question URDP? Give up domains?

[WhoaDomain.com]

Hello guys,

Without saying too much.

The largest USA provider of voice,cable,and internet company name starting with V.

Reached out to me couple of days ago.

Because I registered their TM in .com domains.

Facts.

1.These particular domains have one drop each( I didn't check before regging). And we're owned for 2 years each a piece.
2. This "mark" I've seen is registered with 40-50 other domains by other registrants other than V. Some are exact matches in other exotic extensions like .kr or .PL etc etc.
3. These other domains have been registered years ago and are still owned by current registrant. How?
4. If you have more than one domain containing the TM are you more exposed to losing a case ?

Some are even owned by the likes of Buydomains.com and DomainMarket.com (Mike Mann)

Companies with ,I assume, big budgets and big time lawyers on retainer.

Me? No.

I really don't understand how these other domains get to keep their domains while I'm sent pretty scary emails with "high pressure" tactics with deadlines to simply hand over my domains.

Two laws were mentioned. Lanham act and Anticybersquatting Consumer Protection Act.

Also they mention the mere "act of registering TM domains is automatically in bad faith".

Then of course they point out that have been awarded millions in such cases against TM offenders. (Scare tactic)

In which case I responded since they mentioned their big money awards for each case why hasn't V gone after and won cases for all the other 30-40 domains containing V's TM? Surely the incentive is there if they are so confident in winning such cases which end in big money awards.

They ignored responding to the question. Saying these are questions best asked of my own legal counsel.

See with obvious black and white straight forward laws like the lanham act or ACPA how the hell do the current domain owners of domains containing V's TM still own their domains? Some were since 2008.

My domains are currently pointed to the default landing page for the registrar. No pay per click ads.

I will say this, V company has won big cases in the millions.

It's really an easy way for these companies to get domains for nothing. Just send threats and mentioned big money awards.

As a domainer is it stupid to assume you can just email V and tell them to do what they need to do. And tell them if they proceed with a case that I officially state via email I would gladly surrender the domains without contest immediate but not before they actually file a case.

It's almost like playing chicken with a big 50 ton semi truck on the highway.

The threat is only really valid if they proceed. Although companies like this have unlimited resources so they can just proceed with $3000-$5000 costing court cases just to get the domains they want and for PR purposes add to their roster of won cases. So win win for them.

But then again there are those 40-50 domains that are way more "offending" to their trademark than mine is.

I don't feel safe at all. Pretty scary. I feel like just surrending these domains and move on. That's what Captain obvious would say. He would also say never reg TM domains.

Is it enough or isn't it understood by TM lawyers that in court if it is pointed out that there are 40-50 other domains containing their mark that have been registered for 5-10 years prior to mine ever being registered that are owned by other domainers and not V that this is enough to throw out a case?

Still I feel a company with unlimited resources and throw it's weigh around and do whatever it wants.

I'm sure some of the owners of the other offending "V" domains are not rich. Just like me. Yet they are holding their domains for years in some cases.

I'm sure V has had their TM for years too.

Also what about domain owners from China ? I see alot with domains with V's mark owned by Chinese and most with privacy . Does this provide them some protection? I doubt it.

And talk about blatant. The domains owned by buydomains and domainmarket have salespages with buy now buttons. If that's not blatant I don't know what is.

I even called buydomains about their domain they owned containing V's TM and ask how they can own it.

They said their lawyers advise them on what domains they can invest in that does not leave them exposed to lawsuit.

If that's not a good enough confidence builder I don't know what is?

Or would that be stupid to assume that since buydomains lawyers gave them a greenlight then my domains should be in the clear?

I have never reached out to this V company. Or have any content related to V's goods and services. Not even a sales lander.

Part of me feels it's really up to the big V to choose to file a case or not.

It's not fair. If you give in to fear you give up domains but you never know if they would have really proceeded with a case.

But if you don't and they do proceed you have to pay big money.

Couldn't I just say " go ahead file a case" and verbally tell them via email that if they do I'll just surrender the domains without a fight.

If a court reads this email. Would that show I'm willing to comply and therefore won't award V big money just the domains?

Or is it up to V to request to be paid to cover their legal fees?

Would the court grant them this request?(Probably right?)

I can see how legal counsel of V would be inclined to proceed since I'd be liable for paying the fees. Win win for lawyers.

The legal counsel for V made sure to point out that they ......

"aggressively go after TM offenders who register V's TM"

Which is a bit of a lie since a quick check via whois I find 30-40 domains that I know of that have been registered for years by other domainers.

How can they say they aggressively go after TM offenders yet these other domains exist not owned by V?

Can TM holders "cherry pick" which TM offending domains they choose to go after? And leave the rest alone? Do courts pay attention to this and consider it wrong and grounds to throw out such cases?

I can understand if a domain is being used to trick people or defame the TM holder or benefit from the popularity of a mark by putting ads.

But blank or registrar landing pages? Do courts take this into consideration? Could I still lose?

It goes without saying I will tread lightly.

If you want to know more about my domains and V's domains owned by "not V".

PM me.

Sigh******....... I don't need this headache in my life.

PS. I'll only discuss the details with people I've talked to before via PM. ( You know who you are)

Sorry I suspect V's legal counsel is probably on here reading this. So only people I know pm me. Thanks.

@jberryhill

 

[hawkeye]

What if I sold it instead to one other domain holders like Mike Mann who owns another V domain?

There you go, sell an infringing domain you've been contacted by the TM owners about as to being such, to someone else (which you probably won't warn or tell them of) so you can put a few dollars in your pocket, and let them deal with the fallout and TM issues! And then wonder why domaining is considered to be filled with shady scammers. ...good f-ing grief!

 

[DNWon]

I'm surprised at you. You've been here long enough to know better than to register those type names. It doesn't matter one iota that others have done the same, have more of their trademarks in their portfolio or for longer. You won the UDRP lottery. So now, you can answer the UDRP complaint, which I don't recommend in this case. You can ignore the complaint, in which case you'll most likely lose anyway, and perhaps be rewarded with follow up litigation, or you can turn the names over to Big V before the UDRP and hope it just all goes away. I would take option 3, that's what I would do!

 

[Kate]

It doesn't matter what others own in their portfolios. TM holders cannot go after each offender so they pipeline/prioritize cases. Pointing at others does not constitute a valid defense.
If these names are indeed bad faith registrations (sounds like they are), you apologize for your 'noob' mistake and you offer to delete the domains, unless they want them for defensive purposes.
But TM holders own too many domains they didn't want because of squatters.
Why do even keep names like these ? They are liabilities.
You are not a 'little guy' fighting against Evil Corp, you are just a TM offender so do the right thing.

 

[Kate]

Can someone explain why some V domains regged since 2008 still haven't been taken by V?

Some of their regs I swear are pretty stupid and makes no sense.

You can be sure all the offending names are in a database and being monitored on a daily basis. And here we are talking about a company that aggressively defends its brands, and is familiar with UDRP. The large corporations monitor domain registrations, so if you register something bad they will know the very same day, or next day.

There are too many offenders to deal with, so they prioritize cases. They will probably go after phishing domains first. Then the names that are parked and monetized at the expense of their TMs. The domains that are not resolving or showing a placeholder are less of a priority. If anything, you are paying for defensive regs on their behalf. As long as you are not using the names they might decide it's not worth chasing you right now but they are watching anyway, and they are ready to step up as soon as you do something stupid.

On the occasion, the TM holders will want to make an example out of somebody just to show that they enforce their brands vigorously. If you are based in USA, then you are within reach of the US legal system and they can sue for damages under ACPA. It doesn't happen often, but it has happened to some domainers and it's painful. If you live in Zimbabwe then UDRP still works to take down domains but it is costly. And again, this is to neuter domains they don't want in the first place.

In your case, it could be due to the fact that you registered not just one infringing domain but dozens if I understand right (in UDRP parlance: a pattern of bad faith registrations). So they may think you are a bigger threat and you may be up to something nasty. Phishing is certainly their primary concern. That is why TM holders are so aggressive even when no real harm was done.

 

[Silentptnr]

I see no good in registering these types of names. These types of domains 99.999% of the time end up dropped with money down the drain.

I wouldn't even spend a penny or a minute of time on stuff like that. Too many alternatives. Even without the TM, those seem valueless.

 

[Kate]

Sitting reading all this. I wonder . Has anyone ever registered TM domains for the purpose to offer it to the TM holders for free just get your foot in the door so you can pitch them your other domains that aren't TM issue domains?

I hope this is not the way you pick up girls It would be like spilling wine on their dresses by 'accident' for the privilege of a conversation, because you are too shy to approach them (or just plain ugly). And hoping they will fall in love with the clumsy idiot.
It's not just stupid, it's desperate. And why would companies want to engage with a squatter in the first place ? They don't need that kind of additional workload, even if they have a legal team inhouse or lawyers on a retainer. Those regs have no added value, they are just a burden they'd rather avoid.
If you own valuable domains, then end users will come to you. Rather than waste money on dozens of TM domains, you could buy at least one nice, TM-free domain. Why make life difficult ?

 

[BaileyUK]

Blimey - how old are you ??. I thought we've seen the back of these type of presentations and arguments years ago. Putting a flimsy defence together doesn't make it right or defensible. Why on earth did you register them in the first place ? You don't seem to want to touch on that question in your elongated explanation.

if there's similar out there for sale - more fool them, I doubt anybody would buy unless your blurring your justifications, You must have money burning holes in you pocket

 

[tonyk2000]

It is likely the lawyers of this provider are set to submit UDRPs on behalf of their client, and they'll win these UDRPs. TM owner is not necessary aware that these domains do exists. This is where the related $$$ are - in lawyers pocket who were hired to protect TM. Not sure what might be the reason of registering these domain(s), as nobody including tm owners will pay anything close to aftermarket price for them. Parking?

In any case, just to save time, you might consider simply deleting the domains now. Whois will show Redemption Period status then, regardless of expiration dates, and they will likely end up in hugedomains portfolio after the drop. Depending on registrar, there may be built-in domain deletion functionality already, or a cust. service will do this by request. This way you'll at least not see your name or company in a public udrp history.

 

[hawkeye]

Is it worth V's time and money to go after the domain, and invest thousands into legal costs vs just paying a few hundred to buy the name?

I'd be pretty sure that 'V' has either in-house legal or on retainer legal, and they would be paying them whether they filled a UDRP or not, so why should they just go waste a 'few hundred' more on a domain squatter/infringer?

I dont know all the nuances about the cyber squatting, but I can say that if I buy a piece of land and want to hold it, it isnt "cyber squatting" like a domain. Arent there some similarities with property and domains?

Yes, you can just squat on someone's else's land or property while they're using it and demand they pay you to get off it. What's your home address, we'll get some tents and trailers, and we'll see how that works for you.

 

[MapleDots]

How much can you sell the domains for.... realistically?

Have you had any inquiries?

Now make your decision.... easy...

Its all about costs and measures

 

[dordomai]

I really don't understand how these other domains get to keep their domains while I'm sent pretty scary emails with "high pressure" tactics with deadlines to simply hand over my domains.

perhaps you were just unlucky, who knows.

Two laws were mentioned. Lanham act and Anticybersquatting Consumer Protection Act.

Also they mention the mere "act of registering TM domains is automatically in bad faith".

if you know what you are doing and there is no good other reason for doing so it is bad faith.

Then of course they point out that have been awarded millions in such cases against TM offenders. (Scare tactic)

it is true.

In which case I responded since they mentioned their big money awards for each case why hasn't V gone after and won cases for all the other 30-40 domains containing V's TM? Surely the incentive is there if they are so confident in winning such cases which end in big money awards.

we do not know how they select domains.

See with obvious black and white straight forward laws like the lanham act or ACPA how the hell do the current domain owners of domains containing V's TM still own their domains? Some were since 2008.

we do not know how many were not kept.

I

t's really an easy way for these companies to get domains for nothing. Just send threats and mentioned big money awards.

the domains are probably worthless they do not gain from this they want to defend their TM.

The threat is only really valid if they proceed. Although companies like this have unlimited resources so they can just proceed with $3000-$5000 costing court cases just to get the domains they want and for PR purposes add to their roster of won cases. So win win for them.

there is a high chance they will proceed with UDRP or lawsuit.

Is it enough or isn't it understood by TM lawyers that in court if it is pointed out that there are 40-50 other domains containing their mark that have been registered for 5-10 years prior to mine ever being registered that are owned by other domainers and not V that this is enough to throw out a case?

does not sound like a good defense.

Also what about domain owners from China ? I see alot with domains with V's mark owned by Chinese and most with privacy . Does this provide them some protection? I doubt it.

it is more difficult to sue them if they are overseas.

I even called buydomains about their domain they owned containing V's TM and ask how they can own it.

They said their lawyers advise them on what domains they can invest in that does not leave them exposed to lawsuit.

sounds like a generic reply. perhaps the lawyers are no aware of these domains.

i think you can lose up to 100k for a single domain, why take a chance? what payoff do you expect?

 

[mr-x]

Mike Mann isn't stupid. He'd know the domain is an issue. But since he has one of the issue domains on sale prominently on his site and he has huge nuts. He'd probably take it. But I want to know if this is even an option legally or am I liable if I do this?

I'm thinking yes. Pretty obvious.

This domain must be something they really want since it was just registered 1-18.

Why anyone consider proceeding? I guess most people hate being wrong and would proceed or try to just to not be wrong.

But two wrongs don't make a right. Never has.

Gonna have to eat the loss.

Thanks again.

Why are you inviting trouble for 10's of dollars?

 

[BaileyUK]

that's just plain stupid.

your obviously quite naïve about business. I wouldn't be surprised if V's legal haven't already identified your bad habits - and probably going to treat you like a bad child, just learn before it really does cost you

 

[hawkeye]

@Avatar629 didn't we discuss a Realtor TM related domains with you like a year or two ago? Have you learn anything?

Probably not, with the desperation to cover renewals for over 11,000 domains.

 

[karmaco]

If Mike Mann jumped off a bridge would you too?

The fact that you are using other domainers as an excuse for registering things a toddler would know he shouldn’t is a good example of why domainers get a bad rep.

There is insinuation we should feel bad for you because they are coming after a little fish. It’s childish dude.

Consult an experienced attorney in this field for better knowledge and stop registering things you shouldn’t.

Mike Mann probably had an attorney on call for his high risk names.

 

[WhoaDomain.com]

Ok so update. Spoke to the lawyer.
Got it settled. Handing these domains over so I guess I can say the Domains now.

VRVERIZON.COM
VERIZONVR.COM
VZ5G.COM


so some info I got from the phone call.

1. Verizon does not buy any Verizon domains. That's their policy.
2. The other domains I mentioned that have been registered since 2008. I asked him about those.

His answer " I've just started working here 7 months ago. And I handle all new regs First as they pop up. So any old regs before when I started I'll have to go over. "

Wow!

So that means if one lawyer was handling Mike Mann's domain back in 2008 and he left the office and retired then Mike Mann's domain goes into limbo. This is why these domains basically gets forgotten.

Really is a lottery like someone mentioned on here.

You live and learn.

Take away?

Verizon does not buy domains with their TM in it. Nor buy any other domains not having their TM in it.

He did say to send over all my 5G domains and he'll send it to the right people in Verizon.

He wouldn't give me any money for the reg fees.

And I asked him if I can get 3 months of free premium channels. And he said he doesn't even get free anything. Lol

Adventures in Domaining!

I make the dumb mistakes. So you don't have to!

Thanks NP!

 

[Tia Wood]

Because I registered their TM in .com domains.

........... ...........

"Give up domains?"

I don't know. How much money do you want to waste? Seems like the answer is pretty obvious.

Stop doing that and move on to better domains.

And tagging Mr. Berryhill...he'll probably just laugh in your face. Or behind the computer.

 

[dordomai]

i think that TM holder sued a few cybersquatters for millions and won of course. what was the reason for registering? others doing the same?

do you want a legal battle with a large corporation? Even if you win you will lose a lot of money.

i do not know why you are doing this. you have a history of registering worthless TM domains and trying to justify keeping them. Why? Do you hope one day they will make you a huge offer instead of an UDRP?

if you do not learn from this you will be rewarded sooner or later but not the way you had hoped.

cybersquatting is not a legal activity and this does not look like an innocent mistake.

 

[WhoaDomain.com]

As far why registering such domains? Chalk it up to no sleep and drunk registering . Wasn't really thinking.

But of course stupidity is no excuse in court.

Really is annoying though that all those other domains get to exist and I have to get such emails.

There are domains like

V Support.com
V Phone.com
In V.com
The V.com
Phone V.com
V Virtual.com


My responses to them I feel is me already like stirring up a hornet's nest. I'll give him a call later to discuss handing these over.

Mine was V VR.com and VR V.com

And since VR has multi use as virtual reality and vacation rentals?

Figured (sleepily and drunk) V Vacation Rentals?

Aaahhh such crap.

Thanks everyone for the input. We all do dumb things. Let he or she who never has cast the first stone.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Mike Mann isn't stupid. He'd know the domain is an issue. But since he has one of the issue domains on sale prominently on his site and he has huge nuts. He'd probably take it.

Thanks again.

Maybe I misunderstand the coded talk in the thread, but I don't see one on these domains for sale on his main page of listings. Be sure you are not maligning someone with incorrect or out of date information. Maybe I misunderstand, but please do check that what you say is for sure true. In fact, always best to leave those not directly involved out of your discussions, if it is good to discuss this legal issue at all online. I think some on this thread have offered you good advice that you should follow. People may seem harsh, but they just want you to find the easiest way out, and for others not to fall into this stressful situation.

 

[eurorealtor]

@Avatar629 didn't we discuss a Realtor TM related domains with you like a year or two ago? Have you learn anything?

 

[BaileyUK]

?
This lawyer did mention they would come to some amicable solution with me if I cooperate. How would that even happen if you already surrender the domain?
.

it's called 'Lulling' you into making a 'unreasonable' demand

an 'amicable solution' in lawyer talk, usually means you 'Not being out of pocket' cost of registration and transfer only. ie, and we (lawyers) 'amicably' agreed not to Sue you

 

[dordomai]

I

What if I sold it instead to one other domain holders like Mike Mann who owns another V domain?

lol. do you want to turn a small loss into a huge one?

looking at some of your domains you have even more of this type of domain with even more powerful companies and very well known marks. Then you have some other domains with well known marks in them.

Not sure how many in total but just in a small sample you have a few.

everyone can see that you are cybersquatting. How do you want to defend yourself?

if you get away with this one, please do yourself and your business a favour and stay away from these domains, this is not a good strategy neither is it financially rewarding.

One guy here tried this and bragged about his successes, then he had to steal money from other members and ran away.

 

[BaileyUK]

well that's brave of you to give them a direct call. Remember after the introduction, Just Listen / don't talk

 

[dordomai]

Sitting reading all this. I wonder . Has anyone ever registered TM domains for the purpose to offer it to the TM holders for free just get your foot in the door so you can pitch them your other domains that aren't TM issue domains?

you are creative and try to make a buck whenever you can, regardless of the situation you are in, the right attitude for domaining but I would try to keep your business legal then you do not have to worry about negative consequences and you have a better chance of surviving over the long term.