The USA Political Thread

[lennco]

Here you can spout your USA political views.

Rules:
1. Keep it clean
2. No fighting
3. Respect the views of others.
4. US Political views, No Religious views
5. Have fun

:wave:

 

[mr-x]

Hey there's one of those tweets! So this is what I should be relying on instead of BBC or CNN right?

Who are you going to believe... The BBC or your lying eyes.

Those people were method actors! - Joe ( probably )

Tweet from a Journalist at Veritas.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1324786393827233792

 

[jberryhill]

You do realize that hospitals were given incentives for deaths or treatments related to Covid. Of course they’re going to game the system.

Yes, all of the health care workers, many of whom have died and many of whom have spent time in isolation from their own families, in order to deal with a serious health crises, have all been in on a massive conspiracy to game the system for profit.

Because, sure, all the med school graduates doing their residencies for low pay and long hours have nothing better to do than to use all of their newly-acquired credentials obtained at great cost and sacrifice, to lie their asses off so that someone else can get rich.

But, Keith, what on earth does your belief in this particular conspiracy theory - that was also promoted by Trump - have to do with the point about choosing mail-in voting over in-person voting?

You can believe whatever you want about Covid. I don't care. Knock yourself out.

However, I can't for the life of me see why you don't think that beliefs about Covid were relevant to how people chose to cast their vote.

Obviously, a lot of the stupid Democrats were all cowering in their houses and afraid to go outside because they believed all that nonsense about Covid - and so a lot of them voted by mail.

On the other hand, the brave, patriotic and truth-discerning Republicans were not at all phased by the Democrat virus hoax and scaremongering - and so a lot of them voted in person.

And you really can't figure that out?

 

[Keith]

You realize you are proving my point, right?

As with Mr. X above, you don't seem to want to focus on the point here. I'm not making some point about who is "right" or "wrong" about covid.

The fact of the matter is that people who are going to toss out phrases like "bullshit lockdown" are going to be less concerned about going out to vote than people who don't consider it "bullshit". That is reflective of a difference between Democratic voters and Republican voters which is going to be reflected in a difference in what method they chose to actually cast their votes.

That’s false.

I can think the lockdown is BS but still follow rules and take the easy road - mail in my vote.

Lots of assumptions being made. This guy said do as I say so his followers did just that. This one is afraid of corona more so they voted in a certain manner.

If I request a mail in ballot can anyone on the planet accurately predict how I’ll vote? That’s been the suggestion presented here by several people. All the info in the world doesn’t give you access to the pen that I put in the paper.

 

[mr-x]

cc: @Joe Nichols

Another unverified tweet

https://twitter.com/x/status/1324789306960084992

I'll let you know what happens.

 

[Joe N]

That’s false.

I can think the lockdown is BS but still follow rules and take the easy road - mail in my vote.

Lots of assumptions being made. This guy said do as I say so his followers did just that. This one is afraid of corona more so they voted in a certain manner.

If I request a mail in ballot can anyone on the planet accurately predict how I’ll vote? That’s been the suggestion presented here by several people. All the info in the world doesn’t give you access to the pen that I put in the paper.

So you mailed in your vote?

 

[jberryhill]

I can think the lockdown is BS but still follow rules and take the easy road - mail in my vote.

Yes Keith. I don't know what your background is, so maybe I'm making assumptions about what your experience might be with math.

Saying that something is "more likely" or "less likely" to occur does not mean that something is uniformly the same.

You know what? I can have a deck of cards with 51 two of spades and one ace of spades in it. Most of the time, if you take a card from that deck, you are going to get a two of spades. Can you get the ace? Sure. But not as often.

Absolutely, a lot of people used mail-in voting and voted for Trump. In fact, in some of his targeted campaign mailers, he encouraged people to use mail-in voting.

Statistics don't mean anything if we are going to talk about "what Keith did".

Statistics do mean something if we are going to talk about "what one million voters did".

The observed facts are that, on a pretty uniform level, in-person voting numbers were better for Trump than Biden, even in districts where Trump won BOTH in-person and mail-in voting.

I did not say "all Trump voters believed X and voted by Y" nor did I say "all Biden voters believed X and voted by Y".

But the observed fact that mail-in voting skewed to Biden and in-person voting skewed toward Trump is OBVIOUSLY consistent with attitudes that you have expressed here about the "bullshit lockdown" and "hospitals inflating covid numbers". People who are more likely to believe the virus is overblown were more likely to vote in person. People who are more likely to believe otherwise were more likely to vote by mail.

OF COURSE there were in-person votes for Biden, and there were mail-in votes for Trump. But I'm not sure we are going to have a productive discussion if the response to that is "but I mailed in my vote for Trump."

 

[Keith]

So you mailed in your vote?

No.

Mail in is supposed to be a last result. Joe pushed it hard as if people might die if they cast in person. Silly.

That’s why I mentioned the Covid hoax or scare tactics being pushed by the dems. They did not want people to get up and go to polling stations as usual.

 

[Joe N]

No.

Mail in is supposed to be a last result. Joe pushed it hard as if people might die if they cast in person. Silly.

That’s why I mentioned the Covid hoax or scare tactics being pushed by the dems. They did not want people to get up and go to polling stations as usual.

And so they didn't! They mailed in their votes.

 

[Keith]

Yes Keith. I don't know what your background is, so maybe I'm making assumptions about what your experience might be with math.

Saying that something is "more likely" or "less likely" to occur does not mean that something is uniformly the same.

You know what? I can have a deck of cards with 51 two of spades and one ace of spades in it. Most of the time, if you take a card from that deck, you are going to get a two of spades. Can you get the ace? Sure. But not as often.

Absolutely, a lot of people used mail-in voting and voted for Trump. In fact, in some of his targeted campaign mailers, he encouraged people to use mail-in voting.

Statistics don't mean anything if we are going to talk about "what Keith did".

Statistics do mean something if we are going to talk about "what one million voters did".

The observed facts are that, on a pretty uniform level, in-person voting numbers were better for Trump than Biden, even in districts where Trump won BOTH in-person and mail-in voting.

I did not say "all Trump voters believed X and voted by Y" nor did I say "all Biden voters believed X and voted by Y".

But the observed fact that mail-in voting skewed to Biden and in-person voting skewed toward Trump is OBVIOUSLY consistent with attitudes that you have expressed here about the "bullshit lockdown" and "hospitals inflating covid numbers". People who are more likely to believe the virus is overblown were more likely to vote in person. People who are more likely to believe otherwise were more likely to vote by mail.

OF COURSE there were in-person votes for Biden, and there were mail-in votes for Trump. But I'm not sure we are going to have a productive discussion if the response to that is "but I mailed in my vote for Trump."

The bigger issue is that our system allows for multiple ways to vote. On top of that, you have candidates pushing for their followers to use one way over the other. Why? If you’re the better candidate you’ll win regardless of how ballots are cast.

My hope is that blockchain will transform our system within the next 8 years. It’s honestly the only way for real transparency and tracking.

 

[Keith]

https://www.irinsider.org/science-technology-1/2020/11/1/the-usps-and-blockchain-mail-in-voting

 

[mr-x]

The bigger issue is that our system allows for multiple ways to vote. On top of that, you have candidates pushing for their followers to use one way over the other. Why? If you’re the better candidate you’ll win regardless of how ballots are cast.

My hope is that blockchain will transform our system within the next 8 years. It’s honestly the only way for real transparency and tracking.

2 years would be my goal. Live test on next federal election.

 

[mr-x]

And suddenly control of the Senate is in play.

 

[Joe N]

The bigger issue is that our system allows for multiple ways to vote. On top of that, you have candidates pushing for their followers to use one way over the other. Why? If you’re the better candidate you’ll win regardless of how ballots are cast.

My hope is that blockchain will transform our system within the next 8 years. It’s honestly the only way for real transparency and tracking.

Wait... So you're saying people should only be allowed to vote in person?

 

[Joe N]

And suddenly control of the Senate is in play.

Wow, that would be a nice prize for the Democrats.

 

[GILSAN]

It's good to ingest media on both sides of a position to keep from only feeding our already existing biases. Do you do that too?

I make a supreme effort and force myself to watch CNN, BBC, Al Jazeera, France 24 to make sure I hear all the BS they are spewing out. I don't have Fox on my network provider.

 

[jberryhill]

Mail in is supposed to be a last result. Joe pushed it hard as if people might die if they cast in person. Silly.

That’s why I mentioned the Covid hoax or scare tactics being pushed by the dems. They did not want people to get up and go to polling stations as usual.

Keith, I don't know you personally, and it is kind of hard to get a good "feel" about people on internet forums.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but our conversation started when I responded to your comment about how you could not believe or understand why mail-in vote would favor Biden, and in-person voting would favor Trump.

I said that the voting behavior is probably a consequence of the candidates' positions on the general reality of the viral pandemic, and how agreement with those positions might differentiate the relative voting modality of their respective voters.

You poo-pooed that suggestion, saying it was "absurd" that the candidates' rhetoric, and their supporters' beliefs, would be reflected in how they chose to vote.

Now, you are saying "That’s why I mentioned the Covid hoax or scare tactics being pushed by the dems. They did not want people to get up and go to polling stations as usual".

Keith, are you okay?

Yes, in general, Democrats promoted mail-in voting as a safer alternative to going to polling stations while Republicans tended to deem that advice to be "Covid hoax or scare tactics".

I'm not sure whether you have conceded the argument, or whether you even realize you've conceded the argument, so to be clear...

Do you understand why the mail-in vote might skew toward Biden, while the in-person vote might skew toward Trump, based on underlying beliefs about covid among those voting populations?

 

[Joe N]

I make a supreme effort and force myself to watch CNN, BBC, Al Jazeera, France 24 to make sure I hear all the BS they are spewing out. I don't have Fox on my network provider.

That's good! How are you able to tell that everything they say is BS?

 

[Joe N]

Keith, I don't know you personally, and it is kind of hard to get a good "feel" about people on internet forums.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but our conversation started when I responded to your comment about how you could not believe or understand why mail-in vote would favor Biden, and in-person voting would favor Trump.

I said that the voting behavior is probably a consequence of the candidates' positions on the general reality of the viral pandemic, and how agreement with those positions might differentiate the relative voting modality of their respective voters.

You poo-pooed that suggestion, saying it was "absurd" that the candidates' rhetoric, and their supporters' beliefs, would be reflected in how they chose to vote.

Now, you are saying "That’s why I mentioned the Covid hoax or scare tactics being pushed by the dems. They did not want people to get up and go to polling stations as usual".

Keith, are you okay?

Yes, in general, Democrats promoted mail-in voting as a safer alternative to going to polling stations while Republicans tended to deem that advice to be "Covid hoax or scare tactics".

I'm not sure whether you have conceded the argument, or whether you even realize you've conceded the argument, so to be clear...

Do you understand why the mail-in vote might skew toward Biden, while the in-person vote might skew toward Trump, based on underlying beliefs about covid among those voting populations?

I fear you may have reached that point in the discussion where one person covers their ears and says "la la la la".

 

[Keith]

What does that have to do with what large numbers of their voters believe?

If a candidate were to say, "I intend to have people with red hair shot on sight" then it's pretty freaking obvious that we can expect fewer people with red hair to vote for that candidate.

The candidate who says "I intend to have people with red hair shot on sight" doesn't have to "only speak to" people with blond, brown and black hair. That candidate can certainly say that to EVERYONE. But it is going to cause a probable shift in whether that candidate gets many votes from people with red hair.

It's pretty obvious that on the question of "Are you concerned about whether the risk of the viral pandemic might make it safer to vote by mail than in person?" you would get different percentages from Trump supporters and Biden supporters on whether they were concerned about the viral pandemic.

It has nothing to do with who they "speak to". Yes, Donald Trump told everyone that concern about the virus was overblown, and suggested it was a hoax. Surely you have heard him claiming that right after the election, everyone would open everything up and concern would vanish, since it was primarily being used as a political issue. And sure he said those things "to the country, not to any specific group."

Likewise, Biden has said things "to the country, not to any specific group" that the viral pandemic is real, and that the government needs to work constructively with epidemiologists on controlling the viral pandemic.

So, golly, people who believe the virus is a hoax are not going to worry about voting at polling stations, and people who believe the virus is real are going to exercise more caution and take advantage of mail-in voting.

That has nothing to do with whom either candidate "only speaks to". It has everything to do with the behavior of people who listen and believe one or the other candidate.

And that behavior is certainly going to be noticeable in which candidate's supports aren't worried about the virus and skew toward polling stations, and which candidate's supporters are worried and skew toward mail-in voting.

@jberryhill this is why we’re talking Covid and how it effects mail in.

One guy says be afraid and vote by mail. The other says no worries, cast your ballot in a more secure, traditional fashion.

The virus scare tactics play an important role here and the security of mail in ballots vs in person also play a key role.

 

[Samer]

Only NYTimes article i agree with;

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/05/upshot/arizona-election-call.html