Domain Liquidation Platform - Seeking input for new Epik project

[DanSanchez]

Dear Namepros,

The team at Epik is exploring the development of a project that aims to shift the painful domain name expiration process into a more profitable experience for domainers. Perhaps you have read my opinions about registrars selling expired domains and refusing to help registrants in recovery. The time to disrupt this with action has come!

In the meantime, since joining Epik last month, I decided to do something about it with the help of some amazing engineers. The goal of this "name liquidate" idea is to sell domains directly to buyers that may otherwise wait to acquire these domains at expired auctions or being filled as registrar backorders which pays zero to the registrant.

The planned solution addresses two domainer pain points,
1. Liquidation of expiring inventory brings much needed capital, meaning you can renew more of your portfolio.
2. Buyers get clear title and dont waste time bidding on names that can be recovered post-expiry.

Here is the process,
1. Submit your domains: you unlock your domains, provide auth codes.
2. Seller acknowledges that a fast-transfer of the domain will occur once domain has a bid.
3. Bidders agree to non-revocable change of ownership if their bid prevails.
4. Sellers receive a large portion (80%?) of auction proceeds.

The process begins with a 7 day reverse auction counting down hourly/daily, down to $1 plus renewal/transfer for delivery. The domain doesn't have to be expired or expiring. You can submit the name multiple times during the life of the name but not more than once per year. Once the auth code is verified:
• Epik parks the domain with auction template with Make Offer pricing so retail bids can come in.
• Wholesale buyers are informed of expired auction inventory update.
• Domain goes through reverse auction in 7 days
• Domains are fast transferred to Epik as soon as one bid is made.
• If seller locks name, all domains will be removed and no further listings will be accepted from seller.
• Domains already at Epik are pre-qualified for "name liquidate" services, but you must opt in manually.
• External domains are eligible once auth codes are verified.
• Data will include number of views, expiration date, and expected delivery.
• Pre-set domain buys will give you the ability to buy any name when a price hits a certain target.
• Once a bid is submitted, it cannot be revoked. All purchases a final non-refundable.
As for brand name, we are considering NameLiquidate.com — very descriptive name and targeted at a very specific audience. That said, open to considering other names. A separate brand naming project is coming shortly for what Rob describes as the “Ultimate Digital Brand Marketplace”. This is separate.

 

[Rob Monster]

Good progress on Liquidation project.

Brand-wise, we'll go with NameLiquidate.com. It is currently in development.

Also, for awareness, Daily Diamonds has a lot of inventory today:

https://marketplace.epik.com/daily-diamonds

Prices bottom at $9.

 

[Ostrados]

Good progress on Liquidation project.

Brand-wise, we'll go with NameLiquidate.com. It is currently in development.

Also, for awareness, Daily Diamonds has a lot of inventory today:

https://marketplace.epik.com/daily-diamonds

Prices bottom at $9.

Is this same project as this:
https://www.namepros.com/threads/he...e-ultimate-digital-brand-marketplace.1167901/

or they are 2 different projects?

 

[Rob Monster]

Is this same project as this:
https://www.namepros.com/threads/he...e-ultimate-digital-brand-marketplace.1167901/

or they are 2 different projects?

These are 2 different projects:

1. NameLiquidate.com: Wholesale marketplace for fast liquidation of inventory at prices of as low as $9.

2. Ultimate Digital Brand Marketplace: Retail-facing marketplace to address needs of people who shop at Flippa, Sedo, Squadhelp etc. The buyers can buy bundles of domain, software, social handles, etc.

The brands are separate in order to prevent liquidation inventory (with liquidation pricing) cluttering the experience for retail buyers reviewing curated inventory.

@DnFolk
@DanSanchez

 

[DanSanchez]

We are fast-tracking this project, aiming to have it up and running before the holiday sets in. Any feedback we get during the next few days will be crucial for implementation for the initial version of the NameLiquidate marketplace.

Also, folks that want to line up their portfolios for auction please do the following:
1. Compile a list of names and authorization codes. This means ensuring the names are unlocked and ready for transfer. (Names at Epik please make a separate document, no need for auth codes.)
2. Send me your portfolios at Daniel@Epik dot com with an agreement to the terms. You cannot lock the domains once provided and you cannot pull them from reverse auction once it begins. If you do, I will devise a penalty system for repeat offenders.

If any of your domains sell, the transfer will need to be done the same day. Meaning fast-transfer when available.

Let's go!

 

[Ategy]

Sigh .. almost missed this discussion .. it's well hidden!


1 - Good Idea
I actually brought up the idea of expired domain revenue sharing with @Rob Monster several months ago .. so obviously I think this is a good idea and don't really see how anyone could really be against it. It's simply one more option/tool we can use to sell domains we were going to drop.

Remember that if it's a good name we think we could get more money for .. then it's probably not a drop.


2 - Commission
It's also important to note that a 20% commission is significantly less than the 100% commission GoDaddy charges when our names sell at expiration there! lol

Yes 20% sounds like a lot (not even sure if that's the real final number of just a random number used to describe the mechanics of the system) .. but once there's a critical mass of domains at auction every day and an actual audience and pool of buyers, a small commission will certainly be worth it. That's a pretty big if .. but you never know .. it certainly doesn't hurt any of us if they try. Worst case scenario if you don't like it .. then don't send your domains there.


3 - Reserves
I think the biggest problem with allowing reserves will be that most people will overvalue their domains (like we see here with about 99% of listings). It would not be a bad idea if you limited it only to those who have proven themselves to have reasonable expectations for the sales price of their domains .. but we need to remember that this is liquidation .. most names will be bad .. and buyers will be expecting good deals for the very few that aren't. If it's a time based reverse auction it won't be so bad .. but I still think there will be way too much abuse.


4 - Double-Sided Auctions
That being said .. I think a very good idea would be to have the liquidation auction work BOTH ways. Instead of buyers setting a "threshold buy price" (which actually has the problem of what happens if there are two people with equal amounts). Have it actually be a regular action that starts at $1 on day 1 (or whatever the minimum you had in mind for the reverse auction). But at the same time have a time-based declining BIN price as time goes by.

So at some point if nobody hits the BIN, that BIN will eventually meet the highest bid and that will end the auction. Although more likely for good names, near the end people will spend a few extra dollars for the BIN to be 100% they get it.

For example .. let's say this was the declining BIN schedule:

Day | BIN
1 | 10,000
2 | 7,500
3 | 5,000
4 | 2,500
5 | 1,000
6 | 500
Every 4 hours of day 7 | 250 > 200 > 150 > 100 > 75 > 50 > 25 > 15
Then reduce from $15 to $1 over the last few hours

People could start bidding from $1 at any point. For the best domains (remembering it is a liquidation seervice), it'll probably go into the hundred. So whenever the highest bid equals the BIN, the auction stops .. although there's always the risk that someone hits BIN (a big probability on good domains if you get a reasonable number of buyers)


5 - Bid spreads
Also .. please be sure the spread between bids goes up progressively:
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,12,14,16,18,20,25,30,35,40,45,50,60,70,80,90,100,125,150,175,200,225,250,300,350...
Doesn't need to be exactly that .. but I think you know what I mean .. we're just wasting everyone's time if it goes up $1 per bid indefinitely.


6 - Privacy
With this being liquidation/wholesale focused, I don't think it's in domainers' interest for the auction data to be public. So while access to the auction could be free, the end of the auctions should still only be accessible if logged in, and in the TOS there should be a clause that stipulates no automated mass scraping of data (although I think it would be overkill to not allow any discussion of individual auctions)


7- Name
I like NameLiquidation .. I don't think you need to change it!

Masterbucks

Sigh .. but I don't like this name .. lol .. new name contest please .. unless you want to keep a bad name and confuse people into thinking it's somehow affiliated with MasterCard!?

 

[Ategy]

Also, folks that want to line up their portfolios for auction please do the following:

Let's go!

I think your big obstacle in convincing people to let their "borderline" domains expire into this service is that there's the fear that there won't be any buyers at the start.

What's your game-plan to try to kick-start the project with a minimum critical mass of both half-decent domains and a minimum number of buyers/bidders?

Because to be very honest, if people come to buy, but see domains like in the current daily diamonds, you'll essentially lose them forever .. and then without those buyers, then domains will just sell for $1-$2 (if they even sell at all).

For those who follow me at NameCult, it's no secret that I've got an avalanche of things going on in my life .. which in this context is a good thing in that I've been disorganised and behind on my renewals .. so I could potentially be interested .. but I'd need to know there are buyers as otherwise I renew most of my domains these days.

While I don't think 20% is going to actually make any difference at all at the start if domains sell for $2, but you might want to consider waiving the commission for the first few weeks.

But more importantly you really need a solid multi-pronged marketing plan .. because if you launch half-arsed and not have a minimum critical mass of both (1) decent domains AND (2) bidders/buyers .. then this is going to flop .. and once you lose a potential user the first time, it's 10x harder to ever get them to come back again later.

And it would be a tragedy for such a good idea that could be very beneficial (IN THE LONG TERM) for domainers to fail simply because it wasn't launched properly.


That being said .. just for the sake of trying to help out something new for the industry I'm willing to commit to listing at least a domain or two .. and I commit to making at least one $1 bid on the best domain I see .. even if it's foih3w873.info .. lol
(ADDED: Ooops .. I forgot the prices are +renewal .. so it's going to need to be better than foih3w873.info .. lol)

 

[topdom]

I didn't follow everything.. but let me say something (which may have been said already) anyway.
......
Let's say I have a domain at Epik, and forget (or decide not) to renew it, then it would be great, if, even if I don't do anything if it is sold this way, I get commission (80 percent , 20 percent..?) . I guess if this happens, then a domain with 1K potential would earn $ 1 on the average.

 

[Mister Funsky]

I didn't follow everything.. but let me say something (which may have been said already) anyway.
......
Let's say I have a domain at Epik, and forget (or decide not) to renew it, then it would be great, if, even if I don't do anything if it is sold this way, I get commission (80 percent , 20 percent..?) . I guess if this happens, then a domain with 1K potential would earn $ 1 on the average.

My understanding is that this project is a voluntary one...meaning you have a domain that you do not want to renew you add to the auction process and maybe make some money vs simply letting it drop. It will a be great place for seasoned as well as beginner domainers to pick up names cheaply. After time passes, it should organically begin to have better and better names.

Once a name expires and after the required icann redemption period has passed, it is then up to the registrar what they want to do with it...currently it looks as if the better names that expire at epik go through snapy and the others become daily diamonds. But they may include them (all expired names) all in the new marketplace...I'm sure someone will clarify.

 

[DanSanchez]

I didn't follow everything.. but let me say something (which may have been said already) anyway.
......
Let's say I have a domain at Epik, and forget (or decide not) to renew it, then it would be great, if, even if I don't do anything if it is sold this way, I get commission (80 percent , 20 percent..?) . I guess if this happens, then a domain with 1K potential would earn $ 1 on the average.

The Epik expiry stream will be included in this mark, eventually all domains expiring will be sent there automatically. To begin with, we need to test the waters voluntarily. This means you habe to send me the names you want to liquidate manually. Preferrably if the names are already at Epik, but its not a requirement.

 

[DanSanchez]

Two quick updates to this magical project bring brought to life by the Epik dev team:

1. Dev team is sending us an internal preview of a WORKING WEBSITE tomorrow. I will post several updates on functions, processes, and other features we could implement in the coming weeks as the project grows in volume.

2. Commission was just agreed upon and we are happy to say it will only be 9%! This accomplishes two goals:
A. The community will have no hesitation to send us great inventory. We can compete at a greater level with less costs opportunity to you. There is a 91% upside potential vs letting your domains expire.
B. We can expect a higher volume of transactions per portfolio. Meaning, you can risk less and get better returns or minimize losses with less cost to liquidate.

I still need community feedback on the lowest price. Following similar expired auctions that generate MILLIONS in revenue it could look like this:

- Closeout prices: Ending in 24hrs or less will be priced at 12, 9, 8, and 5 before ending.
- 7 Day reverse auction starting at $998 each domain, dropping price every 4-6 hours.
- Expedited 3 day Reverse auction: Domain starts at $997 and drops every hour until closeout prices for the last 24hrs.

Because we want to remove the emotion of losing inventory to someone else, the prices will need to be beneficial for the sellers and the buyers. I do recognize other expiring auctions have a central benefactor that controls millions of domains at once. The question is, how do we compete for buyers who want great prices for great inventory? There needs to be a balance found and we are listening to you as sellers/liquidators and buyers.

 

[Ategy]

The other benefit you have with 9% is that it's the same as your marketplace .. so less confusion.

Honestly .. I didn't think 20% was the end of the world considering most domains actually let expire likely won't make tons of money (and you do need to make up your costs). I think the standard 15% would have been what I expected. But at 9% nobody can say anything .. it's a fantastic number that I think is more than fair and that should remove any commission concerns from anyone thinking about sending their domains there. Plus Epik also makes a few more cents on the renewal portion.

12, 9, 8, 5 doesn't really make much sense though. The steps should shorten towards the end regardless of what the lowest number will be ...

... 69, 59, 49, 44, 39. 34. 29, 25, 21, 18, 15, 12, 9, 7, 5 would make more sense.

 

[Rob Monster]

The other benefit you have with 9% is that it's the same as your marketplace .. so less confusion.

Honestly .. I didn't think 20% was the end of the world considering most domains actually let expire likely won't make tons of money (and you do need to make up your costs). I think the standard 15% would have been what I expected. But at 9% nobody can say anything .. it's a fantastic number that I think is more than fair and that should remove any commission concerns from anyone thinking about sending their domains there. Plus Epik also makes a few more cents on the renewal portion.

12, 9, 8, 5 doesn't really make much sense though. The steps should shorten towards the end regardless of what the lowest number will be ...

... 69, 59, 49, 44, 39. 34. 29, 25, 21, 18, 15, 12, 9, 7, 5 would make more sense.

Truth be told, the engineers said it would take many days off of the development schedule if we stayed consistent with the existing rates for marketplace and lease. And since we are about co-creating abundance and returning liquidity back to domainers, it made sense to just be very lean on commission. I have asked the engineers to deliver fully operational V1 before month-end along with the escrow dashboard which is currently in staging for QA. We have some more surprises coming.

 

[Ategy]

That being said .. I think you're missing out on an opportunity to increase purchase prices on the better names ... as "the heat of the moment" most certainly comes into play when people are engaged in an auction and they fear losing out to somebody else.

Double ended auction (BIN goes down > < Bids go up)
Also .. have you considered what I said about about the double sided auction by having bids going up until it means the current BIN?

I think that would really boost the final sales amount on the better inventory thanks to some last minute BINs from people who want to beat the competition.

 

[Mister Funsky]

- Closeout prices: Ending in 24hrs or less will be priced at 12, 9, 8, and 5 before ending.

Whatever the starting price (truly irrelevant other than the fact that if it is too low I, and others, may not participate) so lets say it starts at 1200 on day seven. There should be a logical downward daily progression, slowly at first of course, to allow someone to stumble onto the auction and grab a name they have been wanting whether retail or wholesale buyer. A higher sale price means more money for both of us (seller and epik) plus you get the 'onboarding' of domains/domainer as I assume the 60 day lock is mandatory.

The significant drop should not begin before the 48 hour (maybe 36) period countdown begins. There should be a consistent hourly price reduction ending with a steady and predictable $5 an hour for the last 36 hours (or 48) so an investor watching will know when he/she should be ready to jump in to ensure the name is 'caught' before someone else gets it (otherwise, people will wait for the next big drop to buy the name if the tiers are irregular and too steep...not what either of us want). The expectation for the bidder/buyer should be created such that someone else may take the name at any time is essential to keep the energy/activity up.

Ending time is important as well. Will it be EST, PST or Zulu. Whatever the time is, it should be logical as to when most domain investors are active (easy enough to determine...plenty of data out there). For example, I will not get up at 4am my time to jump into an ending auction...ever.

 

[Ategy]

100% agree with @Mister Funsky that the start should be VERY slow to allow for discovery. In fact .. I'd go so far as to say NO price drop in the first 24 hours.

That being said .. when it comes to hourly small BIN price-drops vs less frequent bigger BIN price-drops, I'm not so sure. I think on the other side if there are more distanced drops, then people would be more likely to be there waiting to pull the trigger. With slower drops people might simply keep saying .. I'll let it drop one more .. but then keep doing it.
(Ever play a game of Sid Meier's Civilization .. "Just one more turn" .. yeah riiiiight .. lol)

And yes .. also give some serious thought as to the timings .. it isn't the end of the world since it's progressive price dropping, but make sure they are all timed more or less together with a bit of a spread in time .. but of no more than an hour.
(I think GoDaddy just kills people with 5.5 hour long auction days)

 

[Mister Funsky]

So, what are the parameters? I can see the 9% commission and I'm pretty sure it is a 72 hour countdown...and based on a post above it bottoms at $9.

I looked on the nv page but didn't spot rules and regs...if I missed them, please let me know...if not, it would be helpful to have them clearly stated.

 

[Rob Monster]

So, what are the parameters? I can see the 9% commission and I'm pretty sure it is a 72 hour countdown...and based on a post above it bottoms at $9.

I looked on the nv page but didn't spot rules and regs...if I missed them, please let me know...if not, it would be helpful to have them clearly stated.

It is still being fully deployed but is in progress with work from @DanSanchez and @vitigo's engineering team. Nevertheless, the preview of the NameLiquidate site is live:

https://nameliquidate.com/

People can start adding inventory to it from here:

https://registrar.epik.com/portfolio-liquidate

There is live inventory on it now with countdown started -- it is a 3 day auction and it bottoms at $9.

Epik will buy some names just to make sure folks don't waste their time.

The team is working to have this all done by Saturday as the first batch of liquidation inventory counts down. The hard parts are all done.

 

[Mister Funsky]

It is still being fully deployed but is in progress with work from @DanSanchez and @vitigo's engineering team. Nevertheless, the preview of the NameLiquidate site is live:

https://nameliquidate.com/

People can start adding inventory to it from here:

https://registrar.epik.com/portfolio-liquidate

There is live inventory on it now with countdown started -- it is a 3 day auction and it bottoms at $9.

Epik will buy some names just to make sure folks don't waste their time.

The team is working to have this all done by Saturday as the first batch of liquidation inventory counts down. The hard parts are all done.

Ok...thanks. I've been distracted with typical holiday drama the last couple days and thought I missed an update (found out niece has a new tattoo sleeve, another nieces surgeon husband hoards spatulas, my much older sister has been keeping significant family secret).

I'm gonna write a book when it's all done.

 

[Rob Monster]

Just checked::

https://nameliquidate.com/

There are already more than 600 domains in this liquidation cycle. There are going to be some deals in this mix for sure. We'll be interesting to see at what price point domains get taken out. I see some solid 3 and even 4 figure domains in these lists -- including some "shoot the moon" candidates!

If folks want to finance some domain purchases, PM me and we'll see what we can do. The end-goal is to get domains into the hands of end-users. For the folks who have more time and talent, but less treasure, we'll do what we can to help there.

Also, very important, you are free to front-run! So, in other words, try to find a buyer, and then once your buyer is confirmed, then you can snipe the domain.

 

[DanSanchez]

So, what are the parameters? I can see the 9% commission and I'm pretty sure it is a 72 hour countdown...and based on a post above it bottoms at $9.

Correct, right now we are still testing key functions and adding content. The stream of domains is now ALL epik expired domains, if any names sell, the account which the expired domain belonged to will be credited automatically.

Have to say, I am extremely proud to be part of the Epik family. This is going to shift things so much!

By Saturday we should have full functionality.

 

[RJ]

Looks interesting. At the end of the 3 day auction, if the domain does not sell for $9 then it is removed from the NameLiquidation platform and we are free to sell elsewhere again?

 

[Rob Monster]

Looks interesting. At the end of the 3 day auction, if the domain does not sell for $9 then it is removed from the NameLiquidation platform and we are free to sell elsewhere again?

Correct.

There is a suggestion to keep the domain listed in a "Bargain Bin". That should be something that you opt into though since indeed some folks might not want that. However, for someone with expired/expiring domains that could be a great option since there are often folks coming to these marketplace sites looking for bargains. The new NameInvestors.com widgets will make it increasingly easy to present relevant domains to folks as the widget framework learns and adapts to user preferences.

If you don't know about that one, it was introduced here:

https://www.namepros.com/threads/so...to-the-domain-industry-this-christmas.1169741

 

[Ategy]

Hey guys .. looking like there's tons of potential here.

that being said .. just took a peek and seems like there's still some crucial elements needed before you push this.

1 - Help / information / instructions / details: Currently non-existent?

2 - Search: only manual? You should really implement at least some basic advanced search.

3 - Download: Some would like to be able to download the entire list (with available data if possible).

4 - Timing: I see you have some ending at 5am (2am Pacific). Is this really the optimal end time? I really suggest you have them all end at the same time every day. Otherwise there will be too many differing price points and end times and just overall confusion. I also highly suggest you mention when the next pricedrop will be .. it certainly will enhance sales and have some people waiting to jump for the next level.

5 - Pricing: Honestly .. having domains priced at amounts like $682.67 is just silly and distracting. Particularly when talking hundreds of dollars, prices should be rounded to the dollar and even to another higher level ($10s, or $25s .. ei: $680 or $675)

6- SERIOUSLY consider what I said about about adding a second side to stimulate action (increasing bids or proxy BINs)

 

[golan]

Somehow i missed this thread. And it's super crazily amazing stuff you are cooking guys.

So a question: if i submit my expires, what are the lifespan limits? Like, not later than 10 days to expiry, or not later than 10 days upon expiry if i still can obtain the auth code, or what?

 

[golan]

It might help with the psychology part of it. I cant tell you how many times I've failed to sell a name on here for even $20, only to see it get sold at expired auction for $80+

Exactly!

Just two days ago i had a case. I had a domain in my SEO domain shop priced at $90, nobody bought it thru a year and i decided to drop it. Then i found it while scanning DD drop auctions, and the bid was already $480+! And only few hours left. Of course i jumped to renew it. GUILTY! The next morning found a $200 offer via DD, sold.