule. His fear-bot works on most of his patients. Doctors are allowed to 'practice' medicine on patients for their entire career when everyone else has to be a professional at what they do. Why are domainers the vultures with a bad reputation?

I have paid a premium for my street doctorate degree and I am not about to let some bot dictate what my return on investment should be. I sell dreams and ideas fueled by any human emotions I can leverage. Just like Saks does with their cheaply made cotton T-shirts, it's $20 for the hand regged domain and $4k for the overpriced cyber AC your wide nostrils are inhaling in my online luxury boutique. And while you are at it, don't forget to write me a stellar testimonial professing your unbridled loyalty...appraisal bots and all.

 

[Reddstagg]

My uncle often said that you can't fetch water from a dry well...but when the well is full, use an irrigation pump. The algorithm that drives my personal appraisal tool is how deep my prospect's pocket is, what I perceive his character to be and how tightly I have his gonads in a vise.

I sold a domain to a lovely old lady, which had a Godaddy appraisal value of $950, for $550. If she had asked, I would have sold it to her for much less to make up for all the pet grooming discounts she's given Maverick (my dog).

In another development, I am in the middle of a negotiation right now for a domain I paid $10 for a month ago. The Godaddy appraisal value is $1,067. My asking price is $150k. Yes, it is insane and will probably be considered unethical by some. But that is how I feel about the $62k he spent on 2 Hermes purses (probably made in a sweat shop somewhere by malnourished underage kids) for his mistress. The domain is the exact match of his parent company. His DBA is trademarked, but not the parent company. Why he left the company domain on the table beats me. Why someone also dropped that domain also puzzles me. His last offer was $80k. I won't take anything less than $120k because I can get it either from him or one of his competitors. That is the value my personal appraisal tool has assigned. He should be thankful I gave him the first right of refusal. The breakdown of my pricing: $20 for the domain name: $119,980 for my street-smarts. The education cost me a fortune. What's the point if it doesn't earn me a good living, right?

Based on his last offer, reliance on any appraisal bot will leave almost $79k plus on the table.

A bottle of Paco Rabanne cost $29.99 at Burlington. The same cologne in the same size sells for $80 at Macy's. Guess what appraisal tool was used by the latter in arriving at their price? The 'emotional-bot'...the very tool that gives Louis Vuitton justification to sell purses at $8k for the very same quality purse that Brahmin prices at $250. Bulova watches sell for $70 at TJ Maxx, while Movado watches sell for as much as $4k. They are both made by the same company using the same mechanical components. One word: BRANDING. This is the very business we as domainers are all a part off. How can you effectively use a bot to appraise a brand?

When you take into careful consideration the fact that 80% of all medical conditions are lifestyle related, you realize that doctors prey on the irresponsibility of the masses. The appraisal tool they rely on to set their prices for services is called the 'fear-bot'.

Doctor:
"Hey Mr. Ignorant, you have ulcerative colitis. If I don't go inside you, take out your entire colon and fit you with a colonoscopy bag so you walk around for the rest of your life perpetually smelling like crap, you are going to get stage 4 colon cancer by the time you are 30 years old."
Me:
"Thank you doc, but I will take my chances"

The diagnosis was given to me when I was 22. With some major lifestyle and dietary changes, I am now 47 years old with my colon intact, no colon cancer and extremely mild and rare symptoms of ulcerative colitis. I was one of the few exceptions to the rule. His fear-bot works on most of his patients. Doctors are allowed to 'practice' medicine on patients for their entire career when everyone else has to be a professional at what they do. Why are domainers the vultures with a bad reputation?

I have paid a premium for my street doctorate degree and I am not about to let some bot dictate what my return on investment should be. I sell dreams and ideas fueled by any human emotions I can leverage. Just like Saks does with their cheaply made cotton T-shirts, it's $20 for the hand regged domain and $4k for the overpriced cyber AC your wide nostrils are inhaling in my online luxury boutique. And while you are at it, don't forget to write me a stellar testimonial professing your unbridled loyalty...appraisal bots and all.

Good evening.

Firstly, I'm glad that you are keeping well.

I thought I waffled a lot. Cutting through all your flannel I hate to say it but I just don't believe you. If you had an offer for $80k you wouldn't be on here basically trashing your sugar daddy. There is no way on this earth that anyone would turn down this amount of money hoping on a wing and a prayer that they were going to get another $40k and managing at the same time to open the door marked 'Stupid' by insinuating that a perceived respectable businessman has a mistress and that he has spend thousands of dollars on her buying purses. That is a dangerous line to cross.

I await your triumphant announcement on this forum with proof in the not too distant future. I think I may be waiting a long time.

Brandaptly is unprofessional.....don't be like Brandaptly

Regards,

Reddstagg

 

[Joe N]

Now, let's take a random sample of a domain name which proves why people do not advocate for the use of automated domain appraisal tool. Let's see.... 'Twiddl(.com). You may recognize it. It is a name listed at Brandpa and registered at GD. It is for sale for $2995. Quite expensive for a six figure mis-spelling. It is appraised by Estibot for $240 and GD has it for less than $100. It is no wonder you are not a big fan of auto appraisal tools.

Indeed most of my sales have been for amounts that are above automated appraisal values. Experience has taught me to put little stock into them.

So your experience in the industry has taught you that six-letter brand names of this variety do not typically sell for $3,000?

Just because I have been a domain investor for just over a year does not make me inexperienced in life and maybe you should get down from your ivory tower and credit me with some level of intelligence and accept that maybe someone who doesn't share your own opinion might have some validity.

Of course you're intelligent and have life experience. And I accept that your opinion has validity.

Can you accept that, with only a year of experience and no sales, your opinion on how to value domain names is not as informed as it could be?

The only reason that I am not yet successful by your definition is that I haven't really tried to sell any of my domain names as I don't need to at this moment in time. However, it is my intention to sell a few at some point but I guess it all depends on how desperate I become.

Would you consider me a successful car salesman if I haven't sold any cars? Would you value my advice on how to appraise and sell them?

 

[Reddstagg]

Indeed most of my sales have been for amounts that are above automated appraisal values. Experience has taught me to put little stock into them.

Statistical analysis can only be truly understood when put into context. I discovered this week that 4L domain names were being sold for $5k back in 2013 and many of them are lucky to break through figures today. Obviously there will always be those that are more expensive than others as they actually make sense.

So your experience in the industry has taught you that six-letter brand names of this variety do not typically sell for $3,000?

I hope they do, 'cos sure as heck I'm a millionaire then 'cos of what I have up my sleeve. No, is the answer but it is based on feedback that I have received over the past year from several experienced respectable domainers who have shared their opinions when I have registered similar names.

Of course you're intelligent and have life experience. And I accept that your opinion has validity.

You have to listen to both sides of the story before making your own decisions and my take is that this business needs to clean house now whilst we can or it will be cleaned for us and we may not like the results. You may not agree with my opinion but at least be open to listening to it is all I ask from everyone.

Can you accept that, with only a year of experience and no sales, your opinion on how to value domain names is not as informed as it could be?

I'd have to disagree with you here. The decision to not try to actively sell my domains is part of my structured plan. In the mean time I've engaged with the community and I've read many of the original forum discussions and I believe that they can be a great source of information that is still relevant in today's market. I like everything to have a place and for everything to be in it's place. I'm someone who has actually read the 27 pages of small print attached to my holiday insurance. I'm from a Compliance and Regulatory background so this is my leaning towards domain investing. I always tell people that I am a Domain Investor as I a proud of our industry although it can and should be improved.

Would you consider me a successful car salesman if I haven't sold any cars? Would you value my advice on how to appraise and sell them?

I've never been James Bond, 007 nor have I ever driven a Jaguar or an Aston Martin. However, I do know that the the Jaguar used in one of the films was sold for $1million and that the Aston Martin from an earlier film was sold for $3million. Conversely, although I have sold maybe 30 cars during my 35 years of driving I have never sold a Jaguar or an Aston Martin. Selling a car is clearly very different from knowing how much cars are worth so that doesn't mean that someone who is not old enough to sell cars doesn't know their values.

You'd be surprised what I know about but have never done. Doesn't mean that I cannot learn about them or appraise them successfully.

It always used to bug me when I was younger when buying or selling a car as the dealers had a black book which gave the car trade a guide price for buying or selling a car. The values were always higher when I was buying a car and lower when I was selling a car. They held all the cards, until someone invented Autotrader and the cat was out of the bag.

That's it for now so I hope we can now put this to bed and move on.

Regards,

Reddstagg

 

[Joe N]

I discovered this week that 4L domain names were being sold for $5k back in 2013 and many of them are lucky to break through figures today.

Not all 4L names are created equal. Some of them deserve five figures and more. Some I wouldn't pay $100 for. They are a market within a market. It's important to understand it fully before investing in 4L names.

No, is the answer but it is based on feedback that I have received over the past year from several experienced respectable domainers who have shared their opinions when I have registered similar names.

Feel free to ask them about Twiddl. Just like with 4L names, not all brandable names are created equal. You may think you've registered similar, but you might be wrong.

You have to listen to both sides of the story before making your own decisions

.
Feel free to lead the way in this regard. Tell us what part of the majority argument in this thread has merit.

I'd have to disagree with you here. The decision to not try to actively sell my domains is part of my structured plan.

So as an investor with no sales and one year of experience, you would gauge your experience level as being equal to someone with 5-10 years experience and multiple four-and-five figure sales?

You'd be surprised what I know about but have never done. Doesn't mean that I cannot learn about them or appraise them successfully.[/QUOTE]
Ah, so those who can't do, teach. Fair enough. Maybe actual experience is over-rated? You could revolutionize domain sales without ever making one!

 

[BrandAptly.com]

Good evening.

Firstly, I'm glad that you are keeping well.

I thought I waffled a lot. Cutting through all your flannel I hate to say it but I just don't believe you. If you had an offer for $80k you wouldn't be on here basically trashing your sugar daddy. There is no way on this earth that anyone would turn down this amount of money hoping on a wing and a prayer that they were going to get another $40k and managing at the same time to open the door marked 'Stupid' by insinuating that a perceived respectable businessman has a mistress and that he has spend thousands of dollars on her buying purses. That is a dangerous line to cross.

I await your triumphant announcement on this forum with proof in the not too distant future. I think I may be waiting a long time.

Brandaptly is unprofessional.....don't be like Brandaptly

Regards,

Reddstagg

Fortunately for me, my success in my endeavors isn't hinged on what you believe. Clearly, you and I view the world through VERY different lenses. It will explain the difference in the results we are experiencing. I see where your head is at. I will not let you drag me down there with you. Peace.

 

[ThatNameGuy]

Estibot and Go Daddyare the two dominant forces in the automated appraisal space, there are some other players in the game as well. No matter which service is providing the value, how much weight do you give to these services when making a purchase?

Raymond...i already responded once saying that a combination of 3-5 services help me to determine whether or not to buy a domain. Generally I use the following;

1. Go Daddy
2. Estibot/Epik - they are obviously one and the same
3. Free Valuator
4. Nameworth

As others have mentioned, if I were to have to use one it would be Go Daddy because of all the add on's. Even if they didn't provide an appraisal/valuation their "Comparable Domains Sold" feature is worth the price of admission In addition they provide "keyword" analysis and values for keywords.

With regards to Estibot/Epik - to show how pathetic they are, look no further than your list of Sedo sales for this week; Gigafi.com sold for $5,000 and Estibot appraised it at $120, onlyfns.com sold for $2,999 and Estibot appraised it at "0" and bediet.com sold for $2,500 and Estibot appraised it for $260.

What the heck is bediet.com anyway? i own H2ODiet.com and Estibot appraises it for $10
Bottomline, Go Daddy is pretty good and everyone should at least check it out before buying or selling domains.

 

[DaveTw]

I totally agree with domainers that don't follow appraisal tools.

However - I'd give the appraisal tools a bonus about the EMDs (not the GD one).

I've seen several videos of Andre Rosener and Chris Zuiker explaining how the right keyword increases the volume of customers and at the same time the value of domain itself. And the rule along which they calculate the value of such domain (keyword search amount times commercial cost times ninety % and so on). It was a simple mathematical appraisal. I've tried playing myself with an EMD website, it's working the way those folks said.

That's actually some advantage of Estibot and similar tools. Even if customers don't know, neither understand it - it could be a fantastic selling argument to show them such and explain how it works.

No use of appraisal tools for brandables I'd say.

Important to mention - I don't sell domains, so it's just a rookie's opinion.

 

[BrandAptly.com]

Raymond...i already responded once saying that a combination of 3-5 services help me to determine whether or not to buy a domain. Generally I use the following;

1. Go Daddy
2. Estibot/Epik - they are obviously one and the same
3. Free Valuator
4. Nameworth

As others have mentioned, if I were to have to use one it would be Go Daddy because of all the add on's. Even if they didn't provide an appraisal/valuation their "Comparable Domains Sold" feature is worth the price of admission In addition they provide "keyword" analysis and values for keywords.

With regards to Estibot/Epik - to show how pathetic they are, look no further than your list of Sedo sales for this week; Gigafi.com sold for $5,000 and Estibot appraised it at $120, onlyfns.com sold for $2,999 and Estibot appraised it at "0" and bediet.com sold for $2,500 and Estibot appraised it for $260.

What the heck is bediet.com anyway? i own H2ODiet.com and Estibot appraises it for $10
Bottomline, Go Daddy is pretty good and everyone should at least check it out before buying or selling domains.

I purchased a domain name about 5 days ago which formerly belonged to a law firm that folded after 15 years of business (according to info on archive.org). It's a rather obscure lastname+firm.com...10 letters total. I did a 301 redirect to test the traffic. Here are the specifics:

• Godaddy appraisal $1,238
• Listed in the legal section of 400 plus reputable business directories with several good reviews
• Has 4.5 plus star reviews on Yelp, TrustPilot and Google
• Gets an average of 150 visitors a day (estimate 55k/year) from click through and type-in
• Comparable sales on Namebio for domains ending in 'firm' range from $233k to $100
• Total number of attorneys in their home state that I can pitch it to: 32k

In this particular scenario, I'm not just selling a domain name. I am selling the promise of premium targeted traffic resulting from the marketing of a very reputable law firm with a stellar track record. The buyer of the domain simply has to do a 301 redirect to their website and they get 55k prospects a year.

Based on the information above, how do I rely on data from any bots you've mentioned to price this domain name? You really want to tell me that 55k/year premium target prospects generated from the solid marketing of a reputable law firm over a period of 15 years is only worth $1,238?

 

[Joe N]

I purchased a domain name about 5 days ago which formerly belonged to a law firm that folded after 15 years of business (according to info on archive.org). It's a rather obscure lastname+firm.com...10 letters total. I did a 301 redirect to test the traffic. Here are the specifics:

• Godaddy appraisal $1,238
• Listed in the legal section of 400 plus reputable business directories with several good reviews
• Has 4.5 plus star reviews on Yelp, TrustPilot and Google
• Gets an average of 150 visitors a day (estimate 55k/year) from click through and type-in
• Comparable sales on Namebio for domains ending in 'firm' range from $233k to $100
• Total number of attorneys in their home state that I can pitch it to: 32k

In this particular scenario, I'm not just selling a domain name. I am selling the promise of premium targeted traffic resulting from the marketing of a very reputable law firm with a stellar track record. The buyer of the domain simply has to do a 301 redirect to their website and they get 55k prospects a year.

Based on the information above, how do I rely on data from any bots you've mentioned to price this domain name? You really want to tell me that 55k/year premium target prospects generated from the solid marketing of a reputable law firm over a period of 15 years is only worth $1,238?

I've never tried selling a name by quoting traffic stats. Does it actually work?

I actually wouldn't expect to be able to sell that one for much more than one or two thousand, even after quoting the stats to prospective buyers. Clearly I have a lot to learn about this method.

Would you be able to share details if/when you sell this one? I'd be curious to hear the sales pitch, response, and final sales price.

 

[BrandAptly.com]

I've never tried selling a name by quoting traffic stats. Does it actually work?

I actually wouldn't expect to be able to sell that one for much more than one or two thousand, even after quoting the stats to prospective buyers. Clearly I have a lot to learn about this method.

Would you be able to share details if/when you sell this one? I'd be curious to hear the sales pitch, response, and final sales price.

Most of my sales have come from traffic generating domains. Before this entire crisis peaked, I was moving an average of 5 of them a month at prices ranging from $1k - $2k. They had much less traffic coming from the better variations of their original domain names. Their traffic was being leaked from their own domain names. If they refused to buy it, I sold it to their competitors. Mind you, I have only been domaining since September of last year...part time.

Business owners know how much advertising costs and the type of leads that result from them. If you present the numbers in a fashion that makes sense, you will get the sale. It requires outbound marketing but the sales can be fast. I've sold domains in as fast as 4 days with the right pitch. A lot of these domains will be dismissed by most veteran domainers.

A Chrysler 300 is an ordinary car until you put it next to a beat-up Geo Prism...then it begins to look like a Bentley.

Let's look at these numbers for instance: a good targeted opt-in email list will cost you about $600 per 1k emails. Don't take my word for it. Just shop around. So you will be paying $33k for 55k COLD emails. Then you will have to pay a professional to create your marketing materials and send it out. About 80% of that will reach their inbox if they know what they are doing and maybe 20% might save your info to use in the future.

What I am offering you is 55k unique leads per year who are actively shopping for an attorney. They are being referred to your business by a reputable law firm with a stellar track record. Psychologically, your prospects will project the reputation of the former law firm on you.

Which of the two scenarios is more attractive? The choice is a no-brainer. I will be shooting myself in the foot if I attempt to price this domain. I will just write a sales copy comparing costs of all the alternatives and start a bidding war to let the market dictate the price. Cost of email marketing, cost of advertising on Facebook, cost of advertising on Twitter, etc.

The opening pitch I am playing around with:
Would you like premium referrals from a very reputable law firm that has a solid track record and a cult following?

I have a bot that crawls the yellow pages to find these gems. Right now, a LOT of businesses are letting their domains 'slip' for obvious reasons. I test the domains for 4 days. If it's good, I keep it. If it's not, I get my money back. I know exactly how and where to find my prospects. The key is automation.

The reason most domainers have such low sell-through rates is because the average business owner doesn't understand domains. What they all really understand are leads, clients and customers. You sell them a domain wrapped up in what they understand.

But please, please be careful. You have been cautioned not to be like me. I am 'stupid' and 'unprofessional'.

 

[Joe N]

Most of my sales have come from traffic generating domains. Before this entire crisis peaked, I was moving an average of 5 of them a month at prices ranging from $1k - $2k. They had much less traffic coming from the better variations of their original domain names. Their traffic was being leaked from their own domain names. If they refused to buy it, I sold it to their competitors. Mind you, I have only been domaining since September of last year...part time.

Business owners know how much advertising costs and the type of leads that result from them. If you present the numbers in a fashion that makes sense, you will get the sale. It requires outbound marketing but the sales can be fast. I've sold domains in as fast as 4 days with the right pitch. A lot of these domains will be dismissed by most veteran domainers.

A Chrysler 300 is an ordinary car until you put it next to a beat-up Geo Prism...then it begins to look like a Bentley.

Let's look at these numbers for instance: a good targeted opt-in email list will cost you about $600 per 1k emails. Don't take my word for it. Just shop around. So you will be paying $33k for 55k COLD emails. Then you will have to pay a professional to create your marketing materials and send it out. About 80% of that will reach their inbox if they know what they are doing and maybe 20% might save your info to use in the future.

What I am offering you is 55k unique leads per year who are actively shopping for an attorney. They are being referred to your business by a reputable law firm with a stellar track record. Psychologically, your prospects will project the reputation of the former law firm on you.

Which of the two scenarios is more attractive? The choice is a no-brainer. I will be shooting myself in the foot if I attempt to price this domain. I will just write a sales copy comparing costs of all the alternatives and start a bidding war to let the market dictate the price. Cost of email marketing, cost of advertising on Facebook, cost of advertising on Twitter, etc.

The opening pitch I am playing around with:
Would you like premium referrals from a very reputable law firm that has a solid track record and a cult following?

I have a bot that crawls the yellow pages to find these gems. Right now, a LOT of businesses are letting their domains 'slip' for obvious reasons. I test the domains for 4 days. If it's good, I keep it. If it's not, I get my money back. I know exactly how and where to find my prospects. The key is automation.

The reason most domainers have such low sell-through rates is because the average business owner doesn't understand domains. What they all really understand are leads, clients and customers. You sell them a domain wrapped up in what they understand.

But please, please be careful. You have been cautioned not to be like me. I am 'stupid' and 'unprofessional'.

Thanks for the info. The pitch is a great one, and the reasoning is incredibly sound.

I've done a decent amount of outbound as well, but my emails are usually only a couple lines long: "We're selling XXX domain name. Let's Talk." I'm paraphrasing, of course, but you get the idea.

If my contact understands the value of a relevant domain name, they ask for the price. Otherwise I get a "No thanks" or no reply.

I find your method interesting because, from a personal standpoint, I auto-delete any email that starts with an obvious sales pitch. I don't like being sold something I wasn't already looking for. It turns me right off. So that's why I was hoping you'd be willing to share details of one of these conversations that has led to a sale.

Is it possible you're selling names despite the pitch? Like, perhaps you're just selecting good names and finding relevant buyers, which is great! And if that's the case, perhaps you could be saving a lot of time spent testing traffic, crunching numbers, and drafting informative emails.

 

[BrandAptly.com]

Thanks for the info. The pitch is a great one, and the reasoning is incredibly sound.

I've done a decent amount of outbound as well, but my emails are usually only a couple lines long: "We're selling XXX domain name. Let's Talk." I'm paraphrasing, of course, but you get the idea.

If my contact understands the value of a relevant domain name, they ask for the price. Otherwise I get a "No thanks" or no reply.

I find your method interesting because, from a personal standpoint, I auto-delete any email that starts with an obvious sales pitch. I don't like being sold something I wasn't already looking for. It turns me right off. So that's why I was hoping you'd be willing to share details of one of these conversations that has led to a sale.

Is it possible you're selling names despite the pitch? Like, perhaps you're just selecting good names and finding relevant buyers, which is great! And if that's the case, perhaps you could be saving a lot of time spent testing traffic, crunching numbers, and drafting informative emails.

My names are good only because of the buyers' specific needs and circumstances but not by domain industry standards. Cars.com is great domain name by all standards of measurement. All the owner has to do is list it for sale with NO sales pitch or explanation whatsoever. On my end of the spectrum, the domains I sell are completely useless without my pitch and numbers.

If you get 2 pieces of mail, one delivered in an ordinary envelope and the other delivered by FedFex Priority mail marked urgent and confidential, which one will you open first? The way you respond to email has everything to do with the authority of the delivery service and your confidence in it. You open the newsletters from Namepros, yes? So if I want to inform you about a domaining service I am offering, I will do it through Namepros.

I have been experimenting with marketing in startup business forums and industry specific forums and getting good responses. Of course, the current state of affairs make it a bit tricky to determine effectiveness in dollars and cents.

With this particular domain, I will send the pitch out through a law forum newsletter. I will include an email address that generates an auto-response with my entire sales pitch. At the end of the sales pitch, there will be a link to the offer page. This way, all my emails will reach their inbox and all of them will hopefully be opened. I will accept offers for both purchasing and leasing. If I get to lease it our for $1k a month for 4,500 targeted leads, that is still a very good deal for them. I won't complain about $12k a year. The only thing I am a bit nervous about is the current economic climate.

 

[Joe N]

My names are good only because of the buyers' specific needs and circumstances but not by domain industry standards. Cars.com is great domain name by all standards of measurement. All the owner has to do is list it for sale with NO sales pitch or explanation whatsoever. On my end of the spectrum, the domains I sell are completely useless without my pitch and numbers.

If you get 2 pieces of mail, one delivered in an ordinary envelope and the other delivered by FedFex Priority mail marked urgent and confidential, which one will you open first? The way you respond to email has everything to do with the authority of the delivery service and your confidence in it. You open the newsletters from Namepros, yes? So if I want to inform you about a domaining service I am offering, I will do it through Namepros.

I have been experimenting with marketing in startup business forums and industry specific forums and getting good responses. Of course, the current state of affairs make it a bit tricky to determine effectiveness in dollars and cents.

With this particular domain, I will send the pitch out through a law forum newsletter. I will include an email address that generates an auto-response with my entire sales pitch. At the end of the sales pitch, there will be a link to the offer page. This way, all my emails will reach their inbox and all of them will hopefully be opened. I will accept offers for both purchasing and leasing. If I get to lease it our for $1k a month for 4,500 targeted leads, that is still a very good deal for them. I won't complain about $12k a year. The only thing I am a bit nervous about is the current economic climate.

I like the strategy! Hope you'll let us know how it goes.

 

[Atone]

Indeed most of my sales have been for amounts that are above automated appraisal values. Experience has taught me to put little stock into them.

Statistical analysis can only be truly understood when put into context. I discovered this week that 4L domain names were being sold for $5k back in 2013 and many of them are lucky to break through figures today. Obviously there will always be those that are more expensive than others as they actually make sense.

So your experience in the industry has taught you that six-letter brand names of this variety do not typically sell for $3,000?

I hope they do, 'cos sure as heck I'm a millionaire then 'cos of what I have up my sleeve. No, is the answer but it is based on feedback that I have received over the past year from several experienced respectable domainers who have shared their opinions when I have registered similar names.

Of course you're intelligent and have life experience. And I accept that your opinion has validity.

You have to listen to both sides of the story before making your own decisions and my take is that this business needs to clean house now whilst we can or it will be cleaned for us and we may not like the results. You may not agree with my opinion but at least be open to listening to it is all I ask from everyone.

Can you accept that, with only a year of experience and no sales, your opinion on how to value domain names is not as informed as it could be?

I'd have to disagree with you here. The decision to not try to actively sell my domains is part of my structured plan. In the mean time I've engaged with the community and I've read many of the original forum discussions and I believe that they can be a great source of information that is still relevant in today's market. I like everything to have a place and for everything to be in it's place. I'm someone who has actually read the 27 pages of small print attached to my holiday insurance. I'm from a Compliance and Regulatory background so this is my leaning towards domain investing. I always tell people that I am a Domain Investor as I a proud of our industry although it can and should be improved.

Would you consider me a successful car salesman if I haven't sold any cars? Would you value my advice on how to appraise and sell them?

I've never been James Bond, 007 nor have I ever driven a Jaguar or an Aston Martin. However, I do know that the the Jaguar used in one of the films was sold for $1million and that the Aston Martin from an earlier film was sold for $3million. Conversely, although I have sold maybe 30 cars during my 35 years of driving I have never sold a Jaguar or an Aston Martin. Selling a car is clearly very different from knowing how much cars are worth so that doesn't mean that someone who is not old enough to sell cars doesn't know their values.

You'd be surprised what I know about but have never done. Doesn't mean that I cannot learn about them or appraise them successfully.

It always used to bug me when I was younger when buying or selling a car as the dealers had a black book which gave the car trade a guide price for buying or selling a car. The values were always higher when I was buying a car and lower when I was selling a car. They held all the cards, until someone invented Autotrader and the cat was out of the bag.

That's it for now so I hope we can now put this to bed and move on.

Regards,

Reddstagg

As part of this post I thought I would use a variation of your reddstagg name as a experiment.
RedStagg .com was avail so I regged it.
GD app $1159.
Nameworth app $4450.
Estibot $100 210 exact searches cpc 2.74.
Namebio Red as 1st keyword 827 sales $150 k high price.
last word Stagg 0 sales.
last word Stag 19 sales $10.4 k high price.
RedStagg.com trademark free as far as I could see.
So I swung it over to BrandPa,s appraisal set up they reckon $3995
8 bucks for a Logo design and away we go 12 month experiment.
No hyphen but what the hell.
Cheers.

 

[ThatNameGuy]

I purchased a domain name about 5 days ago which formerly belonged to a law firm that folded after 15 years of business (according to info on archive.org). It's a rather obscure lastname+firm.com...10 letters total. I did a 301 redirect to test the traffic. Here are the specifics:

• Godaddy appraisal $1,238
• Listed in the legal section of 400 plus reputable business directories with several good reviews
• Has 4.5 plus star reviews on Yelp, TrustPilot and Google
• Gets an average of 150 visitors a day (estimate 55k/year) from click through and type-in
• Comparable sales on Namebio for domains ending in 'firm' range from $233k to $100
• Total number of attorneys in their home state that I can pitch it to: 32k

In this particular scenario, I'm not just selling a domain name. I am selling the promise of premium targeted traffic resulting from the marketing of a very reputable law firm with a stellar track record. The buyer of the domain simply has to do a 301 redirect to their website and they get 55k prospects a year.

Based on the information above, how do I rely on data from any bots you've mentioned to price this domain name? You really want to tell me that 55k/year premium target prospects generated from the solid marketing of a reputable law firm over a period of 15 years is only worth $1,238?

Would that be EmoryLegal.com? How would I know that BrandAptly, i think you and I could work well together, especially your thinking on how and who to market the domain to. What's interesting about this is many law firms have names whose partners are all deceased, but they keep the name anyway for obvious reasons. I'm guessing too you're talking about Georgia and I know that Emory University has a law school their. Good Luck, and I really like your style Send me a PM if you're interested

 

[Reddstagg]

As part of this post I thought I would use a variation of your reddstagg name as a experiment.
RedStagg .com was avail so I regged it.
GD app $1159.
Nameworth app $4450.
Estibot $100 210 exact searches cpc 2.74.
Namebio Red as 1st keyword 827 sales $150 k high price.
last word Stagg 0 sales.
last word Stag 19 sales $10.4 k high price.
RedStagg.com trademark free as far as I could see.
So I swung it over to BrandPa,s appraisal set up they reckon $3995
8 bucks for a Logo design and away we go 12 month experiment.
No hyphen but what the hell.
Cheers.

Just to let you know that I reported your post as I am of the opinion that you have acted in an unprofessional manner. The report was declined.

I would like to understand your reasons for registering this domain name. Why would you spend time and money to do this. Just to prove a point? What is you point? What are you trying to achieve?

Am I not allowed to have a differing opinion without being targeted by you when you don't have the courage or balls to have an adult discussion about the issue. Man up and tell me what your problem is so that we can deal with it and move on.

I am the owner of Reddstagg.com and I shall not be very happy if you have ulterior motives for basically acting like an anonymous child just because you can.

Have the decency and professional courtesy to explain your actions.

 

[BrandAptly.com]

Would that be EmoryLegal.com? How would I know that BrandAptly, i think you and I could work well together, especially your thinking on how and who to market the domain to. What's interesting about this is many law firms have names whose partners are all deceased, but they keep the name anyway for obvious reasons. I'm guessing too you're talking about Georgia and I know that Emory University has a law school their. Good Luck, and I really like your style Send me a PM if you're interested

EmoryLegal.com is mine, but was purchased for another experiment that I haven't yet gotten to.

Take a look at this business I scraped up today:
https://www.yellowpages.com/nationw...ice-in-court-attorneys-2701?lid=1001784173629

Their company domain has a whopping 23 characters! tvctruckersvoiceincourt / com
Meanwhile, tvctruckers.com is available for reg fee. They have 17k attorneys in their network handing out business cards with that ridiculous domain name. Assuming it's only 10 visitors a day they are leaking to tvctruckers.com, that is 3,650 leads a year a competitor can be scooping up. Godaddy appraisal is about $600. How do you justify selling 3,650 solid leads a year for $600? Packaged well with the right verbiage, that is a fairly quick $1,500 begging to be taken. It shouldn't take more that 3 hours of actual work to make that money (not counting waiting time between communications). I won't touch this one because they don't have a strong enough social media presence and reviews for me to leverage. I have bigger fish to fry.

This morning, I woke up to about 300 businesses only in the legal section from one state with 20 plus characters in their domains. There are going to be a LOT of bankruptcy filings and lawsuits when this pandemic dies down. This is money just begging to be made. I also got about 50 expired domains of businesses with solid company profiles.

I see domainers with awesome portfolios. I look at some of their domain names and I think "these are very hot domains". Unfortunately, the domains just sit around for a long time just looking pretty because very few prospects understand them.

Walk up to most small business owners and tell them you want to sell them a domain name and the response you will get is "I already have a website", while they hand you a business card with a ridiculous domain. On the other hand, tell them you will give them 1k new customers every month who are ready to buy their service/product and it becomes a completely different conversation. You can't measure this value with any bot.

Let me take my 'stupid' and 'unprofessional' behind back to work. I will touch base with you. I have a 2 year goal to acquire an inventory 10k domains with a sell-through rate of 10% at an average price of $2k a domain. I know it's a 'stupid' expectation...but getting stupidly rich doing the things I love doesn't offend my sensibilities.

I am exploring a technique where I take any hashtag and make it trend on social media using 5k accounts across all the platforms. This way, I won't have to compete with anyone for premium domains in auctions. I will literally be able to manufacture my own premium high traffic domains round the clock and lease them out.

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -Thomas A. Edison

 

[ThatNameGuy]

EmoryLegal.com is mine, but was purchased for another experiment that I haven't yet gotten to.

Take a look at this business I scraped up today:

Their company domain has a whopping 23 characters! tvctruckersvoiceincourt / com
Meanwhile, tvctruckers.com is available for reg fee. They have 17k attorneys in their network handing out business cards with that ridiculous domain name. Assuming it's only 10 visitors a day they are leaking to tvctruckers.com, that is 3,650 leads a year a competitor can be scooping up. Godaddy appraisal is about $600. How do you justify selling 3,650 solid leads a year for $600? Packaged well with the right verbiage, that is a fairly quick $1,500 begging to be taken. It shouldn't take more that 3 hours of actual work to make that money (not counting waiting time between communications). I won't touch this one because they don't have a strong enough social media presence and reviews for me to leverage. I have bigger fish to fry.

This morning, I woke up to about 300 businesses only in the legal section from one state with 20 plus characters in their domains. There are going to be a LOT of bankruptcy filings and lawsuits when this pandemic dies down. This is money just begging to be made. I also got about 50 expired domains of businesses with solid company profiles.

I see domainers with awesome portfolios. I look at some of their domain names and I think "these are very hot domains". Unfortunately, the domains just sit around for a long time just looking pretty because very few prospects understand them.

Walk up to most small business owners and tell them you want to sell them a domain name and the response you will get is "I already have a website", while they hand you a business card with a ridiculous domain. On the other hand, tell them you will give them 1k new customers every month who are ready to buy their service/product and it becomes a completely different conversation. You can't measure this value with any bot.

Let me take my 'stupid' and 'unprofessional' behind back to work. I will touch base with you. I have a 2 year goal to acquire an inventory 10k domains with a sell-through rate of 10% at an average price of $2k a domain. I know it's a 'stupid' expectation...but getting stupidly rich doing the things I love doesn't offend my sensibilities.

I am exploring a technique where I take any hashtag and make it trend on social media using 5k accounts across all the platforms. This way, I won't have to compete with anyone for premium domains in auctions. I will literally be able to manufacture my own premium high traffic domains round the clock and lease them out.

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -Thomas A. Edison

BrandAptly said,
"I see domainers with awesome portfolios. I look at some of their domain names and I think "these are very hot domains". Unfortunately, the domains just sit around for a long time just looking pretty because very few prospects understand them."

Reminds me a lot of the marina down the creek from where I live. There are over 300 yachts in the Marina, and 90% just sit there day in and day out without being used. I've always owned a boat, but even my boats left the dock less than 10% of the time. What's up with that, and I use my boat more than any of my neighbors use theirs.

It really is a shame that domains like boats sit there unused for years on end. Seems like such a waste

 

[Joe N]

It really is a shame that domains like boats sit there unused for years on end. Seems like such a waste

They sit unused because no one needs them. There are almost an endless number of possible domain names that can exist. Why would you expect most of them to be used?

 

[ThatNameGuy]

They sit unused because no one needs them. There are almost an endless number of possible domain names that can exist. Why would you expect most of them to be used?

Case in point....they're being hoarded, but I'm finding ways to catch, register and sell the citations

 

[Joe N]

Case in point....they're being hoarded, but I'm finding ways to catch, register and sell the citations

You didn't actually answer my question.

How can you expect that most domains in existence should be in use?

 

[Reddstagg]

You didn't actually answer my question.

How can you expect that most domains in existence should be in use?

Good morning,

That is a good point.

I would say that there will always be the floating plastic debris of domain names just floating around the world never to be used or re-used.

I have 350 names now so just for an example that means I could have 10% of my names i.e. 35 never being used or developed into functioning websites.

It is probably higher for my names as they are crap, but if we use 10% as a guide that number soon mounts up. There are over 1 million members on NP so that soon becomes 35 million.

Good names may be traded a few times and never be used and before long 10 years go buy and the domain name may have only been owned by 2-3 people in that time.

I wonder if there is anyway to tell if a domain name has never been developed into a blog or a website. The numbers could actually be higher than we imagined.

Something to think about.

 

[Jv1999]

I put 10 lol. Because most end users are buyers, and they usually don't know jack about domaining. They see that very very very, very large GD estimated value and just assume it's correct. I mean, when are estimated values wrong from a mainstream market platform? They just assume it's correct because it would be so legally bad if they're misled -- you wouldn't even consider that it was wrong.

That said, I think the values are also fairly accurate in terms of whether or not a domain is good. For example, you're not going to see bad domains when the estimated GD value is over 2.5k and we're in .com.