Domain Empire

question The word 'The' added to an existing business name and trademarked. What to do?

NameSilo
Watch
I'm asking this on behalf of a friend of mine (really, this isn't for me. Just trying to help a friend figure out what to do). So my friend has been operating on a two word .com for around 15 years. It's a very niche specific brandable name that's related to aviation. He's been releasing apps and making money from them and also posting aviation related content on the site. He didn't issue a trademark for the term though. Let's say that he uses: AirZone dot com (just an example) and that he's been operating under the name 'Air Zone'. He found out today that a few months ago someone registered a trademark for the mark 'The Air Zone' and has an operating site on the .com and a corresponding facebook page.

A google search for "air zone" brings up my friend's site first. He also has the matching facebook page and twitter handle for 'AirZone'. What can he do at this point? Is it possible to turn to USPTO and get the other guy's trademark cancelled since my friend has been commercially operating using the version without the word 'The' for so long and this is such a specific niche? (to my understanding it may be possible if he could prove that the trademark registrant knew about his business name and deliberately chose that name despite of that).

Can being on the .com domain, and being the top result in search engines serve as proof that the other guy must have known and just ignored it? Also, can the trademark owner go after my friend?

@jberryhill I hope you can find a minute to chime in if possible.

Thanks.
 
Last edited:
1
•••
The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
Your friend already has unregistered trademark. He elected not to register it. Somebody else elected to register somewhat similar trademark. The other party may or may not be successful, but, generally speaking, what the issue is about? It is just a common sense question.

An interesting part of the puzzle, indeed, is - would it be possible for an owner of unregistered TM to somehow prevent the official registration of similar TM by another party? Hope @jberryhill will enlighten us...
 
2
•••
@tonyk2000 Thanks. The mark for "The Air Zone" (again, Air Zone is just an example replacing the actual name) is already Live.
 
Last edited:
1
•••
He's been releasing apps and making money from them...

...

@jberryhill I hope you can find a minute to chime in if you find time.

Sure. This one is simple. Your friend should contact a lawyer to obtain legal advice. Lawyers make money by advising people who are in business to make money. If you are charged with a crime, you can get a free lawyer. Trademark questions, not so much, but you can generally get a quick cost-free consultation if what you have is a simple issue. The trick is having a simple issue, and not having a question that takes ten seconds to ask, but an hour to answer including research - but an attorney can tell you that after considering the question and the real facts.

I'm happy to use questions on this forum as jumping off points for hopefully posting information about trademark law and domain disputes that may be of general interest by domainers.

I'm much less happy to be asked to do free work for something other than a charity which I have chosen to support. I have plenty of chores to do around my house. Nobody ever shows up and asks me what I need done?

An internet forum is a great place to discuss law in general, or even particular cases.

On the other hand, an internet forum is an extremely poor choice to discuss one's legal issues, as opposed to getting in contact with an attorney for a confidential consultation which, unlike an internet forum website, the other side is not going to be eavesdropping on your conversation with that attorney.

Confidentiality is one of the things to which a person seeking legal advice from an attorney is entitled. Another thing to which such a person is entitled is that such communications with an attorney are not only confidential, but they are privileged from disclosure to the other side.

An internet forum is the polar opposite of what you obtain in an actual consultation with an attorney.

Two of the things I am obligated by law to provide to clients - confidentiality and protection of privilege - are immediately tossed out the window if I purport to advise a client on a public forum. It would be unethical and irresponsible.

Not only would it be malpractice for an attorney to provide your friend with legal advice in a public setting, but it would also be malpractice for an attorney to provide legal advice to your friend in some sort of ventriloquist act.

I get some weird inquiries by email, and I should start a thread on these odd recurring types. Briefly, there is the "I have a friend" call or email where someone such as yourself wants to be the go-between for some odd reason. I don't know if they think they are going to mark up my services or what, but I'm always mystified by the ones who think they are going to get a lawyer to tell them what to tell their "friend". Do people do this with doctors too?

Like, is there anyone here who, when their friend starts coughing up blood, goes to the doctor and says, "My friend is coughing up blood, what should he do?" Because I'm pretty sure the doctor is going to say, "Your friend needs to see a doctor."

Another common one is the one that comes from some gmail address like domainguy56, starts with "Hi John", includes a question of the form "I have a domain name sort of like xxxxx", and they don't identify themselves other than "Dave" or whatever. I don't know what they expect. In order to do something for you and to provide you with all of the protections and advantages that legal advice provides, I have to know who you are. Plus, I get a strong stalker vibe from people who address me by my first name "John" and do not identify themselves. Basic human courtesy would suggest that you do not act familiar with people whom you do not know, particularly if you are not going to identify yourself in at least as much detail.

But, on top of the weird stalker thing, if you want legal advice from a lawyer, then it is just like going to a doctor for medical advice:

You don't go to the doctor to talk about your friend's symptoms.

You don't go to the doctor and say, "How much do you charge for an appendectomy?" The doctor is going to want to examine you first and figure out whether you NEED an appendectomy, and not simply take your word for it.

You don't go to the doctor and say, "Part of my body hurts. Let's say it is a body part like my nose, but it's not really my nose. What would you do for the pain?" No. You tell the doctor where it hurts and you answer the doctor's other questions, since the doctor is trying to figure out, based on years of education and expertise, what is wrong with you and what you might need. Sometimes, your real problem isn't what you think it is. One thing I can't emphasize enough is that trademark disputes are HIGHLY fact-intensive. Not all trademarks are created equal in terms of strength or scope, so the ACTUAL FACTS matter when the question is one that will determine whether or not someone makes money or gets into a world of expensive trouble.

This question is the double-whammy... The request "for a friend" on facts that are "sort of like the actual facts but not really."

So, to be clear, this is what I would suggest to your friend:

1. Don't authorize your friends to post your legal problems on public internet forums. The people you are concerned about can read them too.

2. Don't seek legal advice on public forums.

3. Contact an attorney yourself. Ask if you could have a brief consultation if your problem is simple. Your problem may not be simple, but any attorney should be able to tell you how much an answer might cost. If you are in business to make money, then, yeah, sometimes you have to spend some of that money on materials, advertising, wages, and, yes, legal services.

I hope your friend finds that advice useful.
 
5
•••
The mark for "The Air Zone" (again, Air Zone is just an example replacing the actual name) is already Live.

"LIVE" doesn't tell you anything meaningful.

Is it a "LIVE" pending application or a "LIVE" issued registration? If it is a pending application, is it a 1(a) or a 1(b)? Has the application been examined? Exactly where in the process is it? If it is a 1(a), is it for relevant goods and services, and what is the claimed date of first use? If it is an issued registration, is it on the Principal Register or the Supplemental Register?

Do the parties sell the same or similar stuff to the same or similar groups of consumers? How long has each been around doing that (which may differ from the USPTO data)?

These questions would be a starting point for getting enough facts to get anywhere near a useful answer for your friend.
 
Last edited:
2
•••
@jberryhill Thanks and I apologize for tagging you. I didn't think it was such a complex matter that required so much more information and was just trying to help my friend get a basic idea if he has a potential case or not so he could decide if he should be proactive about it or not. You're an authority and the most qualified person at NamePros to even assess these type of situations and that's why I was hoping to get your input. Again, thanks for your time and response and I'll convey the message to my friend.
 
0
•••
I didn't think it was such a complex matter

No worries.

Like I said, many of the questions here, including this one, provide an opportunity to explain legal stuff.

The facts MIGHT lead to a really simple analysis and answer, or a not-so-really simple one. Questions like this provide an opportunity to explain the kinds of things I'd want to know if I were to look into this one.

A theme in a lot of my posts is directed to the "I saw something tagged 'LIVE' in the USPTO database..." form of question, to point out that there's a wealth of data in those records, each one of which is not as meaningful as the entirety of the data in context.

Lots of things can be "LIVE" in the USPTO database. They may be very different things.
 
1
•••
  • The sidebar remains visible by scrolling at a speed relative to the page’s height.
Back