warning Does Rami Steitieh A/K/A steitieh Shill? You Decide.

N-A · Oct 17, 2016

In March of 2016 @steitieh was found guilty of shill bidding on NamePros with @tha-she. While these two members are no longer permitted to conduct business with each other here, @steitieh is still able to participate in the marketplace and carries an undeserving PRO badge.

Recently, Rami was accused of shill bidding again. However, the evidence is circumstantial, at best, but it's admitted by him that he had close personal acquaintances bid on his auctions – something that we all know that most other marketplaces would never tolerate.

Beware: if you choose to bid on one of @steitieh 's auctions, know that someone else may be purposefully bidding you up.

equity78 · Oct 18, 2016

David Walker said:
Only the author does. And that's me, at the moment.

I don't see namePros shutting down the Adam Dicker thread; why this one? More evidence will come to light.

Remember, it's "shills" not "shills specifically on namePros". I've already posted a Flippa auction that is suspect as well to substantiate my claim that he shills.

Eric can correct me but I believe Namepros will not edit or close a thread started in warnings and alerts. David has every right to run his thread within the rules of Namepros. Staying on topic to the discussion of shill bidding. Other topics should get a separate thread.

Paul · Oct 18, 2016

I ran a few queries through our fraud detection system and didn't pick anything up. This typically excludes the possibility that the two accounts in question are operated by the same person. There are conditions under which these tests can result in false negatives, but an individual with the skill level necessary to achieve that wouldn't be wasting time shill bidding. Keep in mind that this only rules out operation by the same person; it doesn't necessarily rule out collaboration by multiple people.

David, while I appreciate your passion and your fight for justice, please keep in mind that there are multiple morals at play here. Our community expects a former moderator to maintain confidentiality when dealing with matters that may be sensitive. Yes, some good may be achieved by outing a potentially problematic member, but there is also something to be said for promoting a safe, comfortable environment in which staff can be trusted. This trust, in turn, allows us to obtain more accurate information when sorting out disputes.

Remember, the evidence you're referencing is largely circumstantial. While you may find it quite convincing, there remains an undeniable possibility that you may have misjudged the intentions of the people you are accusing. Your analysis of the situation will be more accurate if you're able to see it from multiple perspectives, even those that you oppose, and you may notice key points that you would've otherwise missed. I encourage you to fight not to be right, but to do right--even if it ultimately means admitting that your initial assessment was incorrect.

cyc · Oct 18, 2016

This has really became NamePros version of Casey Anthony Case.

Crysis · Oct 18, 2016

Paul Buonopane said:
I ran a few queries through our fraud detection system and didn't pick anything up. This typically excludes the possibility that the two accounts in question are operated by the same person. There are conditions under which these tests can result in false negatives, but an individual with the skill level necessary to achieve that wouldn't be wasting time shill bidding. Keep in mind that this only rules out operation by the same person; it doesn't necessarily rule out collaboration by multiple people.

David, while I appreciate your passion and your fight for justice, please keep in mind that there are multiple morals at play here. Our community expects a former moderator to maintain confidentiality when dealing with matters that may be sensitive. Yes, some good may be achieved by outing a potentially problematic member, but there is also something to be said for promoting a safe, comfortable environment in which staff can be trusted. This trust, in turn, allows us to obtain more accurate information when sorting out disputes.

Remember, the evidence you're referencing is largely circumstantial. While you may find it quite convincing, there remains an undeniable possibility that you may have misjudged the intentions of the people you are accusing. Your analysis of the situation will be more accurate if you're able to see it from multiple perspectives, even those that you oppose, and you may notice key points that you would've otherwise missed. I encourage you to fight not to be right, but to do right--even if it ultimately means admitting that your initial assessment was incorrect.

This is by far the most sensible post in this thread

N-A · Oct 18, 2016

@Paul Buonopane, while I appreciate your input, the thread title is "WARNING: Rami Steitieh A/K/A steitieh Shills", not "WARNING: Rami Steitieh A/K/A steitieh Shills Exclusively on namePros".

Earlier, I've posted circumstantial evidence of anonymous bidders on one of his Flippa auctions that have since been banned and suspended; this is far more reaching than on namePros alone.

If @FlippaDomains would say why those two bidders were banned, and if it happened to be shilling, whether on that particular auction or not, it's safe to say that he has an army of shills.

NamePros isn't involved in external affairs, I'm aware of that. That's why I put out a generalized warning.

Paul · Oct 18, 2016

Your title doesn't seem to acknowledge that there's a distinct possibility you could be wrong. What if you're needlessly ruining the reputation of two innocent people? Please reword the title to note that this is speculation based solely on circumstantial evidence. Also, we have thread prefixes for a reason; there's no need to add your own manually.

N-A · Oct 18, 2016

Paul Buonopane said:
Your title doesn't seem to acknowledge that there's a distinct possibility you could be wrong. What if you're needlessly ruining the reputation of two innocent people? Please reword the title to note that this is speculation based solely on circumstantial evidence. Also, we have thread prefixes for a reason; there's no need to add your own manually.

He's already been warned to not participate in auctions with @tha-she. It's not circumstantial. There was a reason for the warning, and although it was clarified, it's still not accurate.

Perhaps

WARNING: Rami Steitieh A/K/A steitieh Allegedly Shills and Allows Rules to be Broken by Friends on NamePros

As he was definitely found guilty of canceling many auctions and allowed bids to be retracted by his friends, but reported other delinquent buyers.

Too long though?

Referenced rule:
6.2.6. All valid bids are binding and cannot be retracted. Bids are void when outbid by another member. Auctions and bids that are unclear, illegible, conducted outside of the public listing (e.g. via private message), contain inaccurate information or invalid amounts are considered null and void.

N-A · Oct 18, 2016

Title changed.

It follows a similar thread's acceptable format.

Paul · Oct 18, 2016

Perhaps I was unclear:

Your evidence is circumstantial and NamePros staff will treat it as such. This is not a matter of debate.
You must change your title to something acceptable now.
Do not quote rules to staff members. Rules can't take specific scenarios into account. Staff members can. My word takes precedence over the rules. When you don't have instructions from a staff member, that is when you use the rules. Again, this is not a matter of debate.
This is not a democracy.

If any of this is unclear, I've got about 15 minutes before I go to bed in which I'd be happy to demonstrate the absolute minimum level of decency with which you should be going about accusing people of shill bidding.

Edit: Thank you for changing the title. You were very close to crossing the line there.

Chris Hydrick · Oct 18, 2016

Paul Buonopane said:
This is not a democracy.

Not a democracy? How is the largest domain community governed then? A dictatorship?

ZapNano · Oct 18, 2016

One thing I have learned from EBay auction is that, eBay set standard rules for buying and selling; however ebays allows members buyer and seller to communicate and resolve their own issue. Steep rules is not good in business.

Paul · Oct 18, 2016

Grilled said:
Not a democracy? How is the largest domain community governed then? A dictatorship?

We're actually governed by a board of sentient toaster ovens.

ZapNano · Oct 18, 2016

N-A · Oct 18, 2016

Paul Buonopane said:
Do not quote rules to staff members. Rules can't take specific scenarios into account. Staff members can. My word takes precedence over the rules. When you don't have instructions from a staff member, that is when you use the rules. Again, this is not a matter of debate.

That wasn't specifically directed towards you. It was a rule that Eric previously mentioned in this thread that I wanted to remind the readers to recognize and consider prior to making their determination on whether @steitieh has shills or not.

Paul · Oct 18, 2016

My current understanding of the situation is that the accounts involved have always been confirmed as separate people. Although suspicious circumstances have arisen in some cases, I've been told that they appear to be a result of Rami going out of his way to help others, often resulting in disbelief on the part of a third-party. I haven't personally verified the accuracy of this assessment. However, I have looked into the technical side of things, and he very clearly doesn't fit the typical profile of a shill bidder. All of this is either limited in scope or circumstantial, but hopefully it provides some balance and an alternative perspective. It never hurts to look at the situation from a different point of view.

TRY · Oct 18, 2016

I think mr. Walker should be commended for taking the effort and time to help the community and should not be penalized as his intentions are good.

I love namepros for its people and the content they create to make this a great place. Without the people namepros will fall just like the other forum that I won't name.

I think at this point in the thread there is enough information an intelligent person will come to their own conclusion.

ZapNano · Oct 18, 2016

Some of these posting here are derived from super negativities; it shows forceful direct demand after demand wanting of an answers. Demanding VS request; are two different animals. If you come to me and demand something sorry your not going to get an answer. Tune of voice are also visible; anybody can smells you a mile away, what you are trying to accomplished.

Dominar777 · Oct 18, 2016

Iam also victom of Rami is thread.. Rami should be banned
Thanx

Addison · Oct 18, 2016

Dominar777 said:
Iam also wictom of Remi is thread.. Remi should be band
Thanx

You're not a "wictom" or victim. Read the discussion before posting. Shaking my head...

steitieh · Oct 18, 2016

Dominar777 said:
Iam also victom of Rami is thread.. Rami should be band
Thanx

Who are you? You know, it's not really a Fame Maker thread here - you either speak what you have or ....

trap3 · Oct 18, 2016

ksusha64 said:
@Eric Lyon are you saying you knew 1 month ago that dnbank.com and @steitieh are best friends since 2003, using same scripts, same server etc and you were perfectly ok with it?

Friends sit and play poker at casinos and online, all the time.
Does not mean they are colluding in any way.

N-A · Oct 18, 2016

Dominar777 said:
Iam also victom of Rami is thread.. Rami should be banned
Thanx

Correction: Almost a victim, in my humble opinion.
https://www.namepros.com/threads/ticketbooking-org.966894/page-2#post-5697049
It looks like someone else, was victimized, by shilling.

steitieh · Oct 18, 2016

David Walker said:
Correction: Almost a victim, in my humble opinion.
https://www.namepros.com/threads/ticketbooking-org.966894/page-2#post-5697049
It looks like someone else, was victimized, by shilling.

You just wont Stop - do you ever understand what people said? DnBank is 100% innocent and ALL his bids are valid - Move on and stop pushing false facts.

You had to change the title because you were "PROVEN" wrong, yet you still play the odds and neglect to obey to the facts that DnBank is for REAL - you by no way can call anybody in the case you've mentioned a victim -

Finally, I can see clearly that after you ran out of ALL your options and allegations in NamePros - you're now heading to Flippa

To me this is hilarious as you don't give up easily, but the total and final outcome will be against you - Good Luck anyways.

-Rami

P.S - If you were in another forum , and kept on calling it Shilling while the management confirmed a gazillion times that it's not, I think you would have been banned already!

N-A · Oct 18, 2016

trap3 said:
Friends sit and play poker at casinos and online, all the time.
Does not mean they are colluding in any way.

Very bad analogy:
1) if friends are playing blackjack, they're "colluding" against the house; and
2) if they're playing Hold'em, there's a mutual understanding of who wins the pot amongst friends (and possibly the house dealer)

There were no prior indications that @steitieh and @DNBank.com and @tha-she were friends when bidding against "outsiders".

mad409 · Oct 18, 2016

never mind.

warning Does Rami Steitieh A/K/A steitieh Shill? You Decide.

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