.info Why do all deleting .info domains end up with one company?

[jimberan]

I am confused and not sure if I am missing something here.

I have a list of .info domains that I have been trying to catch on the drop and each and every single one of them ended up with pocketdomain.com which is infact enom. I backordered all those domains through snapnames and pool but never did they succeed. Is there somewhere else that I should be placing backorders because this is starting to pi%ss me off big time. How the heck can one outfit grab every single domain I tried to get.

This is really Bullshi#. I am sure somone will tell me again to just accept it but this is not fair and this must be a violation of some law. This is an outright monopoly and leaves us with 0 % change to compete.

I will include a list of names below so that you can check for yourself. They all deleted recently and all owned by the same people now.

key.info
rif.info
cps.info
pnx.info
eee.info
request.info
great.info
important.info
cuc.info
irw.info
fur.info
sig.info

Is there anyone who had an idea or advice on what to do with this. Why let them grab all the profits? Come on guys, lets do something about this!

 

[kampkrusty]

i'd give them a week, if you whoisd em, then a script probably took those names and enom bought them. they usually drop em in a week or two

 

[jimberan]

Thats the thing though, enom's parent company is in the business of owning domains and making money of them from ads. I dont think they will be dropping and some dropped weeks ago and they havent released them.

 

[-db-]

More interesting still... eNom doesn't even offer .INFO with their public drop service.

 

[matt_bodis]

More interesting still... eNom doesn't even offer .INFO with their public drop service.

They must see it as a good investment then, and take it for themselves. I'm guessing internet police will start around year 2020.

 

[-db-]

Well, maybe they are getting ready to offer .INFO with their ClubDrop service, and they are just testing a new script or connection, and it's REALLY good. Hehe!

 

[harpo]

wow those are some really good ones, i see why it hurts so much,
it must be an inside job,
If you worked at enom or was looking after the drop section i think we all would try to snap those cookies up too.
its interesting to see who rules the drop space on different ext

 

[creekway]

Pocketdomain seems to always get the good .infos and they do not drop them. This has been going on for many months and yes they seem to be catchers for enom who is now in the business of owning domains, not just registering them for other people. They are not testing anything and they are building quite a portfolio. One of the first names I really noticed them catching is elk.info back in May, but I think I remember this happening before then.

 

[jimberan]

Enom and pocketdomains are the same companie. Snapnames is not able to catch them nor is pool. Seems more likely to me that these domains are being caught by enom uncontested or something as they get everything. If they were simply good they could also catch every good .com or .net which is dropping but they dont do that however.

This just sickens me really. Atleast if it went to an auction and I got outbid then ok. Fair is fair, the other side was willing to pay more for the domain. But in this way we are completely cut out of the equation and dont have any change of purchasing the domain even if we want to pay 1000 for it. This is an unfair competitive advantage that they have and I am sure these guys will end up facing charges for this as it simply is in someway prearranged with the other players and certainly is illegal. This is like a cartel which cuts up the pie and ensures that the few companies get everything and normal folks like us have no change whatsoever. Is there any lawyer on this forum who could shed some light on possible options that we have.

 

[Lasher]

Snapnames does catch a handful, but you are right, almost all good .info drops are picked up by PocketDomains. Dropcatching companies have invested a lot of time and research analyzing Verisign's drop patterns and can pretty much pinpoint to within milliseconds when a domain will drop. My guess is that PocketDomains is the only company that has seriously done this with .info and they are now reaping the rewards. Let me be naive and believe that's all it is ...

 

[floatingworld]

Snapnames does catch a handful, but you are right, almost all good .info drops are picked up by PocketDomains. Dropcatching companies have invested a lot of time and research analyzing Verisign's drop patterns and can pretty much pinpoint to within milliseconds when a domain will drop. My guess is that PocketDomains is the only company that has seriously done this with .info and they are now reaping the rewards. Let me be naive and believe that's all it is ...

I think that is the nub of it. The 'registrar' is using a an active script and the domainer is using a registrar with an inferior script. No contest. May the best script win!

 

[Marcvs]

ya enom stole a couple of my registerfly domains; they basically refused to reneew them; even when i caled them and complained!

 

[jimberan]

I guess the only way left is to get the domains before they drop. Contact the owners before the domain deletes and hope that they dont end up renewing the domain or that they will ask for some insane amount. I know that some of you do this and that it can work. Thing is though that it becomes a full time job then rather then a hobby. I liked this domain business because of the whole idea of the drop. Hoping that you find a domain that no one else spotted or using a catch service that was better then some one elses. How more wrong could I have been? There is no game as the stadium is permanently locked for private players.

 

[Carlton]

Just found this thread and had started a very similar discussion on another forum. Looks like a good number of people have been tracking this very issue. Now, if ICANN will just get in gear. While not clearly "illegal", it is arguably a violation of their registrar agreement with ICANN.

Directly from the ICANN Registrar Accreditation Agreement ...

3.7.9 Registrar shall abide by any ICANN adopted specifications or policies prohibiting or restricting warehousing of or speculation in domain names by registrars.

Also ...

Topics for New and Revised Specifications and Policies:

4.2.5 prohibitions on warehousing of or speculation in domain names by registries or registrars

This addresses a "crossing of the line" that registries and registrars should not be engaging in. Extremely high quality names are being kept from the public as registrars build their own portfolios using their ICANN accreditation as a pass key through the back door.

 

[Jo]

Damn, this is why Pool couldn't catch those names. I had backordered some of those too!

 

[EbookLover]

I guess the only way left is to get the domains before they drop. Contact the owners before the domain deletes and hope that they dont end up renewing the domain or that they will ask for some insane amount. I know that some of you do this and that it can work. Thing is though that it becomes a full time job then rather then a hobby. I liked this domain business because of the whole idea of the drop. Hoping that you find a domain that no one else spotted or using a catch service that was better then some one elses. How more wrong could I have been? There is no game as the stadium is permanently locked for private players.

That's exactly what I was gonna post. So true.

I think, for the average person anymore, it is best to not focus your time on developing domains.

ya enom stole a couple of my registerfly domains; they basically refused to reneew them; even when i caled them and complained!

That's completely wrong and if you have the money you should get a lawyer take them to court, even if it's not cost effective to do so. SOmething needs to be done about this.

Pocketdomain seems to always get the good .infos and they do not drop them. This has been going on for many months and yes they seem to be catchers for enom who is now in the business of owning domains, not just registering them for other people. They are not testing anything and they are building quite a portfolio. One of the first names I really noticed them catching is elk.info back in May, but I think I remember this happening before then.

I think it really is beyond "not fair" that the big companies can snatch domains up before anyone else can because they hae a better script or whatever.

Now, could you imagine if offline real estate operated like this. If only a few investors were able to buy homes and pick the ones they wanted to keep? It would never happen. Domains are online real estate yet this is allowed to happen. Sure, it may be "fixed" someday, but the fact that it is actually happenning at all is a shame and it needs to be put to an end very soon.

 

[Marcvs]

i knew i couldnt win the court case so im not trying and at the moment i dont have the excess cash to hire a good lawyer!

 

[MinionDH]

After losing a few backorders to PocketDomain, and now reading this thread, I am at a loss for words. How can something that is so clearly illegal be allowed to go on? We really need to work together, possibly get some outside help, and get to the bottom of this. I've gone ahead and done a bit of research into this matter and this is what I've discovered:

Fur.info is a recent backorder I lost to PocketDomain. I checked whois on Fur.info and found the following address:

PocketDomain.com
2141 Wisconsin Ave Suite C-2
Washington DC 20007

This also happens to be the address of:

Greenberg & Lieberman
2141 Wisconsin Ave Suite C-2
Washington, DC 20007
(202) 625-7000
(202) 625-7002
http://www.aplegal.com/

Greenberg & Lieberman, LLC is an Intellectual Property Law Firm, specializing in Patents, Trademarks, Copyrights and Internet Law. There is a lot of interesting information about this company on the web. Go ahead and google: Greenberg & Lieberman, domain (you'll get about 384,000 results). Here are a few interesting pages I found:

On 01/12/2005 Stephen Lieberman was on The Domain Masters Radio Show with host Monte Cahn:
http://www.moniker.com/domain-masters/ep-2005-01-12/index.jsp

They have an about page on DNJournal.com:
http://www.dnjournal.com/legal/greenberg_lieberman.htm

The owner has also written several domain related articles:
http://www.dnjournal.com/legal/sl_domains_trademarks.htm
http://www.aplegal.com/cases/article1.html
http://www.aplegal.com/cases/article2.html

They are a member of the Better Business Bureau:
http://www.dc.bbb.org/report.html?compid=W1293

I'm not saying Greenberg & Lieberman is behind all of this, they may just represent PocketDomain. But we won't know for sure unless we keep digging for new information.

 

[Matrix1976]

Even though i am not a big fan of .info, this sort of action by a registrar just makes me sick! The way i see it, its like a slap in the face to all their drop customers.

They built their company in large part 'with us' and now, they prevent us 'their clients' from a fair chance at these domains...After hearing this, i am 'very tempted' to transfer my remaining (drop caught) portfolio with them to another of my prefered registrars...

:yell:


.

 

[Dave_Z]

This addresses a "crossing of the line" that registries and registrars should not be engaging in. Extremely high quality names are being kept from the public as registrars build their own portfolios using their ICANN accreditation as a pass key through the back door.

Just a couple of catches to that:

http://icann.org/meetings/marrakech/captioning-dn-27jun06.htm

>>CHUCK GOMES: I am Chuck Gomes with VeriSign, and I'm really not advocating any particular position. But I think that a correction I believe is necessary with regard to the R or RAA, Sarah, that you mentioned.
ICANN does allow for the development of a policy on warehousing names, and the language you are referring to I believe references that. But to my knowledge, there has never been any policy developed with regard to that. That's just a point that can be checked.

Registrars like enom can always setup an LLC (or something similar) and then
register domain names via that "separate" entity.

Instead of complaining to ICANN, here's some info that might be of interest to
you (which I picked up in another forum):

http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/domainname/index.html

OFFICIALS TO CONTACT

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE

Carlos M. Gutierrez
U.S. Secretary of Commerce

Secretary Carlos M. Gutierrez
Office of the Secretary
Room 5516
U.S. Department of Commerce
14th & Constitution Ave. NW
Washington, DC 20230

Phone: 202-482-2000
Email: CGutierrez AT doc.gov

NATIONAL TELECOMMUNICATIONS & INFORMATION ASSOCIATION

John M. R. Kneuer
Acting Assistant Secretary of Commerce for Communications and Information

Herbert C. Hoover Building (HCHB)
U.S. Department of Commerce / NTIA
1401 Constitution Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20230

NTIA/ITS
U.S. Department of Commerce
325 Broadway
Boulder, Colorado 80305-3328

Office of the Assistant Secretary
Phone: (202) 482-1830
FAX: (202) 501-0536
Email: jkneuer AT ntia.doc.gov

Not sure which mailing address to use!

U.S. HOUSE COMMERCE COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND COMMERCE
* SUBCOMMITTEE ON TELECOMMUNICATIONS AND THE INTERNET

MAJORITY (Republicans)
Rayburn House Office Building 2125
Phone: 202-225-2927

Fred Upton (R - Michigan) - Voting Record
Chairman
* Running for reelection
* Opposed Network Neutrality
Phone: 202-225-3761
Fax: 202-225-4986
Contact: http://www.house.gov/writerep/

Michael Bilirakis (R - Florida) - Voting Record
* NOT running for reelection (his son is running for his seat)
* Opposed Network Neutrality
Phone: 202-225-5755
Fax: 202-225-4085
Contact: http://www.house.gov/writerep/

Cliff Stearns (R - Florida) - Voting Record
* Opposed Network Neutrality
Phone: 202-225-5744
Fax: 202-225-3973
Contact: http://www.house.gov/writerep/

Paul E. Gillmor (R - Ohio) - Voting Record
* Running for reelection
* Opposed Network Neutrality
Phone: 202-225-6405
Fax: 202-225-1985
Contact: http://www.house.gov/gillmor/mail/legmail1n.shtml


Edward Whitfield (R - Kentucky) - Voting Record
* Opposed Network Neutrality
Phone: 202-225-3115
Fax: 202-225-3547
Contact: http://whitfield.house.gov/contact/index.shtml

Barbara Cubin (R - Wyoming) - Voting Record
* Opposed Network Neutrality
Phone: 202-225-2311
Fax: 202-225-3057
Contact: http://www.house.gov/cubin/zip_auth.html

John Shimkus (R - Illinois) - Voting Record
* Opposed Network Neutrality
Phone: 202-225-5271
Fax: 202-225-5880
Contact: http://www.house.gov/shimkus/emailme.shtml

Heather A. Wilson (R - New Mexico) - Voting Record
* Running for reelection in a hotly contested race
* Supported Network Neutrality
Phone: 202-225-6316
Fax: 202-225-4975
Contact: http://wilson.house.gov/Contact.asp

Charles W. "Chip" Pickering (R - Mississippi) - Voting Reocrd
* Opposed Network Neutrality
Phone: 202-225-5031
Fax: 202-225-5797
Contact: http://www.house.gov/pickering/contact/

Vito Fossella (R - New York) - Voting Record
Phone: 202-225-3371
Fax: 202-226-1272
Contact: http://www.house.gov/fossella/email/

http://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/committees/one_item_and_teasers/committee_hearings.htm

The members of this committee are:
Stevens, Ted (AK) , Chairman
McCain, John (AZ)
Burns, Conrad (MT)
Lott, Trent (MS)
Hutchison, Kay (TX)
Snowe, Olympia (ME)
Smith, Gordon (OR)
Ensign, John (NV)
Allen, George (VA)
Sununu, John (NH)
DeMint, James (SC)
Vitter, David (LA)
Inouye, Daniel (HI), Ranking Member
Rockefeller, Jay (WV)
Kerry, John (MA)
Dorgan, Byron (ND)
Boxer, Barbara (CA)
Nelson, Bill (FL)
Cantwell, Maria (WA)
Lautenberg, Frank (NJ)
Nelson, E. (NE)
Pryor, Mark (AR)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060920...ypt2tXwMjtBAF;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ

The U.S. Commerce Department said Wednesday it will extend its oversight of the California organization that handles domain name policies, while finding ways to improve the group's accountability and transparency.

John Kneuer, the department's acting assistant secretary for communications and information, said the government's current agreement with the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers works and should continue.

Commerce plans to renew a memorandum of understanding with ICANN, but it will likely add provisions designed to address complaints that the group is sometimes too secret and makes decisions that don't reflect the Internet community at large, Kneuer said.

Hmmm, is this something DNOA can address, perhaps?

 

[cursal]

There is no game as the stadium is permanently locked for private players.

That is a scary thought " permanently "

It does seem some unfair play is at work.

 

[yumi]

It's so difficult to backorder one nice .info.
Why PocketDomain caught so many?

 

[Carlton]

Kiss these goodbye too ...

Sarasota.info
Promo.info
SantaCruz.info

... now in the pocket of PocketDomain/Enom

:td:

 

[jimberan]

As some of you might know I am new to this domain biz so I dont have a heck of a lot contacts yet in this industry. I did however try contacting the ombudsman of Icann and he has replied very quickly. It seems he is actually trying to assist me with this and to help me find out where to press official charges against the parties involved as I am still convinced that there must be some type of monopoly/antitrust or some other unfair competition laws against the situation where we find ourselves in. At first he wasnt sure if this should involve Icann as he said it was an issue between me and a registrar. I replied to him that if I was them I would grab all the domains as well but the point is that someone should supervise the actions of the registrars and stop them and penalize them when needed. I also told him that the only party that seems to be in a possition to do is is Icann as Icann is the one handing out accrediation so that these guys can open up shop. Seems that I hit some valid points and investigation will most likely be started now as this is too much now. We are all getting screwed over and also the general public. Guys like enom dont develop any of the domains and just have parking pages. It shouldnt be that great domains which could be used by companies or people to make great websites that add quality to the web are in mass taken by a company that has no plan to do anything with them. Its like buying a city block in Manhattan and then just leaving everything empty and letting the area get run down. This is what happens with all these great domains.

Seems that snapnames doesnt like the situation not the publication of the information. I have been contacted by senior management who seem to want to fix this issue with the .info domains.

 

[Carlton]

... I also told him that the only party that seems to be in a possition to do is is Icann as Icann is the one handing out accrediation so that these guys can open up shop. Seems that I hit some valid points ...

Nice going. Your quote above is the point of leverage ... targeting concerns to ICANN as they are the ones who provide accreditation as you point out. Anyone can file a complaint at InterNIC, which isn't bad. But this is not a mere registrant to registrar misunderstanding (that would be addressed thru an InterNIC complaint form). This is behavior that appears to go against the spirit of the ICANN registrar accreditation agreement ... thus ICANN must be directly involved.

Likely, the only way that ICANN will address this issue is for public discussion and public criticism to begin in mass. A looming question is whether ICANN are any longer objective as they are receiving substantial revenue via these larger registrars. So do ICANN exist as an impartial govening body (willing to enforce boundaries) or are they also in the hip pocket ($$$) of the larger registrars? This ties into the abyssmal biz/info/org contract fiasco currently under review in which ICANN were going to allow registries to determine the price of domain registration and renewals - with no defined price caps!

I think this thread is a good starting point for seeing how many domainers, webmasters, businesses, etc. are moved to action. There is no question in my mind that the siphoning off of quality names is increasing dramatically. And I want to hear exactly what ICANN have to say about that. Do ICANN provide accreditation for registrars to gain competitive advantage over customers ... or provide accreditation in order to serve their customers.

One would assume that ICANN are against speculation and warehousing by registrars and registries. Why else have this language in the registrar agreement...

3.7.9 Registrar shall abide by any ICANN adopted specifications or policies prohibiting or restricting warehousing of or speculation in domain names by registrars.