Pheenix.com is Warehousing Their Customer’s Expired Domain Names

[Arca]

The domain name forexspot.com was dropcaught by Pheenix on September 26, 2016, and in the ensuing auction it was won by a Ukrainian domainer.

A year later the domain was still with Pheenix and let to expire. Similarly to many other registrars, like GoDaddy, DynaDot, Name.com, and NameSilo, Pheenix run in-house pre-release auctions for expired domains.

I recently won forexspot.com in the expired auction for this domain. However, Pheenix did not deliver and have informed me that they do not intend to deliver the domain to me. I was informed about this after the auction had completed and I was waiting to get the domain. So I thought the past owner might have renewed the domain.

But it turns out that Pheenix are warehousing the expired domains of their customers. I already knew that they have their own domain portfolio, but I was not aware that they are cherry-picking domains from their users expired domains. I think in this case they should have owed up to their "mistake" and delivered the domain to me, rather than still go ahead and warehouse it, as I won it in an auction run by them. But completing their own auctions and maintaining the integrity of their own platforms is apparently not important to them.

What is warehousing? From Wikipedia: Domain name warehousing is the practice of registrars obtaining control of expired domain names already under their management, with the intent to hold or “warehouse” names for their own use and/or profit.

Pheenix are now offering the domain for sale for $18,995. And that tagline? "second to none customer satisfaction"? I beg to differ.

 

[offthehandle]

They told me after I won that the auction was a mistake

Based on what you stated above, I call that response you were given complete and utter BULLSHIT.

I posted this earlier this year about On.TV :

https://www.namepros.com/threads/on-tv-never-dropped.1025677/

 

[offthehandle]

https://www.namepros.com/threads/buying-keyword-coin-domains.1024977

https://www.namepros.com/threads/buying-brandbucket-domains-big-budget.1024670

https://www.namepros.com/threads/buying-5n-com-portfolios.1019799

https://www.namepros.com/threads/buying-6n-com-portfolios.1019426

https://www.namepros.com/threads/looking-to-buy-2-keyword-com-combinations.1019428

https://www.namepros.com/threads/buying-domain-portfolio-with-parking-revenue.1019425

https://www.namepros.com/threads/short-keyword-tv.973024

Thanks @Grilled you are the man with the data!!!!! Keep up the great work.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

@Arca

I'm not familiar with this process of buying expired domains from Pheenix. Is this different from backordering one of their domains?

Per their backordering Terms of Service HERE there are two types of backorder, Gold or Super Saver. Did you have to place a backorder to bid on this domain? If so, was it a gold or super saver backorder?

All domain sales are final, irreversible, non-refundable, and ineligible for Account credit. Not all domain extensions are available for backordering. Customers may place a Gold Backorder or a Super Saver Backorder; a Gold Backorder will be given priority. Pheenix and its partners, subsidiaries, and affiliate companies may place a backorder on any domain name.

 

[wwwweb]

Based on what you stated above, I call that response you were given complete and utter BULLsh*t.

I posted this earlier this year about On.TV :

https://www.namepros.com/threads/on-tv-never-dropped.1025677/

Yes, sounds like he thought he can get way more than he generated from your auction, and bullied you out of the domain.

 

[offthehandle]

@Grilled some of those are probably fishing expeditions too.

Actually, reverse this. By studying their wanted threads those domainers willing to compete- can use that data to understand pricing and buy up names in those niches easier since it's all posted in one thread. Sure it's not any secret, but maybe some newbies can benefit.

Thanks to Kassey Lee's blog and participation here on Namepros:

The 5N request one needs to be careful to avoid the non chinese interest number sequences.
http://coreile.com/123.html

6N info here:
http://coreile.com/p160302.html

Letters
http://coreile.com/abc.html

like the example: ****coin.com (everybody knows that I know)

 

[Arca]

@Arca

I'm not familiar with this process of buying expired domains from Pheenix. Is this different from backordering one of their domains?

Per their backordering Terms of Service HERE there are two types of backorder, Gold or Super Saver. Does this apply here?

Buying expired domains from Pheenix is comparable to buying expired domains from GoDaddy. These are pre-owned pre-release auctions where domains are sold off after they expire and before they go to pending delete.

When you backorder a domain with Pheenix that domain is in pending delete and soon to be deleted. If Pheenix successfully catches the domain, via a fresh registration, it goes to auction and ownership is transferred to the highest bidder.

When you buy an expired domain at Pheenix, somebody previously owned the domain at the Pheenix registrar. When that domain is not renewed/let to expire, they send it auction, where it goes to the highest bidder (though their warehousing needs now seem to supplant the winning bidder if it's a name they want).

 

[Kate]

It is perfectly normal that this incident leaves a sour taste in your mouth. I am not comfortable with the registrars essentially playing against their own customers. They might even be bidding in the auctions incognito. Who knows ?
The fact is, they are watching the drops and picking the names they like. So they are competing against you.

 

[wwwweb]

Interesting point if they can go this far, they can certainly bid against their own clients, as whose to know.

Pheenix marketplace is not exactly robust, I am sure they miss the Chinese hype money that was flowing, and bidding times were good. Just a graveyard of leftovers there now, and with the house taking back anything with potential, I would say game over.

 

[main]

Abandon ship!

 

[main]

That sucks, Arca. It's a nice domain. Seems like they just liked the domain for themselves. Seems like bad form.

 

[Addison]

This didn't get much attention:

V.TV Pending Delete Kept By Pheenix Owner

Superb domain name!

 

[wwwweb]

This didn't get much attention:

V.TV Pending Delete Kept By Pheenix Owner

Superb domain name!

easy money flip on that, just like cashing a certified check, what a great platform, just a playground for the owner, at the expense of his clients.

I recommend everyone move all sitting domains active in their account out of there to godaddy epik uni wherever, just not there, can't trust it.

Who knows maybe 1 day grace on expired domains coming next, looks like he is trying to be a domainer first, and dropcatcher second.

Tough break for Arca, but I have a feeling that $18K listed name, will do him much more damage than that in the long run.

Here is an idea, just shut it down, and keep all the names for yourself, catch them all for you, easier than issuing refunds.

 

[Addison]

easy money flip on that, just like cashing a certified check, what a great platform, just a playground for the owner, at the expense of his clients.

Tragic but that's reality. I watched him do dubious stuff with FreshDrop, but that doesn't pertain to warehousing.

I don't use his services anymore. Why would anyone?

 

[tonyk2000]

They might even be bidding in the auctions incognito. Who knows ?

These was some evidence posted on namepros earlier this year suggesting that this may be the case. I do not remember these threads to be responded by Pheenix. It was about a pheenix bidder "kaizer" or something similar, who by some reason was in many cases the only 2nd person who pre-ordered domains even with a limited interest shown by just one other domainer. Which situation noticeably increased the %%% of open auctions.

 

[tonyk2000]

forgot to include, domains of the same type and "limited interest" quality, if ordered elsewhere (with pheenix specifically excluded), in most cases ended up being delivered by anoter drop catching venues without any bidding for their min. backorder price to this one and only customer who showed interest in them.

So pheenix customer "kaizer" also preferred to place his backorders for these types of domains on pheenix exclusively.

 

[dr manos]

Maybe off topic but in climate, always was curious why Pheenix and Dropcatch.com started so many registrars with the ICANN fees in years that almost all registrars do expiring auctions in house or in other platforms so all good names go there and vary rarely we see strong names at drop.
If was eg at 2005 i would understand it much better.

 

[wwwweb]

Maybe off topic but in climate, always was curious why Pheenix and Dropcatch.com started so many registrars with the ICANN fees in years that almost all registrars do expiring auctions in house or in other platforms so all good names go there and vary rarely we see strong names at drop.
If was eg at 2005 i would understand it much better.

I think during the chinese hype you had 5N, 6N, 4L, 5L, chinese keywords, and other brandables getting backordered like no tomorrow, along with aggressive, and robust crowds fighting for auctions, times were good.

Nobody cares about this kind of stuff anymore, the Chinese have left the building, and dropcatch has maybe less than 10 auctions live on their platform right now, and the selection is pretty dismal.

 

[dr manos]

I think during the chinese hype you had 5N, 6N, 4L, 5L, chinese keywords, and other brandables getting backordered like no tomorrow, along with aggressive, and robust crowds fighting for auctions, times were good.

Nobody cares about this kind of stuff anymore, the Chinese have left the building, and dropcatch has maybe less than 10 auctions live on their platform right now, and the selection is pretty dismal.

Very true, though was only some months at 2015 and actually still this kind of names were taken at expiring auctions and never dropped, so i do not think that the investment of these organizations gone good even that year.

 

[wwwweb]

Very true, though was only some months at 2015 and actually still this kind of names were taken at expiring auctions and never dropped, so i do not think that the investment of these organizations gone good even that year.

It was a good portion of 2015 behind the scenes, and it spilled into 2016. There was many 4L.net, 5L.com's, 5/6N.com's, and other chinese type names, along with .cc, and other short domains that were being backordered. I remember seeing many 5L.com type chips sell for $69-$300 in auctions sometimes.

They had some real serious daily bidders like first, and beanix who were relentless in being there day in, and day out, and they bid on english keyword domains also.

They made great returns, but they are all competing for the same stock now, and pheenix is just not catching any inventory, it has to cut costs, and in doing so it is making itself even weaker. This is why I am guessing they are going the domain route to try, and gain some revenue thru domain sales.

As escrow type transactions, and private auctions have failed in regards to traction, Pheenix is just not generating enough revenue, or traffic at this time to sustain the platform, and connections.

 

[Doron Vermaat]

The rise and fall of Pheenix.. I remember they used to be a great player in the drop-catching space with very competitive pricing and high catch ratios when they first launched a few years back. My most recent experience with them has been very poor as well, I emailed their customer service 3 or 4 times trying to resolve an issue and never got a response. In the end, I had to contact the owner trough LinkedIn to get a reply.

 

[wwwweb]

The rise and fall of Pheenix.. I remember they used to be a great player in the drop-catching space with very competitive pricing and high catch ratios when they first launched a few years back. My most recent experience with them has been very poor as well, I emailed their customer service 3 or 4 times trying to resolve an issue and never got a response. In the end, I had to contact the owner trough LinkedIn to get a reply.

The owner is customer support, he wears many hats.

 

[yikun]

Some time back I lost the auction of a caught name by them, onyx.org, to another "bidder".

Later I discovered that the same domain was listed by Pheenix on sale for $39596.

Go figure.

 

[promo]

Sorry to hear this.

The owner is named Tan Tran and he has been a long time service provider in the industry. He owns and operates freshdrop as well.

Tan used to be a stand up guy. You can get a hold of him (or you used to) at [email protected] or [email protected].

 

[wwwweb]

Yes, he is very hands on with his projects, and he can start by giving Arca an explanation. Then go, and fix all his incorrect auth codes.

He broke the cardinal rule, of auctioning off a dropping domain, taking payment, then cherry picking it for his own portfolio, albeit he issued a refund to Arca, but this is not how things should work.

Who wants to support, or use any such platform that does such things?

 

[jideofor]

thieves everywhere in the domain community...