The USA Political Thread

[lennco]

Here you can spout your USA political views.

Rules:
1. Keep it clean
2. No fighting
3. Respect the views of others.
4. US Political views, No Religious views
5. Have fun

:wave:

 

[Theo Goodman]

Maybe the american cops are just more efficient, that is why we have more people in prison per capita than:

JB: Australia
Austria
Belgium
France
Greece
Hong Kong
Hungary
Ireland
Italy
Netherlands
Spain
UK
many more

Not only that it still doesnt take into account that

Dom: 1- Almost half of all Americans will be arrested sometime in their life

although I dont have the numbers on hand I bet that this number is lower in :

JB: Australia
Austria
Belgium
France
Greece
Hong Kong
Hungary
Ireland
Italy
Netherlands
Spain
UK
many more

Not only that, with less cops, more arrests and more people in prison there is still higher crime than in :

JB: Australia
Austria
Belgium
France
Greece
Hong Kong
Hungary
Ireland
Italy
Netherlands
Spain
UK
many more

But since its a melting pot then a police state like government is to be expected I guess, lets vote hillary in , she will fix it.

 

[Domainace]

Police per capita is pertinent, but I was talking about how "normal" it is to be arrested. People have been trained to accept that high figure. And many countries, while not paragons of freedom, simply don't have enough government power to check on everybody as the US does. Granted, they would if they could.

As always, everybody is going to define "police state" differently. But part of the definition to me is the state of mind of the government and the populace. Is the government the people's master or their servant? Where on that continuum do they fall, and in which direction are they moving? And are the people wary or complacent?

America's ideal is the melting pot. It's certainly not that though. People are more divided than ever into various interest groups. America is becoming almost tribal in that sense.

 

[JB Lions]

Police per capita is pertinent, but I was talking about how "normal" it is to be arrested. People have been trained to accept that high figure. And many countries, while not paragons of freedom, simply don't have enough government power to check on everybody as the US does. Granted, they would if they could.

As always, everybody is going to define "police state" differently. But part of the definition to me is the state of mind of the government and the populace. Is the government the people's master or their servant? Where on that continuum do they fall, and in which direction are they moving? And are the people wary or complacent?

America's ideal is the melting pot. It's certainly not that though. People are more divided than ever into various interest groups. America is becoming almost tribal in that sense.

Of course we're divided, that's what happens when you're free. People feel free to make threats against our own President, what would happen in other countries - https://www.google.com/search?q=off...nst+government&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official

I understand the high arrests but that goes back to what we talked about during summer, many factors, some talked about during the gun discussion. Most arrests are for drug abuse violations, which took off in the 80's and the "War on Drugs". That is one area I think we can do better on and with the legalization of marijuana is many states, it should help. I'm curious for Germany and Japan. What offenses are people getting arrested for here in the United States, that they wouldn't over there.

 

[GILSAN]

Monaco = 1,374
American Samoa = 720
Singapore = 752
And the worst of all by far: Vatican = 15,625

Now let’s look at these contrasts between similar countries:

Sri Lanka = 438, but Bangladesh = 83
Argentina = 558, yet their neighbor Chile = 182
Kuwait = 504, while Iran = 80

How about these two Caribbean islands, both of which I’ve visited:
St. Maarten = 528, while Saint Barthélemy just 15 miles away has = 137

All these numbers don’t tell the whole story of why the US has 256, while Portugal has 462 and next door Spain has 511 and the stylish Monaco has 1,374. However I have to agree that the US is much, much more of a Police State than Portugal will ever be.

I've lived in both and know what I’m talking about, but I do understand why US cops are so paranoia and aggressive in many parts of the country.

 

[JB Lions]

Monaco = 1,374
American Samoa = 720
Singapore = 752
And the worst of all by far: Vatican = 15,625

Now let’s look at these contrasts between similar countries:

Sri Lanka = 438, but Bangladesh = 83
Argentina = 558, yet their neighbor Chile = 182
Kuwait = 504, while Iran = 80

How about these two Caribbean islands, both of which I’ve visited:
St. Maarten = 528, while Saint Barthélemy just 15 miles away has = 137

All these numbers don’t tell the whole story of why the US has 256, while Portugal has 462 and next door Spain has 511 and the stylish Monaco has 1,374. However I have to agree that the US is much, much more of a Police State than Portugal will ever be.

I've lived in both and know what I’m talking about, but I do understand why US cops are so paranoia and aggressive in many parts of the country.

Yes, you see Portugal has almost twice the amount of police per capita. Maybe why there is less crime? The police state you're living in with police all over the place. People are afraid to step out of line. Also:

Gallup: Portuguese government one of the most corrupt – Portugal

That vote was from the Portuguese people.

http://portuguese-american-journal....-government-one-of-the-most-corrupt-portugal/

"US cops are so paranoia and aggressive in many parts of the country. "

Yes, you watch a lot of Live Leak videos. Normal everyday stuff is not going to show up there. You live in a country of 10 million people, U.S. almost 314 million. Do the math. When you have 31x the population, maybe, you'll have more incidents?

Oh, this seems nice:

"Police attack Portuguese people protesting austerity measures"

http://www.presstv.com/detail/232858.html

---------- Post added at 06:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:29 PM ----------

Wanted to add this, maybe one of the reasons there are so many arrests, is because we keep letting criminals out, only to arrest them over and over again. See, America is very lenient. I think we need to actually be tougher. Here are 2 examples I bookmarked from where I live:

3 arrested in sex trafficking case in Orlando

55 felonies

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/3-...ando/-/1637132/23864144/-/w51488/-/index.html

Man charged with attempted first degree murder after shooting of Orlando police officer

23 years old. 40 arrests, 26 felonies

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...hot-20130723_1_shooting-police-officer-rooney

How are people with 26 felonies, 55 felonies, even walking the street? It's a pretty clear pattern of people that don't want to obey the laws of our society. With that kind of track record, you can pretty much guess (right) that after you let them out, there will be more victims.

And where I live, people want more police, not less. Just not in the budget tho.

 

[verbster]

1- Almost half of all Americans will be arrested sometime in their life.

Bullshit.

In any other country of the world I am familiar with, this is an outrageous statistic.

That’s because it’s not true.
I don’t how this got turned into comparing crime in countries again, but I can see by just looking at the link below that it doesn’t say what you are claiming. Did you actually read it? Did you read the part about it also includes arrests for “minor” crimes like truancy? What a joke.

This link says that almost half of all males are arrested before they turn 23.

What makes you think this “peer reviewed” paper’s claims are accurate?

Being arrested is a traumatic and often life-destroying experience in most countries. In the US, it's just par for the course. And yet, the country is not a police state, right?.

Yeah, sure . . . I never know when the jack-boots are going to break down my door, drag me away and pull out all my fingernails because I watched NBC TV instead of the State propaganda channel, Fox. Or maybe you’re talking about the sand-bagged machine gun bunker roadblocks on all state border roads and the bribes I have to pay to get a passport and leave the country?

2- The police presence in the US is quite heavy. Yet, crime is far from under control. The fallacy here is that government and police are needed to keep people from becoming animals. That opinion reflects an especially poor opinion of human beings. When people are left on their own, they form cultures -and the culture discourages anti-social behavior. In countries with a strong culture, that is more than sufficient to maintain a peaceful society. In countries with a decayed or absent culture, people run amuck - and no amount of police can stop that. It's not your government that keeps you safe. It's your culture. The more you assign cultural responsibilities to the government, the farther you go down that line to chaos.

Like the misinterpreted arrest claim, you apparently didn’t read what I wrote, either. I said humans are social animals that need leadership, starting as far back as religion or science says we started, and still need it today. We grouped together for survival, not culture. And we sought leadership from the person who could keep us alive. If “culture” were the dominant factor, we would live in a classless, stateless utopian society of global and local peace and love, with everyone contributing/sharing within every community (also known as Marxism). But it isn’t, and we don’t. The only culture-driven societies I know of are not human. And they still have leaders, hierarchies and violence.

 

[Domainace]

Did you read the part about it also includes arrests for “minor” crimes like truancy? What a joke.

Thank you for making my point. People are arrested for all kinds of minor transgressions that wouldn't be arrestable offences in most countries. In other words, the police and courts are over aggressive.
Do you think it's right to arrest people for not attending school, or to arrest their parents for home schooling them?

Or to arrest two otherwise law-abiding guys who maybe threw a swing at each other during a heated argument? Give them a criminal record and courts dates and all that fun stuff? They would not normally be arrested in Japan. They might have to go to the police station until they cooled down, but then they would be released without charges. Seems to work.

How about arresting people for public intoxication, though they are not bothering anyone else? That happens in the US as well. I won't even get into soft drink bans!

Japan is a culture-led society, and I assure you it is human. A good example is that I can open a restaurant here for a few hundred dollars, and serve liquor. In the States, the liquor license alone would cost that. Then there are the health inspections and other licenses. People like you would say that without the government protecting us, evil restaurant owners will poison us.

Yet in the heavily regulated US, restaurants are notably dirtier with nastier food than the far more numerous unregulated restaurants in Japan. Why is that, if not culture?

I might accept a leader if he was helping us live a better life. Unfortunately, that's not what most leaders do.

Incidentally, even in Russia, Iran and China, there are no "sand-bagged machine gun bunker roadblocks on all state border roads" and "bribes I have to pay to get a passport and leave the country." You are talking about Hollywood images of police states.

If “culture” were the dominant factor, we would live in a classless, stateless utopian society of global and local peace and love,

You lost me there. Maybe we have 2 very different definitions of "culture."

 

[Theo Goodman]

JB:How are people with 26 felonies, 55 felonies, even walking the street?

Not sure, but it could have something to do with overcrowding.

JB:Gallup: Portuguese government one of the most corrupt

Without commenting on Gallup, the EU did its own research, they found that the EU has a MAJOR corruption problem in ALL of the states, and Ukraine wants to join the EU to get rid of a corrupt president?

Verb:And we sought leadership from the person who could keep us alive. If “culture” were the dominant factor, we would live in a classless, stateless utopian society of global and local peace and love, with everyone contributing/sharing within every community (also known as Marxism).

Hi, imho that isnt marxism, in short true marxism would be dictaorship of the proletariat which is hardly classless and it isnt a dictatorship of a culture. Marxism is inheritly authoritarian.

---------- Post added at 11:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:33 AM ----------

JB: Oh, this seems nice:

"Police attack Portuguese people protesting austerity measures"

http://www.presstv.com/detail/232858.html

Its great when you can find dramatic pictures on the internet.

This is a very good video where Ben Brucato really breaks down a bad case of police bruitality in the USA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_03tVpIo0M&feature=player_embedded

 

[verbster]

Hi, imho that isnt marxism, in short true marxism would be dictaorship of the proletariat which is hardly classless and it isnt a dictatorship of a culture. Marxism is inheritly authoritarian

I'm speaking of the classless, stateless utopia of theoretical Marxism, post proletariat revolution, post capitalism stuff, like utopian socialism or theoretical/true communism: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" type of stuff. Complete sharing, no money, etc. (That which I think is great in theory, but is not attainable in any manner that I can foresee.)

 

[JB Lions]

Its great when you can find dramatic pictures on the internet.

This is a very good video where Ben Brucato really breaks down a bad case of police bruitality in the USA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_03tVpIo0M&feature=player_embedded

Exactly, that's my point. You guys find some random stuff on the U.S. and scream police state. I can do that for any country, numerous things I could find in Germany

http://revolution-news.com/hamburg-police-attacked-rote-flora-demo-hh2112/

 

[Theo Goodman]

Hi,
I didnt start listing countries. What random stuff did I pull up about the USA? That it has one of the highest per capita prison populations for industrialised countries

JB: Random

? Sorry I dont see tha tas random. It is not even new, it has been like that for a while, even wiki will agree. As far as the article on H-Post, yea of course it is a tad bit viral-written, but if you are arrested for a minor charge, then you are arrested, or are we saying that these people were not arrested fat all? How severe of a charge it not the issue. We have alreay established that it is not allowed to compare the USA to any other country since the USA is so different, therefore the only way to do it would be in a vaccum were nothing else exsits except the USA.

Verb:I'm speaking of the classless, stateless utopia of theoretical Marxism, post proletariat revolution, post capitalism stuff, like utopian socialism or theoretical/true communism: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" type of stuff. Complete sharing, no money, etc. (That which I think is great in theory, but is not attainable in any manner that I can foresee.)

Please tell me what system doesnt decribe a utopia as the ultmate goal.
This here:

Verb:utopian society of global and local peace and love, with everyone contributing/sharing within every community

is what it is suppost to be like now, or is the goal at least, it is even enforeced by the US and NATO military world wide. Used as a justifcation for military action in order to -spread democracy- which should lead to a utipian society of local peace and love with everyone contributing and sharing within every community.

---------- Post added at 03:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:59 PM ----------

JB:numerous things I could find in Germany

Im sure our hero Hillary Clinton would agree.

 

[Kate]

What random stuff did I pull up about the USA? That it has one of the highest per capita prison populations for industrialised countries ?

The highest, by far.

I think the problem in the US is that the correctional system, like the military industrial complex, is big business. It depends on a regular if not growing stream of inmates to run, thrive and prosper. The system runs according to its own economic logic, not along the perceived needs of society. Because it's a business.

 

[JB Lions]

The highest, by far.

I think the problem in the US is that the correctional system, like the military industrial complex, is big business. It depends on a regular if not growing stream of inmates to run, thrive and prosper. The system runs according to its own economic logic, not along the perceived needs of society. Because it's a business.

Wouldn't keeping felons in prison help society and make them more money?

 

[verbster]

The highest, by far.

I think the problem in the US is that the correctional system, like the military industrial complex, is big business. It depends on a regular if not growing stream of inmates to run, thrive and prosper. The system runs according to its own economic logic, not along the perceived needs of society. Because it's a business.

I think you're partly correct, but a huge part of the problem is the amount of prisoners sent away for drugs.

 

[Kate]

Yup. A lot of people detained for nonviolent crimes, or victimless crimes.

 

[eyedomainous]

The U.S. has the most prisoners in the world because it has, by far, the most laws in the world.

The more laws, the more lawbreakers. More law breakers = more crime, driving politicians to make more laws... and the cycle repeats itself, election after election. Especially with the "tough on crime" (plantation politics) of republicans.

"Police State" or Plantation State?

Few people realize plantation owners used to "store" slaves in local and state prisons, where the Govt paid the overhead and shared in the profits of using, and renting-out, slave labor.

Local and state policy also allowed for the arrest of free blacks, who once in jail, could be sold into slavery. The Oscar winning film 12 Years A Slave depicts one such story, but this practice was State law in places like Virginia.

After the Civil War, the plantation morphed into a prison system of Slavery By Another Name.

What's telling is... before the Civil War, ethnic immigrant Whites, at 3% of the population were 40% of the prisoners. After the Civil War, Plantation Politics took over; the Black prison population spiked, leveled-off a bit, then exploded again after the 60's Civil Rights / Integration rulings.

In short, The Plantation feeds on the 'Profit in a Pound of Flesh'. While the Prison Plantation feeds on whomever is 'off the plantation'.

 

[Theo Goodman]

EYE: The U.S. has the most prisoners in the world because it has, by far, the most laws in the world.

I doubt that the US has the most laws in the world.

EYE: "tough on crime" (plantation politics) of republicans.

I would not give republicans exclusivity for being "tough on crime".

 

[DU]

Someone flipped the switch...

RIP Tony Benn
3.14.2014

 

[JB Lions]

Someone flipped the switch...

RIP Tony Benn
3.14.2014

Another smoker that lived a long life - http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...-pipe-cool-pictures_n_4772600.html?1394781777

Confirming my one vice rule to longevity,

 

[verbster]

Going by the ratio of executions vs exonerations, I wouldn't want to be on a capital case jury.

http://www.clarkprosecutor.org/html/death/usexecute.htm