Where Do We Stand With This Domain Dispute?

[EViS]

We purchased a .co.uk domain for a new business which we started up in October 2012. Exactly 22 days later, the .com TLD of this domain was purchased by this company (according to WhoIs):

Association, OnNowTV (dot com) (at) cox (dot net)
4101 NW 143 STREET
OKLAHOMA CITY, OK 73134
US
+1.4054101837

They have simply put up a DomainSponsor-powered page.

The domain isn't exactly one which should be 'snapped up' as it consists of three words which are hardly popular keywords and totalling 17 characters. This is the name of our business, but it is not a trademark.

We had every intention of purchasing the .com domain, and to be fair I'm not sure why we didn't do it at the time of purchasing the .co.uk variant.

Now, where do we stand on getting the .com domain into our own hands. Are we at the mercy of paying an extortionate fee for it? Or do we have any legal standing in that this company have purchased the domain very soon after we did purely to profit out of it?

 

[DU]

More or less what you say.

If you setup a company (and made an announcement) and can prove the registration was in bad faith you may have some recourse but it wouldnt be cheap and you would struggle to prove it.

Depending on the name it may or may not be worth pursuing. Not owning the .com may not be that big a deal if you're mostly a .co.uk type of company.

Not knowing the name or circumstance makes this answer a guessing game. Extortion is a valid business model for some. If you're new enough approach them for sale using a fairly generic email and not from your business email and don't mention that you own the .co.uk. Don't give them much information.

 

[lincolndsp]

inquire if you can buy it?
is it that difficult?

 

[Kate]

We had every intention of purchasing the .com domain, and to be fair I'm not sure why we didn't do it at the time of purchasing the .co.uk variant.

Yeah. One possibility is to wait until next year to see if the name is renewed.

 

[EViS]

If you're new enough approach them for sale using a fairly generic email and not from your business email and don't mention that you own the .co.uk. Don't give them much information.

I would be amazed if don't they figure out in an instance that we own the .co.uk name. It's such a specific name of our company name!

Our hesitation in contacting them is that if they do give us an absurd price and we refuse, they will never let the domain expire and will hope that our business will grow sufficiently for us to eventually cave in.

But contacting them now, only a few weeks after they had purchased the domain could mean a lower asking price...

 

[FX]

your best bet is to contact them and ask if the domain is for sale...and if so at what price ...don't mention your a business trading on the .co.uk.

and buy it as low as you can...if you mention your a business - there gonna jack the price up ten folds ..play it cool and I'm sure they will sell...everyone's a winner then..they get a sale you get a domain no disputes no hassle.

good luck

 

[DU]

But contacting them now, only a few weeks after they had purchased the domain could mean a lower asking price...

Time doesn't matter if it's a domainer. Some will depend on whether the name is "fresh" or not. Do a whois check at who.is or whois.sc and you will see the first registration date.
If it's 2012 then you may be right.

You also need to assess the name, location of the owner (tough if behind privacy) but that tells you something about their motivation.

If the name has no real purpose outside of your company name I would wait for it to drop next year which it may do if there is no traffic. Just don't visit it too often and never click on ads there. Remember though: They may have a legitimate purpose thought for the name. If that's the case, then you need to accept that also.

It is what it is.

As far as tactics go: either approach them from a non co.uk email and be covert (which may annoy them) or just be totally honest and offer a "humbling" amount (which may make them dig their heels in).

If you have the co.uk and you're a real business you won't lose too much traffic to the .com and most people will find you.

My favorite example is Guardian.

I want to read the newspaper. Guardian.co.uk works, GuardianNews.com works but Guardian.com is a totally different company.

If it was me: Option 1
I thought I would write this up because I'm interested in what people think. I'd be interested to know if my proposed method is crazy or makes sense.

I'd approach them fairly honestly. Tell them you're interested.. then say that your partners have agreed to offer them something that's a profit (say $500) that's remaining from from your end of year discretionary funds/ budgeting. (This will depend in part on your business - if you're small vs multinational vs just received publicity etc.)

Don't give a lot of details beyond that.

If they come back with $40,000 just tell them you're not interested and be polite and then never contact them again - especially if you ARE their only option.

If they come back with $1500 then they are looking at it from a "cheaper to acquire than go dispute" approach. Just offer the $500 again and wait a couple of weeks. Maybe up it a little.

Then if they refuse walk away. My feeling is that that with a good co.uk you don't need the .com.

If it was me: Option 2
File the trademark and set first use in commerce before the reg date if that's the case.
Then re-assess in a year or two where I am.


As for the Guardian? I go to Grauniad.com which is their "Private Eye" nickname. You always have the same option of funny branding later on. In ads just emphasize the co.uk.

None of this advice is necessarily any good.

 

[alien51]

We purchased a .co.uk domain for a new business which we started up in October 2012. Exactly 22 days later, the .com TLD of this domain was purchased by this company

22 days, is long enough to say it could be just a coincidence. You had 3 weeks to freely reg the .COM, but you didn't. I think it is fair game for anyone to reg it.

It's like a $20-dollar bill being kicked around on the sidewalk. If nobody is trying to pick it up, i'll pick it up and put it in my wallet.

The domain isn't exactly one which should be 'snapped up' as it consists of three words which are hardly popular keywords and totalling 17 characters.

If you scan the thousands of domains dropping every single day, you will not believe the ridiculous domain names people "snap up" for whatever reason.

Since you said the domain you own "consists of three words", they are still "words". You can never second-guess that they are not popular to someone else.

Now, where do we stand on getting the .com domain into our own hands. Are we at the mercy of paying an extortionate fee for it?

"Extortion" can be a subjective term when it comes to domains.

If you had the chance to reg the domain for just 10 bucks, but now you are being asked to pay for $2,500... you "may" think about it as extortion. Some people call it "domaining". But if you look at the scrolling ticker tape at the top of this webpage in Namepros, you can get an idea what is the "ballpark" figure for domains sold in the aftermarket.

Or do we have any legal standing in that this company have purchased the domain very soon after we did purely to profit out of it?

Your argument is hard to prove. Unless your company and your products are arguably popular around the world.

 

[carob]

Do you need the name?

Or are you just annoyed you forgot to register it?

I would ignore them and in a year they will drop it if they see no interest from you, if it is as specific a name as you say.

If you do think someone might want to start a genuine, competing business on the name then this would need more thought. One thing you may need to do is register a trademark for your company name.

 

[NetOctave]

Just get an attorney and send a C&D letter. Or just get it typed yourself and send it to the person. If its some stupid beginner trying to squat on the name, then they will let it go.
Don't offer to buy the name if you think the name is not generic.

If the name is very generic, then just focus on your business and forget the .com. I will tell you, its not a big deal if you don't own the .com (even though many other domainers will tell you differently).
There are many businesses (small and big) that are running entirely on the gtlds (.de, .co.uk, .co.nz, .in etc) and they are successful.

 

[mis_chiff]

We purchased a .co.uk domain for a new business which we started up in October 2012. Exactly 22 days later, the .com TLD of this domain was purchased by this company (according to WhoIs):



They have simply put up a DomainSponsor-powered page.

The domain isn't exactly one which should be 'snapped up' as it consists of three words which are hardly popular keywords and totalling 17 characters. This is the name of our business, but it is not a trademark.

We had every intention of purchasing the .com domain, and to be fair I'm not sure why we didn't do it at the time of purchasing the .co.uk variant.

Now, where do we stand on getting the .com domain into our own hands. Are we at the mercy of paying an extortionate fee for it? Or do we have any legal standing in that this company have purchased the domain very soon after we did purely to profit out of it?

Trademark? Registered Business [1st use in Commerce etc]?
no = fair game!

Not sure why you think it should be yours, you have taken no steps
to protect it.

Did you actually want it, or just now cause they have it?

22 days and you "don't know why the .com wasn't regged"

Make an offer or get a lawyer.

and "To be fair" don't be surprised if they get a lawyer first and come after you.

 

[DU]

Not sure why you think it should be yours..

Because it makes sense that your exact name will be yours. It's the "one away" theory that Kate talked about once.

Everyone thinks a domainer is one thing between them and their name - when in reality it is likely 100s of domainers and even 10s of businesses. It's surprising but 3 words that make sense for someone in the UK would likely make sense to someone in the US, Africa, Australia.... but it's still OUR name.

You'd think everyone could own FirstNameLastName.com - what's shocking is that for most people that was taken in 1999 Still means that I deserve it

Or was that a rhetorical question?

 

[alien51]

If the name has no real purpose outside of your company name I would wait for it to drop next year which it may do if there is no traffic.

That only happens for soldier-of-fortune type domainers. They have little patience.

But even Reberry has a drop time average of like 3-5 years.

Presuming of course, that it was snapped up by a domainer in the first place.

My favorite example is Guardian.

I want to read the newspaper. Guardian.co.uk works, GuardianNews.com works but Guardian.com is a totally different company.

I think the nature of the content is a significant factor, on your example. If it wasn't a newspaper website, perhaps Google algo would have looked at it in a different value.

I currently own a generic .COM which ranks on top of all search engines for that generic keyword, eventhough it's just a mini. I have several legit competitors using exactly the same generic but on a .NET and ccTLDs, but surprisingly they have been unable to knock me out of the top, despite all the Pandas and the Penguins.

And besides, if you are an end-user trying to establish a "Brand", seeing competitors using exactly the same brand as yours, would be confusing to your customers. You lose part of your branding identity. That's exactly the reason why end-users try to "secure" all extensions (or maybe just the .NET and .ORG) by doing defensive regs.

If it was me: Option 2
File the trademark and set first use in commerce before the reg date if that's the case.
Then re-assess in a year or two where I am.

From the wipos i've seen in the past, that approach only works if you can prove a motive of cybersquatting, and/or bad faith usage. In essence, you are recommending to do a Reverse Hijacking of the domain.

 

[stingrae]

I'd wait until 10 months from now and then approach the buyer. Nothing like staring down renewals on crappy domains to motivate them to make a deal.

 

[DU]

From the wipos i've seen in the past, that approach only works if you can prove a motive of cybersquatting, and/or bad faith usage. In essence, you are recommending to do a Reverse Hijacking of the domain.

I said file a TM using the first commerce date and re-assess. I didn't say file a WIPO or UDRP or go to court.

The point was that my priority would be to establish MY firm completely with protection in the UK market.

Re-assess may be - I really need the .COM or I'm doing fine with the .co.uk or it could be that the .com is fully developed site non-competing (Guardian.co.uk vs Guardian.com) in which case it's all irrelevant and a non-issue.

---------- Post added at 08:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:22 PM ----------

And besides, if you are an end-user trying to establish a "Brand", seeing competitors using exactly the same brand as yours, would be confusing to your customers. You lose part of your branding identity. That's exactly the reason why end-users try to "secure" all extensions (or maybe just the .NET and .ORG) by doing defensive regs.

I think it's different with ccTLD and those sold as gTLD

I see this with .COM/.NET/.ORG
I see this with .TV and TV.com
I see this with .ME and me.com

I don't think branding is a huge issue with CO.UK which functions well as a standalone. As do .de, .it etc.

It really depends on the business. To me it makes less sense when a UK company is on a .COM unless it's region agnostic. Much like I don't understand nonUSCity.com

 

[alien51]

I said file a TM using the first commerce date and re-assess. I didn't say file a WIPO or UDRP or go to court.

Yes, but you cannot deny that doing so will be one step closer to make a solid case to reverse hijack that 'pesky' domainer in the future.

The Dark Side is irresistible.

I don't think branding is a huge issue with CO.UK which functions well as a standalone. As do .de, .it etc.

It really depends on the business. To me it makes less sense when a UK company is on a .COM unless it's region agnostic. Much like I don't understand nonUSCity.com

I don't know what other end-users think.

But in my view, evenif i live in UK and own the .co.uk domain, but Google search returns the .COM sitting just 1 line below mine, it still is a confusion issue.... especially if i am not as popular as the Guardian.

Maybe domainers don't rank well, but it can be an issue if the .COM is taken over by a legit.

There are many other generic domains that are not really as popular/heavy traffic like Guardian. If you trim down the numbers, it becomes a head-to-head competition. And that's a serious nuisance.