Domain Empire

information VPN.com LLC has filed a multimillion lawsuit

Spaceship Spaceship
Watch

Lox

____Top Member
Impact
12,399
VPN.com LLC has filed a multimillion lawsuit against long time domain investor George Dikian (California), Qiang Du (Hong Kong) and John Doe at the US District Court (California).

The lawsuit involves a $250,000 payment in Bitcoin and $6.625 million in owed commissions on multiple transactions involving 96 premium 2N.com and 3N.com domains.

read more
 
26
•••
The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
2
•••
Pro-tip:

In the affidavit supporting your "Memornadum", try not to say that you don't know where your "well-known" friend is...

Screen Shot 2022-08-29 at 9.38.19 AM.png

Screen Shot 2022-08-29 at 9.41.55 AM.png

Screen Shot 2022-08-29 at 9.39.32 AM.png



Screen Shot 2022-08-29 at 9.36.13 AM.png


A minute or two with Google Maps would have made this obvious...


 
2
•••
Qiang Du is still a mystery to me. I'm not sure how common of a name Qiang Du is, but it looks like the alleged ZTE holdings may have noting to do with the California Qiang Du that sued in 2017 for the theft of BSH.com?

It's a common enough name. Since the odds are low that there was any actual Qiang Du with whom VPN was corresponding, then the question of which Qiang Du was intended to be impersonated is an open question. How many domainers are named "Qiang Du" might be a better question.

We may find out if VPN obtains a default judgment against a nominal "Qiang Du" and then attempts to obtain Du's domains, since obviously there is at least one Qiang Du who will litigate to keep them.
 
2
•••
Looks like it's been taken down.

Show attachment 228537


Something of note in the archive.org entires of Intermediar.com, is:

11 February 2022 = review from @garyford

Show attachment 228538

compared to:

10 March 2022 = removed the name Gary Ford and replaced it with Qiang Du

Show attachment 228539

...

The reason I say of note, is if, the data/dates is accurate in archive.org, then why would a Qiang Du of the United States have left a review on or before March 10th if it wasn't until April 23rd that Intermediar would tell VPN that Qiang Du had partially funded the transaction by depositing $2.2mil into intermediar; also, March 8th seems to be the day Qiang Du approached VPN.

Sparking curiousity to ask:

(1) Why does the review say Qiang Du of the United States? considering VPN lawsuit lists Qiang Du Hong Kong

(2) Was that Qiang Du review visible at the time VPN was negotiating with whom they believed to be the real George Dikian? considering this odd, if so, since it was alleged that George Dikian was the one who was insistent on using Intermediar over escrow.com
see the Gary Ford guy on here, guy was an obvious shill

https://www.namepros.com/threads/do-not-use-intermediar-com-silverbellxchange-com.1272591/
 
2
•••
👑 @=ThreadOP= @Lox 👑

I'm not sure if you dove into this 🕳️ yet; 🤔 if you 🕶️ any 🥕 or🐇❔
 
Last edited:
2
•••
👑 @=ThreadOP= @Lox 👑

I'm not sure if you dove into this 🕳️ yet; 🤔 if you 🕶️ any 🥕 or🐇❔

I have asked x person to make in-person visit and there is no record of renting the office (po box) in Beethovenstraat building. The business/company is not registered in t NL chamber of commerce and has no legitimate physical address nor person name. Other "intermediar" companies registered in NL do not act as a collection agent or do not provide escrow service.

VPN & co just don't want to dig deeper, more like playing in the $and.

(but, I don't need to tell you that you should get paid for DD ... 1000s of dollars.)

Regards
 
Last edited:
2
•••
2
•••
I have asked x person to make in-person visit and there is no record of renting the office (po box) in Beethovenstraat building. The business/company is not registered in t NL chamber of commerce and has no legitimate physical address nor person name. Other "intermediar" companies registered in NL do not act as a collection agent or do not provide escrow service.

Oh how thy world is connected...

I'm walking distance to the Mountain View business address listed for the assumed California domainer Qiang Du. Several business at that address, at a relatively busy intersection.

Always fun to have a cup of coffee with another domainer.

But per the VPN lawsuit this case alleges a Hong Kong Qiang Du.
 
Last edited:
2
•••
This case seems to have it all: A fake website, mysterious domain investors, unheard of commissions and some awesome domains...

Not that this case/thread needs any more popCorn, but there is some additional headlining theatrics related to the California Qiang Du. But again, California Du may have nothing to do with Hong Kong Du.

(1) There is a current California case involving Qiang Du: https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/36223659/Reflex_Media,_Inc_et_al_v_Successfulmatchcom_et_al

(2) Qiang Du (California) might be the registrant of SugarDaddyMeet.com. This domain was in the fake news earlier this year after it seems to have been alleged that, "Lauren Boebert, a US Congresswoman from Colorado, apparently was an escort on the site and met the Koch family and then Ted Cruz because of it." ... CNN reached out to a representative of SugarDaddyMeet.com who identified only as "Alice" who supported Lauren Boeberts claim that she had never used the site.
 
Last edited:
2
•••
John Doe used a VPN and they can't locate him?

If John Doe used a VPN Service that really doesn't log the IP address of the users, then, sure he can't be located.
Besides, it's practically difficult to track every single request that flows via VPN servers.

VPN service providers in general filter out only high profile user visits (secretly), and most wanted criminals (as per police/court order).

For that matter, I strongly believe that the VPN servers are run by certain elites, 'in order to secretly monitor' their opponents - including political enemies, etc.
 
2
•••
The Plaintiff has replied...

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cacd.855964/gov.uscourts.cacd.855964.51.0.pdf

Screenshot 2023-07-20 at 8.44.36 AM.png


If I had to bet on who would win this round, my money would be on the Plaintiff. I believe it is unlikely the Court will find the arguments compelling against identifying the person doing business under the name George Dikian.

On the overall facts, however, the argument that one should be held responsible for criminal acts committed in one's name because one allegedly was "negligent" in having their identity stolen, seems like a stretch.
 
Last edited:
2
•••
For example, if someone steals my car and then commits a crime using said vehicle, am I responsible for crimes committed after the theft?

Two important concepts in negligence are...

1. Foreseeability - Is the harm flowing from the alleged negligence reasonably foreseeable in the ordinary course of events. Another formulation is whether the harm is one of the natural consequences you might expect from someone doing that sort thing. On one end of the scale you might have, "I lost my loaded gun near a high school." With the car, I might want to know whether you left it unlocked on the street with the keys in it. In both of those instances, you might expect someone to come along and take them. The gun, however, is inherently dangerous. While you might expect the car to be stolen, it's not quite as clear that the thief is going to run someone down with it. The gun, on the other hand, is the sort of thing that is pretty much made for doing harm.

2. Superseding Cause - In the chain of events from "he was negligent" to "I was harmed", is there some kind of intervening agency which is a greater proximate cause of my harm than the alleged negligence. I left my car on the street unlocked with the keys in it. Someone stole my car and drove away with it. They then picked up a hitchhiker. The hitchhiker got a ride to the home of his wife's lover and killed him. Now... there's a whole lot of independent agency between my leaving the car unlocked and some guy getting shot in a lover's triangle. He didn't get shot because I left my car unlocked. He was shot because of a chain of events having nothing to do with me.

With the gun scenario, on the other hand, the very reason why one must exercise appropriate care is to prevent precisely that sort of thing - someone getting ahold of it and shooting someone with it. While, yes, the person who picks up my gun left near the high school is an independent agency, it is reasonable to expect that someone with bad intentions will put that gun to its intended use - i.e. shooting someone. Cars, maybe not so much. Email accounts? You decide.

So, the questions are - leaving aside the question of "what is the ordinary level of care" one should exercise with their email account.

(1) Is it a naturally foreseeable consequence of failing to adequately protect your digital identity that someone else is going to be ripped off to the tune of $XXXXXX?

(2) Does the intentional criminal behavior of the hacker constitute a superseding cause which cuts off liability for Dikian, as being more of a proximate cause of the resulting alleged harm?
 
2
•••
Obviously,this comment has the hindsight advantage, but that "sketchy escrow" company should have been a huge red flag. This is a small industry, not oblivious to appraisal scams, so why a broker would trust an unknown escrow company like Intermediar is beyond me. Maybe the thought of a multi million dollar commission clouded judgement. But c'mon man!

1689952606245.png
 
2
•••
So they would have gone with Epik Escrow, but they went with Intermediar Escrow? Epik Escrow wouldn't have been a good choice.

Intermediar was 100% fake company. Never registered in NL or EU countries. Checked the address , asked the office -address renting agent to verify that they are in the building … nope.

Regards
 
Last edited:
2
•••
2
•••
@NamePros has entered the chat:

In the latest round of filings, a curious thread on Namepros has been introduced into evidence. In particular, this thread about "intermediar.com" - the fake "escrow service" that was used in the scheme to swindle VPN LLC:

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cacd.855964/gov.uscourts.cacd.855964.78.3.pdf


Show attachment 246948

That thread, for reference, is here:

https://www.namepros.com/threads/do...-intermediar-for-escrow-transactions.1266786/

One interesting feature of that thread is a Namepros user who shows up to claim that intermediar.com is a legit escrow site. As many have pointed out, a few moments inspection of that site at the time would have been sufficient to determine it was a scam site.

IMHO, it would be worthwhile to find out what, if any, contact or log information Namepros might have on that user who showed up to defend intermediar.com as a legit site (along with other third-party discovery relevant to the history of that domain name).

I'm not sure anyone at Namepros is terribly interested in following this lawsuit any further, since the gritty reality of litigation is not "as seen on TV". Developments are slow, and often tedious. So, do let me know whether I should continue to post updates on it.

The exhibit linked above is part of a filing to re-arrange the schedule for the proceedings going forward. The Amended Complaint has been filed:

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cacd.855964/gov.uscourts.cacd.855964.77.0.pdf

VPN has dropped the demand for the phantom commissions and is principally now looking to get $250k back along with punitive damages:


Show attachment 246949

I have no idea what is the point of a permanent injunction "freezing" a domain name, and I doubt a registrar is going to understand an order to "freeze" a domain name either. Sounds chilly. "Locking" has a meaning, but that can be done at room temperature.

The reason for requesting the modified schedule is that VPN's attention has expanded to include the defendant's son, as detailed to some extent (with redactions) in this brief, noting that "Dikian" had mentioned that his son had access to his email address:

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cacd.855964/gov.uscourts.cacd.855964.78.1.pdf


Show attachment 246950

VPN offers "two" explanations for the alleged continued unauthorized access to the relevant email account. There are, of course, more than two possible explanations for that, but the only explanations of interest to VPN are ones which lead to a recovery against Dikian. Notably, the Amended Complaint doesn't make any claims involving Dikian's son.


Show attachment 246951

I don't know about this judge, but arguing things which aren't proven can be annoying to a judge. Notice the leap from Dikian admitting that his son accessed his email account in the evidence, to his son being "the only other person to have accessed" the account in the argument. Does the evidence show that Dikian's son was the only other person to have accessed the account? Well, no, it doesn't. Clearly, Dikian's testimony states that his son accessed the account. That is sufficient to suggest that Dikian's son may have been involved. But overselling your evidence to make an exaggeration that he is the ONLY other person who could have accessed the account detracts from the point. Obviously, any email account that is shared among two people is less secure than one used by one person.

What is difficult to assess, when the words of a deposition are rendered in print, is the demeanor of the witness. Additionally, depositions go on for seven hours and the selected pieces used in argument may seem different out of context. I'm curious to know, for example, what is the technical proficiency of the Dikians. Even from the excerpts, the elder Dikian seems a bit scatterbrained and not tremendously attentive to events concerning his email address from several years ago. Of course, people in depositions can put on various acts, but it is also true that sitting at a table with a camera pointed at you while someone fires off questions concerning a parade of documents can be disorienting and intimidating to some people, who knows. But someone put together the intermediar.com website and constructed a fake Dutch identity around it. Hence, one wonders whether either of the Dikians had the chops to do that, or would have had to enlist the services of yet another party in the scheme.

In any event, short of Mike or Brett using RECAP to copy the PACER filings into the Courtlistener archive, it costs me ten cents a page to download this stuff to have it captured and copied to Courtlistener. That may not be worthwhile for the two or three people still following this thing, but if someone else with PACER and RECAP is interested, there's a couple of more documents which may shed further light on the technical claims made by VPN, albeit without an expert.
Thanks John for your contribution. I still read this thread. But of course it's up to you whether you decide it's worth paying for the Court docs to keep me and others informed/entertained.. :)
 
2
•••
not sure what someone thinks they are getting out of not completing a transaction but good luck to both parties.
 
1
•••
There is another thread about this same person about Gato.com. I am afraid both are scam and not involving the real domain owner.

Screenshot_2022-07-29-09-04-15-228_com.android.chrome.jpg
 
Last edited:
1
•••
1
•••
1
•••
What do you think? Is it the real domain owner involved? He is a very rich guy owning 2 numbers domain and a bunch of 3 numbers domains. They are might be more than 100 millions dollars in value. How can he involve in a scam? It might be spoofing even it is said not spoofing in this case.
 
Last edited:
1
•••
What an interesting story! I got stuck going down the rabbit hole of articles and comments everywhere that I blew all my free time to get other stuff done. haha. Forgive me for asking as I don't know all the "big players", but since a lot of people feel it was hacked/spoofed, why hasn't the Dikian guy or his legal team voiced his opinion on what happened?
 
1
•••
What an interesting story! I got stuck going down the rabbit hole of articles and comments everywhere that I blew all my free time to get other stuff done. haha. Forgive me for asking as I don't know all the "big players", but since a lot of people feel it was hacked/spoofed, why hasn't the Dikian guy or his legal team voiced his opinion on what happened?
Might be after he was informed about the legal issue. If you have 100 millions dolars, you don't have any time to market your domains, nor have time to join forums to read news. I worked to a boss who have more than 100 millions $. He even didn't aware he has a house in suburb area, until some one reach him asking if the house owned by him. His other house, valued more than 2 millions $, had swimming pool full of moss, hasn't been visited for 2 years. He has 48 cars, from the luxury brands, most were not even used in a year.
 
Last edited:
1
•••
Did he have memory issues or was he on drugs?

He has some royalties from airplane and many products. Very clever guy, even a profesor in US University. But assets are not a problem for him, since he has everything.
 
Last edited:
1
•••
why hasn't the Dikian guy or his legal team voiced his opinion on what happened?

I would imagine they will do so in court, where it matters, and that they may take up the issues raised by the other side's out of court statements.
 
Last edited:
1
•••
  • The sidebar remains visible by scrolling at a speed relative to the page’s height.
Back