The .PRO Discussion

[InvisionTech]

It seems .PRO is slowly coming out of the cage with cheaper reg prices than they were a year ago and major registrars like netsol taking notice of the extension and promoting it.

Here are some that I picked up in last couple of days:

Alexandria.pro

Anchorage.pro

Arlington.pro

Belfast.pro

Birmingham.pro

Budapest.pro

Durham.pro

Fairfax.pro

Italian.pro

Lisbon.pro

Fire away with your regs after the relaunch on September 8th, 2008.

 

[mwzd]

Joomla! is a US trademark, registration number 3479210, it was filed 5 months before you registered the domain on 9 July 2007, published for opposition on 20 May 08, and registered on 5 Aug 08.

So the trademark was registered after the domain was purchased, isn't that a good thing? Plus do a search of domains with the word Joomla in them, you'll find tens of thousands, if not more. The domain was registered on the 15th of November 2007, almost a year before the tm was finally registered. But even these dates are meaningless, which will be apparent from -

And what little I know of tm law states that a tm holder must enforce his tm to have any chance of defending the tm, in fact, as an open source project, it has done the opposite - The project, when it was launched, encouraged the use of of Joomla in your domain names, coz at the time they needed to wean people away from the mambo brand. Kind of tough to turn back the clock now, and that too for one domain

Even now i personally know off and use at least 50 major sites and businesses who use the word Joomla in the domain itself.
- joomlart.com
- joomlashack.com
- joomlaxtreme.com
- joomlatutorials.com (belongs to brad baker, a joomla core member and forum leader)
- joomla-templates.com
- joomladesigns.co.uk
- bestofjoomla.com
- joomlaweb.com
- joomla-themes.co.uk
- howtojoomla.net
- design-joomla.eu
- joomla.at
- joomla24.com
- joomlazone.net
- youjoomla.com
- joomla-addons.org
I could go on all day if need be.

In fact, here are the domains for sale on sedo with the word Joomla in it -
http://www.sedo.com/search/searchre...nguage=us&search_type=advanced&keyword=joomla
549, for those unwilling to look

Somebody is willing to gamble 600 Euros on a .pro that they could lose if the trademark registrant Open Media Source Inc filed a UDRP claim.

1. The tm is owned by Open Source Matters, Inc. - don't know where you get your registrant name from. Their site is still viewable at http://www.opensourcematters.org which is not really a company but a front for the core team of this open source project - "Open Source Matters, Inc. (OSM) is a not-for-profit formed under United States law and exists to provide organizational, legal and financial support for the Joomla! open-source project. OSM has been incorporated as a New York not-for-profit to ensure the Joomla! project and future projects continue to exist beyond the participation of individual volunteers, to enable contributions of intellectual property and funds while providing a vehicle for limiting legal exposure for projects."

Doubtful that OSM would file a case, even less likely they are the bidder. Specially when they had given most people a 48 hour 'pre-registration' notice to book the same joomla*.tld name for themselves if they were using the mambo*.tld name for their website.

2. No one is risking anything by bidding/buying this domain except the chance that they would be looked upon as leaders in Joomla worldwide. :D

3. The only reason why someone would even begin to say stuff like this is to try and create fear in the mind of potential bidders and get the domain cheaply for themselves. :lol: Nice try there.

 

[InvisionTech]

There were a couple of threads on this issue as well on joomla.org forum... I don't think they are enforcing the TM. Otherwise, we would see a lot of popular websites that do joomla business shut down.

In many ways, joomla it self is popular because of these sites that provide services for joomla. As long as joomla.pro doesn't repackage the CMS code and try to resell it, I think the owner will be a okay. It is a perfect fit to provide joomla services, themes, modification and custom work.

If it was on auction few months back, I would have bid on it...

 

[mwzd]

As long as joomla.pro doesn't repackage the CMS code and try to resell it, I think the owner will be a okay.

Exactly right, Or even try to package another cms under the Joomla brand and sell that :D

It is a perfect fit to provide joomla services, themes, modification and custom work.

Yes it is, thank you. Even a directory etc, but then I guess you can read the description at sedo

If it was on auction few months back, I would have bid on it...

A few months back I wouldn't even have considered selling it, I wanted to rebrand one of my existing sites into this domain. Which probably explains why I'm regretting this so much.

 

[akcampbell]

So the trademark was registered after the domain was purchased, isn't that a good thing?

No, the filing date is the date that matters. Otherwise, I could launch a site, apply for a trademark, then you could come along and register the keyword in .pro before my trademark gets registered.

I don't think the trademark registrant would file a UDRP claim because you are promoting their product. I argued this logic on another thread when somebody jumped up and down about a software trademark.

However, I think when you have a keyword that's singular and non-generic rather than a combination of a trademark and another generic word, you are more likely to have a problem with the trademark registrant, especially if they already own the .com, .net, and .org.

Plus with a non-generic trademarked .pro, you could lose it straight away for infringement if Joomla! complained to the RegistryPro or Encirca.

I raised the point about the Joomla! trademark because you said you wouldn't register alot of the .pros people on this thread were regging. I think generic .pro keywords are a safer bet than trademarks.

 

[MasterGuru]

I guess you have to check if names actually change hands following a Sedo auction to verify a sale. The majority do, only a few don't.

Andrew, whould you be so kind to recommend service to check for trademarks?

Thanks

 

[akcampbell]

uspto.gov for US trademarks. http://oami.europa.eu/ows/rw/pages/index.en.do for eu trademarks and http://www.ipo.gov.uk/tm.htm for UK trademarks. It's free to search.

 

[mwzd]

No, the filing date is the date that matters.

Could you share some references to this? I'd be interested in learning about such instances.

I don't think the trademark registrant would file a UDRP claim because you are promoting their product. I argued this logic on another thread when somebody jumped up and down about a software trademark.

Then we're on the same page.

Plus with a non-generic trademarked .pro, you could lose it straight away for infringement if complained to the RegistryPro or Encirca.

Can you quote some specific instances about this too please?

I raised the point about the Joomla! trademark because you said you wouldn't register alot of the .pros people on this thread were regging. I think generic .pro keywords are a safer bet than trademarks.

I agree in general about your take on tms, but a service / offering that enhances an open source tm is hardly an 'infringement'. If that were true tens of thousands of sites and their owners would be at risk.

Plus in this particular case there were explicit instructions issued, including a special period, to allow community members to do just that, register domains with the word Joomla in it.

I hope your appreciate the difference when compared to any other tm.

 

[akcampbell]

http://www.adrforum.com/domains/decisions/341272.htm

If you type in Control F and "dating back to the trademark filing date", you will see the relevant paragraph.

http://domains.adrforum.com/domains/decisions/864072.htm

Type in "trademark filing date" to get to the decision.

There was an instance, towards the end of 2007 when somebody had a go at registering obvious trademarked .pros and they all got cancelled by Encirca. I was new to .pro domains at this point but I saw them go through on Motion.pro and then disappear from the WHOIS.

It was the same guy who tried to register the lot. I remember thinking he was crazy because there were brilliant generic keywords dropping. Maybe, somebody on this thread remembers some of the domains. I think two of them were Sony.pro and and Mercedes.pro. Interestingly, these have both been squatted on again through different registrars since the .pro relaunch.

 

[mjs]

Actually, I have been registering .pro from about 2 years ago... I own some premium ones, like Yoga.pro or Tarot.pro. In fact, I sold a .pro for $7000 last week on a private sale... :wave:

Terol,

If you had informed us that you had turned over a first tier domain, like poker.pro, for 7k, I might thank you for the info and invite you to refrain from additional communications. But, assuming your sale not to be of this case, and otherwise verifiable in accord with proof requirements of widely read, reliable media--------DNJournal, foremost-------, proper reporting of your sale is of critical value (far exceeding your 7k in proceeds) to all holding stakes in the .PRO market, including you. As the unusually poor results of Sedo's recent auction of premuim .Mobi domains suggests, domain markets enjoy only limited immunity from the effects of volatility in more traditional world investment markets. It follows, and numbers bear out, that .Pro secondary markets will, absent pronounced improvements in the latter, face highly dampened results. Such softening comes at a critical phase in the life of .PRO, where the extension is otherwise enjoying soaring retail demand and attention levels, decreased retail pricing levels, more registrars, and record expansion and diversification of the pool of potential .PRO owners. These all stand in stark contrast to the extension's recent poor showing in the secondary market. Unless and until the secondary market appears to turn up results, .PRO risks apathy to bashing, and all points in between. Imagine taking up for .PRO's right to exist among .com, .net, and .org, today, contrasted by a lesser tomorrow, where extension PR is necessarily called to defend against comparisons with the falling fortunes of .Biz, and/or the relevance of .NAME.

I beg you to perfect your sale by facilitating its publishing on DNJournal. You might wish to consult with Andrew Campbell, who recently caused DNJournal to publicize his purchase of a lesser priced domain. Through either or in combination, secure the very minimum necessary to prove and bare the sale. With this information in hand, approach your buyer. Re-contact the DNJournal again, if necessary. Keep going until success is in hand.

Finally, upon your successful reporting of the sale, I pledge to credit your NP account with 100 NP$s. Perhaps, others within the .PRO community, might be inclined to pledge likewise, and/or in the manner that they see fit. Thanks for your time and consideration.

Mike :kickass:

 

[WordWalker]

I am not a patent or trademark attorney and this information is not intended as legal advice, but it summarizes my approach to trademarks and domain names.

_________________________________________________

GENERAL RULE:

Any domain name registered that is intended to benefit from and/or derives its strength, value or desirability from a third party's protected mark (registered or otherwise) could lead to legal problems if the domain name registered is similar or identical to that third party's protected mark.

In other words, with few exceptions, if you are registering a domain name that meets the description above in order to ride the coattails of popularity generated by the investment, hard work and efforts of another party– DON’T!
_________________________________________________


Even generic domain name registrations can cause legal problems. Although registered trademark status is not generally extended by the USPTO* to generic descriptive names, the same generic word or term can be registered as a trademark for a product or service for which it is not generically descriptive.

Example:

“LAGER” as an exclusive trademark for a malt beverage product: USPTO registration unlikely.

“LAGER” as an exclusive trademark for bicycles and structural parts and fittings: USPTO registration granted reg. no. 3393468.

For these reasons, I include the following language as a disclaimer in any sale of generic domain names:

DISCLAIMER: A generic or descriptive domain name that does not infringe on the rights of a third party may potentially do so if the Buyer and/or End User subsequently uses the domain name for a specific class of goods or services in which a third party had previously acquired trademark protection for a similar or identical name. Seller specifically disclaims any and all liability in the event of such subsequent domain name use by Buyer and/or End User. For issues or concerns relating to domain name usage subsequent to sale, Buyer and/or End User should first seek the advice of a trademark attorney before entering into this or any domain name purchase transaction.

So even if you register a generic domain name, if your intent is to benefit from the efforts of a third party that uses the generic name as a trademark in a generically non-descriptive manner, you run the risk of legal action. In addition, there are some trademarks that are so famous that use of these particular marks for any class of goods or services will result in a claim of infringement.

Last comment: If you believe a trademark holder would have no problem with you incorporating a protected mark into your domain name, there is no need for guesswork. Request written authorization from the trademark holder for your stated use. Without written authorization, it's probably not a good idea.

This posting is not, in any way, intended to be a comprehensive or exhaustive treatment of domain and trademark law. If in doubt about domain and trademark legal issues, contact a trademark attorney.

*(United States Patent & Trademark Office – uspto.gov)

 

[mwzd]

Last comment: If you believe a trademark holder would have no problem with you incorporating a protected mark into your domain name, there is no need for guesswork. Request written authorization from the trademark holder for your stated use. Without written authorization, it's probably not a good idea.

Exactly correct, in this case specifically, the tm holder had given blanket permission, in writing (via email), to all its members to register said names.

Pretty pointless re-hashing this as every person seems to have an opinion without really reading what has been written earlier on the same.

Anyway, the reason I say people should think about domains they register - For example I just took tees.pro - ironic that such a valuable keyword was passed over while domains with fruit names and bodily functions are being registered for this tld.

I've also created a short list of available .pros in case anyone is interested, I wouldn't register any of the third set, but once you see the list you realise what I'm saying -
fungames.pro
walkers.pro
mutton.pro
creditcare.pro
newlyweds.pro
sailboat.pro
glory.pro
garagesales.pro
skyport.pro
nudetube.pro
movierentals.pro
jake.pro

loseweight.pro
essays.pro
javagames.pro
hairy.pro
onlinetraining.pro
antiaging.pro
gags.pro
dvdr.pro
cabletv.pro
hitch.pro
scales.pro
buysongs.pro
swords.pro
housewives.pro
babytoys.pro
taxhelp.pro
ustravel.pro
caribbeancruise.pro
arcadegames.pro
novel.pro
gout.pro
patch.pro
londonhotels.pro
modems.pro
discountsoftware.pro
chest.pro
motorbikes.pro
marble.pro
valves.pro
cruiselines.pro
double.pro
snowboards.pro
kong.pro
timer.pro
rules.pro

Don't register these - they are just for information -
dvdplayers.pro
cdduplication.pro
blankets.pro
pillows.pro
printercartridge.pro
seniordating.pro
spysoftware.pro
findadate.pro
pipes.pro
hairreplacement.pro
sunlesstanning.pro
pillow.pro
weightlosspills.pro
freegamesonline.pro
campgrounds.pro
churches.pro
blanket.pro
blondes.pro
hgtv.pro
frogs.pro
graduateschools.pro
popupblocker.pro
rubberstamps.pro
golfgifts.pro
weddingaccessories.pro
comingsoon.pro
videocards.pro
designerclothes.pro
collegefootball.pro
computersystem.pro
redheads.pro
gates.pro
civilwar.pro
datingadvice.pro
onlinelearning.pro
arabicmusic.pro
split.pro
brothers.pro
snoring.pro
conferencecalling.pro
ribbons.pro
teenmodels.pro
elephant.pro
castle.pro
depressiontreatment.pro
antioxidant.pro
domination.pro
monica.pro
freegamedownloads.pro
being.pro

 

[Terrains]

Tees.pro is a good pick-up, saw that on motion.pro earlier this morning.

 

[akcampbell]

ironic that such a valuable keyword was passed over while domains with fruit names and bodily functions are being registered for this tld.

In defense of fruit.pros, I did a search of the UK trademark database and here are how the .pro fruits regged on this thread compare in terms of trademarks registered to "tees";

Mango - 10 trademarks
Peach - 10 trademarks
Banana - 7 trademarks
Tees - 1 trademark

In the US trademark database;

Mango - 50 trademarks
Tees - 6 trademarks

Here are some .com reg dates

Tees.com - September 1999

Vs

Apple.com - February 1987 (64th .com registered)
Orange.com - December 1993
Blackberry.com - January 1995
Plum.com - April 1995
Mango.com - April 1997
Grape.com - June 1997

Two of the biggest companies in the world are fruits, Apple and Orange. One of the most recogniseable products is a Blackberry.

.pro supports a stellar range of keywords from the obvious "professional" words like Chef.pro. Training.pro, and Golf.pro through to sweet sounding "brandables" like Peach.pro and Mango.pro.

.pro transcends the underlying meaning of it's extension in the same way .com does. You can put any keyword in front of .pro and it will sound convincing and credible.

 

[Terrains]

Wish I could rep you again, but I guess I have to spread it around.

 

[mwzd]

Tees.com - $252,500

Vs

Apple.com - ?
Orange.com - ?
Blackberry.com - ?
Plum.com - plums.com $26,000
Mango.com - ?
Grape.com - ?

It has to do with compatibility to the medium, not to mention the TLD, much more than brand-ability.

I like tees, i'll take my chances on it, you're welcome to your fruits :D

 

[akcampbell]

If Apple.com and Orange.com were for sale as domains they would sell for ten times the price of Tees.com. Tees has no particular link to professional or pro either backwards or forwards. Here's the stats for Google uniques;

"Professional tees" - 5,190
"Tees professional" - 860
"Tees pro" - 6,650
"pro Tees" - 5,550

Compare that to something like Studio.pro

"Professional Studio" - 540,000
"Studio Professional" - 606,000
"Studio Pro" - 3,410,000
"Pro Studio" - 748,000

How about the number of Google indexed pages for the keyword at the end of a .com;

Tees.com - 67,700
Studio.com - 1,170,000

or at the beginning in Google indexed URL's;

www.tees - 41,000
www.studio - 1,290,000

Here are some Estibot valuations;

Orange.com $860,000
Apple.com $7.9m
Tees.com $300,000

Here are some DomainScore.com Scores;

Apple.com 788
Orange.com 780
Tees.com 651

mwzd, you're a Mod and a .pro domain registrant, if we can't count on you to be gracious about what other people are regging, who can we count on?! I understand the logic for regging Tees.pro, it's a solid 4 letter reg backed by a nice .com sale, I'm just playing Devil's advocate to underline the fact that there are many different angles to exploit with .pro.

 

[InvisionTech]

While you guys get your fruits and tees in order, I picked up some more yesterday:

FlatPanel.pro (flatscreen.pro was available until few days ago)
Cleaners.pro

 

[Terrains]

Crazy that 80% of the names I had on a list a couple of weeks ago are now regged.

Just picked up Salvia.Pro

 

[Kuli]

Hi Andrew,

thank you so much for your comments! You just made my day!

@mwzd, I really wondered what should be so bad about fruit names against your tees.pro. To be honest, I didn't know this word before; I'm not a native english speaker, and I had to look it up in my dictionary. I first thought it would be something like "tea". And I doubt that there are many people in the non-english world that do know what a "tee" is. Most technical terms like printer, modem, or memory stick are well-known, but not tee.

This, however, doesn't mean say very much about the value of tees.pro. Maybe it's five times more worth than peach.pro or mango.pro, then I'll share your happiness! If you think that banana.pro is completely worthless and the lousiest domain you've ever seen, then it's okay. I asked for a honest opinion. I just don't understand why you're making fun of the fact that tees.pro still was available.

And now to something completely different...

If you ever thought that it would be impossible to catch valuable dropped .pro domains nowadays, here's the proof of the contrary! These are the names I just snapped today:
pornos.pro
cycles.pro
trades.pro
buying.pro
selling.pro

Phew, I was lucky! :blink:

 

[zuriko]

Hi Andrew,

thank you so much for your comments! You just made my day!

@mwzd, I really wondered what should be so bad about fruit names against your tees.pro. To be honest, I didn't know this word before; I'm not a native english speaker, and I had to look it up in my dictionary. I first thought it would be something like "tea". And I doubt that there are many people in the non-english world that do know what a "tee" is. Most technical terms like printer, modem, or memory stick are well-known, but not tee.

This, however, doesn't mean say very much about the value of tees.pro. Maybe it's five times more worth than peach.pro or mango.pro, then I'll share your happiness! If you think that banana.pro is completely worthless and the lousiest domain you've ever seen, then it's okay. I asked for a honest opinion. I just don't understand why you're making fun of the fact that tees.pro still was available.

And now to something completely different...

If you ever thought that it would be impossible to catch valuable dropped .pro domains nowadays, here's the proof of the contrary! These are the names I just snapped today:
pornos.pro
cycles.pro
trades.pro
buying.pro
selling.pro

Phew, I was lucky! :blink:

Hi Kuli!
I droped this 5 domains and maybe I was wrong!))
Good luck with this names and hope you will be more successful then me!