Bidding on your own names at NameJet...?

[webquest]

Once in awhile I see people bidding on their own domains at NJ. I would think it would be frowned upon.

Today's seems more obvious than normal. Or am I missing something here?

Airlinejobs.com owned by Andy Booth at Booth.com and high bidder is BQDNcom (James Booth).

3 bids down we see Boothcom as a bidder.

Same thing with MovieZone.com. Owned by Andy Booth in which he currently appears to be the high bidder.

High Bid: $2,475 USD by boothcom

They actually won their own domain airplanesforsale.com. Im guessing it didnt get as high as they wanted so needed to protect it.

Bidder Amount Date
bqdncom $2,001 7/17/2017 12:23 PM
boothcom $1,950 7/17/2017 12:23 PM

 

[wwwweb]

What did you expect? The facts speak for themselves. They are complicit in these shrill bids. They are not going to find any of these major players guilty. Or to impose any significant bans on any of these users. Their posturing to date, has all been about, damage control. Which is a lost cause.

I agree with you 100%, these players have done to much business, and if they find guilt, Namejet is going to be held liable to pay damages, as these players work in safe havens, and would be very hard to get collection recourse.

 

[wormfood]

As a curiosity, I checked one (randomly selected) domain more seriously - AirlineJobs.com.

AirlineJobs.com is parked (with Bodis). Every parking account now has a google id associated with it. It is never visible anywhere in account settings, but can be easily obtained by checking html/frame codes AND, most notably, http headers. This parking id is the same for all domains parked through the same parking account. For airlinejobs.com, at the time if this writing, it is:

as-drid-oo-1445161623019818

(one needs to look for an entry drid=as-drid ... in codes and headers of any parked domain to find that id).

Any other bodis-parked domain that shares the same google id (as-drid) is DEFINITELY at the same bodis account.

Now, the question. What, if any, other domains are currently parked with the same google id? I performed a number of ggl/yahoo searches and found just one, 2diyer.com - it has non-private whois with the owner located somewhere in China.

Accordinly, it is likely that unrealted (to our story) domain name 2diyer.com and related domain AirlineJobs.com are currently owned or at least controlled by the same person, as one and the same person definitely entered both domains into their bodis account. Moreover, for me it seems unlikely that Booth brothers would register/acquire such a specific domain (2diyer.com), or that they will use chinese proxy registrant for any purpose. Accordingly, it may well be that the domain I checked (AirlineJobs.com) is indeed not legally or technically owned by Booth brothers at the time of this writing, but is owned or controlled by the same Chinese guy or gal ( Registrant Name: nan chen ) who owns 2diyer.com. Why whois shows something else is still a puzzle though.

I did not check other related domains, if somebody is interested - please also post your findings

P.S. any firefox extension to view http headers will help to do the job, together with checking parked page code

AAARatedBonds.com shows Oliver Hoger in whois.
Currently at ParkingCrew
drid: as-drid-2397039701937088

ABPF.com shows Oliver Hoger in whois
Currently at ParkingCrew
drid: as-drid-2397039701937088

JJU.net shows hkdn789 @gmail.com in whois
Currently at ParkingCrew
drid: as-drid-2397039701937088

TPEF.com shows hkdn789 @gmail.com in whois
Currently at ParkingCrew
drid: as-drid-2397039701937088

At the time of posting, at least
It could change

 

[Jim Holleran]

I was just posting my REAL experiences doing ACTUAL business with Oliver. I don't condone shill bidding in any form. I noticed you really think highly of your own opinion and that you have been in the industry for 20 years (you note that in every second post you make).

Another thing I noticed is that you yourself is guilty of highly irregular activity at Namejet. Many would probably put you in exactly the same box as the Booth brothers:

https://www.namepros.com/threads/please-explain-this-to-me-shill-bidding-now-at-namejet-com.848987/

But it makes sense the ones shouting the loudest are often the ones trying to call attention away from their own actions.

You can defend Oliver all you want, but the guy is behind lot's of sill bidding with his cronies such as yourself.

Regarding myself, I have sold hundreds or maybe thousands of names in Namejet, never 1 problem. If somebody wants to bring up 1 thing with no facts, substance, that is the internet. So let's see what the results are from you friend/partner in crime Oliver resolve into? Once we find out, I am sure you will be going into hiding

 

[Michael]

I also looked into "russell" that several people mentioned. I really, really hope you guys are wrong about that because that account has been active since at least 2008, has been involved in nearly 25k auctions (6.7k of which were Oliver's), and placed more than $2 million in back orders and bids. I'll look into this more when I have time and more WHOIS history queries.

I got a tip from someone that "russell" may be Russell Panella from ShortNames.com. This seems to be spot on, looking more into his bidding history around 78% of bids are only the min back order, he's never won a single auction of Oliver's, and is the runner-up only about 0.2% of the time. Seems like an auction tracking bot to me, not a shill account. His account has a very similar profile to my own that I use to track for NameBio, a ridiculous amount of back orders but almost no follow-on bids.

 

[Name Trader]

I was just posting my REAL experiences doing ACTUAL business with Oliver. I don't condone shill bidding in any form. I noticed you really think highly of your own opinion and that you have been in the industry for 20 years (you note that in every second post you make).

Another thing I noticed is that you yourself is guilty of highly irregular bidding at Namejet. Many would probably call YOU a shill bidder:

https://www.namepros.com/threads/please-explain-this-to-me-shill-bidding-now-at-namejet-com.848987/

But it makes sense the ones shouting the loudest are often the ones trying to call attention away from their own actions.

So. Is it possible that Oliver has two personas. Shill Bidder and Respectable Domainer?

One of the people shouting the loudest to deflect criticism in this thread has been Andrew with his crazy hypothesis that bidding on your own auctions is true free market capitalism, and should be permitted. The only reason for interjecting this mantra into this thread, is obfuscation. It has nothing at all to do with this thread. And in the interests of cleaning up this thread should be deleted.

 

[Arca]

Looks like namejet has concluded their investigation, and reported back nothing to it's customers if these parties are still active bidders, or their bids are still active.

Has NameJet provided any updates about their response to this?

Is the scope of their response still limited to an internal investigation by the same team that allowed this to happen on their watch?

Many domainers have posted their experience with NameJet's lackluster response to complaints about shill bidding, and we saw that first hand when this story broke. NJ has enabled this situation. They even revealed that they banned Oliver’s WINNER8888 shill alias, while letting him continue to be an NJ seller.

If there is veracity to all the allegations and findings posted in this thread, and no evidence to the contrary has yet been presented by those accused, what would be an adequate response by NameJet towards these individuals? Should NameJet ban all users that have bid up their own auctions, participated in shill bidding, or used additional shill bidding accounts, even if they just did it on a small scale? Or should they just suspend the biggest wrongdoers, and give the small-time shillers a warning and second chance?

 

[The Rover]

Again and for the last time, I am NOT supporting shill bidding. I'm supporting the IDEA of openly allowing owners to participate in auctions which have NO RESERVE. Everyone has a fair and equal shot at buying the asset. Where is the flaw?

Drew, despite your success in this industry (I think many may actually begin to question some of your practices now) I think you may need to go back and educate yourself on the definition of what a "free market" is and how its actually intended to operate. I have read all of your responses over at The Domains as well as here, and you're trying to offer a whole slew of explanations and hypotheticals that defend such questionable business practices.

Individuals who bid on their own assets are completely disrupting the free market, plain and simple. Creating an inflated, false sense of demand for a product that you own is unethical and disturbs natural the flow of what is perceived to be the actual demand of a product. Forget reserves. Forget any other excuse that you're attempting to offer. The point is that there are many reasons why shill bidding is not allowed on all of the platforms and it's not rocket science why such practices are not allowed. You're not just end user. You're not even a common domain investor. You're supposed to be an industry influencer with arguably the largest and longest list of connections in the industry. The unethical scenarios that we (as outsiders) could extrapolate by you bidding on your own assets, are endless. Stop telling people on Domain Sherpa that your money is "made on the buy", when apparently your money is really made anytime you inflate your own domain's price on NameJet, GoDaddy etc. If your domains are so amazing then clearly there should be no need to artificially inflate their prices. Grow some balls and just sell ethically, straight up, without having to artificially interject yourself into the equation.

 

[wwwweb]

Drew, despite your success in this industry (I think many may actually begin to question some of your practices now) I think you may need to go back and educate yourself on the definition of what a "free market" is and how its actually intended to operate. I have read all of your responses over at The Domains as well as here, and you're trying to offer a whole slew of explanations and hypotheticals that defend such questionable business practices.

Individuals who bid on their own assets are completely disrupting the free market, plain and simple. Creating an inflated, false sense of demand for a product that you own is unethical and disturbs natural the flow of what is perceived to be the actual demand of a product. Forget reserves. Forget any other excuse that you're attempting to offer. The point is that there are many reasons why shill bidding is not allowed on all of the platforms and it's not rocket science why such practices are not allowed. You're not just end user. You're not even a common domain investor. You're supposed to be an industry influencer with arguably the largest and longest list of connections in the industry. The unethical scenarios that we (as outsiders) could extrapolate by you bidding on your own assets, are endless. Stop telling people on Domain Sherpa that your money is "made on the buy", when apparently your money is really made anytime you inflate your own domain's price on NameJet, GoDaddy etc. If your domains are so amazing then clearly there should be no need to artificially inflate their prices. Grow some balls and just sell ethically, straight up, without having to artificially interject yourself into the equation.

Often times on Sherpa Michael references
Oh Drew you own such, and such name, and he always reluctantly backtracks, and says well No, Media Options owns them, so who is Media Options?

 

[atinc]

Organized Crime.

 

[xn--v4h.com]

I was just posting my REAL experiences doing ACTUAL business with Oliver. I don't condone shill bidding in any form. I noticed you really think highly of your own opinion and that you have been in the industry for 20 years (you note that in every second post you make).

Another thing I noticed is that you yourself is guilty of highly irregular activity at Namejet. Many would probably put you in exactly the same box as the Booth brothers:

https://www.namepros.com/threads/please-explain-this-to-me-shill-bidding-now-at-namejet-com.848987/

But it makes sense the ones shouting the loudest are often the ones trying to call attention away from their own actions.

EDIT
LOL even in that thread you keep telling us many years you been in the industry. Wow you must be some kind of guru and the only person here with experience.

Don't worry about it. Not sure how anyone can dispute personal experiences with someone and your personal evaulation of Oliver. At least you give us another side not being presented on this board, thanks. Perhaps more facts will come out and we all have an even bigger picture.

 

[DNWon]

 

[promo]

You can defend Oliver all you want, but the guy is behind lot's of sill bidding with his cronies such as yourself.

Regarding myself, I have sold hundreds or maybe thousands of names in Namejet, never 1 problem. If somebody wants to bring up 1 thing with no facts, substance, that is the internet. So let's see what the results are from you friend/partner in crime Oliver resolve into? Once we find out, I am sure you will be going into hiding

You know what Jim. I think we share a trait. We are both able to spot an As$hole a mile away. Though in your case I think I can stretch the distance to TWO miles away.

So you sold thousands of names on Namejet. How long had you been in the industry again? I dont think I meet a guy so full of himself since the Uglydork.
I am not defending any questionable actions and I wont be going anywhere regardless of how this thread evolves. I am posting my real experiences as facts for anyone to include in the image they are forming of Oliver as a seller.

In conclusion. Did I tell you guys I started domaining more than 10 years ago and closed almost 7 figures in sales the last 12 months.. I just thought that was extremely relevant information to include. I am also a super lover and stronger than all men combined.

PS
I have been in the industry for more than a decade! I lost my old NP login that was from 1995. But really I am a great guy if you ask me!!

 

[jaybuk]

You know what Jim. I think we share a trait. We are both able to spot an As$hole a mile away. Though in your case I think I can stretch the distance to TWO miles away.

So you sold thousands of names on Namejet. How long had you been in the industry again? I dont think I meet a guy so full of himself since the Uglydork.
I am not defending any questionable actions and I wont be going anywhere regardless of how this thread evolves. I am posting my real experiences as facts for anyone to include in the image they are forming of Oliver as a seller.

In conclusion. Did I tell you guys I started domaining more than 10 years ago and closed almost 7 figures in sales the last 12 months.. I just thought that was extremely relevant information to include. I am also a super lover and stronger than all men combined.

PS
I have been in the industry for more than a decade! I lost my old NP login that was from 1995. But really I am a great guy if you ask me!!

So @promo, your signature indicates that you are selling dirz.com & iyet.com . Both of those domains show Oliver Hoger in the Whois?

Can you explain?

 

[Joe123]

PS
I have been in the industry for more than a decade! I lost my old NP login that was from 1995. But really I am a great guy if you ask me!!

You are truly miraculous!

 

[DNWon]

So @promo, your signature indicates that you are selling dirz.com & iyet.com . Both of those domains show Oliver Hoger in the Whois?

Can you explain?

keep up @jaybuk, this thread is moving fast!
He explains this here a few pages back!:

Bidding on your own names at NameJet...?

 

[promo]

So @promo, your signature indicates that you are selling dirz.com & iyet.com . Both of those domains show Oliver Hoger in the Whois?

Can you explain?

It would be easier if you read the thread. It makes for a lot useless fluff when people ask for information that is readily available in the same thread as they are posting in. But for your convenience here is my post from two pages back:

I am going to post my experiences dealing with Oliver Hoger. He is currently my client as a seller and I have immense trust and loyalty towards him.

I first started dealing with Oliver last summer. Over a period of 6 months I sold him more than 3000x 4L.COM domain names. All deals was conducted swiftly and professionally. Once a price was agreed on he stuck to it, market fluctuations or not. Some of these deals was done via direct wire transfer, where Oliver wired high 5 figure sums directly to my seller.

I subsequently witnessed Oliver sell 100s of these 4L.COM names at a loss, both at 4.CN and at Namejet.

Later I dealt with Oliver as a seller. I sold a large number of 4L.COMs for him here at NP at competitive BIN prices. Oliver always honoured his word, even in the few cases were he received higher offers for names that were promised to my buyers.

My personal experience dealing with Oliver is that of a man of integrity and honesty. I have also meet Oliver in person at the Domaining Europe conference this year and I can assure you he is a down to earth and intelligent guy, whom I can not square with the very serious allegations put forth in this thread.

I have spoken to Oliver about this issue and he will be posting here tonight directly pertaining to the allegations and actions that have seen light.

 

[jaybuk]

It would be easier if you read the thread. It makes for a lot useless fluff when people ask for information that is readily available in the same thread as they are posting in. But for your convenience here is my post from two pages back:

It is indeed hard to keep up. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[xn--v4h.com]

So @promo, your signature indicates that you are selling dirz.com & iyet.com . Both of those domains show Oliver Hoger in the Whois?

Can you explain?

Wow

 

[xn--v4h.com]

It would be easier if you read the thread. It makes for a lot useless fluff when people ask for information that is readily available in the same thread as they are posting in. But for your convenience here is my post from two pages back:

If you're still his client, how do we know you're unbiased since you've a vested interest in him?

 

[promo]

I am certainly not unbiased!. Hence my reason for heading my post with my affiliation to Oliver.

But its the other way around. He is my client.

 

[xn--v4h.com]

I am certainly not unbiased!. Hence my reason for heading my post with my affiliation to Oliver.

But its the other way around. He is my client.

Perhaps it's just me but your opinion of him is rather discounted because just the appearance of such isn't right. That's why people recuse themselves.

 

[pier0]

What did you expect? The facts speak for themselves. They are complicit in these shill bids. They are not going to find any of these major players guilty. Or to impose any significant bans on any of these users. Their posturing to date, has all been about, damage control. Which is a lost cause.

Unless they change their policy allowing Namejet sellers to list third party domains for auctions, there will always be a risk of shill bidding. The best way to reduce it imho is to implement a KYC (know your customer) process for sellers and one for buyers that sign up to the site.

 

[richface]

This probably deserves #CNNiReport

 

[wwwweb]

I am certainly not unbiased!. Hence my reason for heading my post with my affiliation to Oliver.

But its the other way around. He is my client.

You said he would be replying, I haven't seen it yet?

No point turning on each other, I agree, I did a $16K deal with the elder Booth a year back, it went smooth. I am sure many people did domain deals with Adam Dicker that went fine also.

I don't know where these allegations have gone, but I see no reason for HKDN to sit 1 bid under the reserve, one of the biggest people owed an explanation would be Taryn, who if you remember when it went down with Dicker, he was promptly paid, and was happy to move on, even though many smaller domainers were still owed. If the GM had an answer he would have provided it by now, and I am sure an account as large as that has a call in, and wants some answers, and if not they would be seeking compensation.

What is the financial incentive for HKDN to bait the next bid to hit the reserve, and why? Hopefully namejet can answer this today?

 

[wwwweb]

I am certainly not unbiased!. Hence my reason for heading my post with my affiliation to Oliver.

But its the other way around. He is my client.

People tend not to say bad things about clients that provide positive benefit based incentives for their businesses. Hence conflict of interest.

Not to say your not speaking the truth, but there will always be skepticism with your remarks, as your in a conflict position, it is just simply human nature.