The USA Political Thread

[lennco]

Here you can spout your USA political views.

Rules:
1. Keep it clean
2. No fighting
3. Respect the views of others.
4. US Political views, No Religious views
5. Have fun

:wave:

 

[JB Lions]

"then the number is up."

No, it's still not up. I literally just posted the link to the numbers, going thru all the different U's. All down.

"Unemployment is more than twice the official 5 percent rate when all those who want jobs but have given up looking for work are counted."

What 5%?

Read up on Shadow Stats - https://www.google.com/search?q=sha...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Bit of a joke.

 

[Theo Goodman]

"What are the numbers like compared to the rules in place 40 years ago?"

No idea, do you know? I am talking about a particular segment of the population that is no longer accounted for in the stats.

" all the different U's."
Yea all the differnt U´s are going down that is true. Depending on what U you use to gauge unemployment then you will get a drasticly different %

However if you take into account people "who were defined out of official existence in 1994" then the current rate is up.


"Unemployment is more than twice the official 5 percent rate when all those who want jobs but have given up looking for work are counted."

What 5%?
"

The 5% that it was at when that was said. That is the 5% the article is talking about, I guess.

the quote is from this opinion article that was linked and used as a footnote on the opinion site "rationalwiki" http://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Economist-challenges-government-data-3283020.php


http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/01/08/us-usa-economy-depression-idUSTRE5077TM20090108

 

[JB Lions]

"What are the numbers like compared to the rules in place 40 years ago?"

No idea, do you know? I am talking about a particular segment of the population that is no longer accounted for in the stats.

" all the different U's."
Yea all the differnt U´s are going down that is true. Depending on what U you use to gauge unemployment then you will get a drasticly different %

However if you take into account people "who were defined out of official existence in 1994" then the current rate is up.


"Unemployment is more than twice the official 5 percent rate when all those who want jobs but have given up looking for work are counted."

What 5%?
"

The 5% that it was at when that was said. That is the 5% the article is talking about, I guess.

the quote is from this opinion article that was linked and used as a footnote on the opinion site "rationalwiki" http://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Economist-challenges-government-data-3283020.php


http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/01/08/us-usa-economy-depression-idUSTRE5077TM20090108

If I take into account stats conspiracy theorists love to use or that has been debunked, but I won't. What you posted only comes from them. There is plenty of debunk stuff out there like:

http://www.rationalskepticism.org/general-debunking/debunking-shadowstats-t38187.html

And other sites taking this silliness apart. But if you want to hang your hat on that, so be it.

If you want to think the Unemployment rate is going up, when it's factually not - http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t15.htm

First, it's oh, we can't use the number we normally use when talking about Unemployment, let's use the big number. Ok, we use that, and it's going down as well. Oh, we can use that then, let me use Shadow Stats.

I don't know what to tell you. It's not the first time in this thread you went that route. Push reality and truth aside, and find some random nut on the internet and base your conclusions off of that.

 

[DU]

In 2012 the largest growth in jobs was in the category "Personal Care Aids" with a media salary of under $20,000. Factor in tax, healthcare and it's not exactly providing a lot of purchasing power.

These are the people you pay to look after your parents and grandparents,

4 out of the top 5 pay under $25K. Plenty to feed a family a healthy diet and send kids off to college (or pay off that college debt)

The Economy is doing greeeeaaaat.... if you've got money already.

---------- Post added at 02:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:55 AM ----------

I notice that no one here can use the quote button. It's not complicated. If you need help please ask any random 5 year old

 

[Theo Goodman]

" I take into account stats conspiracy theorists love to use or that has been debunked, but I won't"

The stats that you are quoting have very much been taken into account. All the U´s are taken into account. This information is from the goverment. Just the people that were counted pre-1994 are also couted as well. If you count them too then the rate is up. "conspiracy theorist" is a word that is thrown around when there is no other agument left, instead of looking at how things were caculated just call the person a conspiracy theorist and the agument should be over. Shall we cal Obama a conspiracy theorist because he went to Trinity church were every Sunday things that could be called "conspiracy theories" were in the sermon?

Reuters thought it was such nonsense (shadow stats) that it was called "not such an outlandish idea". I agree every time that the U numbers are down, still if you calulate and inlcude all people without work the number is up. It has ZERO to do with a conspiracy theory, it is simply a way to calculate unemployment that happend to be used by the goverment in the past, thats it. You could even get an average using all the U´s and then old way, maybe it would be down then.

" Push reality and truth aside"

The truth is that it is a way to calulate the unemployment, it is not "untrue" or outside of "reality". So the people without work that are not inlucded in the stats are not real?

I never said any of the U´s are "wrong" in of themselves, I contend that they do not take into account all of the unemployed, thats it. If that is a conspiracy theory so be it.

how people accept "debunkers" that make a sport out of "debunking" that post on a forum more than any "conspiracy theorsit" is mind bloggling. The debunkers are by no means objective and in every way conspiracy theorists themselves, for the most part. Just because you put the name "rational" ,"debunk", or "wiki" on a forum or website doesnt help.

 

[verbster]

I contend that they do not take into account all of the unemployed, thats it. If that is a conspiracy theory so be it.

It's fine to have your own thoughts on how the unemployment rate should be calculated, but as long as everyone uses the same methodology, as Theo points out, the results will be the same, with no regard to As it is now, if the same system is used by either side of the aisle, it's an accurate result, especially if it's done the same way for many years. It's not worth arguing about.

Edit: Must have been falling asleep when posting this . . . barely makes sense.

On another topic, Putin says gays are welcome to the Olympics as long as they leave kids alone.

 

[Theo Goodman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-s2KCkjhJg&feature=youtu.be

 

[RogueWriter]

I always like posting these up to see Obama haters try to spin it, starting talking about U this and U that numbers. B bb bbu but, but it's not real, let me go find another number that tries to make it look bad.

First, I'm not a hater, I simply disagree with a vast majority of Obama's positions, which seem to be primarily based in fantasyland. But hate? No.

Second, If everyone left the workforce, and gave up looking for a job, unemployment would be 0%. Maybe that's what Obama is working towards, absolute zero.

 

[verbster]

First, I'm not a hater, I simply disagree with a vast majority of Obama's positions, which seem to be primarily based in fantasyland. But hate? No.

Second, If everyone left the workforce, and gave up looking for a job, unemployment would be 0%. Maybe that's what Obama is working towards, absolute zero.

Sheesh.

 

[RogueWriter]

Sheesh.

Sheesh back atcha.

 

[JB Lions]

First, I'm not a hater, I simply disagree with a vast majority of Obama's positions, which seem to be primarily based in fantasyland. But hate? No.

Second, If everyone left the workforce, and gave up looking for a job, unemployment would be 0%. Maybe that's what Obama is working towards, absolute zero.

Not a hater but then maybe Obama is working toward everybody leaving the workforce/give up looking for a job, c'mon now.

The numbers are calculated the same way as they were under Bush.

It's just the way it's setup. If you're a Republican or hate Obama, good news for the country, is bad news for you. So the fact that the economy is getting better, you don't like it. This just bodes well for Hillary. I mean, we still have 3 more years till the next President is sworn in. Looking at Unemployment alone and the rate it's going down, it should be somewhere in the 5's at worst. That would be on par with Bush's best numbers.

And Theo, it's not pre-94, it's 2014. Romney himself is fine with how the numbers are calculated because he specifically used those numbers and the 8% Unemployment rate in his commercials and his closing during the debates, how it's not under 8%. Now, it's 6.7% and dropping.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nQshxlMQWw

 

[Theo Goodman]

"And Theo, it's not pre-94, it's 2014"
I am not claiming otherwise, you mean to tell me that not having a job is different in a pre-1994 word and a 2014 world?Either you have work, or you dont 1999,1950,2020,2014. In the 2014 way to count its not 1,2,3 but rather: people that people that give up looking for work are not counted in the unemployment stats, as if they were........ employed.

I dont care about Romney and have ZERO to do with him as does the fact that people that people that give up looking for work are not counted in the unemployment stats, as if they were........ employed.

I have posted more than one time that republicans also use/d the same stats and that the discussion is not about democrat vs republican or obama vs. bush the continual push in this direction shows a highly rational partisan way of thinking.

Hillary Clinton - I will never ever ever support her, anyone that thinks rationaly would not either. If you think Obama is bad, wait till you see what Hillary brings.

 

[JB Lions]

I don't think Hillary cares whether you support her or not, since you can't even vote here being in Germany.

 

[Theo Goodman]

Using rational thought one would come to the conclusion that Americans living abroad can vote. A quick look at wiki would support this viewpoint. You could continue to try and attack my person, not sure how that changes how you count the unemployed though.

"
Second, If everyone left the workforce, and gave up looking for a job, unemployment would be 0%"

Using the current system of counting then this could be the outcome of one of the "U´s"

 

[verbster]

"
Second, If everyone left the workforce, and gave up looking for a job, unemployment would be 0%"

I know you're just quoting this absurd statement, but if everyone left the workforce, most of us would be dead within weeks.

Wouldn't have to worry about unemployment stats, though.

 

[Theo Goodman]

personal facts like where you live do not lend or detract from your argument

"I know you're just quoting this absurd statement, but if everyone left the workforce, most of us would be dead within weeks.

Wouldn't have to worry about unemployment stats, though."

Yes, it is an absurd way to count the unemployed.

 

[GILSAN]

HSBC Bank imposes restrictions on large cash withdrawals

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25861717

 

[Kate]

Have you seen the ridiculous EU rules on cash payments.
Now making cash payments over €,€€€ is a crime
That supposedly in order to curb money laundering - yeah right. Another way to control the populace. They must have learned a thing or two from the communists.

 

[GILSAN]

Have you seen the ridiculous EU rules on cash payments.
Now making cash payments over €,€€€ is a crime
That supposedly in order to curb money laundering - yeah right. Another way to control the populace. They must have learned a thing or two from the communists.

Big Banks are screwing us Big Time. Bring back the old style local savings banks, that were not involved in all the crap these banks are involved in.

Worst of all, is that Governments end up bailing them out. We need to follow Iceland's example.

 

[Theo Goodman]

If you are not a criminal what are you worried about?