The USA Political Thread

[lennco]

Here you can spout your USA political views.

Rules:
1. Keep it clean
2. No fighting
3. Respect the views of others.
4. US Political views, No Religious views
5. Have fun

:wave:

 

[GILSAN]

 

[GILSAN]

 

[Kate]

Occupation... I don't know what country your from but I'm going to guess if a neighbor stated they wanted to exterminate your race form the earth, then attacked you and lost... you might not want to give them YOUR land back.

Just an excuse to confiscate land. Settler are not fighting terrorists, they are coming after civilians who've done nothing wrong. They plain steal from them.

You pretend like Israel just walked into a peaceful settlement with tractors and tanks for sh*ts and giggles..

They steal land, evict Arabs from their homes and destroy or confiscate property. Even the UN resolution says that. Perhaps you've been under the impression that the occupation is something benign, as if settlers were building homes on some unoccupied land,... but that's not how it works. People are hurt and deported in the process.
Israelis have security problems, but they have a country and a territory. They are not being deported from their homes right now. It's Palestinians who are being deported and have their rights violated.

You're ignorant of the facts, spouting liberal talking points written by Marxist and anti-Semites.

The anti-Semite label is a very poor attempt to dismiss the critics. Then the whole world is anti-Semite and the UN to begin with.
My advice is to have a look at the UN resolutions (why exactly other countries are blaming Israel), then do some research to understand what exactly is going on in the West Bank.

The ignorant are those who dismiss the UN resolutions even though they never read them and have strictly no idea of the points made.

If Arab-Palestine disarmed, recognized Israel's right to exist, their would be a two state solution in months.

Not going to happen.
The persistent colonization has been eating at Palestinian territory. The West bank is now a myriad of enclaves, moving from one enclave to another is difficult and can take hours, checkpoints have to be crossed. It's a nightmare for people who live there. Freedom of circulation doesn't exist in the West Bank.

http://www.btselem.org/maps

Israel has pursued a policy of fait accompli, seizing land and fragmenting Palestinian territory. You can't build a State out of a myriad of enclaves, and that's the whole point.
Israel doesn't want to live side by side with a viable Palestinian State, or they would do it differently. They have built huge walls, so they could have cut off the West bank neatly. Instead they have allowed settlements and built walled enclaves.

No, they do not. This is a lie. Arab Palestine doesn't recognize Israel as a state or a people.

Palestine has recognized the right for Israel to exist and there is no turning back, no matter what Hamas says and does. The issue of recognizing Israel as a Jewish State is a subtlety, but that has important implications. In fact the article you quoted explains some of the issues at hand.

 

[mr-x]

Just an excuse to confiscate land. Settler are not fighting terrorists, they are coming after civilians who've done nothing wrong. They plain steal from them.

I'm not going to pretend these two states are not at war. I'm also not going to pretend "civilians" don't strap on bombs, run people over with cars, stab people, etc.

The last time Israel kicked 8,000 Jews from their land and gave it to Arab-Palestine, they were rewarded with violence. A lot of bad actions in response to other bad actions.

I'm confidant if Arab-Palestine wanted peace and stopped attacking Israel, Israel would negotiate a peace.. even compromising on land.

They steal land, evict Arabs from their homes and destroy or confiscate property. Even the UN resolution says that. Perhaps you've been under the impression that the occupation is something benign, as if settlers were building homes on some unoccupied land,... but that's not how it works. People are hurt and deported in the process

Israelis have security problems, but they have a country and a territory. They are not being deported from their homes right now. It's Palestinians who are being deported and have their rights violated.

Most Arab-Palestine land was lost in open conflict with Israel.

You can argue that the policy of destroying the family home of terrorist is unjust, which it is. It's also unjust for the Palestine Authority to reward families of terrorist with life-long payments and privileges.

If you strap a bomb on and attack civilians in Israel, your family will pay a price, maybe loosing you land for murdering civilians isn't worth the life-time payments and political martyrdom.

The anti-Semite label is a very poor attempt to dismiss the critics. Then the whole world is anti-Semite and the UN to begin with.

It's an accurate label. you're wiliness to dismiss or minimize facts when they don't support your position is a bad habit.

My advice is to have a look at the UN resolutions (why exactly other countries are blaming Israel), then do some research to understand what exactly is going on in the West Bank.

The ignorant are those who dismiss the UN resolutions even though they never read them and have strictly no idea of the points made.

I put zero faith in the UN and the greedy, blood hungry people who run it. Taking UN resolutions as fact is like taking a prosecutor's statement as fact.

UN resolutions written by combatant countries, protected by China who has taken Tibet, is threating Taiwan and Russia, currently engaged in a war with Ukraine.

The persistent colonization has been eating at Palestinian territory.

I hope Israel takes all of Palestine until Arab-Palestine is nothing but a postage stamp.

Colonization would end tomorrow if Hamas disarmed. Many Arab Muslims live well in Israel. How many Jews live in Arab-Palestine?

Palestine has recognized the right for Israel to exist and there is no turning back, no matter what Hamas says and does. The issue of recognizing Israel as a Jewish State is a subtlety, but that has important implications. In fact the article you quoted explains some of the issues at hand.

You're ignoring present day facts to support a failed argument.

Yasser Arafat is dead, his government is gone. The Palestine authority is comprised of three different terrorist groups. The official position is the destruction of Israel.

 

[mr-x]

The Arab-Palestine and Jewish Israel conflict is long with thousands of bad actions by both parties.

1) Israel is a liberal representative democracy.

• Atheist, Christians, Jews, Muslims live together. Human rights are respected.
• Has compromised in the past, turning over land for peace
• Endorsed a two state solution.
• When attacked, uses the opportunity to keep land.

2) Arab-Palestine is run by a coalition of terrorist groups, supported by other theocratic terrorist nations.

• Every time a solution is brokered, Arab-Palestine attacks Israel
• PA pays the families of terrorist life-time payments for killing Israeli civilians.
• Their public schools teach Jews are evil and should be exterminated.
• Their official Government policy is the destruction of Israel

Liberals and progressives support Arab-Palestine.

Cognitive dissonance

I wonder if Liberals would call Arab-Palestine occupiers if they had won and kept Israeli land.

 

[iowadawg]

 

[iowadawg]

Kate, one day soon, probably:

 

[mr-x]

Kate, one day soon, probably:

the UN resolution against slavery doesn't allow this. It doesn't happen. La La La La La

 

[Kate]

I put zero faith in the UN and the greedy, blood hungry people who run it. Taking UN resolutions as fact is like taking a prosecutor's statement as fact.

UN resolutions written by combatant countries, protected by China who has taken Tibet, is threating Taiwan and Russia, currently engaged in a war with Ukraine.

I see, discarding the evidence when it gets too hot and inconvenient.
So these resolutions are equally worthless ?

68/262. Territorial integrity of Ukraine
Question of Tibet - 2079
Question of Tibet - 1723

I am sure Trump didn't read the resolutions and doesn't care, as he doesn't read intel briefings too, because he knows it all. He's an expert in foreign affairs.
I forgot we live in a post-truth world now.

Unfortunately the outcome is predictable: the next administration will resume business as usual and continue to support Israel no matter how wrong. Of course the injustice will embolden radicals and terrorists (I don't support them but just saying), then Trump will depict the Arabs as terrorists and he will claim that "the whole world hates us", and this is so unfair and he can't fathom why etc. Cause you know, the Americans are white and Christian, so they are the good guys.
But not a word about occupation crimes, ever.
I don't have a problem with the US being friend with Israel (very one-sided friendship BTW). The problem is their unbalanced attitude and disregard for the other party that doesn't contribute to a peaceful settlement.
It is a very sad state of affairs.

Colonization would end tomorrow if Hamas disarmed.

Colonization never stopped, even during Arafat's tenure. It is something that contributed to undermine the authority of the Palestinian authority: while negotiations are going on, Israeli settlers continue to grab land and the Israeli government allows the fait accompli. Arabs end up thinking they are suckers being taken advantage of. Terrorists determine that the Palestinian authority betrays them and ignore attempts at peace.

1) Israel is a liberal representative democracy. Atheist, Christians, Jews, Muslims live together. Human rights are respected.

The US is a democracy, but it violates human rights and also engages in illegal, armed interventions. it violates its own Constitution and detains people indefinitely without trial.
Israel: exactly the same.
Turkey is a democracy too.
India is a democracy too.
Plenty of countries are democracies at least on paper.
Doesn't mean human rights are strongly enforced.
The word 'democracy' is abused as often as 'premium' in the domain industry.

 

[mr-x]

The US is a democracy, but it violates human rights and also engages in illegal, armed interventions. it violates its own Constitution and detains people indefinitely without trial.
Israel: exactly the same.
Turkey is a democracy too.
India is a democracy too.
Plenty of countries are democracies at least on paper.
Doesn't mean human rights are strongly enforced.
The word 'democracy' is abused as often as 'premium' in the domain industry.

You know who's not a democracy? The PA. It's a terrorist organization that attacks it's neighbor state to kill as many civilians as possible.

If your neighbor killed your child, you'd be happy to let them keep living next to you.. threating your other children. Right?

Your belief all UN resolutions are equally valid and accurate is dubious at best.

 

[mr-x]

Plenty of countries are democracies at least on paper.
Doesn't mean human rights are strongly enforced.
The word 'democracy' is abused as often as 'premium' in the domain industry.

I like how you skip over the fact that Israel is the only country in the ME besides Jordan that allows free speech, freedom of religion.

How many countries in the ME and Africa practice slavery? How many of those are democracies?

 

[iowadawg]

Repeat after me....
THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS NOT A DEMOCRACY.
THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS A REPUBLIC.
UNDERSTAND THIS AND UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE!

 

[Kate]

Claiming that the PA is a terrorist organization to justify occupation is a very poor excuse.
Settlers are not defending against attacks on their country, they are not even fighting the PA or Hamas specifically. They are fighting innocent civilians.

I like how you skip over the fact that Israel is the only country in the ME besides Jordan that allows free speech, freedom of religion.

How many countries in the ME and Africa practice slavery? How many of those are democracies?

Not skipping. The fact that Israel has a democratic regime is not meant as a free pass. Besides, human rights may be respected in Israel but not in the occupied territories and that's the whole point.
I would love to see those autocratic regimes in the ME replaced with democratic governments. For example Saudi Arabia, an abhorrent regime. Surely the US administration feels the same ?

 

[mr-x]

Claiming that the PA is a terrorist organization to justify occupation is a very poor excuse.
Settlers are not defending against attacks on their country, they are not even fighting the PA or Hamas specifically. They are fighting innocent civilians.


Not skipping. The fact that Israel has a democratic regime is not meant as a free pass. Besides, human rights may be respected in Israel but not in the occupied territories and that's the whole point.
I would love to see those autocratic regimes in the ME replaced with democratic governments. For example Saudi Arabia, an abhorrent regime. Surely the US administration feels the same ?

Denying the PA is a terrorist organization and claiming they respect human rights of civilians living in PA is complete denial or ignorance.

 

[mr-x]

Settlers are not defending against attacks on their country, they are not even fighting the PA or Hamas specifically. They are fighting innocent civilians.

You mean, like their two states are at war? I'm not trying to justify bad acts on either side.

I'm arguing if PA disarmed and agreed in principal to a two state solution, Israel would negotiate, even returning land for peace.. like they have done in the past.

You seem to be saying PA terrorism is justified based on claims made by terrorist.

If the PA wanted a country and political self-determination, they could have it. What they want is the destruction of Israel. I have no problem with Israel taking land from terrorist.

 

[Kate]

Denying the PA is not a terrorist organization and claiming they respect human rights of civilians living in PA is complete denial or ignorance.

Haven't said that either. And I don't think we should be friendly with Hamas or
complacent with terrorists. Instead we should deal with moderates like Erekat. At least do not give ammo to your enemies.

I have no problem with Israel taking land from terrorist.

You're saying that the civilians evicted by settlers are terrorists ? Or maybe the aim is to turn them into insurgents ?

 

[AGermanGuy]

See, this agerman guy does not know the history of his own country, Germany.
He should check it out.
WWII for sure....
All those muslims fighting for their man, Adolf.
For the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was a NAZI, loved them, loved Adolf (who he met a few times).
And from that time?
Too many muslims in the Middle East still revere the Nazis.

And? Thats nearly 80 years ago. Doesnt matter what happened back then. Henry Ford helped Nazi Germany btw, are all americans Nazis now? No. They are not. Because:
1. You cannot generalize just because of the actions of a few.
2. This shit happened a long time ago. All these people died already.

This is like saying Americans are nazis because they voted for a KKK-endorsed president.
The nazis also got a bit of help from American citizens, politicians and corporations.

Kate, I really really appreciate that you are helping me here fighting them and their spread of hate against refugees and muslims, but I think we have to give up. It is pointless. They will never change. They are sadly full of hatred for some reason.

 

[mr-x]

Haven't said that either. And I don't think we should be friendly with Hamas or
complacent with terrorists. Instead we should deal with moderates like Erekat. At least do not give ammo to your enemies.

You're saying that the civilians evicted by settlers are terrorists ? Or maybe the aim is to turn them into insurgents ?

I'm saying the PA is a terrorist authority. You seem fine with or just ignore PA civilians are also attacking Jews. What's the name of the world you live in?

If the PA was destroyed by Israel tomorrow, the Arab population would for the most part, be safe.

If Israel was destroyed by PA, every Jew, Atheist, Christian and Homosexual would be expelled, imprisoned or put to death. That is PA policy is it not?

Your supporting a terrorist Gov and pointing to a single moderate as an excuse.

 

[mr-x]

Kate, I really really appreciate that you are helping me here fighting them and their spread of hate against refugees and muslims, but I think we have to give up. It is pointless. They will never change. They are sadly full of hatred for some reason.

You so easily label people who don't agree with your world view bigots and hateful.

 

[mr-x]

Israel steps up home demolitions to punish Palestinian attackers

JERUSALEM — On Oct. 13, Ala’a Abu Jamal, a Palestinian Israeli employed by Israel’s national telephone company, rammed his company car into a Jerusalem bus stop, got out and stabbed to death a 60-year-old rabbi. Abu Jamal was shot dead at the scene.

A week earlier, Israeli military forces blew up the home of Abu Jamal’s neighbor and cousin, Ghassan, who, with another relative, had attacked a Jerusalem synagogue in November 2014, killing six Israelis.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...09392edc612_story.html?utm_term=.dc1b441cbb24


I'll ask you again, @Kate, If you neighbor killed your child, then promised to kill your other children, would you:

A) do nothing?

B) let him have your home?

C) punish him?