The LLLL.com sales and discussion thread

Namejet this weekend:
avvv $283
igoh $211
eldb $161
usht $256
sros $306
bhdf $161
adsg $1,500
gpwh $89

SnapNames:

LQQL.COM $144

WORDSWORTH said:

SnapNames:

LQQL.COM $144

Click to expand...

Interesting, thats what I call a 'looks like' LLLL.com

Q looks like O.

I have a few - MQRN / NEQN / etc

FantasyCombine said:

Namejet this weekend:
avvv $283
igoh $211
eldb $161
usht $256
sros $306
bhdf $161
adsg $1,500
gpwh $89

Click to expand...

Thanks Jeremy.

I'll add:

NCIE $666
USOD $462

Deal

Anyone want to sell a whole bunch of LLLL.COM's in a bulk deal for AT LEAST $XXX?
I'm looking for AT LEAST 25 or so decent ones...
PM me please.
PayPal immediate payment.

Thanks!

FantasyCombine said:

There's no reason to be alarmed. They will all be bought up once they drop back into the public pool. There's no reason to pay $13 when you can pay $8.

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Except for those who are expiring and for sale at $5 (Godaddy Auction), is the BuyOut still alive ???

Thanks

DirectoryNetwork.com said:

Except for those who are expiring and for sale at $5 (Godaddy Auction), is the BuyOut still alive ???

Thanks

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'Far as I know, there were a few days a couple months ago when several hundred low quality LLLL.coms were available to register. That awoke the vacuum cleaners and nothing has stayed available for long since.

Those expecting a collapse had better hurry up with it - the Nov 2, 2007 buyout drops will be upon us in about 3 weeks.

accentnepal said:

Those expecting a collapse had better hurry up with it - the Nov 2, 2007 buyout drops will be upon us in about 3 weeks.

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Why do I get a mental-image of snoop as Snidely Whiplash, crouched down rubbing his hands in anticipation.

At NJ:

SBAP $310

Nem0 said:

Why do I get a mental-image of snoop as Snidely Whiplash, crouched down rubbing his hands in anticipation.

At NJ:

SBAP $310

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It looks to me like the buyout is set to hold. Nothing is for certain but given the market has improved I would be suprised if it fell over in the next few weeks.

snoop said:

It looks to me like the buyout is set to hold. Nothing is for certain but given the market has improved I would be suprised if it fell over in the next few weeks.

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Maybe i will put your quote in my sig! LOL

With even snoop sounding positive on the market, I guess things are definitely looking up.

I tossed out an idea for a "premium llll.com" listing site hoping to get some feedback, and only got one response. Do any of you regular four letter domainers have an opinion? I would really appreciate some thoughts before I commit any more time to making it happen. Do you think it would help increase the amount of high dollar sales in this niche, and/or stimulate some new investors and drive up prices across the board?

(Page 724, Post 18098 if you want to read it in full...)

Nem0?

FantasyCombine?

Accentnepal?

Wordsworth?

ToiletMonster?

I respect your opinions, among others, and would appreciate hearing what you think. Thanks for all your hard work monitoring sales, and keeping the LLLL.com conversation going.

Nem0 said:

At NJ:

SBAP $310

Click to expand...

+

sbom $211
sedr $201
bnbe $161
sbih $142

---------- Post added at 01:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:05 AM ----------

Not sure why Snoop is saying this exactly now, the premiums have been stagnating in the last 2 months. The low end seems to be recovering a bit though.

totaldomainer said:

With even snoop sounding positive on the market, I guess things are definitely looking up.

I tossed out an idea for a "premium llll.com" listing site hoping to get some feedback, and only got one response. Do any of you regular four letter domainers have an opinion? I would really appreciate some thoughts before I commit any more time to making it happen. Do you think it would help increase the amount of high dollar sales in this niche, and/or stimulate some new investors and drive up prices across the board?

(Page 724, Post 18098 if you want to read it in full...)

Nem0?

FantasyCombine?

Accentnepal?

Wordsworth?

ToiletMonster?

I respect your opinions, among others, and would appreciate hearing what you think. Thanks for all your hard work monitoring sales, and keeping the LLLL.com conversation going.

Click to expand...

Even though i did not make your legends list and I'm quite insulted, i will reply anyway!

Anything is possible i guess, no one has tried a premium LLLL.com site, if you mean quad premium and CVCV.com etc. Reece did have BQB going for a while, which was a short domain auction and sales site, but i would have to let Reece speak about that i think.

It really is hard to see a LLLL.com listing site work if you include all LLLL.com, as listing $10 domains and paying a fee etc is not worth the time IMO. I would also think you would need to be a complete authority on LLLL.com to get a site up and running with a following.

Hope this helps. :gl:

Even though i did not make your legends list and I'm quite insulted, i will reply anyway!

Click to expand...

Ooops. Sorry. I guess I was kind of offhand with my list of "call-outs".

Thanks for your reply, maxeaus. And, you are right about one thing. Without the support of people like the regular contributors to this forum, it stands no chance of making a difference.

For clarification, here is the outline of my idea :

A "free" listing site for premium LLLL.com. (as you said, all-premium, cvcv, etc. -- some kind of agreed upon minimum quality) Not a sales marketplace, but an active index of available premium four letter domains... the only requirements for a listing would be a BIN price (link to the sponsoring marketplace, website, etc.)

Of course, it would be also acceptable to have the individual listings display with a text box so that the seller could identify an opening bid they would consider sending to auction, or offer some other payment structure besides BIN price. However, forcing the sellers to commit to a listed BIN price (even if high) will provide the marketplace with a real range of prices, and in theory, keep inventory moving.

Why do it? Why spend the money on hosting, etc. to provide free listings?

Because I'm invested in the market. I will benefit by seeing the market improve, across the board.

Because I think by organizing what is available (in terms of premium LLLL.com) on the aftermarket the whole niche might get some real momentum, and prices might start moving toward BuyDomains style four figure sales more often even for triple premiums and the rest... The top will get real hot attention, but the rest might benefit from "trickle down interest".

In a perfect world, the domain for the job of promoting the value in "premium" four letter domains, in my opinion, is the one recently sold by Reece. But since I don't have access to that, I will try to come up with something. That is, provided the members here see the opportunity as I do, and encourage me to continue, or can help me come up with a better idea. My intention is to help raise the real value of short (read: LLLL.com) domains.

Thanks again... and please keep the conversation going. Positive momentum in the market is a good thing.

totaldomainer said:

Ooops. Sorry. I guess I was kind of offhand with my list of "call-outs".

Thanks for your reply, maxeaus. And, you are right about one thing. Without the support of people like the regular contributors to this forum, it stands no chance of making a difference.

For clarification, here is the outline of my idea :

A "free" listing site for premium LLLL.com. (as you said, all-premium, cvcv, etc. -- some kind of agreed upon minimum quality) Not a sales marketplace, but an active index of available premium four letter domains... the only requirements for a listing would be a BIN price (link to the sponsoring marketplace, website, etc.)

Of course, it would be also acceptable to have the individual listings display with a text box so that the seller could identify an opening bid they would consider sending to auction, or offer some other payment structure besides BIN price. However, forcing the sellers to commit to a listed BIN price (even if high) will provide the marketplace with a real range of prices, and in theory, keep inventory moving.

Why do it? Why spend the money on hosting, etc. to provide free listings?

Because I'm invested in the market. I will benefit by seeing the market improve, across the board.

Because I think by organizing what is available (in terms of premium LLLL.com) on the aftermarket the whole niche might get some real momentum, and prices might start moving toward BuyDomains style four figure sales more often even for triple premiums and the rest... The top will get real hot attention, but the rest might benefit from "trickle down interest".

In a perfect world, the domain for the job of promoting the value in "premium" four letter domains, in my opinion, is the one recently sold by Reece. But since I don't have access to that, I will try to come up with something. That is, provided the members here see the opportunity as I do, and encourage me to continue, or can help me come up with a better idea. My intention is to help raise the real value of short (read: LLLL.com) domains.

Thanks again... and please keep the conversation going. Positive momentum in the market is a good thing.

Click to expand...

Legends...Smegends!
...
J.K., you could learn a lot from many members on this forum
...
I once doubted LLLL.com's myself until I saw "the light" :p

totaldomainer said:

I tossed out an idea for a "premium llll.com" listing site hoping to get some feedback, and only got one response. Do any of you regular four letter domainers have an opinion? I would really appreciate some thoughts before I commit any more time to making it happen. Do you think it would help increase the amount of high dollar sales in this niche, and/or stimulate some new investors and drive up prices across the board?

Click to expand...

I am glad you are fighting for this niche. Having an auction site based on LLLL's would most likely not succeed. I loved Reece's idea and was one of the first on board with creating an account, but he was fighting an uphill battle with Sedo, Namejet, and TDNAM. It is hard to compete with the big dogs in this industry. You need a lot of marketing and ad-sharing to even become a speck on the radar. Speaking of Reece, I miss his regular posting in here.

I commend you for trying to pull something like this off, but make sure you are ready to risk thousands of dollars of your time and energy lifting a project like this off the ground and making it a success. You will have an initial response of 100+ people ready to jump on board, and then when their vision doesn't succeed they will move onto something else. I am always up for adding information and stats to any site as well. Considering premium quads are just now showing a $20-$40 increase over the last quarter, you might find some sellers ready to unload some names.

.

Thanks FantasyCombine for the comments.

Yeah, I wouldn't think of doing an auction site, or trying to compete with Sedo, TDNAM, or even Bido. Just a listing site for LLLL.com premiums that sellers are willing to BIN price --- all transactions take place on other marketplaces/sites. (The listing would provide a link to an active listing at the BIN price.)

I would think that this would benefit all sellers of premium LLLL.com --- free to list, and might convert a "premium" sale.

Any other thoughts?

I'm assuming it won't be too expensive/time consuming for a listing site that doesn't have on-site transactions.

_________________

On another topic altogether :

The total number of views for this thread (at the time of writing 456,694) is about to exceed the total number of LLLL.coms in existence (456,976). Only a few hundred more pageviews to go...

totaldomainer said:

With even snoop sounding positive on the market, I guess things are definitely looking up.

I tossed out an idea for a "premium llll.com" listing site hoping to get some feedback, and only got one response. Do any of you regular four letter domainers have an opinion? I would really appreciate some thoughts before I commit any more time to making it happen. Do you think it would help increase the amount of high dollar sales in this niche, and/or stimulate some new investors and drive up prices across the board?

(Page 724, Post 18098 if you want to read it in full...)

Nem0?

FantasyCombine?

Accentnepal?

Wordsworth?

ToiletMonster?

I respect your opinions, among others, and would appreciate hearing what you think. Thanks for all your hard work monitoring sales, and keeping the LLLL.com conversation going.

Click to expand...

It didn't work when the market was far stronger so I don't see it working now. bqb.com/llll.com etc. It takes immense resources to make a domain sales site work. As far a high dollar sales go that is largely enduser sales and they usually contact people direct.

I think it would have to be about low priced sales though I still don't see how it would be more appealing than a forum or ebay.

totaldomainer said:

With even snoop sounding positive on the market, I guess things are definitely looking up.

I tossed out an idea for a "premium llll.com" listing site hoping to get some feedback, and only got one response. Do any of you regular four letter domainers have an opinion? I would really appreciate some thoughts before I commit any more time to making it happen. Do you think it would help increase the amount of high dollar sales in this niche, and/or stimulate some new investors and drive up prices across the board?

(Page 724, Post 18098 if you want to read it in full...)

Nem0?

FantasyCombine?

Accentnepal?

Wordsworth?

ToiletMonster?

I respect your opinions, among others, and would appreciate hearing what you think. Thanks for all your hard work monitoring sales, and keeping the LLLL.com conversation going.

Click to expand...

With sedo losing their market share for most LLLL.coms, there is a opportunity here.. although it would take a lot of resources to make this succesful. I'd talk to reece about his experience with bqb.com, but a LLLL.com sales site wouldn't be a bad idea.

I'd keep it small and just for LLLL.coms, bqb's range got too broad and was flooded by crappy quality overpriced domains.

The way bido.com started, with just one or a couple domains per day, high exposure per name would work IMO. But sellers will keep in mind that the buyers will be domainers and you'll only see reseller prices, sedo often has some companies and developers bidding on names for a new project or such.

Thanks for the advice, Toilet Monster. I'm glad you see an opportunity (even though a conditional one, at best.)

I will try and see if Reece is available for a chat. Meanwhile, I've been brainstorming some possible domains for the site... I'll keep you posted.

(for the record : I'm not considering using the domain in my signature for the proposed listings site, and almost none of the domains I have for sale at present would make the "premium" grade, IMO)

Sold rrlh.com & rbhm.com for $179 each on DNF.

price fluctuations like the ones we had between the buyout and today are normal.

Considering we had the worst recession since 1930 and stock markets lost about 50 % from their picks in each Country, I would be surprised if domains were gaining in price when also house prices were falling.

What is important to note is that endusers sales in the $1,000 - $3,000 range at the various sites kept coming all the time.

You try to buy a LLLL.com from someone out of domain forums for less than $500: you are lucky if you get a reply. That says it all.

Of course if you are worried about renewals my advice is not to get into this at all.

Why BuyDomains has been successful at this? They pay us $10 to $30 for a nice one and wait to sell it for nothing less than $500 but most of the times much more.

italiandragon said:

price fluctuations like the ones we had between the buyout and today are normal.

Considering we had the worst recession since 1930 and stock markets lost about 50 % from their picks in each Country, I would be surprised if domains were gaining in price when also house prices were falling.

Click to expand...

80%-100% falls are a long way from "normal". The LLLL.com area has been a basket case.

italiandragon said:

What is important to note is that endusers sales in the $1,000 - $3,000 range at the various sites kept coming all the time.

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That is no surpise, they happened a long time before the buyout aswell.

italiandragon said:

You try to buy a LLLL.com from someone out of domain forums for less than $500: you are lucky if you get a reply. That says it all.

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This is another example of wild exaggeration that we have seen from you before. Offer to buy random LLLL.com's for $500 and your PM box will be full in an hour. The minimum looks to be under $5 right now. It is a bit like the time you claimed LLL.com started at $10k, when the minimum was actually 6k and that LLLL.com would soon reach $250 minimum. Of course they reached $0.

italiandragon said:

Why BuyDomains has been successful at this?

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They buy quality domains businesses would want. Not random meaningless names.

snoop said:

80%-100% falls are a long way from "normal". The LLLL.com area has been a basket case.



That is no surpise, they happened a long time before the buyout aswell.



This is another example of wild exaggeration that we have seen from you before. Offer to buy random LLLL.com's for $500 and your PM box will be full in an hour. The minimum looks to be under $5 right now. It is a bit like the time you claimed LLL.com started at $10k, when the minimum was actually 6k and that LLLL.com would soon reach $250 minimum. Of course they reached $0.



They buy quality domains businesses would want. Not random meaningless names.

Click to expand...

replying to you is pointless as you can`t even read properly anymore what I write.

One problem I see with starting a new marketplace is how one would go about differentiating oneself from what is already out there. I've been a fan of Bido since it started up, however I doubt very much it would have succeeded had it's founders not had a sizeable domain portfolio from which they could afford to "sacrifice" some of their weaker names from -- who wants to auction their domains on a brand new marketplace at no reserve?

The other real killer, as mentioned previously, is advertising. Targeted advertising in this industry is incredibly expensive. The only cheap route seems to be advertising on domain blogs, however I'm not sure what percentage of a domain blog's readers are as interested and invested in domains as the kind of people who frequent domain forums, domain conferences, etc (re: the kind of people you would want to register at your new marketplace). Judging by the eCPM domain blogs are charging versus targeted industry events and forums, I'm led to believe it's probably not very high.

I have to agree with Snoop on this one -- with the economy and short domain prices as they are today, it would most likely prove to be even more difficult to successfully introduce a short domain marketplace.

Charging commission would be nice but realistically looking at what's already out there, you're probably not going to be able to charge very much unless/until you get better results than the players already out there. Nobody is going to complain about paying a steep commission if you get them double for their domain what they otherwise could have, however that really is overly optimistic thinking in my opinion and I do think zero commission on top of zero listing fees would probably be one of the few ways to entice people to give it a try. If you do that (like I tried with BQB), you're making absolutely zero and are completely reliant on advertisers to support your site. The one unfortunate thing someone trying this like I did will soon find out is that most of the largest advertisers in this industry are... the other domain marketplaces. They're probably not going to be overly enthusiastic about helping a site succeed at their expense.

Even if we were somehow able to find people happy to pay a commission (listing fees would definitely not work in my opinion), that means we need to generate sales if we want to turn a profit or even break-even. A quick look at the prices being asked on domain forums, domain marketplaces, and domain conferences will reveal that either:

a) Most domainers haven't the least clue what their domain is *actually* worth, so they pick some large number which they'd be happy to see it sell for.
b) Most domainers aren't interested in selling at reseller/domainer prices.
c) Most domainers *think* end users abound for their domains and expect other domainers to pay end user prices for them on domainer marketplaces.

I've never understood the logic of asking end user prices in a non-end user environment (eg. domain forums). You don't have to be an industry expert to understand why a marketplace solely composed exclusively of domainers is not going to support end user prices. That's the real problem... If you can't find end users and every serious domainer is already a member on other large domain marketplaces, what makes you different and how do you go about getting better prices for domains than people can get on their own or at other existing domain marketplaces?

The idea of am exclusively short domain list / newsletter similar to that offered by Rick Latona but only for short domains is an interesting concept, however most short domains just aren't worth enough to make this worth the time of the person putting this together. If one looks at the short domains selling for $1000+ (even a $1000 sale would only be $100 at 10% commission), pretty much all of them are either end user sales, LLL.coms, or LLLL.coms that might have 4 letters but get their value for other, often obvious, reasons. If they're the type of short domains that have 3-4 letters but are dictionary words, well-known acronyms, receive massive type-in traffic, revenue, etc, I don't see why they wouldn't see better results at an existing marketplace.