question What would you do in this case? Story on one issue that involves domain sale, transfer, two registrars, privacy, etc.

[infosec3]

This is about a domain name I have registered at registrar A. Several months ago, I sold that domain at auction on the sale platform of registrar B. Not a big sale, but I have to honor it. Registrar B asked me to transfer the name to them so they can give it to the auction winner. I attempted transfer, but registrar B gives me an error message, stating the domain is not eligible for transfer. I was surprised, because this name is about 16 months old (so, no 60-day lock) and it has been in my account with registrar A since I hand-registered it. In addition, the name is unlocked. There is no reason why the domain should not be eligible for transfer.

I called registrar B to ask what the issue is. They stated they had no idea and that I should contact registrar A (where the domain is registered) to ask them. So, I contact registrar A. They state that everything is fine with the domain and that it is ready for transfer, that registrar B is the problem. I call registrar B again. The agent I speak to, again, has no idea why this is happening, so he puts me on hold a few times to consult with others and promises that he has escalated the issue; that I will be contacted. However, many days pass and no one contacts me.

I call registrar B again. This time, a more helpful agent seems to be very eager to resolve the matter. Puts me on hold a few times and then tells me that the issue is that the domain name is under privacy, that in order to transfer it, I need to remove privacy. But I assure the agent that my account with registrar A says privacy is OFF. However, I check Whois and it shows under privacy. So, I contact registrar A again and ask them to remove that Whois privacy, which I never asked for or ordered.

After contacting registrar A, they send me a message stating they were changing the DNS for the domain and that it might take a few hours. Days pass and the name is still under privacy. I contact registrar A again. They acknowledge the contact and say that they are working on the issue and then write to me again a day or two later saying there is nothing they can do, that even with privacy, registrar B should let me start the transfer.

I responded to registrar A's message asking them why am I under compulsion to have that domain under privacy. A few days have passed and they have not answered.

So, months have passed since I sold this domain and these two registrars have been playing ping pong with me. I am considering now what my options are.

What would you do in this situation? Thanks for reading and my appreciation for your response.

 

[infosec3]

UPDATE

Registrar A is SAV
Registrar B is Network Solutions

SAV has responded today basically stating that they can’t remove the Whois privacy because by default they are the registrant, and my information is not sent to the registry (SAV’s information is…) and they directed me to their Terms of Service:

“You explicitly authorize us to act as your ‘Designated Agent’”

So, either Network Solutions accepts it with privacy or the transfer won’t happen.

This may mean I am losing the sale, which doesn’t hurt much financially, because it’s a little bit of money, but the frustration transcends the financial aspect of the issue.

This may also put my seller account with NameJet (Network Solutions) at risk, since I don’t know if they will accept any other submissions from me.

Imagine if this was a solid sale, losing thousands…

Absolutely ridiculous.

 

[infosec3]

UPDATE: This issue keeps getting stranger. Now, the domain has been transferred out without my permission.

A few days ago, I received a message from SAV stating that a transfer out to another registrar had been initiated. I immediately sent a message to SAV telling them that I had not initiated a transfer. I also went to my account and REJECTED the transfer that had been initiated.

In spite of that, I check my account today and see that the domain is no longer in my possession. I check Whois and see the domain is at GoDaddy, with privacy.

I have contacted SAV again today and I am waiting for a response.

 

[infosec3]

I'm not even sure what to say at this point. I am doing my best to remain cool about it. Given the situation, now the domain will be locked for 60 days. I will reach out to Network Solutions to see if they can take it as a GoDaddy push. If not, I guess I am stock again. In my 13 years of domain investing, I have never dedicated so much time and energy to a single transaction.

 

[infosec3]

Basically they are saying they can't change whois status?

My exact request to them on my last communication was: "Can you redact the Whois information for the domain so it can show my information, because it is now redacted for privacy, which I never opted to. Why am I under compulsion to have privacy on this domain?" Their response basically says there is nothing they can do, that what they do by adding their details is done to protect registrants, because that way registrants can't make changes to the Whois information at the registry level, which triggers 60-day locks. So, the last paragraph of their latest message to me can be summarized as we are doing this for your on own good. You figure...

 

[Sutruk]

Have you done other transfers, lately, to Network Solutions? If yes, how did they work?

Have you done other transfers, lately, from Sav to another registrar? If yes, how did they work?

Maybe you can find the answer for yourself by answering those questions, to guess who is failing in your domain transfer.

 

[HotKey]

My exact request to them on my last communication was: "Can you redact the Whois information for the domain so it can show my information, because it is now redacted for privacy, which I never opted to. Why am I under compulsion to have privacy on this domain?" Their response basically says there is nothing they can do, that what they do by adding their details is done to protect registrants, because that way registrants can't make changes to the Whois information at the registry level, which triggers 60-day locks. So, the last paragraph of their latest message to me can be summarized as we are doing this for your on own good. You figure...

From a few of the responses on here, I take it having privacy ON isn't a hinderance to transferring domains for most registrars now. I have just always removed it from a force of habit, because it makes it simpler for them to validate ownership even though a transfer auth code is provided.

I think some registrars may still consider an update to your domain's contact the same as a fresh hand reg or recent transfer and thus put a 60-day hold on the domain. That could be part of the case here, regardless @Sav.com is still mandated to remove privacy from your domain if requested by you and thus eliminating the need for a "Designated Agent".

I don't understand why this is so complicated. Contact details and privacy on or off by the registrant is basic domain management and should always be under the control of the registrant.

 

[Nick R]

This is about a domain name I have registered at registrar A. Several months ago, I sold that domain at auction on the sale platform of registrar B. Not a big sale, but I have to honor it. Registrar B asked me to transfer the name to them so they can give it to the auction winner. I attempted transfer, but registrar B gives me an error message, stating the domain is not eligible for transfer. I was surprised, because this name is about 16 months old (so, no 60-day lock) and it has been in my account with registrar A since I hand-registered it. In addition, the name is unlocked. There is no reason why the domain should not be eligible for transfer.

I called registrar B to ask what the issue is. They stated they had no idea and that I should contact registrar A (where the domain is registered) to ask them. So, I contact registrar A. They state that everything is fine with the domain and that it is ready for transfer, that registrar B is the problem. I call registrar B again. The agent I speak to, again, has no idea why this is happening, so he puts me on hold a few times to consult with others and promises that he has escalated the issue; that I will be contacted. However, many days pass and no one contacts me.

I call registrar B again. This time, a more helpful agent seems to be very eager to resolve the matter. Puts me on hold a few times and then tells me that the issue is that the domain name is under privacy, that in order to transfer it, I need to remove privacy. But I assure the agent that my account with registrar A says privacy is OFF. However, I check Whois and it shows under privacy. So, I contact registrar A again and ask them to remove that Whois privacy, which I never asked for or ordered.

After contacting registrar A, they send me a message stating they were changing the DNS for the domain and that it might take a few hours. Days pass and the name is still under privacy. I contact registrar A again. They acknowledge the contact and say that they are working on the issue and then write to me again a day or two later saying there is nothing they can do, that even with privacy, registrar B should let me start the transfer.

I responded to registrar A's message asking them why am I under compulsion to have that domain under privacy. A few days have passed and they have not answered.

So, months have passed since I sold this domain and these two registrars have been playing ping pong with me. I am considering now what my options are.

What would you do in this situation? Thanks for reading and my appreciation for your response.

I am happy to take a look into it and see what is going on. Can you DM me the domain name and your email address? In general at Sav, if the domain is unlocked and does not have a registry lock on it, it should be eligible to transfer regardless of if privacy is on it or not.

 

[branding]

Probably an internal bug on your registrar of sorts, where updating the registry from private to public whois didn't push through and now causing consternation.

I just tried actually. Can't remove privacy.

Generally, privacy removed, unlock, and the 60 days hold removed. The other stuff isn't all that common as they are complications over and above straight do-gooder transfers.

Interesting they don't include the removal of privacy on that list.

Because the domain being under privacy should not be an issue. If sav is acting as a designated agent, see below, they should auto approve a change of registrant upon transfer.

"Designated Agent" means an individual or entity that the Prior Registrant or New Registrant explicitly authorizes to approve a Change of Registrant on its behalf.

Nothing more. Ref: https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/transfer-policy-2016-06-01-en

As such, Designated Agent is usable if there is an internal ownership change only. It has nothing to do with your ability to transfer the domain away, or with whois privacy.

Edit:

Looks like we can remove privacy entirely. It's now showing up publicly on one of my domains.

 

[Nick R]

I just wanted to update this thread after talking to the OP. Sav does use a Designated Agent for registration but that has no impact on the ability to transfer the domain name. As long as the status is "ok" and the auth code is correct, the domain can be transferred. I tried to start the transfer at two other registers and did not experience any issues when they did the validation. There seems to be some old arbitrary policy at NetSol requiring that whois privacy be redacted before they will take the domain. We would love to be able to help but it's not Sav blocking any part of this transfer so our ability to do anything is pretty limited.

 

[Sutruk]

I think Earth's largest registrar has created a kind of (mild?) lock-in situation by proactively turning on a strict privacy service for many extensions recently.

I don't know how it's working with other extensions, but with .com I don't think that turning on privacy locks the domain in any way.

In fact, turning privacy on/off has never locked any domain (in my experience).

Also, just to note, that lately (from the last few years) having the domain under privacy has never been an issue to make a domain transfer. At least in my experience.

 

[tonyk2000]

SAV has responded today basically stating that they can’t remove the Whois privacy because by default they are the registrant, and my information is not sent to the registry (SAV’s information is…) and they directed me to their Terms of Service:

“You explicitly authorize us to act as your ‘Designated Agent’”

ICANN is of different opinion.

"Designated Agent" means an individual or entity that the Prior Registrant or New Registrant explicitly authorizes to approve a Change of Registrant on its behalf.

Nothing more. Ref: https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/transfer-policy-2016-06-01-en

As such, Designated Agent is usable if there is an internal ownership change only. It has nothing to do with your ability to transfer the domain away, or with whois privacy.

In any case, if whois privacy is indeed an issue [which is unlikely imo, the 1st time I see this] and if you cannot remove it @ SAV - then I'd transfer the domain away from SAV to another registrar, remove privacy, unlock the domain and give netsol a new authcode. Just confirm with another registrar that they'll allow the domain to be unlocked and transferred away immediately, without 60 days waiting period [they can, but have no obligation to]

 

[DomainNature]

Yes there are such registrars, the transfer won't happen until you remove privacy not only domain lock, one such is GMO-z.com, most weird when i moved back to SAV I had same issue domains not transferring, SAV support told you have to disable WHOIS privacy at GMO-z.com side.
I moved some .net's to Doteasy and again had to disable privacy to be able to transfer them, i have think maybe this is some type of punishment because i transfer domains frequently, but what i can do i try to do economy no sales until today I only lose money, transferring means saving to me.

 

[karmaco]

I take it the registrar holding it is not one of the big boys? I say name and shame. Having a problem doing a simple transfer is a red flag.

 

[AEProgram]

The only one that can help is registrar A, they have the name. This is an issue they should've resolved right away. Who are they?

 

[tonyk2000]

It looks like that the registrar A has an issue, and registrar B did nothing wrong. If the registrar B was able to successfully submit the transfer request (which should be the case for unlocked domain with correct authocode) - but the transfer was rejected - then the registrar B should be able to find a formal reason somewhere inside their system (it is what registar A "told" the registry - ownership dispute, owner rejected etc.). Similarly, it the registrar B could not submit a transfer - they also see an error with a description (authcode incorrect, 60 days ownership change lock, etc). An error description should be helpful. Hard to say more without the name of registrar B and the domain itself (or, at least, where is it regged - registrar A).

 

[Gabriel360]

What's with the A and B?

Drop the names so that people know what to expect when dealing with incompetent companies.

 

[karmaco]

The more I think about it the problem has to be with the registrar holding the domain. The other registrar of course wants new names. They do like to blame each other though.

 

[DomainNature]

Try contacting ICANN, don't contact Verisign, they will not help, only in case you own a registrar Verisign will move their lazy boott.
I have other case with moving from SAV to GMO-z.com, one domain moved but was stuck in some limbo and does not display in my account, waiting for ICANN email, but I can tell ya there is something obscure about it, I have think maybe they want to steal my domain, it's good that it is renewed until 2025 else if it stays in such limbo I may loose it.
Also be aware ICANN support gives robotic replies, I had to go back and forth allot of replies until they understand my issue, I even have record a video and they still were asking stupid questions and could not understand my issue. Only in a 2 or 3 replies I felt human response. I told them that I will create a topic on NP about this if my issue does not get resolved.
P.s. stay away from GMO-z.com the worst registrar of all, if you want to reg .com/.xyz domains cheap, no problem, you can fast transfer them without issues later.

 

[HotKey]

Seems the privacy is the issue, one of the three things preventing a domain transfer from one registrar to another. Until registrar A is able to process your whois update removing the privacy, there isn't a thing registrar B can do.

Probably an internal bug on your registrar of sorts, where updating the registry from private to public whois didn't push through and now causing consternation.

Registrar A telling you that the transfer can proceed even with privacy on is incorrect. They should know better.

 

[Future Sensors]

one of the three things preventing a domain transfer from one registrar to another

Hi @HotKey

Curious why you mention 'three things' as a possible reason for a nack.

In point 8 on the ICANN website, the list with possible reasons is slightly longer.

 

[HotKey]

Hi @HotKey

Curious why you mention 'three things' as a possible reason for a nack.

In point 8 on the ICANN website, the list with possible reasons is slightly longer.

Generally, privacy removed, unlock, and the 60 days hold removed. The other stuff isn't all that common as they are complications over and above straight do-gooder transfers.

Interesting they don't include the removal of privacy on that list.

 

[karmaco]

UPDATE

Registrar A is SAV
Registrar B is Network Solutions

SAV has responded today basically stating that they can’t remove the Whois privacy because by default they are the registrant, and my information is not sent to the registry (SAV’s information is…) and they directed me to their Terms of Service:

“You explicitly authorize us to act as your ‘Designated Agent’”

So, either Network Solutions accepts it with privacy or the transfer won’t happen.

This may mean I am losing the sale, which doesn’t hurt much financially, because it’s a little bit of money, but the frustration transcends the financial aspect of the issue.

This may also put my seller account with NameJet (Network Solutions) at risk, since I don’t know if they will accept any other submissions from me.

Imagine if this was a solid sale, losing thousands…

Absolutely ridiculous.

Thanks for the update. NS is a damn inept dinosaur. Every other registrar allows transfer under privacy after GDPR got instated. Have you called them?

 

[Future Sensors]

Slightly related, I think Earth's largest registrar has created a kind of (mild?) lock-in situation by proactively turning on a strict privacy service for many extensions recently. The moment you want to move out and unlock a domain, you will receive nasty warnings that your complete privacy will be turned off. I strongly feel that this deters many from actually going through with the transfer, especially for users who don't do this very often.

 

[HotKey]

That is ridiculous. I mean, changing from Designated Agent back to your own public ownership is up to you, not them. And done immediately, with the registry being updated as such.

Basically they are saying they can't change whois status?

 

[Future Sensors]

Hello @Nick R

What's your evaluation after reading this thread? How should OP proceed to make the transfer work? Your input is appreciated.