3 character price guide is wrong...

[labrocca]

http://3character.com/priceguide.html

They updated and I noticed he lowered the price of the 3 character .net line. Unreal. Also he didn't change the LLL.net's either. Both imho have gone up in value. I see CCC.net's sell here in auction to resellers for $10-$20 on a consistent basis.

Whoever owns that site may not be a participating Namepros member.

bah!!!

 

[zestydomains*com]

I thought he was a member here? I do agree that some prices are off a bit. Here are a couple prices that I think are wholesale.

Things that will make these values higher.

Domain Age
Prounceable
A min of 2 premium letters
All premium letters
SERP's (Search Engine Rank Placement)
Trends

LLL.com $6K
LLL.net $1K
LLL.org $300

LLN.com $280
NNL.com $250
NLN.com $200
LNL.com $200

LLN.net $30
NNL.net $30
NLN.net $15

LLLL.com with all premium letters $225-$300
LLLL.com with one non-premium letter $55
LLLL.com with 2 non-premium letters $30
LLLL.com with 3 non-premium letters $15
CVCV.com $1,500
LLLL.com Prounceable $300

LN.org $1.4K
NL.org $1.4K

Hello All,

To get the first stuff out of the way: I am the author of 3character.com and have been a member here since 2004. The guide was begun in mid 2005, but extends through my research into 3 character domain valuation going back many years beyond that.

A couple of important points:

1. This a guide to the "Minimum Wholesale Price" of each type of 3 character domain. This represents the minimum price a domain of each type would sell for on the open market at the time of each update. Note the word "minimum." Usually a domain that would fetch the minimum price noted would be from a reseller sale with likely a poor letter/number combination.

2. The guide reflects actual recent sales data and pricing trends. The guide does not attempt to give a desired value to any domain type, but rather is a reflection of what the market has yielded as minimum wholesale valuation of each domain type. For example, the minimum wholesale price for an LLL.com domain per the guide is $6400. If you could find an LLL.com for any less than this amount, then it would be selling below the current market minimum and would be a great buy.

The guide is designed to be reactionary and fully based on market sales. There have been many who have been critical of the guide because they think the prices are too low. They are entited to their position, but I would like them to carefully read through the explination below each part of the guide. Note the words "Minimum Wholesale Price." Obviously a domain such as BSM.com is going to be worth well more than the minimum wholesale price, as it has all premium letters and many end-user possibilities. XQZ.com may be closer in line with the minimum price, as those letters tend to dictate a closer to the minimum price value.

There are many who only look at the prices and then are angry the prices aren't higher. Frankly, that's just a bummer. The prices are not based on wishes or desires, but rather on real, bonified sales data.

I've quoted Yofie's example above. His work is valuable and he may have different data to fully back up his numbers. I'll look at LLL.net values, which the data points to a price of $825, unchanged in the last month. Look at these quick examples of LLL.net sales in the last month:

<Alright, I guess Mark deleted the data because it was from DNF>
There's data here on Namepros too of sub $1k LLL.net sales too via search.

Note that they all sold below $1k. One owner even sold qxi.net for $800 (a quick deal I imagine). The minimum wholesale price, weighing in even this one possible exception carefully, points to a value of $825. Sometimes, for best accuracy, one or two low sales are carefully weighted in the analysis. For example, in the last month one LLL.com sold for ~ $5k at Sedo. This is a bargain and not indicative of the current minimum sales prices accross the board for LLL.com domains...and doesn't mean that the new minimum is now $5k. More than likely that buyer bought from a seller who didn't know the value, so this sale is considered a possible exception.

I certainly don't mind detractors to the guide. Discussions like this thread are healthy. 3 character domains are a passion of mine. For those who know me, I own a few 3 character domains myself and I've been especially active in LLL domains for many, many years.

Please give the guide the value it deserves in your own mind. I will absolutely affirm it is as accurate as I believe possible as a direct reflection of the market. Yes, I suppose it would be neat to assign whatever values suited my desires, but that's not at all faithful to what the guide is all about. It is designed to be an accurate, helpful guide to all things 3 character and that is my dedication.

Let the discussion roll on,
zesty

 

[DotWeekly]

Good post Zesty and I do use your site as a guide several times monthly!

Things that I think need to be understood better by domainers.

Minimum Wholesale

Def. of Wholesale in my mind: Products Priced for sale to a Retailer (domainers) to be sold to a consumer (end-user)!

Does this mean that a domain is Cheap or you should buy at the price suggested at 3Char's site? Some would say so. Does the price at 3Char's site mean a domainer should sell to another domainer at that price? Sometimes, but it depends what domainer #1 paid for it first and how that compares to the current market. I don't think Domainers, should be selling to Domainers, at least not as much as we already do.

Think about it. Domainers set the min wholesale! These prices should not be set on DN forums. These wholesale prices should be set at Dropcatcher auction houses. Snapnames, Namejet, Tdnam, Afternic (melbourn it auctions) etc. Basing minimum wholesale on DN forums should not be done. The more "we" domainers drive up the prices for each other at auction, really set's the min wholesale.

 

[Pound]

Let the discussion roll on,
zesty

Thank you for your reply explaining the situation. One question I have is how you value LLL.orgs when the majority of reported sales are higher than those of LLL.nets? I hope the reason is not because of poor reseller prices, because the only reason for these "forum prices" is that they are listed on your site as being worth this amount. Basically, I am wondering if you actually use figures to work out the value of LLL.orgs or if you're simply continuing the trend that you created amongst resellers (i.e. you list low value -> unjustifiably low reseller prices)?

 

[Alex]

I appreciate Zesty's work, and anyway I rely mostly on my price tag.

However as pointed above, I too think LLL.org's are underevaluated a bit (maybe due to lack of reported sales), and it also applies to L-L.com's (they currently are 2% - 3% the value of the non hyphenated version - LL.com's).

However I did not put too much research in this to find out whether the guide does not reflect the market, or this is just an anomaly of the market.

 

[labrocca]

Zesty...I do use your price guide a lot and so do many domainers. I follow the 3 character market VERY closely as it's a substantial part of my portfolio. I have LLL.nets, LLL.info, and LLL.us domains as well as many CCC.net's.

Now I agree that LLL.us dropped in market value in the past 6 months. But I don't see the trend of CCC.net's dropping back to reg fee when A)they are all sold out and B) I see them sell here on a regular basis in reseller auctions for $12-$20.

Isn't it possible you could be wrong? Isn't it possible you didn't do a lot of research this month in your evaluation of the .net's? Your guide sadly DOES effect the market. If you say they are going down in value then in reality...they go down. It's not the other way around. I bet if you jumped 3 char .coms $50 that we would see them rise in value in sales. People use your guide daily to price their auctions and to double check value before buying. Inevitably this happens with most price guides.

I certainly don't mind detractors to the guide.

I am not a detractor...and maybe that's the problem. You don't have anyone here really saying that your guide sucks. We for the most part like your guide.

bah...I am having a bad day all around.

 

[Pound]

Bumping so that hopefully Zesty can answer the questions raised.

 

[zestydomains*com]

One question I have is how you value LLL.orgs when the majority of reported sales are higher than those of LLL.nets? I hope the reason is not because of poor reseller prices, because the only reason for these "forum prices" is that they are listed on your site as being worth this amount.

Gooster,

The market is what the market is. Forums are a contributing factor to the market and the prices for which domain prices sell on forums are valid.

The guide is based on market sales data. When owners of any particular domain choose to sell to any willing buyer, the price is the meeting point of an acceptable transaction. That price, along with the may other sales prices is indicative of what the current market minimum wholesale price points toward.

My inference from you posting is a concern that the guide seems to dictate prices on the forums. I think that gives the guide way too much credit. The guide reflects sales data. Willing buyers and sellers create the sales data.

If users choose to use that data as a part of their pricing, and buyers use it as a part of their buying, then it can be helpful. This said, ultimately, the value of a domain is the agreed upon price between a willing buyer and a willing seller. There may be some higher priced LLL.org sales, for example, in a given time period, but the minimum wholesale price for LLL.org's may not change, because the guide points to the "minimum price" and not the median, average, high-end, or any other degree of pricing.

I do think that some readers of the guide allow emotion to overcome their analysis. The guide is reactionary and based on sales data. The guide only shows minimum wholesale prices per each 3 character category. Many, if not most all, domains of any particular 3 character combo will be worth more than the guide's numbers on the wholesale market, and certainly so on the end-user marketplace. Very few are selling at the minimum reseller prices.

To give a possible example. Say you own DFQ.com. The guide points to a minimum wholesale value of $6400 for LLL.com domains right now. Is DFQ.com worth $6400? Yes, at least that much and probably more. DFQ.com contains two premium letters, "D" and "F." The "Q" is the only lower quality letter. A 3 letter domain with two premium letters is most always worth more than a 3 letter domain with no premium letters or only 1 premium letter.

--> Should the owner of DFQ.com sell for $6400? If they like, they will probably have no trouble selling at that price, as folks are paying that much for lesser quality combos. More than likely, DFQ.com is worth well more than $6400, as dictated by the letters.

--> If you're a buyer, would you buy DFQ.com for $6400. Recent sales data points to that being a solid buy at that price. But then, given the better letter quality of the combo, it's probably worth more than $6400, and a buyer could still do well to pay a premium above the minimum wholesale price and still get a great name at a fair price.

Finally, the way that comes to my mind to best explain "Minimum Wholesale Price" is to look at it this way:

The Minimum Wholesale Price is the market's suggested price of what any type of 3 character domain is worth, regardless of letter/number/character combo, sight unseen. If you were offered an LLL.com domain for $6400, but you weren't told which one, you'd probably be safe in today's market in buying it, based on the recent sales data, as any LLL.com points to a minimum wholesale price of $6400 right now based on recent sales data.

I know this is a wordy response, but I hope it is helpful. Please take the guide for what it is: a guide that carefully reflects sales data and points to minimum wholesale pricing for each 3 character type.

Thanks,
zesty

 

[Kenny]

As this is so clearly defined at the bottom of the page:

*Guide Rationale: The 3character.com price guide provides the lowest "Minimum Wholesale Price" for each type of 3 Character domain listed. It is important to note that the minimum price shown in this guide typically reflects the selling prices for the lower quality character combinations of each type. Letter and Number quality are very important in determining a 3 character domain's value and can have a great effect on each domain's wholesale value. Many, if not most all 3 character domains, will sell on the wholesale level at prices higher than quoted in this guide, as this guide's focus is to reflect a minimum price valuation per category.

I find it hard to see what the issue is.

Peace,
Cy

 

[mktgmark]

I am not sure what the problem is as two things come to mind...

1. As mentioned by others, it is clearly stated on the site that all prices reflected are minimum wholesale prices.

2. One of the words most used on the site is "guide". It is not a price list. It is not a sales sheet. It is not a bible. It is a price guide. It doesn't matter if you are dealing in impressionist paintings, early American furniture, baseball cards, or domain names... when you are dealing with a guide, it is just reference material designed to steer you in the right direction. This specific price guide gives you a base price (Minimum Wholesale) to work from - feel free to adjust the price up to compensate for premium features that exist for your specific domain name. No matter what field you are in, there is a big difference between looking at a price guide and getting an appraisal done.

My .02

 

[Pound]

I am not sure what the problem is as two things come to mind...

1. As mentioned by others, it is clearly stated on the site that all prices reflected are minimum wholesale prices.

2. One of the words most used on the site is "guide". It is not a price list. It is not a sales sheet. It is not a bible. It is a price guide. It doesn't matter if you are dealing in impressionist paintings, early American furniture, baseball cards, or domain names... when you are dealing with a guide, it is just reference material designed to steer you in the right direction. This specific price guide gives you a base price (Minimum Wholesale) to work from - feel free to adjust the price up to compensate for premium features that exist for your specific domain name. No matter what field you are in, there is a big difference between looking at a price guide and getting an appraisal done.

My .02

And I have absolutely no doubt that this is the case. Zesty says that I'm giving the site too much credit, however, you only need to look at the number of threads where they say "the minimum wholesale price is, so..." to see that this "guide" most definitely affects sales prices. Therefore, because people do not understand the concept of higher prices for premium names in the marjority of cases on the reseller market, you are able to find names that significantly undervalued. Great for the buyer, bad for the seller.