Epik, We have a problem. Domain removed from account without permission.

[bmugford]

I am sure as many of you are aware I have had issues with Epik in the past, but decided to give them a chance when I saw a domain I wanted on Name Liquidate.

I purchased the domain PianoMoving.com on 7/20. It was transferred into my account then.
This was the only domain in my account.

It was in my WHOIS information.
I updated the nameservers.

When I just checked it is magically no longer in my account.
The nameservers were changed.
I received zero contact about the domain being moved.

I have all the receipts -

1.) The purchase/renewal from Epik.
2.) The Paypal charge.
3.) Email of when the domain was moved into my account @ Epik.
4.) Email when the nameservers were updated in early August @ Epik.

I don't see any indication that the domain was removed from my account.
On top of zero communication, there also appears to be nothing under "Outgoing Pushes" or "Task History".

I sent a DM to @Rob Monster about this earlier this morning, but have not received a response yet.

I was just notified I received a refund. I don't want a refund.

I want the domain I won, that was in my account, which I had full control over.
It was removed from my account without permission or even notification.

I do not find this acceptable in any way.

@Epik.com, you have some explaining to do.

Brad

 

[branding]

I have an alternate take just for fun since it appears the thread is getting close to resolved, as there is no remedy, etc. I will probably get blasted for posting this.

I guess the question is: what did bmugford know at the time when he purchased the domain? As an investor why would he choose to spend nearly 1k on a domain that is 11 letters long?

People might say, oh because it's a good name, etc. Yeah but there are tons of such names available for less than 1k if you are an investor. "pianomovers" for example would be also a similar name of equal quality perhaps.

Early in the thread you mentioned the purchase of this particular domain was based on the prior selling price of this exact domain.

Since the sale had taken place in May, you might have known about it from when it was announced on twitter or from other sources such as namebio.

you might have thought it was just expired due to the purchaser's negligence in renewing said domain and the goal was to purchase the domain for 995 and then try to sell it back to them for another $12k or higher due to their stupidity in not renewing the domain.

That would explain why, when scanning names that had recently sold for 5 figures and then you noticed it was recently listed on nameliquidate, which could only be seen as a major error on the purchaser's part in letting the domain expire, you decided to purchase immediately for $995 or something instead of doing what most people would do, and wait for the price to go down to $150 or something and then buy it.

If so - then you were sort of taking advatage of a glitch in epik's system in sending the names immediately to nameliquidate upon expiry - to get the domain - which is really smart!

One could actually farm the names at that price level in the effort to obtain good names immediately that have mistakenly been left to expire.

then later it turned out it was not expired due to the purchaser's negligence but due to epik's negligence while on a manual payment plan. That explanation cannot be made-up because braden confirmed the domain was on a payment plan.

I guess the response is: if you are going to try to do things that are really smart and sneaky, involving capitalizing on a system where a registrar places all names up for sale (BIN) automatically upon expiration, then you have to realize sometimes these ideas will work and sometimes they are not going to work and the domain could be clawed back.

Should you lash out at epik over this, given the foregoing? well clearly it was a mistake and attempted capitalization on that mistake from the get-go and stuff so I don't know.

if you get them in trouble and they have to end nameliquidate as a result, then you won't be able to farm for these expiration mistakes in the future... since the other sites have an "auction" system.

You got it all wrong. The previously reported sales price wasn't 12K but $990.

And yes, the value is obvious to a trained eye.

 

[bmugford]

You got it all wrong. The previous sales proce wasn't 12K but $990.

And yes, the value is obvious to a trained eye.

Right, that previous sale was $990 in 2020.

I mentioned that sale to show that $900 was not some out of line price when it comes to purchasing this domain.

Brad

 

[bmugford]

I guess the response is: if you are going to try to do things that are really smart and sneaky, involving capitalizing on a system where a registrar places all names up for sale (BIN) automatically upon expiration, then you have to realize sometimes these ideas will work and sometimes they are not going to work and the domain could be clawed back.

Should you lash out at epik over this, given the foregoing? well clearly it was a mistake and attempted capitalization on that mistake from the get-go and stuff so I don't know.

if you get them in trouble and they have to end nameliquidate as a result, then you won't be able to farm for these expiration mistakes in the future... since the other sites have an "auction" system.

No, the response is you need to get a clue.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and your post is way out of line.

@Braden Pollock please clarify that there is simply no possible way I could know about the $12K sale, when it was only reported on 8/18. The domain was purchased almost a month earlier.

Brad

 

[Pairadice]

you decided to purchase immediately for $995 or something instead of doing what most people would do, and wait for the price to go down to $150 or something and then buy it.

The name is decent and stuff but don't you think it was sort of strange to "jump" at this name at $995.. it's not THAT good of a name.. if you are seeing it 100% as a "brandable" registered in only 12 extensions currently.

also you are the one who has stated numerous times that the cost of domains is prohibitive given their sell-thru rate.

why not wait for it to go down to $150? Did you really think someone else would want this name that badly that you couldn't wait?

I have some stuff I would love to show you if you are buying similar names for $995. nothing involving pianos or anything but, well let me check if I have a nice piano domain . actually I do have one, I might be willing to sell it for $995. currently it's listed for $3k retail.

I am not sure if I believe that you chose this name out of thousands and thousands and spent that much on it as a brandable!

 

[bmugford]

The name is decent and stuff but don't you think it was sort of strange to "jump" at this name at $995.. it's not THAT good of a name.. if you are seeing it 100% as a "brandable" registered in only 12 extensions currently.

You are either trolling, or simply don't understand domain values that well.

The term "pianomoving" is taken in 216 .COM alone with the words together.
It is a highly desirable term.

why not wait for it to go down to $150? Did you really think someone else would want this name that badly that you couldn't wait?

I am not sure if I believe that you chose this name out of thousands and thousands and spent that much on it as a brandable!

Are you serious? This is 2022.
You could not even get this quality of domain for $150 15 years ago.

"Piano Moving" is not a brandable. It is a keyword domain in a lucrative field, perfect for lead generation.

I think the problem here really comes down to your ability to understand the value of a domain like this.

Brad

 

[hui2000]

The name is decent and stuff but don't you think it was sort of strange to "jump" at this name at $995.. it's not THAT good of a name.. if you are seeing it 100% as a "brandable" registered in only 12 extensions currently.

With much respect and not trying to create an argument or debate on price.

I honestly feel the name is worthy $995.

 

[Lox]

I honestly feel the name is worthy $995.

Piano Moving Costs at a Glance

• Overall price range: $150-$5,000
• Price per hour: $10-$100+
• Local move: $1.50-$2.50 per mile; $350-$1,000 total
• Long-distance move: $2.50-$10 per mile; $700-$3,500 total
• Overseas move: $2,000-$5,000
• Upright piano: $150-$300, local; $1,000+, long-distance
• Grand piano: $200-$1,500, local; $2,000+, long-distance

source

 

[hui2000]

Piano Moving Costs at a Glance

• Overall price range: $150-$5,000
• Price per hour: $10-$100+
• Local move: $1.50-$2.50 per mile; $350-$1,000 total
• Long-distance move: $2.50-$10 per mile; $700-$3,500 total
• Overseas move: $2,000-$5,000
• Upright piano: $150-$300, local; $1,000+, long-distance
• Grand piano: $200-$1,500, local; $2,000+, long-distance

source

Thanks for sharing, as this brings out the true picture why i said the name is worthy $995

 

[Lox]

Thanks for sharing, as this brings out the true picture why i said the name is worthy $995

The way how you define the dn value … learning about is a lot more challenging than it may seem.

 

[HotKey]

Piano Moving Costs at a Glance

 

[Lox]

The question is, why there is no redirect bf 18.08 . Only after 18.08

 

[Braden Pollock]

I’ve never called myself a “top domainer” but I wonder what you would consider to be the qualifiers?

Still waiting for your reply here...

Let’s also acknowledge this -

@Braden Pollock entered an agreement to sell a domain, knowing it would expire during payment terms. He should’ve renewed up front and this all would’ve been avoided.

My account is set for auto-renew so there was no need to manually renew the name. Once the name was removed from my acct, it would have been the buyer's responsibility to renew (via escrow).

 

[Future Sensors]

@Braden Pollock Still waiting for your reply. Have all installments now been paid in full? Who is the current registrant in your opinion? Thank you.

 

[Braden Pollock]

Of course.

That’s my point. Braden supports this company monetarily that does weird and unethical shit.

I "support this company monetarily"??? I invested about 10 years ago. Do you really not understand how investments work or are you simply just trolling me?

 

[Braden Pollock]

@Braden Pollock Still waiting for your reply. Have all installments now been paid in full? Who is the current registrant in your opinion? Thank you.

No. The domain is on a payment plan. Since the name is held in escrow, they are in control. Hence would be registrant of record. I have zero control.

 

[Braden Pollock]

I have an alternate take just for fun since it appears the thread is getting close to resolved, as there is no remedy, etc. I will probably get blasted for posting this.

I guess the question is: what did bmugford know at the time when he purchased the domain? As an investor why would he choose to spend nearly 1k on a domain that is 11 letters long?

People might say, oh because it's a good name, etc. Yeah but there are tons of such names available for less than 1k if you are an investor. "pianomovers" for example would be also a similar name of equal quality perhaps.

Early in the thread you mentioned the purchase of this particular domain was based on the prior selling price of this exact domain.

Since the sale had taken place in May, you might have known about it from when it was announced on twitter or from other sources such as namebio.

you might have thought it was just expired due to the purchaser's negligence in renewing said domain and the goal was to purchase the domain for 995 and then try to sell it back to them for another $12k or higher due to their stupidity in not renewing the domain.

That would explain why, when scanning names that had recently sold for 5 figures and then you noticed it was recently listed on nameliquidate, which could only be seen as a major error on the purchaser's part in letting the domain expire, you decided to purchase immediately for $995 or something instead of doing what most people would do, and wait for the price to go down to $150 or something and then buy it.

If so - then you were sort of taking advatage of a glitch in epik's system in sending the names immediately to nameliquidate upon expiry - to get the domain - which is really smart!

One could actually farm the names at that price level in the effort to obtain good names immediately that have mistakenly been left to expire.

then later it turned out it was not expired due to the purchaser's negligence but due to epik's negligence while on a manual payment plan. That explanation cannot be made-up because braden confirmed the domain was on a payment plan.

I guess the response is: if you are going to try to do things that are really smart and sneaky, involving capitalizing on a system where a registrar places all names up for sale (BIN) automatically upon expiration, then you have to realize sometimes these ideas will work and sometimes they are not going to work and the domain could be clawed back.

Should you lash out at epik over this, given the foregoing? well clearly it was a mistake and attempted capitalization on that mistake from the get-go and stuff so I don't know.

if you get them in trouble and they have to end nameliquidate as a result, then you won't be able to farm for these expiration mistakes in the future... since the other sites have an "auction" system.

Your theory is far-fetched and totally preposterous.

 

[Braden Pollock]

You are either trolling, or simply don't understand domain values that well.

The term "pianomoving" is taken in 216 .COM alone with the words together.
It is a highly desirable term.


Are you serious? This is 2022.
You could not even get this quality of domain for $150 15 years ago.

"Piano Moving" is not a brandable. It is a keyword domain in a lucrative field, perfect for lead generation.

I think the problem here really comes down to your ability to understand the value of a domain like this.

Brad

Brad, this person is trolling you. I wouldn't bother to continue to defend yourself. It's a waste of energy.

 

[tonyk2000]

The question is, why there is no redirect bf 18.08 . Only after 18.08

Yeah, there are a few unanswered / curious questions and it is one of them. Should Brad send a complaint to ICANN, they will likely request all related evidence from Epik and we'll know more... However, ssl certs history is public: https://crt.sh/?q=pianomoving.com . There was a letsencrypt ssl cert requested and obtained for pianomoving dot com on 2022-05-26. After ~2 years of "ssl silence". So, even though we cannot say what host or service requested ssl certificate, and did they start to use it - it is clear that _something_ was changed on May 26th, which may well be domainpush + default config on receiving end for example.

 

[bmugford]

My account is set for auto-renew so there was no need to manually renew the name. Once the name was removed from my acct, it would have been the buyer's responsibility to renew (via escrow).

No. The domain is on a payment plan. Since the name is held in escrow, they are in control. Hence would be registrant of record. I have zero control.

I said this earlier, but I am satisfied that Braden did not have possession of the domain at the time of my purchase, and therefore could have not been responsible for the renewal.

That responsibility (and failure) had to fall to another party, either Epik or the domain buyer.

Brad

 

[Recons.Com]

Let's imagine what would have happened if Epik discovered their epic screw-up 2 months later after Brad having it moved out.

They'd have to reach out to him, explain the situation and make a decent offer. Probably in mid xxxx$ to high $xxxx. Otherwise, they'd have to negotiate with the buyer, explain the epik screwup and settle it with large compensation. Buyer could have taken them to court and then epik would be up for high five figure to low six figure in legal costs and compensation.

So, just because Epik still could, they dodged all that trouble and cost by stealing the name. There is no other word for it, because by all means the name was now owned by Brad. Frankly, I think Brad has a great chance to win the case in court.

 

[frank-germany]

Let's imagine what would have happened it Epik discovered their epic screw-up 2 months later after Brad having it moved out.

They'd have to reach out to him, explain the situation and make a decent offer. Probably in mid xxxx$ to high $xxxx. Otherwise, they'd have to negotiate with the buyer, explain the epik screwup and settle it with large compensation. Buyer could have taken them to court and then epik would be up for high five figure to low six figure in legal costs and compensation.

So, just because Epik still could, they dodged all that trouble and cost by stealing the name. There is no other word for it, because by all means the name was now owned by Brad. Frankly, I think Brad has a great chance to win the case in court.

agree
the problem is to use "the Lords own Registrar"

 

[bmugford]

Let's imagine what would have happened it Epik discovered their epic screw-up 2 months later after Brad having it moved out.

They'd have to reach out to him, explain the situation and make a decent offer. Probably in mid xxxx$ to high $xxxx. Otherwise, they'd have to negotiate with the buyer, explain the epik screwup and settle it with large compensation. Buyer could have taken them to court and then epik would be up for high five figure to low six figure in legal costs and compensation.

So, just because Epik still could, they dodged all that trouble and cost by stealing the name. There is no other word for it, because by all means the name was now owned by Brad. Frankly, I think Brad has a great chance to win the case in court.

Yes, whatever happened regarding ownership, payment plan, and lack of renewal is not really my problem.
If some other party failed to perform their responsibility to renew the domain, that is their own incompetence.

People lose domains all the time for failure to renew, for any number of reasons.

The only reason this was able to happen is because Epik had the access to remove the domain from my account.

They took advantage of that access and removed the domain without authorization. They then decided to provide no notice, explanation, or refund until I noticed it later.

I would also like to know where the $900 went. The $900 was in someone's account from between at least 7/20 to 8/31. Which account was holding that money?

I have asked multiple times for anyone to name even one other similar case, with specifics that are similar to this one. As of now, no one has done that. In my view that really shows how far outside the norms this is.

Brad

 

[Brands.International]

After reading this whole thread, I am 100% with Brad.

I hope responsible person from Epik will reach to Brad and offer an serious apology for TRULY HORRIBLE experience he was subjected to so far.

To read about registrar which just takes domain name without any notification out of the account weeks after purchase .. this is like a total nightmare scenario for me, tbh. Then to see how Rob communicated with Brad in this thread is an further enhancement of that nightmare for me, so unenjoyable to read..

In my personal opinion: after an SINCERE apology and detailed explanation about what happened, EPIK should negotiate with Brad how to settle this in a way all parties are happy. Epik should fully own mistake they did, and propose a REAL compensation/settlement.

I am not very frequent here anymore, but I will be watching it, like many other people.

 

[bmugford]

After reading this whole thread, I am 100% with Brad.

I hope responsible person from Epik will reach to Brad and offer an serious apology for TRULY HORRIBLE experience he was subjected to so far.

To read about registrar which just takes domain name without any notification out of the account weeks after purchase .. this is like a total nightmare scenario for me, tbh. Then to see how Rob communicated with Brad in this thread is an further enhancement of that nightmare for me, so unenjoyable to read..

In my personal opinion: after an SINCERE apology and detailed explanation about what happened, EPIK should negotiate with Brad how to settle this in a way all parties are happy. Epik should fully own mistake they did, and propose a REAL compensation/settlement.

I agree.

Despite being offended by what Rob Monster said about me, I am still willing to try and reach an equitable solution.

I feel like an outcome that includes an apology for what happened, a commitment to make sure it doesn't happen again, and an equitable offer to resolve their mistake is best for all parties involved.

Unfortunately, at this point it doesn't feel like Epik feels the same way.

If they reached out to me and acted in good faith to try and resolve this, I would be more than happy to say that.

Brad

 

[branding]

@bmugford

Is it correct that up to this point they haven't reached out to you at all, explaining/discussing the situation except for rob's insane statement?

It's crazy...