The USA Political Thread

[lennco]

Here you can spout your USA political views.

Rules:
1. Keep it clean
2. No fighting
3. Respect the views of others.
4. US Political views, No Religious views
5. Have fun

:wave:

 

[verbster]

We should note that these figures refer to all gun-fire related deaths -- not just homicides, but also suicides and accidental deaths. In 2011, about one-quarter of firearm-related deaths were homicides, according to FBI and CDC data. Using total firearm-related deaths makes the case against guns more dramatic than just using homicides alone.

That's true; they were very clear about that. In fact, the paragraph used was a direct quote from the PolitiFact article that was linked in the post.

PolitiFact also said the numbers were true.

 

[Theo Goodman]

In Iceland a large ammount of the population have guns but there are not so many gun related deaths, doesnt seem that guns themselves are the real issue.

I think you are around 8 times more likley to be killed by a police officer than a terrorist in the USA. They mostly use guns.

 

[Kate]

In Iceland it's rifles mostly. Hunting gear. On the other hand handguns are normally prohibited. Even the police normally carry no guns on duty.
In general guns laws are tighter in Europe, but Switzerland is more permissive, very similar to the US I think. But in Switzerland you don't hear often in the news about some madman going on a shooting spree.
So the problem is not guns, but the people (especially in America).

 

[RogueWriter]

Here's a stat for you:

"More Americans have died from guns here in the United States since 1970 (nearly 1.4 million) than American soldiers have died in all the wars in our country’s history over more than 200 years (about 1.2 million)."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/15/o...the-killer-who-supports-gun-control.html?_r=0

I bet you could say the same thing about vehicular deaths, and smoking. As I recall, gun related deaths have significantly decreased over the last 20 years, in spite of several million new guns entering the market.

 

[DU]

I bet you could say the same thing about vehicular deaths, and smoking. As I recall, gun related deaths have significantly decreased over the last 20 years, in spite of several million new guns entering the market.

Read a very interesting article that put forth a high correlation between the violent crime rate and use of lead.

I meant to do more reading on it but never got around to it. May have to go back to it because as far as I recall they could statistically argue the violent crime rate down to specific areas based on the transition to and from lead based fuel.

Might be bunk but it was an interesting article.

 

[Theo Goodman]

If anyone knows a city or country that totaly banned handguns or guns in general and things were better afterward then lets hear about it.

 

[verbster]

If anyone knows a city or country that totaly banned handguns or guns in general and things were better afterward then lets hear about it.

it might be easier to find a country that freely allows guns to just about anyone, and see how they are doing . . . like, uh, the USA.

 

[Kate]

Or Switzerland...

Or Pakistan...

Or Yemen...

 

[Theo Goodman]

it might be easier to find a country that freely allows guns to just about anyone, and see how they are doing . . . like, uh, the USA.

Or iceland

 

[Theo Goodman]

oldie but goodie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1DhZyqsyRU

 

[verbster]

These countries have pretty different gun ownership situations than that of the USA.

 

[Theo Goodman]

yes, but they have guns, so if guns themselves were the problem then anywhere where people have guns those problems should also exist.

 

[verbster]

yes, but they have guns, so if guns themselves were the problem then anywhere where people have guns those problems should also exist.

Great example of faulty logic! Let's see, if A is somewhat similar to B, and B is somewhat similar to C, D and E, then A must be identical to C, D, and E, right?

 

[JB Lions]

One of the places mentioned was Iceland, which has a population of 320,137.

United States has about 314 million or 980x the population. So on population alone, I would expect more gun violence.

Easier to get guns.

Cheaper to get guns.

Big gun culture.

Poverty, I think is a major factor. You live in poverty or don't have a great home environment, more apt to be in gangs, which is responsible for a lot of the gun violence in this country.

Mental health, we probably could do better in this area.

etc.

 

[Theo Goodman]

"Great example of faulty logic! Let's see, if A is somewhat similar to B, and B is somewhat similar to C, D and E, then A must be identical to C, D, and E, right? "

"identical" no, simmilar, well yes , in that they are a lot of gun owners in those countries.

There are not really and identical comparisons on the earth as two things are very very rarely identical, they might be similar, but to compare similar things, that would be faulty logic.

There is no way to compare guns and the USA with anything other country, its just imposssible, unless they have gun laws that somehow caused gun violence to go down, then and only then may anyone compare the USA to another country. As very many anti-gun lobbiests do -piers morgan and Mr. Moore etal , they love to compare the USA to Europe but that is faulty logic, since the USA is not identical to Europe.

Also in Engliand and AUS , which are not identical to the USA but are similar in many ways, put in place stricter gun laws, however violent crime has not gone down as a result.




"
Easier to get guns."

Easier to get guns than any of those countries? In Swiss, you -have- to have a gun as part of your duty as a citizen. You are given a gun by the goverment during your military service, therefore there is no easier way to get a gun then for free from the goverment.



"
Big gun culture."

Um so in Iceland they dont have a "gun culture"? How do you measure the size of the "gun culture"?



"Poverty, I think is a major factor. You live in poverty or don't have a great home environment, more apt to be in gangs, which is responsible for a lot of the gun violence in this country."

Having stricter gun laws would surely help disarm gangs as they have attempted in some big citiies in the USA.

"Mental health, we probably could do better in this area."

Yes.

 

[JB Lions]

Easier to get guns than any of those countries? In Swiss, you -have- to have a gun as part of your duty as a citizen. You are given a gun by the goverment during your military service, therefore there is no easier way to get a gun then for free from the goverment.

Comparing Switzerland to U.S.:

"In 2005 over 10% of households contained handguns, compared to 18% of U.S. households that contained handguns. In 2005 almost 29% of households in Switzerland contained firearms of some kind, compared to almost 43% in the US"

We have more guns.

As far as gun culture, goes to our history, Wild, Wild West, Civil War etc. If somebody mentions guns, you think they think of Iceland or U.S. first?

Gangs and criminals don't care about the law, so stricter laws won't help much. You pointed that out yourself with your post about England and Australia - "put in place stricter gun laws, however violent crime has not gone down as a result."

Combine all the reasons and probably more I haven't touched on.

It is mainly poverty I think. You just look at crime maps, anywhere in the world for that matter, it's lower income, poor parts of cities.

 

[Theo Goodman]

Yes I agree , its not guns themselves. I see that with this quote that there are more guns, but the questions was "eaiser" and that is what I was talking about. I dont know another country to compare with besides swiss or iceland.Sure of course people think of the USA first. Ask anyone about almost anything and they would pick USA faster than Iceland "music" "food" "military" "crime" hell anything really. But since Iceland and Swiss are not identical to the USA , it would be faulty to compare them at all.

 

[Kate]

Yes, poverty is a factor (mental health too ).
Countries that are more egalitarian tend to be more peaceful.

The US also has a culture of violence. I think it's a rough country socially, also it has a ruthless justice and correctional system (remember, the US has more inmates than any other country). It's one of the few developed countries that has the death penalty. Violence is as American as apple pie :lala:

 

[GILSAN]

Yes, poverty is a factor (mental health too ).
Countries that are more egalitarian tend to be more peaceful.

The US also has a culture of violence. I think it's a rough country socially, also it has a ruthless justice and correctional system (remember, the US has more inmates than any other country). It's one of the few developed countries that has the death penalty. Violence is as American as apple pie :lala:

And lets not forget Hollywood that perpetuates and glorifies this violence all the time

 

[JB Lions]

Yes, poverty is a factor (mental health too ).
Countries that are more egalitarian tend to be more peaceful.

The US also has a culture of violence. I think it's a rough country socially, also it has a ruthless justice and correctional system (remember, the US has more inmates than any other country). It's one of the few developed countries that has the death penalty. Violence is as American as apple pie :lala:

You also have to factor in, using your country as an example, pretty much all the same background. 93% are Icelandic. Countries like the United States, England, more a melting pot, many different cultures. I think it's easier when you're all basically the same culture, less chance of culture clash. Your country didn't have to go thru some of the things the United States did. Our smallest state is like twice the population of your whole country. And with the same background, I wouldn't expect many issues. Take half the state of Vermont, populate it with 93% Icelandic people, I don't expect much crime.

Death penalty, there are people that deserve to die.

Incarceration rate, yes, we're #1 on that, and of course we have more, we have more population. And we are #1 in rate. But when looking at the stats, it's less than 1 out of 100. 99%+ not incarcerated is good. Some of that needs to be worked on, stuff like drug incarceration. That all took off in the 1980's with our "war on drugs"

But there is a flip side. I think we're way too lenient with a lot of cases. Recent one where I live, guy gets pulled over, shoots a police officer. He's 23, arrested 40 times, 26 felonies. How is someone like that even walking the street?