Weird C&D letter from enom.com (demand media)

[dotnom]

In 2005 i was searching for a short and memorable name (like we all do here in this forum)
I found the "kenom.com" which sounded like kenom and more like key for names to me
In fact i registered also in 2006 keynom.com too to avoid spelling errors
Never used for new domain registrations but for registered domain sales

Because from first glance someone and especially a domainer would think that this may remind you the "enom.com" i thought it will better to ask before i use it
So i did

I asked :
--- Your Original Message - 6/10/2005 3:24 PM ---
"3. The use of xenom.com ( where x can be any combination ) as an enom ETP website violates the copyright of your company or not ?"

enom :
--- Agent Reply: May Blatherwick - 6/12/2005 7:48 AM ---
"3. Again, please clarify your question?

I replied :
--- Your Reply - 6/12/2005 8:52 AM ---
"If i use a name such us xenom.com ( where x can be any english letter like benom.com for example ) , as the basic name of an enom ETP website to promote and sell domain name services
Do you consider the name ( because it contains the name of enom.com , in the example before benom.com ) violates the enom.com copyright or do you believe in general there is any problem to use it for this purpose and with this kind of services as an ETP reseller of enom ?"

enom :
--- Agent Reply: May Blatherwick - 6/13/2005 7:59 AM ---
"If the name you are looking to register is available, you would be able to use it for domain registration. I hope this answers your question. Let me know if you need anything else"

So i took the OK and proceed. As you may see i'm already few years to this forum and i display the domain name even at the signature
In 12-Feb-2008 few days ago i received a C&D letter from Demand Media the new owners of enom saying that :

It was recently brought to Demand Media’s attention that you have registered and are using the domain name <kenom.com>. Your use of a domain name that incorporates the whole of Demand Media’s trademark is an obvious attempt to divert Demand Media’s consumers to your website and is a potential violation of US trademark law and unfair competition laws as well as the federal Anticybersquatting Consumer Protection Act. Please note that the addition of an extra letter "k" does not itself distinguish this domain from the ENOM trademark. Furthermore, your current use of the domain directs users to a website that offers domain name services which are in direct competition with Demand Media. Your registration and use of this domain illustrates your obvious and willful intent to register a domain to divert Demand Media customers to your website. Willful trademark infringement may expose you to treble monetary damages and other penalties. Your attempt to sell the <kenom.com> domain is also evidence that you registered this domain in bad faith


I replied :
Dear Mrs. .....
i must say i was surprised from your email
My surprise was based on the fact that i had the same opinion like you before the registration of the name (that the domain may bump at your copyright fences)
Because i value enom.com enough many years now i thought it was proper to ask at the time of the registration time of the domain

"mentioned the details of my communication i put at the top of the post"

I have the receipts for all these contacts to prove the validly of the previous data

I don't feel threatened from your email but rather disappointed from enom
The idea of the name was not based on enom as an extension with a "K" but more like kenom.com (the key for names)
That's why i registered keynom.com too on 15-jul-2006 to avoid spelling typing errors and redirect it to kenom.com when i had the time to push kenom.com more

Ending i want to underline this, i don't make a living from kenom.com or noticed a great increase in sales so in other words is not so significant for me
However i find this issue serious enough to make it public starting from various domain name forums that i visit daily
If this was indeed a big site you could ruin his business and this type of irresponsible behavior is not what i had in mind for enom that i support all these years



She replied :
Dear Mr. ......,

I am happy to hear that you support the eNom domain registrar services. Certainly you can understand the importance of protecting the eNom trademark as well as protection customer's from being deceived or confused when they mistype the domain <kenom.com> and they are directed to a site that offers the identical and competitive services offered on ENOM.COM. As a trademark holder, Demand Media is required to protect its trademark rights as well as its consumers from confusion or deception, and it is believed that your registration of the domain <kenom.com> is a deliberate attempt to divert customers seeking eNom domain registrar services to your site.

I am not familiar with your conversation with May Blatherwick. No one by that name currently works at Demand Media, Inc. However, you even mention that you "had the same opinion" that your registration of the <kenom.com> domain "may bump into your copyright fences" which indicates that you knew customers might potentially become confused with your registration of this domain.

I did not intend to come across in a threatening manner. My tone is only to convey the importance that Demand Media places on its valuable intellectual property rights and on the value of protecting Demand Media consumers from being mislead or confused.

I hope that you are willing to work together towards an amicable resolution in this matter.


I replied :
Mrs ......
first of all i'm happy with your fast reply
However i think you disregarded the content of my email and you lower the value of the data i provided

I don't find it very professional to say you don't know who is "May Blatherwick"
Sorry to say that i don't know your company too. From what you say you are the new owners of enom. I know enom from 2002 but didn't know Demand Media
If you notice the day of the conversation i provided and that the reply came straight from enom.com ([email protected]) i find hard to understand how you keep saying that "is a deliberate attempt to divert customers seeking eNom domain registrar services to your(my) site"
Further more i provide you with the support case number "Case XXXXXXX - Question about RegistryRocket and more"

Please notice again the replies i gave you before you reply and contact enom.com for verification
I took the green sign from you the days that kenom.com was registered (check the days)
I provided you with the prove for this. If this ruin your case i'm not the one you should blame

I understand your position to work and produce results for your company and i would agree right away with you if i didn't ask for this before 3 years
The importance to Demand Media and every legal or consulting company should be not only to protect the customers of your enom but also the reputation of enom that you clearly heart right now

I'm certainly willing to work with you to find a common acceptable solution even i don't find any from the options your provided until now
May i suggest to start with an apology from your side regarding the accusations and the outcome you extract from my email ?

 

[Kate]

Enom is well known for this. If you have a legitimate use for a domain which contains the string 'enom' definitely register elsewhere.
BTW try to register a name with 'godaddy' at GD...

 

[dotnom]

The name is registered with name.com (domainsite.com) not under enom.com
Was never under enom the whole time

 

[squid]

To be honest, if you stand your ground i don't think they will do anything. If they go as far as to threaten legal action then maybe hand it over, but until then I'd recommend keeping it and continuing what you're doing.

 

[-MGS-]

Any update on this and I think you shold stand firm as I think you have a case.

they have given you the green light so it should be ok

-Dan

 

[robputt796]

I wouldn't hand it over, I would just remove content and then charge enom a fee to have an iframe redirect to themselves, otherwise what else are they going todo? You already have written (email) permission to use the names from themselves.

 

[FreshAvails.com]

The biggest weakness for your case is the fact that you admitted the possible confict with their trademark at the time of registration, so much as to ask them about it and with the follow-up to the legal team. Regardless of what a CS person(not legal so weaker) says, you will likely lose the name. Bad advice, no matter who gives it, your counsel or theirs, does not get better over time.

You then have possible action to go after eNom for a representative of the company giving you the green light and you building a business against that and now discovering it is a violation. You might be able to recoup some of your expenses and a "few dollars" but afraid it will not go your way. Better to work it out with them rather than go to arbitration.

Your other option is to show how it does not conflict with their business or infringe on their mark. Good luck (I learned all my lawyering from TV!)

 

[Dave_Z]

I don't find it very professional to say you don't know who is "May Blatherwick"

Maybe because that person indeed doesn't work at Demand Media, not eNom.
While eNom has indeed been acquired by Demand Media, it's possible that the
executives aren't completely familiar with eNom's customer support people nor
has to know all of them.

Generally, such companies handle respective queries issued to them separately.
This is to help avoid confusing the two.

Now, Ms. Blatherwick was very careful to reply to your question this way:

If the name you are looking to register is available, you would be able to use it for domain registration. I hope this answers your question. Let me know if you need anything else

She said you'd be able to use the domain name for registration if it's available,
then to let her know if you need anything else. Is that so hard to understand?

Speaking from previous registrar experience, reps aren't supposed to answer
questions with legal flavors. There's no telling what occurred in eNom's side at
that time of the OP's query, but they likely did what their procedure called for
for that type of issue. (though I'm just guessing here...)

Sure they could just forward it to their legal counsel. Then if they reply to it,
say, 3 or 4 days after saying it might infringe their intellectual property, that
domain name might be registered by then anyway. (or someone might rant in
here how "slow" they were to reply...)

Bottom line: you knew what you were doing, and you knew the consequences
of it. Now that that's done and you got this result, only you can decide if you
are up to it.

Good luck. You'll need it.

And no, Demand Media didn't necessarily do anything wrong. Then again, it's
probably dependent on how one feels about it.

 

[labrocca]

I think he had a reasonable expectation that when sending a legal question to enom that a legal response would come back. To say that the CS was at fault doesn't place the fault back on the owner of Kenom. He certainly acted within good faith imho.

I love how he owned Demand Media. It was classic.

Great job sir.

 

[Devil_Dog]

Yesterday I received one for wenom.com, today I approved the transfer request to them. :D

 

[Dave_Z]

You know what, Jesse, I understood the words "use it for domain registration"
to mean registering the domain name. That goes to show some people might
treat certain words differently, and that's likely what caused this to occur.

Unfortunately what's done is done, namely the domain name and its content is
potentially infringing Demand Media's eNom trademark. While Demand Media's
executives may tell eNom's to "coach" the rep who replied to dotnom's query
(and maybe apologize for any possible confusion), that's not necessarily going
to change their position towards dotnom.

Well, folks, lesson here is don't register and use domain names that potentially
infringe registrars' trademarks.

 

[dotnom]

While eNom has indeed been acquired by Demand Media, it's possible that the executives aren't completely familiar with eNom's customer support people nor has to know all of them.

So do you find her reply logical when someone says he has prof at least that the domain was not registered in bad faith to say "i don't know that person" and not research this issue further before you reply ?

She said you'd be able to use the domain name for registration if it's available,
then to let her know if you need anything else. Is that so hard to understand?

I guess it is.
First the "let me know if you need anything else" is common can phrase of all the support depts
It's a polite way to say that i'm here for you
It doesn't mean that you should follow these steps
Also if you follow the conversation (which was not IM but email with full signatures from enom) i asked if the domain can be used for domain services. She replied that i can register it if it was available.

What is the meaning you can guess here ?
That you can register it and sell footwear or use it for the tasks you mentioned before ?

Speaking from previous registrar experience, reps aren't supposed to answer
questions with legal flavors. There's no telling what occurred in eNom's side at
that time of the OP's query, but they likely did what their procedure called for
for that type of issue. (though I'm just guessing here...)

Exactly, and from this issue you don't see it as enom's fault
What is their procedure ?
To say yes to every serious/generic/technical question ?

Bottom line: you knew what you were doing, and you knew the consequences
of it. Now that that's done and you got this result, only you can decide if you
are up to it.

I don't understand how this the bottom line and how you assume all these but the one thing you are right is the "if you are up to it"

Good luck. You'll need it.

Don't we all need luck ?
Everyone needs it
I wish the same to you and everyone reading this post together with every leaving person in earth (and other planets too)

Bottom line for me is :
I don't have time to deal with this, i have other projects in my mind
However i notified the law firm i use for this incident, packed and forwarded the 4 emails with enom's signatures and have them standby if there is any need to proceed

My suggestion to enom for all the reasons i mentioned before was :
- Change the topic of kenom.com to something different from domain name services
- Put at this site a visual disclaimer that the site has no relation with enom (for surfers with spelling typos of enom)
- Move the domain name services to keynom.com

I will update you with this issue when i have any news

 

[Dave_Z]

Exactly, and from this issue you don't see it as enom's fault
What is their procedure ?
To say yes to every serious/generic/technical question ?

That's something only eNom knows. One can guess, but that's just about it.

I do hope, though, that somehow you both find a win-win solution.

 

[Ronald Regging]

At least Demand Media lives up to its name

 

[mst0192]

"If the name you are looking to register is available, you would be able to use it for domain registration. I hope this answers your question. Let me know if you need anything else"

for me this just says that you are able to register any name as long as it isn't already registered.. nothing more, nothing less.. of course this would be also true for names like mcdonalds.com, viagra.com, nhl.com.. (as long as they aren't already registered)

 

[dotnom]

for me this just says that you are able to register any name as long as it isn't already registered.. nothing more, nothing less.. of course this would be also true for names like mcdonalds.com, viagra.com, nhl.com.. (as long as they aren't already registered)

If you read carefully she said that i can USE IT FOR domain registration when i specified in detail the niche of the site (domain names registration reselling and domain name services)

 

[Dave_Z]

If you read carefully she said that i can USE IT FOR domain registration when i specified in detail the niche of the site (domain names registration reselling and domain name services)

And there's the problem. That was what was thought, perceived, whatever to
be the answer, but it's possible it's not what eNom's rep intended to reply.

Hmm, assuming mst didn't read my post, I guess I wasn't alone in thinking this
as well:

for me this just says that you are able to register any name as long as it isn't already registered.. nothing more, nothing less..

Of course, no one really knows unless someone from eNom spoke up on this.

(Got me chuckling there, RR...)

 

[dotnom]

If the domain was free to be registered what is the point to ask for their permission ?
Does this have any logic ?

Apart from this i describe in detail the domain i wanted to register (something between aenom - zenom.com), i registered the name the days of this email conversation and not before which means this was indeed related with enom's reply

I also noticed the last few days that i received many reputation points to some forums for this topic. I assume there are people with similar or worse experiences with enom or just express their support. Thanks!

 

[Dave_Z]

If the domain was free to be registered what is the point to ask for their permission ?

If you're, say, one of their ETPs, your agreement with them has one answer.

 

[mst0192]

If you read carefully she said that i can USE IT FOR domain registration when i specified in detail the niche of the site (domain names registration reselling and domain name services)

Do you consider the name ( because it contains the name of enom.com , in the example before benom.com ) violates the enom.com copyright or do you believe in general there is any problem to use it for this purpose and with this kind of services as an ETP reseller of enom ?

she didn't say "no, a name like benom.com/cenom.com/denom.com/etc.. doesn't violate our copyright and you are free to register the domain and to use it for the purpose of reselling domains.."

instead she simply said "if the name you are looking to register is available, you would be able to use it for domain registration..."

how do you imply that the answer you got is giving you the confirmation to use such a domain for reseller-services? for me its just a typical vague answer from someone at the support-department who isn't allowed to give any legal information.

anyway, good luck in that case!
(and sorry for my bad english)