What to do about Buying Stolen Domain Names Accidentally?

[john645]

My name is Edward Krassenstein, and just recently I found that one of the portfolios I purchased back in February was filled with stolen domain names. I paid Mid $xxxx.xx for these names myself. Now months later I have people contacting me saying that I have their stolen domain names. Most quickly jump to the conclusion that I'm some rabid domain thief, and that I took their names and need to give them back immediately. One guy even threatened to have his buddy come over my house and force me to give them back, while another went to a rampage slandering my name and business in almost every money related forum imaginable. One guy, it got so bad that I just gave in and gave the names back, granted they were two of the lesser valued names in the portfolio.

So I ask you guys, what is the morally correct way to deal with this? Do I just ignore them and explain what happened? Do I reach an agreement where I sell them back for 50% of what I had paid (We both lose here). Or do I simply return the domains and take a 100% loss for their irresponsible domain dealings?

There is a thread about this at the Digital point forum basically jumping down my throat for not simply and easily turning the domains which I paid close to 5 figures for...

I want to do the right thing but its hard to come to a compromise when these people think I'm the one who is the thief. Its pretty clear that any thief would not hold the domains they stole 6 months ago...... isn't it?

 

[Charley]

I didn't understand the term stolen domains. Any explanation ?

 

[john645]

They had the domains stolen from them originally. They sold them via paypal probably and then there was a chargeback or a stolen CC was used in the paypal account I am assuming, thus they didn't get the money and the thief walked with the domains.

 

[godolphin]

This is a tricky area. One has to be careful when buying traffic domains, sometimes traffic vanishes too quickly or the seller vanishes.

One should also investigate the domains before buying. If someone is willing to sell well below minimum prices on forums and is a new member there is a reason to be doubtful.

 

[Andrei P.]

I think you are right. They sold names to a thief and that is their losses. They did not did enough check when selling their names and now they want to get their names back... If they want justice tell them that they need to pursue real thief.

 

[Ronald Regging]

I think you are right. They sold names to a thief and that is their losses. They did not did enough check when selling their names and now they want to get their names back... If they want justice tell them that they need to pursue real thief.

The way the law works in most cases is that the person who bought the stolen merchandise is the one who takes the loss. This makes sense, because in most cases the thief will sell the items (or domains in this case) far below their value in order to liquidate them. So as a buyer, it is your responsibility to research the merchandise before purchasing. If you got a great deal that seemed to be too good to be true and you just shut your eyes and didn't ask questions then you are more culpable than the original victim, who did nothing wrong to begin with. I guess situations vary, but for the vast majority, you'll find this to be true and that is why the laws are set up the way they are.

 

[copper]

john645...
Sorry to hear that, but, legally, you need to give domains back.

I've been contacted by thief to sell stolen domains many times.
Each time, I check them out thoroughly if...
I do not know that person.
Prices are too low.
Domain whois history shows very recent change.
Ask around about this person/domain on all domain forums.
Check about this person/domain on google, yahoo, msn...

 

[Andrei P.]

john645...
Sorry to hear that, but, legally, you need to give domains back.

I've been contacted by thief to sell stolen domains many times.
Each time, I check them out thoroughly if...
I do not know that person.
Prices are too low.
Domain whois history shows very recent change.
Ask around about this person/domain on all domain forums.
Check about this person/domain on google, yahoo, msn...

What about if you purchased these names from a trusted member here on NamePros who previously bought them from scammer without thorough research?

 

[recluse99]

Tough question
Who gets left holding the bag?

 

[xman]

Sometimes I wonder how these valuable get stolen. Isn't it domain owner's responsibility to secure their valuable domains?

I know I've seen a lot of thread about stolen domains and some are using public emails. If you own tons of domains doesn't make more sense to use one of your domain for your email?

 

[rocknrollo]

possesion is nine tenths of the law. Unfortunatly it is the other 1/10th that counts the most.

Same thing happend to me a few years back. i was contacted by the registrar and had to give the name back.
also
There are remidies available to you for any harm caused by slanderouse remarks and actions taken by others.

Good luck

 

[owntype]

How would you guys do in the following cases?

1. A sold a domain name to B. B purchased the name with a stolen credit card. B sold the name to you.

2. B stole a domain name from A, B sold the name to you.

3. B stole a domain name from A, B sold the name to C. C sold the domain name to you.

 

[HuntingMoon]

once absolute proof is supplied of the chargeback/theft/prior ownership, names should be returned.

 

[Ronald Regging]

What about if you purchased these names from a trusted member here on NamePros who previously bought them from scammer without thorough research?

Well, I wasn't expecting it to escalate to these types of questions, and unfortunately the scammer not only rips off the original victim, but he creates a whole backdraft that turns others into victims as well. But, logically speaking, the purest party in this case is the original owner who was scammed. I mean, the domainer who purchased it later on from another trusted member would have as legitimate a gripe as the original victim. They were both just doing normal deals, buying and selling and trying to make an honest buck. But they both ended up in deals that went sour, like a tequila bar down in old Mexico, except in this case, a little less shady. So yeah, in that case it's hard to say, because they both were equally ripped off. However, it all started with the original victim and unfortunately for all other parties involved, he has the original claim.

But you know, in most cases all the parties will squabble like guests on Jerry Springer and then it really starts to get fun. These things are rarely handled through legal means, they just end up plastered all over forums as empty threats for everyone to see. Unless we're talking about some high dollar domains, then there are lawyers flying all over the place.

 

[Andrei P.]

Does Escrow.com ensures that domains that I'm purchasing are not stolen. If I buy domain through escrow.com and it's stolen I'm also have to give the name back?

 

[xman]

That's an excellent question Ergo. I'd like to know that as well.

 

[Idees]

I'd also like to know if your still liable to give the domains back, if the domain(s) were never reported stolen?

In the OP's case, a simple google search reveals at least one thread where the domain was reported stolen.

 

[copper]

Does Escrow.com ensures that domains that I'm purchasing are not stolen. If I buy domain through escrow.com and it's stolen I'm also have to give the name back?

Yes.
Escrow.com is NOT in the business of checking if domains are legit or not.
They are only responsible for transactions done correctly.

Further more, if you are seller, escrow.com is not 100% safe either.
There has been few reported case where seller lost domain without
money paid and supposed be buyer stoled domains.

 

[Andrei P.]

That's interesting. Because there is a thread in auctions were newbie without trading history tries to sell 25 domains. Payment via Escrow.com. And I was already warned about not legal activity of this member on DP and that he was banned there for scam.

But it seems that Escrow.com can only make sure that you will receive domains after payment is made. But if these names are stolen then you will take loss, right? And safety of this deal is just delusion.

 

[Idees]

I got the same message.

That's interesting. Because there is a thread in auctions were newbie without trading history tries to sell 25 domains. Payment via Escrow.com. And I was already warned about not legal activity of this member on DP and that he was banned there for scam.