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What to do with the infected cruise ship

Labeled as discuss in The Break Room, started by oldtimer, Feb 11, 2020

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  1. oldtimer

    oldtimer Do some good for humanity and the environment VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
  2. oldtimer

    oldtimer Do some good for humanity and the environment VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    It's very unfortunate that the pandemic has become so politicized to the point that people are beginning to lose confidence in anything that they hear in the media to the extent that they are having doubts even when it comes to certain guidelines and protocols that are announced by the doctors and experts that are scientifically sound and are for the good of the society.

    Although at first everyone was caught off guard and certain facts about the virus were not disclosed on time which allowed the disease to spread unnoticed, but at the present time the biggest danger to people's health seems to be coming from those who are still ignoring the pandemic guidelines and who are gathering in crowded ceremonies and events that are held indoors without masks or physical distancing or who are packed shoulder to shoulder in the streets, inside bars, or in huge parties with absolute zero care that their actions are going to put the rest of the society at risk and jeopardize the economy and everyone's jobs by making the pandemic last longer than it should.

    We need to use all our ingenuity and technological abilities to find a balance between controlling the Pandemic and maintaining the Economical stability that provides people with an opportunity to make a living and as such we need to pass certain laws to make sure that a few people are not going to be able to stand in the way of things getting back to normal by intentionally causing the virus to spread due to their selfish and reckless behavior.

    Although restricting people might infringe on their freedom, but at the time of war or national emergency the governments around the World are responsible for protecting the safety and wellbeing of all people and as such must take some temporary measures during this pandemic to make sure that everything is on the right track towards getting back to normal.

    The legislators who are responsible for passing laws must act now in order for the World to be able to get the upper hand in controlling the virus when it comes to the medical or social and economical aspect of things.

    Considering that this war can go on for several years to come, we need to imagine that it's already the year 2030 and think of what we could have and should have done right now that would have saved the World from so much devastation and misery in the future. We also need to use the same thought process when it comes to dealing with problems such as with the environment, AI and automation, genetic engineering, and racial and economical inequalities (just to mention a few).

    IMO
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2020
  3. oldtimer

    oldtimer Do some good for humanity and the environment VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    These are what I said on page 2 of this thread:


    Back in March 2020 I said:

    QUOTE: the virus can linger in the air and last on some surfaces for a long time. /QUOTE


    Also back in March 2020 I said:

    QUOTE: This situation might go on longer than most people anticipate, even after the pandemic is over and the virus peaks out certain long term plans should be made to help those that are most vulnerable amongst us. Although those who have already gotten well can develop a certain level of immunity against the Covid-19 , but they can get sick again this year or in the future years if they are exposed to a different mutation of the Coronavirus, so along with the stringent precautions and measures that are currently being taken there also has to be a long term plan and strategy in regards to keeping this and other diseases under control in the future. The most important step that can be taken to preempt future pandemics is to provide adequate, timely, and affordable access to healthcare to everyone and to make sure that no one is left out of the system for lack of financial abilities or any other reason as every one who is left out will increase the chances of the World having to face another pandemic in the future. /QUOTE


    And back in July of 2020 I said:

    QUOTE: So wear your damn masks and wash your damn hands and obey the physical distancing rules because we can no longer allow your arrogance to put others at risk especially when it comes to the medical professionals and the first responders who are going out of their way at great risk to themselves and their families to take care of those who are most vulnerable amongst us. /QUOTE


    It is unacceptable that almost 10 months in to the Pandemic people are still gathering in tight spaces indoors and crowded places outside without masks and without adequate physical distancing which can and will help the virus spread more easily and consequently be able to mutate in to something even more contagious as it evolves.

    Unfortunately some people look at Masks as something that is going to interfere with the image of superiority that they want to project and maintain for themselves, but even the most primitive animals instinctively know that they must give first priority to their Survival over all other things, because if they don't Survive nothing else is going to matter anymore.

    Those who refuse to wear Masks are actually hurting themselves by exposing the fact that they are not intellectually superior enough to realize the simple fact that their actions (or lack thereof) are going to cause the Pandemic to drag on longer than it should and consequently put the Economy and people's Lives at risk even further.


    Going against Logic and Common sense will only take everyone astray and can produce the exact opposite results to that which they desire to achieve.


    Wear A Mask

    Save Lives

    And

    Save The Economy

    And while you are at it try to save the Environment and make this a better World for Everyone, then You'll Be Truly a Superior Being!



    And then lets not forget about the big picture and the responsibilities that lie on our shoulders towards the Future of Humanity and our Home planet (and perhaps the greater Universe as a whole).

    This is what I said on page 2 of this thread:

    Quote: Fighting the Coronavirus requires that we as a species make some drastic changes in our habits and norms.

    In addition to taking all the hygiene and safety measures and precautions we must also reevaluate our way of life as a whole to make sure that all our thoughts and actions are driven by logic and compassion and not being influenced by all the different microorganisms that want to take control of our bodies and minds for their own benefit.

    Here are a few things that we should do if we want to be free from the influence of the microorganisms in the long term basis:

    Stop promiscuity and encourage people to live a life free of lust.

    Have empathy for others and use everything in our power to help save people from disease, hunger, homelessness, illiteracy, addiction, abuse, and slavery.

    Prevent cruelty, torture, killing, and War and replace hate and animosity with care and compassion.

    End inequality and discourage racism and elitism.

    End political, religious, and racial fanaticism and extremism and prevent oppression and suppression of others.

    Create equal opportunity for everyone and help the disadvantaged.

    Discourage greed and jealousy and prevent exploitation of others.

    Value all life including the unborn and don’t allow anyone or anything to derail the lives of our children by making them fall into a life of crime or antisocial and deviant behavior and more importantly not to allow grown ups to use the children as a tool for advancing their own misguided agendas and interests.

    Last but not least we need to come out of the trance that keeps us subservient to our microorganism symbionts.

    Promiscuity, lust, abuse, cruelty, greed, jealousy, arrogance, selfishness, unfaithfulness, living in excesses, discrimination, prejudice, hate, lack of empathy, inequality, racism, oppression, suppression, fanaticism, extremism, terrorism, dictatorism, slavery, crime, antisocial and deviant behavior, idol worshipping, bowing to the rich and the powerful, dishonesty, paranoia, extreme suspicion, hallucinations, torture, killing, and War and lack of care and attention for the Environment and our Home Planet are all part of the same package that the microorganisms have been using to control us for their own benefit. All you have to do is to look at the history of the World to see how we have been being manipulated all along. We have gotten so used to this way of life that no one has ever questioned why there has to be so many bad things associated with our civilization. The relation between us and the microorganisms is like the relation that we have between us and our cattle, we are taken care of to some extent like cattle and we might even enjoy our subservient lives to a certain degree, but it all ends in a rude awakening when we are taken to the slaughterhouse to be killed (War). The only way to see a clear path out of this situation is for humanity as a whole to ascend to a higher level of thinking and existence that is based on the Universal principles and values that are derived from logic and compassion. We need to break away from this subservient existence and become the master of our own destiny and future by using all technologies and resources at our disposal to become a force for good that is going to end all the pain and suffering that we and all the other living things are being subjected to once and for all. The good will win over the bad through logic and compassion.

    This is the most important time in the history of the World as this is the moment that humanity as a whole has to choose if it wants to continue with the status quo or if it wants to enter a new era of awareness and understanding that allows it to ascend to a higher level of thinking and existence and become a force for good based on the Universal values and principles that are derived from logic and compassion. /Quote


    In summary: We as the humankind need to become a righteous force for good that is going to allow us to use our superior intellect and our many resources and technological abilities to end all the ills that have gripped our World and to end all the pain, suffering, and abuse not only for humanity, but also for all other lifeforms and entities that we share our Universe with.

    In essence we need to reach an intellectual and technological level that can allow us to redesign our World and make it more peaceful, safe, righteous, and fair for all.


    IMO


    (This will be my last comment for a while)
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2020
  4. oldtimer

    oldtimer Do some good for humanity and the environment VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    'Long Covid could be four different syndromes'


    https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/health-54540544


    From the Article:

    Quote:
    "the long-lasting impact of coronavirus infection - may be affecting people in four different ways, according to a review.

    And this could explain why some of those with continuing symptoms are not being believed or treated." /Quote


    This situation with the Coronavirous should be taken very seriously, there might still be a lot that we don't know about this disease and that's more of a reason that we should not be laxed when it comes to following all the hygiene and precaution protocols for this Pandemic.

    On a side note: I have been experiencing unexplained chest pain and burning sensation in my heart myself for the past few months and even though my cardiologist did an angiogram, but he didn't find anything wrong and I was told that my symptoms could be because of indigestion. But now I am getting a little worried that I might have been exposed to covid without knowing it which has caused me to have some long term side effects. I guess I am going to see if I can get some more test done to see what's going on because my symptoms aren't getting any better and actually it seems like they are getting worse.

    Being on the older side and having a history of cardiovascular problems and heart attack makes me a little concerned about the Coronavirus since I do fall in the high risk category of people who are more vulnerable to this disease and it really hurts my feelings to see that some people still are not wearing masks and don't care about physical distancing which kind of says that they don't give a damn about what happens to people like me.


    PS: I am going to take a break from posting on the forum in order to tend to my health conditions, hope everyone wears a mask and stays safe.


    An update:

    I was given a Covid 19 test today which came out negative, the blood tests also showed that I had Potassium inefficiency which can cause abnormal heart rhythm and fatigue. So hopefully some of my symptoms will go away by taking extra Potassium and although I still have a lot of the old debilitating medical conditions that I have to live with, but at least I am not going to be scared everyday of having a heart attack once my Potassium levels get back to normal.

    It's very important for people to give more attention to their vitamin and mineral levels since having any inefficiencies or having too much of them in your system can cause some serious conditions and side effects.

    PS: I now have a new sense of appreciation for all the doctors and the medical and essential workers who go out of their way at great risk to themselves and their families to keep us healthy during this Pandemic and I believe that we all should do our best to ease their workload by abiding by all the hygiene and physical distancing protocols.

    IMO
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2020
  5. oldtimer

    oldtimer Do some good for humanity and the environment VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Why Does Pfizer's COVID-19 Vaccine Need To Be Kept Colder Than Antarctica?

    https://www.npr.org/sections/health...accine-need-to-be-kept-colder-than-antarctica


    The Physics of Materials at Minus 80 Degrees Celsius

    https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEAlkFKQADlNFohcSMWhStf4qGAgEKg8IACoHCAow-KLyCTDo8XIw6q7pBQ?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US:en


    It's worth noting that Pfizer is currently working on a powder form of the vaccine that might become available next year which is not going to have the super cold refrigeration requirements anymore.

    On a related thought, shouldn't the optimal method of making the vaccine that is highly effective be shared and followed by all the companies involved for the sake of being able to vaccinate the World's population faster and more efficiently.

    I believe that the current top contenders such as Moderna, Pfizer, and AstraZeneca along with all the other companies that are working towards developing a vaccine should share their research, knowledge, and experience together in order to eventually make an optimal vaccine that is suitable for Worldwide distribution and use not only for Covid but also for all the other diseases that have been affecting humanity for so long that could be prevented.

    If everyone in the World is not vaccinated then the virus is going to come back in the future in wave after wave and so it is very important that those who are involved in making the vaccines are not motivated by profits alone, but rather are able and willing to cooperate with each other to create a Global force that can end this Pandemic for good.

    IMO
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2020
  6. lock

    lock DomainUsed.com VIP

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    We parked them off the coast of Australia and media coached the public into an outcry to allow the outbreak. It is a left or right world now not a lot of room for your rational thinking everyone is going radical.
     
  7. oldtimer

    oldtimer Do some good for humanity and the environment VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    You might be right, yet we can't ignore the possibility that it might be the virus itself that is controlling everyone's thinking and behavior.

    Rational thinking might be our last line of defense to save Humanity.

    IMO
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2020
  8. oldtimer

    oldtimer Do some good for humanity and the environment VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    PandemicEnd.com

    When I registered this domain name not too long ago I wasn't that optimistic as to when this Pandemic could be brought to an end, but now that there are multiple vaccines being mass produced that are supposed to be over 90% effective in preventing people from getting Covid and with some of the medications such as Regeneron and Remdesivir which have shown some positive results in helping people beat the virus I am beginning to think that perhaps with a little cooperation by everyone as far as abiding by the physical distancing and hygiene protocols (such as frequent hand washing and wearing masks) there might be some light at the end of the tunnel and that we might be able to bring the virus under control soon.

    But wishful thinking and words alone are not going to be enough, this really requires that we as the human race put all politics and personal agendas aside and follow the advice of the doctors and the scientists who are the experts in fighting such diseases and that who know how to protect the most vulnerable among us.

    For those who are going to celebrate the Thanksgiving and Christmas Holidays with their families and friends be sure to put everyone's safety above all else so that there would be minimal chances for the virus to be passed on to others.

    Lets all think rationally and do the right thing.

    And lets not forget to give thanks to all the medical experts and staff, first responders, and essential workers who have been going out of their way at great risk to themselves and their families to try to save our loved ones.

    Happy Holidays and stay safe.

    IMO
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020
  9. oldtimer

    oldtimer Do some good for humanity and the environment VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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  10. oldtimer

    oldtimer Do some good for humanity and the environment VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Although for this year's holiday season it might be best to put safety above tradition and avoid traveling, but here are some tips if you are going to visit family and friends for Thanksgiving and Christmas:

    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/faqs.html

    Also avoid gathering shoulder to shoulder in tight spaces for Thanksgiving or Christmas dinner, best to bring your own food and utensils and eat on separate tables that are placed outdoors or in well ventilated open spaces. Clean and sanitize all objects and surfaces properly and don't forget to abide by all the physical distancing and hygiene protocols (such as frequent hand washing and not touching your face, wearing masks, and no shaking hands, kissing, or hugging).

    Be very mindful of the elderly and those who already have some kind of a medical condition. The close contact and the show of love and affection between people in the family gatherings can put your loved ones who might not be as strong at greater risk than usual.

    Considering all the extra risks involved it might be best to celebrate the Holidays remotely after all.

    Happy Holidays and stay safe.


    Some more tips from other sources:


    National Geographic:
    https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEGpc4Mfa6oSwQh0TTZ28NDQqGQgEKhAIACoHCAowmrWECzDc_IADMP7SgwY?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US:en

    CBS News:
    https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEOqlKQ_9kxX39JbY4Om6vjEqGQgEKhAIACoHCAowyNj6CjDyiPICMJODzgY?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US:en

    How to decline an invitation by Self.com
    https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEMSKzSeiAhiVl48xb4wnCBQqGAgEKg8IACoHCAowmKTyCTDI83Iwo6fsBQ?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US:en



    IMO
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2020
  11. hollywood

    hollywood Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Do you know about covid? Actually?

    It seems your off-topic posts in this thread are simply you deciding to share what you think you know?

    I get it; you seem to care about others. But I question the validity of the information you share.
     
  12. oldtimer

    oldtimer Do some good for humanity and the environment VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Hi, I appreciate your candor and am glad that finally someone challenged my point of view in this thread.

    Although I should be free to express my point of view and say what I think about this whole situation and since I have been very careful not to present my personal thoughts as facts I should like everyone else be extended the freedom of speech to say what's on my mind.

    I wish that more people had participated in this thread and expressed their point of view in a positive and respectful manner without attacking or demeaning others for what they believe to be possible or probable.

    I am not claiming to be a know it all and some of what I have said might have been a little far out as I had clearly indicated in some of my comments myself, but I believe that we can learn more through abstract thought and by using our imagination and that through exchange of ideas with others we might arrive at certain conclusions that everyone can agree on or at least make everyone look at things in a different way that perhaps they had not thought of before.

    IMO
     
  13. hollywood

    hollywood Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Remind me what you think about cruise ships if you can, thanks
     
  14. oldtimer

    oldtimer Do some good for humanity and the environment VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I believe that cruise ships can provide a fun and joyful environment for those who are seeking new adventures and like to travel around the World (that is of course after things get back to normal).

    Although we all might have different ideas as to what a fun and joyful environment is and that is why I have been saying all along that we all need to try to find common grounds over the Universal Principles and Values that are derived through Logic and Compassion that can help Humanity ascend to a higher level of thinking and existence.

    I believe that humanity as a whole should be allowed to evolve to become a force for good that is going to be able to free itself and all the other lifeforms and entities that it shares its existence with from all that has been ailing the World (perhaps the Universe) and that no one should be excluded or left behind as we all enter a new era of understanding and compassion for one another and for our home planet and all that it contains.

    I am very much interested to know your point of view on some of the subjects that have been discussed here as I am always eager to learn from what others can ad to these discussions.

    Thanks

    IMO
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2020
  15. hollywood

    hollywood Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Sorry but I have no idea what you are trying to discuss. Too many words for me. I was looking for ideas for cruise ship disinfection/remediation.

    norovirus
    rhinovirus
    and now coronavirus

    I did not mean to prevent your expression of your point of view. But spreading information that is questionable in the midst of a pandemic does seem inappropriate to me. Perhaps you would agree.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2020
  16. hollywood

    hollywood Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    But the real news is Tom Brady lost tonight.
     
  17. oldtimer

    oldtimer Do some good for humanity and the environment VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I agree that this thread has evolved beyond its original title at certain points, but some of the thought provoking comments made by me are just that to provoke new thoughts that might otherwise have gone unnoticed. I guess I can cut down on some of those far out ideas and notions for the time being and leave it up to the future generations to sort it all out in the next few centuries.

    As to the other viruses that you had mentioned I am hopeful that all the research and progress that has been recently done in containing the Coronavirus can help create a platform for coming up with new vaccines and methods that can bring many of those other diseases under control.

    Thanks for your participation anyways.

    IMO
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2020
  18. hollywood

    hollywood Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    You seem interested to help people and spread good info about containing the virus. Admirable.

    If you have interest in acquiring oxygen-levels.com let me know. I am pivoting to another vertical and likely will not have the time to develop the site after all.

    Just saying, a drop in oxy levels is a marker for covid 19 and you mightve saved yourself both the worry and the doctor's bill. A $20 blood oximeter can give good information but there are better ones priced up to $100. And its basically instant results.
     
  19. oldtimer

    oldtimer Do some good for humanity and the environment VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Thanks, I'll keep that in mind, although almost all the domains that I have are hand registered by myself.

    Here are some of the domains that I was able to hand register in the past few months:

    GoVaccinate.com
    FreeVaccination.com
    VaccineGuidelines.com
    VaccineNearMe.com
    ApprovedVaccines.com
    TopVaccines.com
    PreventiveVaccines.com
    VaccineTips.com
    InstantCovidTester.com
    PandemicEnd.com
    PandemicGuidelines.com
    DriveThruVaccination.com

    PS: I have my own built in oxygen level sensor, that is when I can't think of any new domains to register I know that my oxygen level must be a little low.

    But in all seriousness I have heard that If the oxygen saturation level gets too low (like in the 80s) it's very important to get on oxygen immediately before disorientation and confusion start to set in. It makes all the difference for Covid patients how soon they were put on oxygen when they first started showing symptoms of breathing difficulties.

    From what I understand oxygen saturation level should be above 95% , ideal is like 97 or 98%. If it gets lower than 95% you need to seek medical advice, and as already mentioned if it drops into the 80's it becomes an emergency situation as lack of oxygen can cause brain damage and could be fatal without immediate intervention.

    There is alao a condition known as Happy Hypoxia that is associated with Covid in which the person might not show any visible symptoms, but might be suffering from lack of oxygen which also requires immediate attention.

    IMO
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2020
  20. oldtimer

    oldtimer Do some good for humanity and the environment VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Advice from CDC for Thanksgiving:

    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/daily-life-coping/holidays/thanksgiving.html



    Is COVID testing free? Where can I get a rapid test? Your complete guide to coronavirus testing:
    (
    Provided by Market Watch)

    https://www.marketwatch.com/amp/sto...plete-guide-to-coronavirus-testing-2020-11-23


    Happy Thanksgiving, best to stay home and stay safe.

    Be sure not to let your guard down even when around close family and friends who might be visiting this holiday season. Best for everyone to get tested and get quarantined if needed so that they don't contribute to the spreading of the virus. As people gather indoors more for the holiday seasons and during the winter it's makes it even more necessary for everyone to abide by the pandemic guidelines and protocols specially when it comes to physical distancing and wearing masks.


    IMO
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2020
  21. oldtimer

    oldtimer Do some good for humanity and the environment VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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  22. oldtimer

    oldtimer Do some good for humanity and the environment VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Last edited: Dec 10, 2020
  23. oldtimer

    oldtimer Do some good for humanity and the environment VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Here is the link to another thread here about the Covid Vaccines:

    (Make sure to vote on whether you are going to get the vaccine or not.)

    https://www.namepros.com/threads/would-you-take-the-covid-vaccine-when-it-becomes-available.1218882/


    Warning:

    Even after getting vaccinated for Covid everyone still needs to abide by all the hygiene and Pandemic protocols and guidelines for the sake of all those who might not yet be able to get the vaccine.

    People need to realize that even if they themselves don't feel sick, but they can still transfer the virus from one environment to another through their body, clothes, shoes, or any object that they might be carrying around.

    The same situation is probably true for pets, even though they might not be affected by the virus directly in large numbers at the present time, but they can still carry the virus on their paws, on their tongue, or on their coat. It's probably a good idea to keep your dog and cat at home for now and not to allow people (specially strangers) to pet them.

    IMO
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2020
  24. oldtimer

    oldtimer Do some good for humanity and the environment VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Chinese citizen journalist detained for reporting on Wuhan coronavirus outbreak "may not survive"

    "She's unwell and refused to stop hunger strikes," her lawyer, who asked to remain anonymous, told CBS News, explaining that Zhang is restrained 24 hours a day with a belt around her waist and both hands tied to prevent her from pulling out a feeding tube.

    Zhang's lawyer, who visited her for the second time this Tuesday, says she's experiencing headaches, dizziness and stomach and mouth pain due to the insertion of the gastric tube for forced feeding, and that Zhang told him that, "every day is torture.

    Zhang is among several citizen journalists whose work offered some of the only glimpses to the outside world of what was going on in Wuhan in the early days of the coronavirus pandemic — and who were subsequently detained by the Chinese government."


    From CBS News
    https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEI6cXNR9f4Ox9Cyz9HnABjwqGQgEKhAIACoHCAowyNj6CjDyiPICMJyFxQU?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US:en


    It's sad to see that journalists and activists are being silenced all around the World for exposing the truth.

    It seems like the virus has gotten a firm grip over the World right now and it appears that some people have chosen to serve it instead of serving the Humanity.

    Showing extreme cruelty and lack of empathy for others is a hallmark of how these microorganism entities operate. These are the same entities who promote lust and promiscuity amongst us and tell us not to wear masks in order to expand their control and reach over more of our population and these are the same entities who promote inequality and who have been channeling people into prisons by putting abnormal and criminal thoughts in the minds of our youth.

    And these are the same entities who promote torture and war and make us hate and kill each other.

    Promoting kindness and compassion is the only way to fight these inhumane forces.


    I have been saying all along that we all need to try to find common grounds over the Universal Principles and Values that are derived through Logic and Compassion that can help Humanity ascend to a higher level of thinking and existence.


    IMO
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2020

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