question Would you buy a backwards domain?

[Carl Smith]

and what I mean by a backward domain is for example when the domain EpicPatios.com is already taken and is on sale for $2,000...

you then notice that the domain PatiosEpic.com is available, would you registered that domain and try to sell it for half of what EpicPatios.com is worth? Let’s say $1,000?

given the domain PatiosEpic.com doesn’t sound as correct as EpicPatios.com, is there still a market for PatiosEpic.com

Do people buy domains that are backwards like that?

 

[Peak.Domains]

It really depends.

I saw D/i/s/t/a/n/t W/o/r/k/i/n/g in auction here on nP and getting some bids (I think it's still live, go bid, low bin, shoutout to the seller) and that inspired me to grab one that's kind of the backwards version but not quite.

I registered Working/////Distance. I like it because it's a play on "Walking distance" or the phrase "Within walking distance." Distance, to me, implies location moreso than "Distant" which kind of sounds like "My friend was very distant lately, I hope they're okay, I should check on them." (Not trying to disparage any other names, again, go bid! That's just my thought process in choosing -ance over -ant in this case.)

Sometimes it makes sense, sometimes the backwards is a lot worse, and in those cases I think the value of the backwards name is quite a bit less than half. If I was just tossing up a niche site on it or something I'd totally go for PatioEpic is an alternative. I'd consider using it for myself if it saves me a few grand, but I would avoid them as speculation instruments to try to resell. But again, it would be case by case.

 

[HotKey]

No chance - That's like pissing in the wind and thinking about recovering the salt content.

New Gtld's have No motion, Yes one or two will bite (and for good reason)

We've lost our strongest advocate of new gtlds here on NP's ( I quite liked the guy - he was certainly driven) Although mistaken in every post

But let me repeat again New Gtlds have NO SPACE - It's not my choice, it's the markets and the drive for what works. You can believe all you want in whatever you want - No problem with me - Just don't try to lie to this membership about market outcomes or probabilities.

Glad to spend some of my time looking after you all - as always XXX

I was poking you, and didn't expect anything less than a punch in return.

To respond (taking off topic, sry):

Let me be the 2nd strongest advocate, then. And not because of solely vested interests, not how I roll. My interests span a good domain name, full stop. No matter the extension. New G's, they do have a space, and really a space that perfectly fits.

Vested padding happens in any area, just case in point:
https://www.namepros.com/threads/56...mplying-it-cost-at-least-that-amount.1187624/
A pointless post made to just prop up value of the .com extension, when there is no actual sale of the DN for a fixed price. And put into "industry news" no less. These are the type of posts that have padded values year over year to make things worth more than they actually are, to give an impression of sorts. And they have a snowball effect to both investors and end users, where demand is driven by an artificial value.

The problem is in any namespace area though, not just .coms. We need to sell our names, and will plant a seed to inflate a perception that in turn will result in a profit for our investments.

Where so many only want to see the money, I want to see see an internet using awesome DNs. I am proud to visit the domains I have sold, seeing websites put up on a great name. There is such demand for basing a business on .com, it's like it's clouded the obvious: you are what you eat. Granted, I have visited sites with great content using terrible domains, but it really wouldn't take much for them to upgrade to a name that stands out. No need to reverse keywords or the likes just because it's set on a .com.

When I hear things like "it's not my choice, it's the market", to me that's an excuse and not a reason. As investors, we drive the market. To a greater extent, the market only knows what we offer. Same goes for registrars. They've been doing a better job of late, but wish they had done so from the beginning, when new G's first rolled out.

While I doubt to sway any person who invests in DNs solely for profiteering, I understand folks need to make a living, I would like to have a market that is also supported by recognition of quality names, regardless of extension. This eventually gives fuel to the drive, and an awesome destination.

Take it ease.

 

[JD Bloodstone]

Since we are on the topic does anybody know the official legal standing of these word flips? For example, I know that plural names and single names are treated as if they are the same. In other words, the TM holder of Blue Dog would have legal protection of Blue Dogs but how about Dog Blue?

So, funny story about this... well, not funny at the time, but I can look back on it now and find humor in it. But, I was once sent a Cease & Desist letter from the attorneys who represented The Napoleon Hill Foundation because I had registered "thinkandgrowballsDOTcom" and they said that they had trademarked the phrase/term "Think & Grow" which, according to them, gave them dibs on every possible word that came after that phrase/term. I lawyered up and fought them hard, but they came with all their money and power (emails from them were cc'd to over six people) and while my attorney thought I could fight them and win, she advised me to do everything I could to not get sued by them because I didn't have the money or time to fight them. Her exact words were, "They will turn your life upside down with their subpoenas, and, to be totally honest, you can't afford me to help you." So, she advised me to offer them my domain name in return for the right to continue selling my books with the same name. So, what I'm trying to get at is that you can probably get away with any domain name for a while, but if you pop up on their radar and wake the dragon and they come after you you're going to be in for an expensive fight. Plus, they might just file a dispute with your registrar for cyber-squatting in which the registrar may side with them and straight up give it to them without your consent. I had that happen with "bitcoinmoneygramDOTcom". It happened so fast they had control of it within a week.

 

[h2o]

Interesting stories @JD Bloodstone. Thanks for taking the time to share. I guess the bottom line is that it ultimately depends on 1)How deep the pockets of said trademark holder are & 2) (Just as important) How Overzealous they are regarding the registration of domain names similar to their trademark.

In your case, you have the perfect legal right to use that name for a book because it is a separate product & service category than their name. But then again Nissan.com had the perfect legal rights to the name for a computer business but Nissan USA is relentless...

 

[JD Bloodstone]

You're right on the money... and, if you want to talk about overzealous, the Napoleon Hill Foundation actually has a page on their website where they showcase (i.e., trophy case) all the different domains they have successfully challenged (i.e., heads mounted on the wall).

https://www.naphill.org/about/trademarks-copyrights/

There at the very bottom you will see my forfeited domain, the most recent of their conquests.

 

[King]

Unless they are high value keywords, no. They don't make sense, I don't buy.

 

[lock]

I have a few that i see value in. Eg linkadult

 

[BrandEntrance.com]

Some domain word pairs can work in reverse, so long as the reverse format also makes sense. Don't fool yourself though about value, talk of 50% of the primary word pair is day dreaming. more like 2 to 5% and even that will only be for those that make grammatical sense.

example (my niche)
touchscreen beautiful in com a xxx,xxx domain
screentouch nice and salable probably low to mid x,xxx

You are dreaming dude ($xxx,xxx) and that's why it's still for sale. Touchscreen might have been able to sell for that price when they were not mainstream and people searched for that, now so generic that it isn't even part of the equation anymore, term. It can't be trademarked either. That would have given it a valuation like you state. Estibot says $172000 but that is estibot... You probably held on too long.

It is as valuable as ElectronicDevice.com, and hey what do you know, that is available too.

 

[BrandEntrance.com]

We've lost our strongest advocate of new gtlds here on NP's ( I quite liked the guy - he was certainly driven) Although mistaken in every post

What happened to lolwarrior?

 

[BaileyUK]

You are dreaming dude ($xxx,xxx) and that's why it's still for sale. Touchscreen might have been able to sell for that price when they were not mainstream and people searched for that, now so generic that it isn't even part of the equation anymore, term. It can't be trademarked either. That would have given it a valuation like you state. Estibot says $172000 but that is estibot... You probably held on too long.

It is as valuable as ElectronicDevice.com, and hey what do you know, that is available too.

Unfortunately you are thinking like a sit at home domainer and not a commercial enterprise. First, I don't own either domain referenced. Very few device manufacturers of the billions of dollars worth that enter the market (from Airports to all the self service stations you see at every point of your life, not forgetting all the office environments ) are produced by the End-product sellers. They are manufactured by the many specialized 'Touchscreen' makers. Off course you don't see or probably even know of them. But, that's your limitation - not mine. It's a billion dollar market. Google touchscreen manufacturers. The only debate could possible be whether it's Touchscreen dot com or the plural that has the higher value

'Electronic device' is far too much of a generalization. I'm surprised you are unable to distinguish between the two

 

[BaileyUK]

Actually touchscreens (plural) is already a redirect to a very successful company, 25,000 products. You can't help but wonder what it is about domaining that some NP members just can't grasp.

 

[BaileyUK]

The problem is in any namespace area though, not just .coms. We need to sell our names, and will plant a seed to inflate a perception that in turn will result in a profit for our investments.

I think your mixing-up 'Investor/Investments' with an outright Speculator - domainers by nature are Speculators - not Investors.

The belief that Speculations are ever going to be an aid to business growth is totally mistaken. (Basic economics) New tlds are a perfect example of how to get things wrong (from a speculator point of view)

 

[HotKey]

Between Bailey, Mugford, Kate (though mia atm) and few others, thx for keeping us grounded guys. Though sometimes we seem to go in circles, perspectives based on experience rather than opinion is appreciated and acknowledged.

I use your stuff for future decision-making, and though not always agreed it is taken to heart.

 

[BaileyUK]

Thank you, that's very magnanimous of you HotKey. I'm certainly flattered to be mentioned in the same sentence as Kate & Mugford.

Despite my occasional rude over-emphasis to drive home my points, I can assure everyone I have no preset agenda here at NP's - What I will always bite at though is misguided advice, particularly when it is dressed-up as knowledge or expertise.

I still consider everyday as little bit more learnt about domains, even after 22 years plus. I've made loads of mistakes in domain purchases and I tip my hat to those that directed me to a better understanding.

Yep I'm as stubborn as the next guy

 

[BrandEntrance.com]

Unfortunately you are thinking like a sit at home domainer and not a commercial enterprise. First, I don't own either domain referenced. Very few device manufacturers of the billions of dollars worth that enter the market (from Airports to all the self service stations you see at every point of your life, not forgetting all the office environments ) are produced by the End-product sellers. They are manufactured by the many specialized 'Touchscreen' makers. Off course you don't see or probably even know of them. But, that's your limitation - not mine. It's a billion dollar market. Google touchscreen manufacturers. The only debate could possible be whether it's Touchscreen dot com or the plural that has the higher value

'Electronic device' is far too much of a generalization. I'm surprised you are unable to distinguish between the two

Tell me when the name sells... oh all knowing, who knows more about all things than us other... mere humans... even what we are thinking.

 

[BaileyUK]

I actually read that as a compliment. As a rule I let my sales do my talking. Sorry that you feel so bitter that I should dare to reply to your errors.

Sent with Love - From a distance of course

 

[DoughMayne]

ChristmasMerry.com

 

[Chris Hydrick]

I know we're talking about reverse keyword domains here,

just wanted to mention one of my favorite domains (not owned by me, nor do I know who the owner is)

sdrawkcab.com has been registered since 2003 according to WHOIS.

Then there are domains that have dual reverse form purpose such as, BlockCheese VS CheeseBlock.

Prior to brandables and blockchain, I'm not sure what the value of BlockCheese would have been, whereas CheeseBlock is the actual cheese form. I guess even this is subjective.

BB has PhoneSmart.com (reverse of smart phone) and FightingBull.com (reverse of bull fighting) listed at $29k
HD has RaiserFund.com listed at $2,500

Though, something I wonder about reverse keyword domains, is even if not the common syntax, could/would there still be strong SEO value, provided related content garnishes positive site engagement metrics.

For instance, FaceBook.com is Alexa's #4 ranked site as of now.

BookFace.com is Alexa's #1,601,476 ranked site as of now. With a #270k USA Alexa rank. And the site appears to be developed.

So, I think something to be aware of, is if the proper, or most common syntax of your keywords is developed, then your development / use options might be limited to the use of the already developed, and/or possible reverse form trademarked name. Not legal advice, do your own diligence.

 

[ThatNameGuy]

and what I mean by a backward domain is for example when the domain EpicPatios.com is already taken and is on sale for $2,000...

you then notice that the domain PatiosEpic.com is available, would you registered that domain and try to sell it for half of what EpicPatios.com is worth? Let’s say $1,000?

given the domain PatiosEpic.com doesn’t sound as correct as EpicPatios.com, is there still a market for PatiosEpic.com

Do people buy domains that are backwards like that?

It's timely that you would bring this topic up now. I followed this thread since you started it 04/26 and just a few hours ago I got an "inquiry" for a domain DriveinSports, and before i responded i checked to see if the reverse (backward domain), or SportsDrivein was available? Ironically I own both now because I think they're practically equivalents. Regardless of whether i sell either or both, I just wanted to provide an example of how easy it is to loose a potential buyer due to the reverse/backward affect

Thanks for your post Carl....it was very timely