discuss We Must and Can Fix This

[Bob Hawkes]

I hope that this can be a thread around the issue of professional behaviour on NamePros, including but not limited to, bullying. I would ask that this is a thread about principles and ideas and suggestions related to the issue, and is not the place to rehash what anyone did or did not do.

So, I would like to start off with these points that I hope we can discuss:

1. I think unintentionally most of us are bullying sometimes on NPs.
2. I think our community would be better and stronger if we could eliminate bullying.
3. I think we can eliminate it.
4. Eliminating it is not as hard as we might think.
5. Rather than hamper meaningful discussion, removing bullying will make the discussion more valuable.

I know some will immediately disagree with calling it bullying, but please read my next post with an open mind. Others will say, yes there is some bullying but only by a tiny minority. It is not something I am part of the problem in. I am not so sure. Note that I said unintentionally.

The really exciting part is I am totally convinced we can do this! I was not even sure 24 hrs ago. I had a sleepless night and day to think more and interacted with various people. But we can together do this!

Some may be saying, but will this help me sell domain names? Surprisingly, at least long term, I think the answer is yes!

I welcome all NPs members, yes all one million of you, to work with us in doing this. It will be faster, easier and more positive than you probably think. This is not an us and them situation. I absolutely hope everyone will get on board.

Bob

 

[Lord Antares]

Are you sure? No put downs, no name calling, no belittling, no spreading of false information, no untrue statements affecting others?

It's interesting that you bring that up.

I've only seen put downs in cases where there was spreading of false information. I 100% endorse those put downs.

If someone hypes up a new, shitty TLD and makes up sales figures and statistics for the benefit of that TLD, that person must absolutely be called out. In fact, that happened just recently. I think it was the .best TLD but I might be mistaken. I didn't care enough to remember.

I suppose you would classify a lot of the posts in that thread as bullying, but I would disagree. It could only hinder new members if all the ''negative'' comments in that thread were removed and only the positive ones left because it would paint a misleading and flat-out false picture of said TLD.

What is false or unsupported (in other words, bullshit) should absolutely be called out.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Is that really a bad thing?

Heated exchanges can be an absolutely good thing if they are about the ideas.
When they become personalized attacks they are not.
When they bring in people who are not part of the discussion.
When they spread untrue information.
This is a problem. But we can solve it. In a way that will make the issues that your hold strongly hold have more, not less, clarity. The tone of some of the debate takes away from the good arguments that your expertise could bring.
Bob

 

[xynames]

It's interesting that you bring that up.

I've only seen put downs in cases where there was spreading of false information. I 100% endorse those put downs.

If someone hypes up a new, sh*tty TLD and makes up sales figures and statistics for the benefit of that TLD, that person must absolutely be called out. In fact, that happened just recently. I think it was the .best TLD but I might be mistaken. I didn't care enough to remember.

I suppose you would classify a lot of the posts in that thread as bullying, but I would disagree. It could only hinder new members if all the ''negative'' comments in that thread were removed and only the positive ones left because it would paint a misleading and flat-out false picture of said TLD.

What is false or unsupported (in other words, bullsh*t) should absolutely be called out.

What you refer to in the .best thread, is pretty much what started this whole issue, in a thread involving the .live extension. At least, that's the way many of us saw it.

 

[xynames]

<<Heated exchanges can be an absolutely good thing if they are about the ideas.
When they become personalized attacks they are not.
When they bring in people who are not part of the discussion.
When they spread untrue information.
This is a problem. But we can solve it. In a way that will make the issues that your hold strongly hold have more, not less, clarity. The tone of some of the debate takes away from the good arguments that your expertise could bring.>>

This is what I am talking about. If you keep repeating what you think is true, at length, does it become more true?

All of these words WOULD be true, if they actually applied to this forum. But I don't even think that they do.

Sometimes we could use a little more professionality, I admitted that myself. But bullying? As Dr. McCoy used to say, Poppycock!

 

[Lord Antares]

What you refer to in the .best thread, is pretty much what started this whole issue, in a thread involving the .live extension. At least, that's the way many of us saw it.

I'm not active on this forum so I come and go.

So what's the issue here? Are the people defending the inflated TLDs the bullied and the ones who call them out the bullies? If so, that's not bullying. When the day comes when you are not allowed to call out bullshit, THEN we will have a problem.

 

[johnn]

Not much you can do. That's why I don't post much anymore.
You can cure a disease but you can't fix a habit/personality.

This place is not like it used to 15 years ago.
People here just spend the time to google for information then post them here to argue that the other one is wrong.
The place is flooded with new lazy members who will ask the same questions and post crap names and rush people to appraise.

Let pray and may be someday good things will happen.

 

[equity78]

As a kid I grew up and dealt with bullying, as I got older and bigger I looked out for kids who got bullied, some of them kids with Down Syndrome. What's going on here on the whole is not bullying, it's an insult to real victims of bullying (some who have taken their lives).

" What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach."

Some people are diametrically opposed to the investment strategies of others.

To be fair I am not sure some people have an investment strategy, (their choice) Namepros is their social club.

I have been doing this a long time, dealt with trolls, true trolls when I started the .tv sub forum 14 years ago, (this was a whole different place back then). Like some guys told me, Raymond if I disagree with someone I am coming at them hard, especially if I think they are promoting misinformation, let them ban me, I will be back with a new email, ip adress and account.

The mods do a good job in cleaning things up and there are some rules I think every member has to learn it might help them not engage in disrespectful conversation and just report a thread, one example Rule 2.6

Not too long ago, we did add a rule that prohibits threads from being created solely for that purpose:

• Rule 2.6. Do not create a thread solely for the purpose of reporting a sale unless at least the item’s full name (e.g., domain name or business name) and exact sale price are shared within it. The exception to this rule is showcase threads where everyone can share partial details about their sales (e.g., “the name starts with insurance and sold for $XX,XXX”) in the same thread (not limited to 1 showcase thread but rule 1.13 applies).

That way those who think someone posting a "Look at me thread" can let the mods handle it.

 

[xynames]

Lord Antares:
At the risk of getting deleted or censured, what happened was that someone came along and posted that he had sold a domain of his in the .live extension for so much money that it had paid for the renewal fee on ALL of his .live domains and some of his .life domains, going out six years. The facts came out slowly, over the course of the thread because after making that post the OP stated that he had to go on vacation, and disappeared.

While OP was not posting, various people came in and debated about whether it was a good thing or not to pay your renewal fees out for years, and debated over whether the OP had actually paid his fees out on all of his .live domains or some, and also debated as to whether OP had really actually made any sales at all, because OP had never supplied any proof of any sales now or before. During the course of discussion the issue of whether or not the one defending one side of the argument had ever sold a domain name was brought out as well, and this became an issue too in that the defender of that perspective claimed that someone had incorrectly stated that he had sold no domains, when in reality he had made two small three figure sales, and also was claiming, without proof that he had sold some others too.

I think that's about the summary of it.

 

[equity78]

Lord Antares:
At the risk of getting deleted or censured, what happened was that someone came along and posted that he had sold a domain of his in the .live extension for so much money that it had paid for the renewal fee on ALL of his .live domains and some of his .life domains, going out six years. The facts came out slowly, over the course of the thread because after making that post the OP stated that he had to go on vacation, and disappeared.

While OP was not posting, various people came in and debated about whether it was a good thing or not to pay your renewal fees out for years, and debated over whether the OP had actually paid his fees out on all of his .live domains or some, and also debated as to whether OP had really actually made any sales at all, because OP had never supplied any proof of any sales now or before. During the course of discussion the issue of whether or not the one defending one side of the argument had ever sold a domain name was brought out as well, and this became an issue as well as that the defender of that perspective claimed that someone had incorrectly stated that he had sold no domains, when in reality he had made two small three figure sales, and also was claiming, without proof that he had sold some others too.

I think that's about the summary of it.

And @Eric Lyon and @Paul Buonopane did a good job by adding rule 2.6 it probably could have shut it down if there was going to be no real information.

Not too long ago, we did add a rule that prohibits threads from being created solely for that purpose:

• Rule 2.6. Do not create a thread solely for the purpose of reporting a sale unless at least the item’s full name (e.g., domain name or business name) and exact sale price are shared within it. The exception to this rule is showcase threads where everyone can share partial details about their sales (e.g., “the name starts with insurance and sold for $XX,XXX”) in the same thread (not limited to 1 showcase thread but rule 1.13 applies).

 

[xynames]

People here just spend the time to google for information then post

Right, what I object to are posts that state "in theory" how things should be or must be.

At least, I object when such posts contradict my real world experience.

But then the poster comes back, again arguing based on theory, as to why he is right.

Etc. etc.

 

[Lord Antares]

Lord Antares:
At the risk of getting deleted or censured, what happened was that someone came along and posted that he had sold a domain of his in the .live extension for so much money that it had paid for the renewal fee on ALL of his .live domains and some of his .life domains, going out six years. The facts came out slowly, over the course of the thread because after making that post the OP stated that he had to go on vacation, and disappeared.

While OP was not posting, various people came in and debated about whether it was a good thing or not to pay your renewal fees out for years, and debated over whether the OP had actually paid his fees out on all of his .live domains or some, and also debated as to whether OP had really actually made any sales at all, because OP had never supplied any proof of any sales now or before. During the course of discussion the issue of whether or not the one defending one side of the argument had ever sold a domain name was brought out as well, and this became an issue as well as that the defender of that perspective claimed that someone had incorrectly stated that he had sold no domains, when in reality he had made two small three figure sales, and also was claiming, without proof that he had sold some others too.

I think that's about the summary of it.

Lol.

It really does remind me of the .best thread.

 

[xynames]

Yes.

Well anyway, this thread here is harmless. Those of us who feel that it is unnecessary have spoken our peace.

Let the show go on!

 

[Steven McEvoy]

Liberals....

 

[Joe N]

@Bob Hawkes, I can appreciate what you're trying to do here. I know it comes from a good place.

For my part, I think the mods have already done a good job of putting measures in place to ensure that the forum can police itself and weed out any nonconstructive content. People just need to be a little better informed about proper use of the report button (myself included).

Personally, if I have to accept facing the odd harsh criticism in order to have access to the opinions of experienced members who speak knowledgeably and to the point (if bluntly), I'm more than okay with that.

There's absolutely a social hierarchy of sorts on this forum, and there should be. Speaking with authority and implied knowledge about a topic is something that needs to be earned by taking your lumps, putting in the time to learn with humility, and eventually growing into a domain investor who has experienced some success.

The above is true of any industry. Those who try to shirk this process get put in their place. Is that bullying? I prefer to think of it as Darwinism at its best.

 

[Joe N]

Oh, and I could get behind the agree/disagree buttons. Although sometimes I really do just dislike what someone has said!

 

[Josh R]

I have a broad question on this topic (which I'm not saying holds any weight to anyone's arguments as I'm very lost in this whole debacle).

If I say that somebody is making me feel like the victim of bullying, does that make it bullying?

btw: I have a very close family member with autism and I've seen what bullying looks like in many different forms and from many different angles.

 

[mr-x]

That's a terrible idea - not bullying
That's a terrible idea, why don't you learn to read. - bullying, rude, anti-social, whatever you want to call it.

That's what the mute / ignore feature is for.

 

[Joe N]

That's a terrible idea - not bullying
That's a terrible idea, why don't you learn to read. - bullying, rude, anti-social, whatever you want to call it.

That's what the mute / ignore feature is for.

Actually that one should be reported to the mods.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

I have a broad question on this topic (which I'm not saying holds any weight to anyone's arguments as I'm very lost in this whole debacle).

If I say that somebody is making me feel like the victim of bullying, does that make it bullying?

btw: I have a very close family member with autism and I've seen what bullying looks like in many different forms and from many different angles.

It is an interesting question you pose. My opinion would be that alone does not mean it is bullying if a reasonable person would have not labelled the action bullying. That said, I think in HR related cases some consideration is given to the impact on the (alleged) victim, I believe (possibly incorrectly).

Bob

 

[Bob Hawkes]

So some of those who have responded that everything is fine and as it should be and no change is in order, to help me understand your thinking, could you please, if you have the time, help me see how some of the possible changes, mentioned here or elsewhere recently, would interfere with your ability to clearly offer wisdom based on your expertise in the business.

1. Change like/dislike to agree/disagree to make it easier to express that you do not agree
2. Factually untrue statements should not be posted or reposted (and corrected if later found to be untrue)
3. Comments should deal with the ideas being discussed and not personalities expressing views
4. When you are giving your opinion, as opposed to stating a clearly proven fact, start with "In my opinion...." This doesn't change at all what you say, other than that it is your opinion. Of course ideally you would strengthen that opinion by also saying what it is based on (e.g. 'I sold 25 brandable last year, and based on what sold I would say blah blah...")
5. We should not ascribe motives to others, since we cannot read minds.
6. While we can vociferously argue an idea, conclusion, suggestion etc., that should not stray into commenting on characteristics of the person presenting the idea other than relevant, factual points (e.g. he has only been in NPs for 3 days is a factual and possibly relevant point! ).
7. Those who are in no way involved in discussing a point should not be introduced into it ('this is a crazy idea like those promoted all the time by...")
8. We should not call people demeaning names (other than their name or username, if they selected a demeaning one what can we do? ).
9. We should not misrepresent what someone else has said. Best is to use the quote feature so the reader can see what was said and context. We should not selectively quote with intention to deliberately change meaning.

I am really trying to understand how these, for example, limit your ability to helpfully contribute to the domain learning of all. I am not posting this to be argumentative, and really honestly would appreciate guidance to help me understand the other view.

There's absolutely a social hierarchy of sorts on this forum, and there should be

I don't disagree with this that you said @Joe Nichols and nothing I am hoping our community might change infringes on that, in my opinion, other than responsibility for basic professionalism and truthfulness.

Anyway, thanks in advance, even if you have time to just comment on 1 or 2, to explain how that limits the wisdom of social hierarchy being effectively disseminated.

Have a good night everyone.

Bob