The USA Political Thread

[lennco]

Here you can spout your USA political views.

Rules:
1. Keep it clean
2. No fighting
3. Respect the views of others.
4. US Political views, No Religious views
5. Have fun

:wave:

 

[mr-x]

This was the source of rumors / accusations that Barack Obama was not born in America. Better record keeping could have prevented this too. - just saying.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...cy--months-announcing-bid-U-S-presidency.html

• Online archive from April 2007 by publishing agency Acton & Dystel has Mr Obama's birthplace listed as Kenya - two months after he announced he was running for president
  
• The same online archive dated two weeks later in April 2007 has changed the current U.S president's birthplace to Hawaii
  
• President Obama published Hawaiian birth certificate last year in hopes to end 'birther' theories
• This follows the discovery of a 1991 booklet from Acton & Dystel announcing that the Democrat was ‘born in Kenya and raised in Indonesia and Hawaii.’

 

[Keith]

They both speak to everyone, but generally voters are more likely to follow the advice of the candidate they support. Seems logical, no?

It seems sad.

The fact that people rely on someone else to form their opinion, they rely on Fox or CNN to guide their decisions, they are heavily influenced by social media platforms which are clearly biased...

We are living in a terrible time where the few are dictating and influencing how the country evolves.

 

[Joe N]

This was the source of rumors / accusations that Barack Obama was not born in America. Better record keeping could have prevented this too. - just saying.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...cy--months-announcing-bid-U-S-presidency.html

• Online archive from April 2007 by publishing agency Acton & Dystel has Mr Obama's birthplace listed as Kenya - two months after he announced he was running for president
  
• The same online archive dated two weeks later in April 2007 has changed the current U.S president's birthplace to Hawaii
  
• President Obama published Hawaiian birth certificate last year in hopes to end 'birther' theories
• This follows the discovery of a 1991 booklet from Acton & Dystel announcing that the Democrat was ‘born in Kenya and raised in Indonesia and Hawaii.’

Interesting! Certainly a lot of curious and conflicting information.

I would say that an official state record (like a birth certificate) probably trumps the other evidence. If it were really true that he was born elsewhere, you'd think they would have unearthed something more substantial.

 

[Joe N]

It seems sad.

The fact that people rely on someone else to form their opinion, they rely on Fox or CNN to guide their decisions, they are heavily influenced by social media platforms which are clearly biased...

We are living in a terrible time where the few are dictating and influencing how the country evolves.

Yeah, very much so. Funny that the "information age" is also the age where so many people take things at face value (like tweets) without factual verification.

I mean, we all suffer from unconscious bias. We all will seek out information that validates what we already believe. I'm not sure that will ever change.

I guess the best thing any of us can do is be willing to openly accept the possibility of the "other side" when we're presented with real facts.

 

[GILSAN]

Votes have literally been dripping in one drop at a time for a day and a half straight..... Pennsylvania 97% in ...Nevada 84% in .... there is absolutely no logic to Nevada being where they are,, none

Just saw some guy on CNN say that Nevada will only have full results on Sunday... giving them time to fabricate some more Biden votes!

 

[Joe N]

Just saw some guy on CNN say that Nevada will only have full results on Sunday... giving them time to fabricate some more Biden votes!

Not sure why they're so slow to count the votes there.

Fabricate more? When did they fabricate the first time?

 

[mr-x]

It's difficult to believe this is a good faith objection.

The simple fact of the matter is that people's decisions about whether to use mail-in voting were strongly influenced by their perception of risk of going to what are sometimes crowded voting locations or to wait in long lines in them, and potentially be exposed to persons carrying the coronavirus.

Now, one candidate's supporters included a sizeable contingent who, to varying degrees, believes the coronavirus is a hoax, and their candidate was bellowing loud and long for months about mail-in voting being insecure and rife with fraud.

Many people believe the response to the pandemic were more about politics than keeping people safe.

Conflicting information from the President, the CDC and the WHO probably to blame along with poor reporting and different standards between states.

This candidate repeatedly and publicly ridiculed people for taking precautions such as wearing masks as being "politically correct". Additionally, that candidate is more popular in rural areas where voting locations tend to be much less crowded.

Every study I'v read, published before 2019 indicate that mask do not help contain the flu virus. Dr Fauci explained early on why mask were not effective if not used properly.

Anyone with a modicum of common sense can understand that a mask not used properly offers very limited protection. Spend five minutes at a Home Depot or Target and count how many people touch their mask.

The other candidate appeared to take the risk of coronavirus much more seriously, and their campaign actively encouraged people to use mail-in voting. Additionally, that candidate is more popular in urban areas where voting locations are habitually sparse and overcrowded.

Except when he didn't. Many political leaders from Gov Newsome to Gov Cuomo ignored their own mandates.

It seems pretty obvious that, on the subject of coronavirus, the two candidates were actively appealing to different sets of voters, defined by those voters' perceptions of risk from the coronavirus, and that difference of perception certainly informed those voters' choices in the method they chose to vote.

Given that stark factual backdrop in the candidate's expressed attitudes toward the risk of the virus and the security of mail in voting, I can't see why you find it difficult to believe that the mail-in vote skewed more toward one candidate than the other.

 

[GILSAN]

Anyway, none of that adds up to fraud; just inefficiency.

And how would you know it's not fraud? The MSM could do a lot of investigating on it but they won't because virtually all the fraud is coming from the Democrat side.

It's wonderful being a Democrat when you have 95% of the Media on your side and covering up for you!

 

[jberryhill]

I believe that when the president speaks, it’s to the country, not to any specific group. The same should be said for any candidate running for the presidency, in this case Joe Biden.

If your theory is correct and Joe only speaks to his fellow dems, or coerces his supporters while ignoring the rest of America - is that a guy we want to preside over ALL US citizens?

What does that have to do with what large numbers of their voters believe?

If a candidate were to say, "I intend to have people with red hair shot on sight" then it's pretty freaking obvious that we can expect fewer people with red hair to vote for that candidate.

The candidate who says "I intend to have people with red hair shot on sight" doesn't have to "only speak to" people with blond, brown and black hair. That candidate can certainly say that to EVERYONE. But it is going to cause a probable shift in whether that candidate gets many votes from people with red hair.

It's pretty obvious that on the question of "Are you concerned about whether the risk of the viral pandemic might make it safer to vote by mail than in person?" you would get different percentages from Trump supporters and Biden supporters on whether they were concerned about the viral pandemic.

It has nothing to do with who they "speak to". Yes, Donald Trump told everyone that concern about the virus was overblown, and suggested it was a hoax. Surely you have heard him claiming that right after the election, everyone would open everything up and concern would vanish, since it was primarily being used as a political issue. And sure he said those things "to the country, not to any specific group."

Likewise, Biden has said things "to the country, not to any specific group" that the viral pandemic is real, and that the government needs to work constructively with epidemiologists on controlling the viral pandemic.

So, golly, people who believe the virus is a hoax are not going to worry about voting at polling stations, and people who believe the virus is real are going to exercise more caution and take advantage of mail-in voting.

That has nothing to do with whom either candidate "only speaks to". It has everything to do with the behavior of people who listen and believe one or the other candidate.

And that behavior is certainly going to be noticeable in which candidate's supports aren't worried about the virus and skew toward polling stations, and which candidate's supporters are worried and skew toward mail-in voting.

To interpret this blitheringly obvious point as some kind of assertion about who they are "speaking to" is hard to understand. The point is about who listens to whom and believes what.

 

[mr-x]

Interesting! Certainly a lot of curious and conflicting information.

I would say that an official state record (like a birth certificate) probably trumps the other evidence. If it were really true that he was born elsewhere, you'd think they would have unearthed something more substantial.

If I remember correctly, Barack didn't produce his certificate for sometime.

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/birth-certificate-long-form.pdf

 

[Joe N]

And how would you know it's not fraud? The MSM could do a lot of investigating on it but they won't because virtually all the fraud is coming from the Democrat side.

It's wonderful being a Democrat when you have 95% of the Media on your side and covering up for you!

I guess I won't know until the legal cases are complete.

It's wonderful just being able to say that everyone is corrupt as a way of supporting your views... That way you never have to do the tough work of seeking real evidence.

 

[jberryhill]

Many people believe the response to the pandemic were more about politics than keeping people safe.

Correct. But you are getting off track. Keith doesn't understand why there are places where mail-in votes favor Biden, while in-person votes favored Trump.

The "many people who believe the response to the pandemic were more about politics" were more likely not to worry about the safety of voting in-person, and would have largely supported Trump.

The other people, who were concerned about the virus and did not believe it was a political stunt, were more likely to use mail-in voting, and would have largely supported Biden.

Keith just can't wrap his head around why the mail-in vote versus in-person vote would be reflective of differing opinions about the reality of the viral pandemic, and for which candidate those concerns would cause those groups to prefer one voting method versus another.

 

[jberryhill]

If I remember correctly, Barack didn't produce his certificate for sometime.

And if I remember correctly, nobody asked to see Biden's. I wonder why that is. The president is not required to produce his birth certificate to satisfy a bunch of yahoos. Aside from which, the true believers are convinced that one is a forgery anyway.

 

[Joe N]

If I remember correctly, Barack didn't produce his certificate for sometime.

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/birth-certificate-long-form.pdf

Apparently Hawaii keeps the long form certificates confidential. He had to apply for permission. Maybe it took a while to get it?

Didn't Trump himself admit that Obama was born in the US?

 

[mr-x]

Not sure why they're so slow to count the votes there.

Fabricate more? When did they fabricate the first time?

Those are all good questions which should be ignored because we all know the same people that illegally spied on President Trump's first campaign. lied on FISA warrant applications and blackmailed a three star general wouldn't commit election fraud.

 

[mr-x]

And if I remember correctly, nobody asked to see Biden's. I wonder why that is. The president is not required to produce his birth certificate to satisfy a bunch of yahoos. Aside from which, the true believers are convinced that one is a forgery anyway.

Maybe because Biden grew up in America and didn't publish documents saying he was born in Ukraine.

Why did democrats question John McCain's eligibility. Why did democrats question Ted Cruz's eligibility?

 

[Joe N]

Those are all good questions which should be ignored because we all know the same people that illegally spied on President Trump's first campaign. liked on FISA warrant applications and blackmailed a three star general wouldn't commit election fraud.

What people are those? And now they've orchestrated national election fraud involving hundreds of thousands of fake ballots? Incredible! They sound like a real life Jack Bauer.

 

[GILSAN]

I guess I won't know until the legal cases are complete.

Exactly... lets wait and see!

It's wonderful just being able to say that everyone is corrupt as a way of supporting your views... That way you never have to do the tough work of seeking real evidence.

Virtually all cases of fraud found on previous elections were done by Democrats. They are by far much bigger cheats than Republicans.

And if a lot more fraud was not found, it's because Democrats made an excellent job of covering it up with the precious help of the lying, biased MSM.

 

[mr-x]

wut?

What people are those? And now they've orchestrated national election fraud involving hundreds of thousands of fake ballots? Incredible! They sound like a real life Jack Bauer.

Have you been asleep for four years?

https://thefederalist.com/2020/04/2...ns-about-crossfire-hurricane-in-new-releases/

 

[Keith]

What does that have to do with what large numbers of their voters believe?

If a candidate were to say, "I intend to have people with red hair shot on sight" then it's pretty freaking obvious that we can expect fewer people with red hair to vote for that candidate.

The candidate who says "I intend to have people with red hair shot on sight" doesn't have to "only speak to" people with blond, brown and black hair. That candidate can certainly say that to EVERYONE. But it is going to cause a probable shift in whether that candidate gets many votes from people with red hair.

It's pretty obvious that on the question of "Are you concerned about whether the risk of the viral pandemic might make it safer to vote by mail than in person?" you would get different percentages from Trump supporters and Biden supporters on whether they were concerned about the viral pandemic.

It has nothing to do with who they "speak to". Yes, Donald Trump told everyone that concern about the virus was overblown, and suggested it was a hoax. Surely you have heard him claiming that right after the election, everyone would open everything up and concern would vanish, since it was primarily being used as a political issue. And sure he said those things "to the country, not to any specific group."

Likewise, Biden has said things "to the country, not to any specific group" that the viral pandemic is real, and that the government needs to work constructively with epidemiologists on controlling the viral pandemic.

So, golly, people who believe the virus is a hoax are not going to worry about voting at polling stations, and people who believe the virus is real are going to exercise more caution and take advantage of mail-in voting.

That has nothing to do with whom either candidate "only speaks to". It has everything to do with the behavior of people who listen and believe one or the other candidate.

And that behavior is certainly going to be noticeable in which candidate's supports aren't worried about the virus and skew toward polling stations, and which candidate's supporters are worried and skew toward mail-in voting.

To interpret this blitheringly obvious point as some kind of assertion about who they are "speaking to" is hard to understand. The point is about who listens to whom and believes what.

This isn’t N Korea. For a candidate to suggest something to all vs kill folks if they don’t obey is apples to oranges.

People are people. Some are afraid of the virus and some are not. Some chose to vote via mail in out of fear and some didn’t. To say that dems are afraid of Covid or were coerced by Biden to stay home, at a disproportional rate to republicans, is an absurd position to take imo.