interviews $40K Annual Profit from Part-time Brandable Domain Name Investing – With Doron Vermaat

[DomainSherpa]

How does @Doron Vermaat earn $40,000 profit per year while only investing 10 to 15 hours per week? Find out in this interview.

Vermaat shares:

• How he learned to value brandable domain names
• What he does as soon as he purchases a new domain name
• How (and how fast) he responds to inquiries from potential buyers
• Why he ends each email with a question
• How he softly pushes just a little further to increase the sales price

http://www.domainsherpa.com/doron-vermaat-namerockstar/

 

[Michael]

Does Aaron Strong makes more from his domain investments than from NameBio.com, Domain Agents or Whoisology? You tell me. All I now is that they are happily and successfully doing both

It's Adam Strong. Aaron is a guy who comments on blog posts and frequently gets confused with Adam, much to Adam's delight

Nice interview, love what you guys are doing.

 

[Doron Vermaat]

It's Adam Strong. Aaron is a guy who comments on blog posts and frequently gets confused with Adam, much to Adam's delight

Nice interview, love what you guys are doing.

Haha. I stand corrected Michael

 

[Kate]

@Buypolar: Are you saying that I'm the blind, or were you just making a joke?

I think it's humor, so I will give him a like just for that.

I am not here to defend member @Buypolar, nor am I authorized to speak for him but I think he has had a reaction of healthy skepticism. As domainers we always focus on the good news, the sales and the achievements. Losses and bad investments are conveniently forgotten or swept under the rug.

Domaining is a funny industry with lots of posers, and we have seen our share of emperors with no clothes come and go. It's easy to pretend success and build a legend online. After the AD fiasco I guess domainers are less inclined to take everything at face value.
And the blind leading the blind is something that we see frequently along domain fads, new extensions in particular. I can certainly relate to his cartoon

Please don't be offended, I enjoy your shows. They are pleasant to watch and inspirational.
Again, forgive me for playing the devil's advocate, I just can't help it

 

[domeen]

For me its not easy to take serious guys that come together every week, start a skype session and talk about domain prices. Then record it and but it to internet. I mean thats just too funny. You can see that some of them have just got up and they have massive hangover from last nights "domaining".
Once I watched half of this "show" - but its not for me.

I think you most take those shows as entertaiment. Like some comedy series. Then yes its good to watch. Sad is that newbies may take this as real life. Thats a litte sad

 

[DU]

I think it's humor, so I will give him a like just for that.

I am not here to defend member @Buypolar, nor am I authorized to speak for him but I think he has had a reaction of healthy skepticism. As domainers we always focus on the good news, the sales and the achievements. Losses and bad investments are conveniently forgotten or swept under the rug.

The numbers game is always interesting. The net income numbers quoted as profit of $40K a year is based, from what I can tell, solely on domains that actually sold. This is the Mike Mann approach to advertising revenue streams.

The 40 K year seems to be actual a net profit plus portfolio cost. It's hard to know what the unrealized gain/loss in that portfolio is as there's no domain exchange but Doron has admitted to a number of LLNN.net that will come off that number (not a huge impact) and when trying to go from 900 to 500 names its safe to assume that the attrition won't all be due to portfolio sales turnover.

There is always the fluke factor. In that list is a $200 -> $25,000 sale. That's not a repeatable pattern and while it nets bottom line you can't treat it as .. that's like $8K a year in revenue. That's why small time domainers can come up and disappear overnight while the big guys stick around - big profits on luck can be sucked up with bad acquisitions very easily.

For someone starting 3 years ago Doron has clearly done well - he's built a solid reputation, a probably decent portfolio and taken away $40K in cash (minus taxes) in 3.5 years. Efty as a platform shows potential and a good resume padder but I don't see a profitable model in it, personally. Domainers are cheap and the market is small.

I would be surprised if domaining and efty would sustain a living in Hong Kong and he says as much. He seems happy with his lot and that's what matters - but people shouldn't be taken in by the idea that all this is easy. Doron came to the table with skills that not everyone has - it takes time and effort and not part-time flipping.

I think there's something to learn from everyone and especially from someone who's started recently to do well but at the same time domainers tend to deify and raise people to superstar status well before their time and it's encouraged with loose numbers $40K a year on 10-15 hrs*.

*That's now - the first 3 years were much more than 10-15 hrs.

Continued luck to Doron - best wishes for continued success.

 

[Buypolar]

nor am I authorized to speak for him

I authorize you, Kate.

*bats eyelashes*

 

[Kate]

I think you most take those shows as entertaiment. Like some comedy series. Then yes its good to watch. Sad is that newbies may take this as real life. Thats a litte sad

It's not real life. You have to be extremely dedicated and work hard. The easy and lazy lifestyle is not representative at all, unfortunately newbies are almost always lured in by the prospects of easy money. On the other hand it's important to show that it's never too late, even latecomers can do well.

For someone starting 3 years ago Doron has clearly done well - he's built a solid reputation, a probably decent portfolio and taken away $40K in cash (minus taxes) in 3.5 years. Efty as a platform shows potential and a good resume padder but I don't see a profitable model in it, personally. Domainers are cheap and the market is small.

My thoughts as well. I think Efty can only be a side business and he is looking to scale up operations and attain critical mass. When the product is mature enough and you have enough users on board it can run on auto-pilot - more or less - and you start making revenue passively. That's the thing we all dream about.

On the other hand the naysayers and the critics would say this is more proof that domainers have found there is more money to be made by selling services to other domainers: the equivalent of selling picks and shovels to the gold diggers. But Doron has other activities and invests in domain names too.
At least he is charging very reasonable prices, while others are charging hundreds of dollars a month for poor domain advice and guidance.

Personally I think a solution like Efty has a clear niche but the concept is not new at all (plenty of similar experiences in the past) and easily replicated. In my view it is hard to sustain a project like this very long without permanent innovation. The business model is fragile. As long as it remains a domainer solution it will never become big. The domainer niche is too small imo.

Good luck Doron and the team.

Disclosure: I am presently not an Efty user.

 

[N-A]

On the other hand the naysayers and the critics would say this is more proof that domainers have found there is more money to be made by selling services to other domainers: the equivalent of selling picks and shovels to the gold diggers.

According to Doron when posed with the question whether it's possible to make it by doing just that, I gathered that it is, if one indeed has the passion for success.

Is it possible for others in the domain name industry to think outside of the box, much like yourself, and be able to profit by introducing a new product or service to domain name investors?

I encourage everyone to do so. The more innovation in our industry the better. Even if you fail it's a great learning experience to try and do a startup. But as I wrote in my earlier response it usually seems a lot easier from the outside than it is.

Edit: Quotes added for clarity on referred position.

 

[Addison]

For me its not easy to take serious guys that come together every week, start a skype session and talk about domain prices. Then record it and but it to internet.

That's a baseless generalization. That's like me saying I discredit anyone who speaks on a radio show every day... or, you know, works for a living. Absurd.

You can see that some of them have just got up and they have massive hangover from last nights "domaining".

I can tell you don't actually work hard for a living. If you did, you'd understand that people who put in 18 hours a day, working their tails off, look a lot like hungover people. It's called sleep deprivation and exhaustion. Look them up. It might be the only form of hard work you ever witness.

Once I watched half of this "show" - but its not for me.

You formed an opinion from watching 30 minutes of a show that has published hundreds of hours of content? Is this a joke? This must be a joke.

As someone who has been in this business for a decade and watched most of the videos on DomainSherpa, I can unequivocally say that there are valuable insights and information to be learned from watching them. I may not have learned something from every video, but there is great advice in most of them and hearing the viewpoint of other successful investors is enlightening. There are so many ways to be successful in this business, and it's (at a minimum) enjoyable to learn about those other ways.

I know that I'm a better investor for having a wider range of perspective from watching DS videos. The same applies to reading posts on NamePros and domain blogs.

 

[DU]

I authorize you, Kate.
*bats eyelashes*

I can't speak for Kate but the idea that she truly believes "I can't speak for " someone before she does seems unlikely I can't speak for everyone but I think she speaks for all of us.

 

[domeen]

That's a baseless generalization. That's like me saying I discredit anyone who speaks on a radio show every day... or, you know, works for a living. Absurd.


I can tell you don't actually work hard for a living. If you did, you'd understand that people who put in 18 hours a day, working their tails off, look a lot like hungover people. It's called sleep deprivation and exhaustion. Look them up. It might be the only form of hard work you ever witness.


You formed an opinion from watching 30 minutes of a show that has published hundreds of hours of content? Is this a joke? This must be a joke.

As someone who has been in this business for a decade and watched most of the videos on DomainSherpa, I can unequivocally say that there are valuable insights and information to be learned from watching them. I may not have learned something from every video, but there is great advice in most of them and hearing the viewpoint of other successful investors is enlightening. There are so many ways to be successful in this business, and it's (at a minimum) enjoyable to learn about those other ways.

I know that I'm a better investor for having a wider range of perspective from watching DS videos. The same applies to reading posts on NamePros and domain blogs.

Why to you CRY? why?

 

[Fancy.domains]

Really nice episode. I really like the transparecy regarding things such as spendings vs income.

 

[HKIBC]

...For someone starting 3 years ago Doron has clearly done well - he's built a solid reputation, a probably decent portfolio and taken away $40K in cash (minus taxes) in 3.5 years.

Nice thing about HK, where he's based: no taxes to pay whatsoever on offshore domain sales

Efty as a platform shows potential and a good resume padder but I don't see a profitable model in it, personally. Domainers are cheap and the market is small.

Cheap - yes. Market small? Well, that depends on one's perspective. I consider a couple of million people, and counting, pretty nice... cake

I would be surprised if domaining and efty would sustain a living in Hong Kong and he says as much.

Yep. HK is not cheap. More expensive for expats than locals, who usually get by on much less. Especially less square footage housing Like in any other place in the world, though, one's concept of "getting by" depends for the most part on one's tastes, customs and social circle.

 

[GoKaizen]

It's always good to question the domain industry.

People are and should be wary considering many of past practices/scandals. Front running, domain tasting (aka kiting), SnapNames Halvarez, new gTLD registry take-backs, premium ngTLD pricing, Frank Schilling dropping 230K domains, Adam Dicker GD bidding, current Adam Dicker complaints, etc. The list goes on and on.

I don't watch the DS review shows. Domain valuations are more an art than science. Even the pros can be wrong, very wrong.

The interviews are valuable and have great info.

I do not think you are literally blind. I do think your show misleads people and pushes your friends' agenda. It is also important to mention that your own domain ventures are misleading. You reported $230,000 in domain sales last year which was subsequently verified by an independent source. What you did not state was that one of your sales made up for more than 50% of your total sales (or so I have been told). While a big sale does get people excited, it doesn't make someone worthy of a $499 fee. Who knows if that sale is repeatable. Then we must consider the fact that we don't know how much you spent to make up your sale's numbers, that's where the problem compounds. So while you are not literally blind, you are definitely leading the herd blindly into the slaughter house. I am sure you will have a counterargument but even Efty's business model is built on the premise that most "domainers" will not make any money.

Pro business tip: Offer deep discounts to those who pay for a year upfront. The attrition rate in this industry is substantial, so your goal must be to squeeze as much money as possible out of them while they are here. The current model is not sustainable.

 

[Addison]

Why to you CRY? why?

I cry from sheer happiness: tears of joy for how much I love domain names.

 

[BigTree]

Maybe he does not have any service or product for advertise, sale now and that is why he does not want to come to Sherpa Show.

I liked DomainSherpa for a few years, later it became advertising platform for Schilling and other guys and I stop watching it. Anyway most conversations there are constant the same talk, just words are different.

 

[bazabizo]

I liked the interview. I also like the domainsherpa show in general. I don't agree with some of the sarcasm made here about the show. I still give a lot of credit to DS that it made me know a lot of things including estibot, which maybe as a tool I don't use anymore, but it lead to use dropping.com which helps filtering out a lot of crap daily and shortens my search time.
On the negative side, maybe the show was hosting an elite domaines at some point that had me fall for a big cash loss working with. However Michael stopped sponsoring that person and removed his sponsorship and a lot of his videos from the site. A brave act that basically means Michael sacrificed a lot of hours of his own work to support the community by cutting off support for that misleading person.

As for the 230K sale done by cygar, as we move on in this business you will find that at larger scales, you will always need that big sale every year to boost your entire year. If you removed the top 10 YTD sales from dnjournal, maybe the size of the total sales won't be appealing for new domaines? Maybe. But that doesn't mean we must remove them, we just over rely on big sales as move on and get bigger. It's hard to make 230K selling 230 domains at 1K each.

Keep it DV and MC great interview. I will still watch the show whenever I could