The USA Political Thread

[lennco]

Here you can spout your USA political views.

Rules:
1. Keep it clean
2. No fighting
3. Respect the views of others.
4. US Political views, No Religious views
5. Have fun

:wave:

 

[verbster]

It was a tough call, but the best bogus answers were . . .

1. The collecting of money in a "lot more decentral way than now."
2. "That is how it works now, things are mysteriouly designated as needed without consent."
3. "Free market would decide what is needed."
4. "Before what we have now exsitsed did people go around and say 'show me a population of about 10,000 where that works'".
5. "Or possibly promisary notes from some kind of bank."
6. "It would be different depending on the exact situation."

And my favorite: "NP$ is a currency, created without any government."

 

[Theo Goodman]

It was a tough call, but the best bogus answers were . . .

1. The collecting of money in a "lot more decentral way than now."
2. "That is how it works now, things are mysteriouly designated as needed without consent."
3. "Free market would decide what is needed."
4. "Before what we have now exsitsed did people go around and say 'show me a population of about 10,000 where that works'".
5. "Or possibly promisary notes from some kind of bank."
6. "It would be different depending on the exact situation."

And my favorite: "NP$ is a currency, created without any government."

1. Road needs to be built, company collects money for said road
2-3. Free market would decide what is needed. Please explain how this is bogus.
4.So you mean the revolutionary "fathers" were talking to each other and TJ said the Ben, "hey show me a population of 10,000 were that works",
5. Sorry that is a possiblity, why or how is that not a possiblity? If these notes are generaly accepted.
6. Yes nobody can see the future and it is possible that there are no cookie cutter solutions, or do you mean that things now are always the same and there is no varation in this.

"And my favorite: "NP$ is a currency, created without any government."
Please explain how that is not true, or do you mean that NP has a money transmitter licence?

While talking of "bogus" then please explain why and how these things are "bogus"


It was a tough call, my favorite bogus statements and words:
"your no-government fantasy seems more like a super wealthy get to do whatever they want with no controls at all type of world."

"mysteriously designated"

"You aren't looking at the big picture, which is very complex and expensive"

"And as soon as we gather enough people, we must have some way to communicate our ideas and make decisions based on what's best for the majority."

"Without that sort of democracy, you get might makes right government, where the government rules because they have the thugs and firepower to force people to do what they want. You can look at the world today and see this."


Currently:
But who is going to pay the national debt?
Who stops a gang from burning a store, trashing your house or raping your daughter?
Who stops someone from mugging you?
What urban population (of at least 10,000)was able to pay off the ammount of debt that the US currently has (scaling allowed)?
When will the prison population stop growing?
Why is it ok for the NSA to collect tons of data about me without a court order or my permission?
Why do police kill so many people each year?
Why is the goverment allowed to print unlimited ammounts of money?
Why are the shareholders of the FED secret?(exact names of compaines)
Why do we need the FED?
Why is fractional banking allowed?
What is going to happen to all the people that come back from military service that are in trauma?
Why are road conditons abmysmal in many cities?
Why do people do what the police tell them to?

 

[verbster]

Are you old enough to vote?

 

[RogueWriter]

Bottom line, the fact that the descendants of slaves make-up the largest %, per capita, of people on welfare says more about the morally bankrupt , lazy politics, of American conservatives... than anything else.

The fact that you are still willing to coddle people who are using an event that occurred over 150 years ago to not contribute to society shows the depth of your gullibility and inability to comprehend the realities of modern-day society.

But, this is not a racial issue as much as it is a Democrat/Liberal issue; certainly there are people of every ethnicity and background wiling to vote for the party that allows them to continue to not work. Asking this voting block to work 40 hour weeks 50 weeks a year for their benefits would cause demonstrations and rioting at a national level.

 

[Theo Goodman]

Verb, you didnt quote anything so we have no idea who you are talking to.

 

[verbster]

The fact that you are still willing to coddle people who are using an event that occurred over 150 years ago to not contribute to society shows the depth of your gullibility and inability to comprehend the realities of modern-day society..

I don't think he said anyone was using 150 year old event to coddle anyone. He was simply illustrating how he thinks the basis of the welfare state beginnings came about (BTW, it was Andrew Johnson, not Jackson, who took the reins after Lincoln.) Welfare got it's real applicable beginnings during the Great depression (which no one really remembers or cares about today, either). The government tried to help families with kids to keep them from starving. Of course, like many good intentions, the program got changed here and there until, like so many other programs, it has become a Frankenstein. The good news is that is does help people and families that truly need it. The bad news is that it is susceptible to fraud and recipients that shouldn't be eligible.

But, this is not a racial issue as much as it is a Democrat/Liberal issue; certainly there are people of every ethnicity and background wiling to vote for the party that allows them to continue to not work. Asking this voting block to work 40 hour weeks 50 weeks a year for their benefits would cause demonstrations and rioting at a national level.

it's a bit of a racial issue, but it may be more of a geographic issue than most consider. For instance, California has a third of the total welfare recipients. Something's wrong with that. Several states apparently have more people collecting welfare than have people working (if what I read was true), and many other states pay higher benefits for welfare than the federal minimum wage. Some, like Hawaii, pay very high amounts, so I can see the reason many don't want to find a job.

That said, it wouldn't be easy to get the "lazy" ones off the program. Your suggestion of making them work sounds simple, but would be incredibly tough to implement. We're talking jobs for millions of people, and the oversight it would take. If course, if you have no conscience, you could exercise an iron fist and stop everything, kick families out of the housing and into the streets, cut off the food stamps and all other social aid. I figure that would only kill a few million out of the 15 million the first year. I'm sure some people think that would be acceptable. . . the same would probably think those tactics would make us look strong to other nations.

 

[eyedomainous]

Land and wealth taken from, or generated by, slaves and slavery did not vanish into thin air 150 years ago, it remains the economic foundation for many, families and corporations to this day as it gets passed down generation after generation.

I, and 'Liberal Democrats' DO NOT "excuse" or "coddle" laziness; -- again, that's the simplistic, 'lazy thinking labeling' of Conservatives and Republicans. Beyond the humanitarian aspects, Liberals, see welfare as an investment in the poorest of the poor, so that they, and/or their children, may contribute to society in the future.

You -in all of your posts, like Republicans, only point out the cost of food stamps and welfare. Liberals look at both sides of the ledger. We know that the ROI of welfare is a great deal for America, and the world.

I see you have JazzHero.com - yet you fail to connect the dots that Ragtime, Jazz, Blues, Rock'n Roll, Hip Hop, just to mention music... predominately came from poor people, black and white, who got welfare at some point in their life. I'm a Jazz fan too, with Jazzurl.com, the great Louis Armstrong not only lived in public housing -for abandoned kids, but that's where he picked-up a donated cornet.

Now, look at the returns, to taxpayers, from sports stars -Babe Ruth (raised on welfare in a orphanage) comes to mind. Or, fashion - Damon Johns comes to mind. Of course most past food stamp recipients do not become rich and famous. They're 'invisible', working in blue collar jobs.

Bottom line, the returns... to US... economically, and the influence on world culture, far outweigh the costs... as entertainment is our biggest export.

The fact that you are still willing to coddle people who are using an event that occurred over 150 years ago to not contribute to society shows the depth of your gullibility and inability to comprehend the realities of modern-day society.

But, this is not a racial issue as much as it is a Democrat/Liberal issue; certainly there are people of every ethnicity and background wiling to vote for the party that allows them to continue to not work. Asking this voting block to work 40 hour weeks 50 weeks a year for their benefits would cause demonstrations and rioting at a national level.

 

[verbster]

Verb, you didnt quote anything so we have no idea who you are talking to.

To you.

BTW, Your theory of no-government has inspired me to write my own manifesto for a global benevolent dictatorship. Might as well aim high . . . straighten out this world. I figure if that punk Hubbard can invent a science fiction religion that people take seriously, it's not much of a stretch to world domination.

 

[Theo Goodman]

Great good for you fits perfectly with statist democraty party ideology. So are you going to answer those questions? I answered all of yours, or are you going to answer questions with questions, change the subject and talk about "bogus" ?

But who is going to pay the debt?

 

[verbster]

Great good for you fits perfectly with statist democraty party ideology. So are you going to answer those questions? I answered all of yours, or are you going to answer questions with questions, change the subject and talk about "bogus" ?

But who is going to pay the debt?

Just because I question what people write, doesn't mean I'm affiliated with a certain party.

You can call your replies answers if it suits you. The bogus list is what you call answers and I call bogus. Ne'r the twain shall meet.

Yes, I'll continue to ask questions. Even when my third eye opens after my other two close.

I have no debt.

 

[eyedomainous]

@verbster
Thanks for catching, and correcting, my Jackson / Johnson typo.

I also should have been more clear... the post Civil War land settlement for freed slaves was so they could feed themselves.... as the first form of 'food stamps' came from Union Armies -who had to feed the thousands of slaves they freed -who then followed the armies around, mostly for safety.

Gen. Sherman, with Lincoln's backing, met with black leaders to ask them what they needed to support themselves, and they said land.... so the "Forty Acres and A Mule" -per farm family, came about.

Point being, Liberals and Blacks sat down and solved the 'food stamp' problem in 1865. Conservatives, quickly unsolved it and have been bitching about the Liberal 'welfare state' feeding 'lazy' people ever since.

Also, when you look at food stamp numbers in California... you have to factor in the fastest growing sector of recipients -who are military families.

 

[Theo Goodman]

Just because I question what people write, doesn't mean I'm affiliated with a certain party.

You can call your replies answers if it suits you. The bogus list is what you call answers and I call bogus. Ne'r the twain shall meet.

Yes, I'll continue to ask questions. Even when my third eye opens after my other two close.

I have no debt.

Your right, however what you describe fits to a particular party.
You have no argument therefore no answers and instead like to use words like bogus and fantasy.
In your bogus might makes right pro statist fanasy the goverment is needed to protect ourselves from ourelves.

But who will pay the national debt?

 

[verbster]

Your right, however what you describe fits to a particular party.
You have no argument therefore no answers and instead like to use words like bogus and fantasy.
In your bogus might makes right pro statist fanasy the goverment is needed to protect ourselves from ourelves.

But who will pay the national debt?

You still don't seem to understand. I've not claimed to have any answers. And my questions, although they have proven to be ineffective were meant to have you explain how certain actions would be done so you would connect the dots and realize how unrealistic your answers were.

Very seldom does might make right. What it does do, with a little smarts added, is make efficiency. There's a reason nature give animals the instinct to gather together with leaders and followers: it works. You may call it a fantasy; I call it reality. That's why you can't show any examples.

In my opinion, no one is going to pay the national debt. There is no incentive. Think about it. Our national debt is a self-made welfare state. The whole nation is getting something for nothing. And it's not just Democrats; every Republican president since he 1950's has added to the debt. If it were that important, we wouldn't be adding to it.

My last word on this will be the final lines from the poem by Emma Lazarus that graces the Statue of Liberty, and that we used to respect:

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore,
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Perhaps that message should be changed to "My name is America: Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair...."

 

[Theo Goodman]

You still don't seem to understand. I've not claimed to have any answers. And my questions, although they have proven to be ineffective were meant to have you explain how certain actions would be done so you would connect the dots and realize how unrealistic your answers were.

Very seldom does might make right. What it does do, with a little smarts added, is make efficiency. There's a reason nature give animals the instinct to gather together with leaders and followers: it works. You may call it a fantasy; I call it reality. That's why you can't show any examples.

In my opinion, no one is going to pay the national debt. There is no incentive. Think about it. Our national debt is a self-made welfare state. The whole nation is getting something for nothing. And it's not just Democrats; every Republican president since he 1950's has added to the debt. If it were that important, we wouldn't be adding to it.

My last word on this will be the final lines from the poem by Emma Lazarus that graces the Statue of Liberty, and that we used to respect:

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore,
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Perhaps that message should be changed to "My name is America: Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair...."

You still don't seem to understand. I've not claimed to have any answers. And my questions, although they have proven to be ineffective were meant to have you explain how certain actions would be done so you would connect the dots and realize how unrealistic your answers were.

Very seldom does might make right. What it does do, with a little smarts added, is make efficiency. There's a reason nature give animals the instinct to gather together with leaders and followers: it works. You may call it a fantasy; I call it reality. That's why you can't show any examples.

In my opinion, no one is going to pay the national debt. There is no incentive. Think about it. Our national debt is a self-made welfare state. The whole nation is getting something for nothing. And it's not just Democrats; every Republican president since he 1950's has added to the debt. If it were that important, we wouldn't be adding to it.

My last word on this will be the final lines from the poem by Emma Lazarus that graces the Statue of Liberty, and that we used to respect:

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore,
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Perhaps that message should be changed to "My name is America: Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair...."

You still don't seem to understand. I've not claimed that you clamed to have any answers. None the less I am asking you questions about the system that you hold to be needed and good. You have not answered , at all.

-Very seldom does might make right. What it does do, with a little smarts added, is make efficiency. There's a reason nature give animals the instinct to gather together with leaders and followers: it works. You may call it a fantasy; I call it reality. That's why you can't show any examples.-

No goverment does not mean no leaders or no working together, however this would be voluntary. Your "reality" is a fantasty that relys on the use of force to enforce what you are speaking of, so in your fantasy might does in fact make right. Why do you do what a cop says?

Ireland, Iceland, Africa, Spain all have anarchist history, those are examples. There is no need for goverment in nature. Goverment is not an instinct.



-In my opinion, no one is going to pay the national debt. There is no incentive. Think about it. Our national debt is a self-made welfare state. The whole nation is getting something for nothing. And it's not just Democrats; every Republican president since he 1950's has added to the debt. If it were that important, we wouldn't be adding to it.-

You are using the argument that becaue I can not find an example that meets your exact critera of 10,000 people in a moder urban zone that use the NAP. However there is no exmple of any country ever paying off such a debt (as the US national debt, but it is generaly accepted as ok to continue on adding this debt, even though there is no example of such a thing ever being paid off. If we are going to hold systems and concepts to the critera of showing concrete examples of them working over periods of time, fine, then we need to do that with all things. As I said earlier TJ and BF didnt need these examples in the 1700s.


-you would connect the dots and realize how unrealistic your answers were.-
Would you like a construction contract outline as an answer? General questions get general answers. What part is not realistic exactly? When are you going to connect the dots and see that we do not need goverment to build a road, or live for that matter.


Now we have it , Nobody is going to pay the national debt, a symptom of an excellently functioning system. Maybe voting will change something, hummm.

"despair" oh yes oh yes

 

[Domainace]

In my opinion, no one is going to pay the national debt. There is no incentive. Think about it. Our national debt is a self-made welfare state. The whole nation is getting something for nothing. And it's not just Democrats; every Republican president since he 1950's has added to the debt. If it were that important, we wouldn't be adding to it.

Ah, the magic wonderland called the USA, where everybody (especially those who are "connected" or who work for the government) get "something for nothing" and never have to pay it back.

Those prescription drugs everyone is taking over there must be pretty good stuff. Too bad nobody will be able to afford them in a few years

 

[RogueWriter]

That said, it wouldn't be easy to get the "lazy" ones off the program. Your suggestion of making them work sounds simple, but would be incredibly tough to implement. We're talking jobs for millions of people, and the oversight it would take.

Well, the excuse the left uses for allowing 20 million illegal aliens into this country is that they do the jobs no one else is willing to do............ahem. Two issues solved with one act.

 

[eyedomainous]

All those able bodied men and women who have become experts in being lazy and milking the system, should be made to do community or other types of work in exchange for the food stamps, or SNAP cards or whatever you call it. That way they can become productive members of society, instead of just milking the system while irritating a lot of hard working people.

Generally a good idea, but, I think, people on welfare are supposed to be looking for a job... in various 'welfare-to-work' programs. So having them do community service jobs would just prolong the time they need welfare. And folks can only get aid for a limited time, I think its 3 years, or 5 years, before they are on their own... which is one of the reasons I don't worry about it much.

Also, the ugly reality is... not everybody gets integrated into the workforce, or society for that matter. The streets are full of them. My hope is with the web. because its working for me... and I came from the streets.

Fact is, many who can't find a job, or bring themselves to 'work for the man', need to virtually immigrate via the web. Again, works for me... half to 80% of my income comes from overseas.

 

[verbster]

Well, the excuse the left uses for allowing 20 million illegal aliens into this country is that they do the jobs no one else is willing to do............ahem. Two issues solved with one act.

I'd bet you couldn't work out the details to put that many people into that many jobs in under five years, especially since you'd have to meet them to find someway to decide who is lazy and who isn't. Or maybe you were thinking to just round them all up and ship them out . . .a little taste of "Arbeit macht frei"?
And then how are you going to get the lazy ones to the job? You going to bus half a million lazies from NY to Florida?
Where do the busses come from?
Where will everyone live?
What about the kids and schools and food and such?
Good luck.

 

[eyedomainous]

Looks like someone heard GILSAN.

Starting in October, New Mexico plans to restore a 20-hour-a-week work requirement for an estimated 26,600 childless adults to get food stamps. The mandate was suspended in 2009 because of the national recession. ... The department also proposes to broaden who must search for a job...
​

So 26,600 people will have to work 20 hours a week and search for a job in order to get $265 a month in Food Stamps. Glad I never bothered with food stamps or welfare (unemployment benefits, or even my veteran's benefits for that matter. I find the whole bureaucratic "benefits" process dehumanizing).

 

[RogueWriter]

I'd bet you couldn't work out the details to put that many people into that many jobs in under five years...

Everyday, 20 million people or so break the law by speeding. We can't possibly give every one of them a ticket, so we should just give up and let people drive at will, without rule of law, regardless of who their reckless driving kills. We can't stop all of them, so let's do nothing. Great plan.

Meanwhile, with 20 million health care freeloaders out of the system, costs go down, turn around time for care speeds up, quality of care goes up. A plethora of good things occur, and it all begins with a secure border, and enforcement of existing immigration policy.

But, you just sit there and do nothing, because you can't do it all at once, bam.