The LLLL.com sales and discussion thread

[italiandragon]

Hello, I think it would be pretty useful to keep track of all LLLL.com sales , even the little ones under $100 so that , pretty soon , when the available LLLL.com will be finished , we`ll have a better idea on market prices.

It is important that these sales are confirmed. So before to post, make sure payment went OK.

I will start with todays` Sedo confirmed sales:

FISE.com 2,700 Euros
TSRT.com US $760
VEUP.com US $1,700


Also, I found interesting to see this average LLLL, getting bids up to $51 and reserve not me. It says it all.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...110154111735_W0QQ_trksidZm37QQfromZR40QQfviZ1

 

[Andrei P.]

Today @NameJet
schs.com 2550$
bkdn.com 90$
evmo.com 801$
zict.com 79$
hdbt.com 162$
gznn.com 71$

 

[-REECE-]

What you've mentioned (reg fee erosion) is what anyone investing in the lower quality LLLL.coms needs to be mindful of. Taking your $4 price Snoop and factoring the $1.33 erosion to the $2 price in October, the low end LLLL.coms have so far outpaced erosion.

Now whether that will continue is anyone's guess, however if they continue to appreciate at the rate they have been ($1 or so a month) since October, they will cover the renewal fee and have a fair bit left over at the end of the day. Gains averaged over a year above $0.67 per month will turn a profit for the owner, anything under, a loss.

The minimum going from $3 to $4 doesn't mean much, the reg fee erosion over those 2 months is $1.33. So it is just further losses.

As I have said for a while the main issue facing the low quality names now is the reg fee value falling. Whether they trade at $1 or $4 isn't that important.

 

[mibworld]

The fact is that the so called reg fee erosion would be meaningful for a relatively small amount of domains. Only a few thousands of antipremiums and one-letter premiums, sold in the last months previous to the buyout would sell anywhere close to the minimum price. The vast majority of names (both in terms of value and of total numbers) would sell quite above that price.

If we check the last few tens or even the last hundreds of sales reported here from different venues like eBay and TDNAM, only a relatively small number is near the minimum price. Furthermore, most domainers have a mix of names, and very few are “specialized” in the low end of this market.

A 30% increase in the minimum price may or may not absorb the reg fees, but it for sure reflects an increase in all the other segments of the market (the really important ones). For a double or triple premium domain, that increase may well amount to $10, $20 or more in the average price. For a quad premium or other high value LLLL name, that increase would be even higher.

So, IMHO the problem of the reg fee erosion is mostly a theoretical one. It is important mainly for the professional deniers that use it as an excuse to deny the improvement in the market experienced in the last months.

What you've mentioned (reg fee erosion) is what anyone investing in the lower quality LLLL.coms needs to be mindful of. Taking your $4 price Snoop and factoring the $1.33 erosion to the $2 price in October, the low end LLLL.coms have so far outpaced erosion.

Now whether that will continue is anyone's guess, however if they continue to appreciate at the rate they have been ($1 or so a month) since October, they will cover the renewal fee and have a fair bit left over at the end of the day. Gains averaged over a year above $0.67 per month will turn a profit for the owner, anything under, a loss.

 

[-REECE-]

Yes, you're right Carlos. All the domains registered between July 2007 and November 2007, only amounted to about 5-6% of LLLL.coms registered. The roughly $8 renewal fee will have a smaller and smaller effect depending on how valuable the domain is. For quad premiums, rare LLLL.coms, stronger pronounceables, and even stronger triple premiums, the regfee is a negligible cost of ownership.

The fact is that the so called reg fee erosion would be meaningful for a relatively small amount of domains. Only a few thousands of antipremiums and one-letter premiums, sold in the last months previous to the buyout would sell anywhere close to the minimum price. The vast majority of names (both in terms of value and of total numbers) would sell quite above that price.

If we check the last few tens or even the last hundreds of sales reported here from different venues like eBay and TDNAM, only a relatively small number is near the minimum price. Furthermore, most domainers have a mix of names, and very few are “specialized” in the low end of this market.

A 30% increase in the minimum price may or may not absorb the reg fees, but it for sure reflects an increase in all the other segments of the market (the really important ones). For a double or triple premium domain, that increase may well amount to $10, $20 or more in the average price. For a quad premium or other high value LLLL name, that increase would be even higher.

 

[snoop]

The fact is that the so called reg fee erosion would be meaningful for a relatively small amount of domains. Only a few thousands of antipremiums and one-letter premiums, sold in the last months previous to the buyout would sell anywhere close to the minimum price. The vast majority of names (both in terms of value and of total numbers) would sell quite above that price.

If we check the last few tens or even the last hundreds of sales reported here from different venues like eBay and TDNAM, only a relatively small number is near the minimum price. Furthermore, most domainers have a mix of names, and very few are “specialized” in the low end of this market.

The vast majority of low quality LLLL.com now have a years registration on them so I don't really agree. The names recently renewed selling for $10-$15 is just as bad as the $2-$3 names of the past, the loss to the seller is much the same.

For a quad premium or other high value LLLL name, that increase would be even higher.

If you look up in this thread you'll see quite a few people seem to think the quad premium names are falling in value (me included).

So, IMHO the problem of the reg fee erosion is mostly a theoretical one. It is important mainly for the professional deniers that use it as an excuse to deny the improvement in the market experienced in the last months.

It is a real cost I'm afraid, most of the LLLL.com's helf by domainers are low quality examples.

 

[shreder]

I have beeen very negative on the LLL.com market for a long time so it won't be saying much. When the price was $7000 minimum I told people here I thought the price was going to halve. I sold most of my stock but not all.

Snoop, is there a domain market which you are not negative about?
Why are you still a domainer though you are negative about almost every possible niche there is...

 

[snoop]

Snoop, is there a domain market which you are not negative about?

Not really, I've been pretty negative about the market since the end of last year. About the only thing I would say is buy names are truly below market value (which is very unlikely for auction sales) or if you can get revenue names on better multiples than other investments.

Why are you still a domainer though you are negative about almost every possible niche there is...

Being in an industry doesn't mean you have to be positive about it all the time. Some people are positive about this industry all the time though, obviously those people would have paid a very high price for that optimism this year.

 

[Semtex]

Being in an industry doesn't mean you have to be positive about it all the time.

This quote should read, "Being in an industry doesn't mean you have to say one positive thing about it. I buy and sell domains to just lose money and to irritate other people."

 

[snoop]

This quote should read, "Being in an industry doesn't mean you have to say one positive thing about it. I buy and sell domains to just lose money and to irritate other people."

That is what you'd like me to be saying.

 

[Spade]

Frankly I find snoops commentary amusing. Some of it I agree with it, some of it I do not. However, the idea of a forum is the discussion of ideas, regardless of their popularity.

 

[Nem0]

Snoop, is there a domain market which you are not negative about?
Why are you still a domainer though you are negative about almost every possible niche there is...

Because he is seriously unbalanced.

All LLLL.com sales (eBay) today:

QRFW $16.99
VYSW $11.08
GVLY $25.25
KYZT $37.99
VDGY $9.50
VTBY $12.50

With those two bottom sales, the buyer failed to put any form of "LLLL" in the title. Some will see the logic in doing this while others, (err, one 'other') will call it an excuse. Regardless, it is a must-have variable or the sale means squat since 99% of other LLLL sales have that in the title.

Not sure what that kyzt was about!




+

 

[abcproductions]

Not sure what that kyzt was about!

kyzt can be pronounced like kissed so maybe that was it. i have kizt so that's what came to mind.

 

[accent]

In a way Snoop is saying the obvious - the world economy is in recession, therefore domain prices are going to fall. Domainers live in the economy, a certain percentage will hit rough water and will have to sell assets (and stop buying).

Not really rocket science, but a lot of us seem to think the domain market can rise independent of the outside world. T'aint gonna happen.

Granted, the internet continues to grow. I heard that online Christmas sales are expected to rise 8% this year over last (but be divided among more merchants, no doubt). So long term we are in a great place.

For those who can, this is a good time to buy. The economy follows the stock market by about six months, so I have heard. The stock market hit bottom in September, but has yet to move back up very much. By that metric we should see some more declines, leveling off in the spring. But buying good names takes time, if you wait for the absolute bottom you will end up with three domains.

Yeah, I'll never have a $9000 loss either. Indeed to contradict Snoop's assertion, I do not have many losses in this market at all. My only losses are some Mobis I am letting go - to replace with much better .Mobis.

These are times of opportunity for long term investors. For my three years of domaining I have heard the flippers bragging of their victories. Perhaps the turtle will win after all.

 

[mwzd]

Frankly I find snoops commentary amusing. Some of it I agree with it, some of it I do not. However, the idea of a forum is the discussion of ideas, regardless of their popularity.

:tu: :tu: :tu:

Snoop rocks

I'm not able to buy any 'bargains' in this market either. Domains I like obviously others like too and they end up in the $180+ range, which i'd rather not spend atm.

 

[abcproductions]

The stock market hit bottom in September

the stockmarket hasn't seen a bottom, imo. i say another 15-20% drop will happen within the next six months.

 

[-AR-]

:tu: :tu: :tu:

Snoop rocks

I'm not able to buy any 'bargains' in this market either. Domains I like obviously others like too and they end up in the $180+ range, which i'd rather not spend atm.

As much as I dont like his constant negativity, it does make me look at the LLLL.com in a different prospective, which isnt really bad.

the stockmarket hasn't seen a bottom, imo. i say another 15-20% drop will happen within the next six months.

I think you are right here. I think January will be the worse month of 2009 for the world economy.

 

[snoop]

For my three years of domaining I have heard the flippers bragging of their victories. Perhaps the turtle will win after all.

Yeah those days are largely gone.

 

[ddchan]

the stockmarket hasn't seen a bottom, imo. i say another 15-20% drop will happen within the next six months.

I tend to agree to this, and it probably affects all assets prices in the coming months.
However this is also the reason why you can shop around for good deals,
instead of having to bid against 100 people for a good name.

So if you believe in the llll.com market in the longer run and have spare cash to hold, it may be a good time to buy. BUt not good for looking for quick flip profit.

To me Snoop is basically talking about the same thing.
A downturn in economy which means you should budget at least one year of reg to your total cost, especially for lower premium names.

 

[Chef Patrick]

llll help

what do you guys think DNVB.com is worth?

 

[Soofi]

llll help

ok i just posted an article to my blog, basically the question in hand is the value of DNVB.com. if you want to read more feel free to visit my site through my signature, if not, what is your opinion/value on DNVB.com?

Only thing I could find was DNVB: DENVER BANKSHARES INC
Triple premium, and nothing else probably around low to mid $xx
:imho:

 

[mwzd]

Got OFYP.COM at tdnam for $45 including renewal.

Has to be the bargain of the season :D

:tu:

 

[Soofi]

Got OFYP.COM at tdnam for $45 including renewal.

Has to be the bargain of the season :D

:tu:

samit, whats so special about OFYP?

 

[mwzd]

1. yp = yellow pages

2. triple premium with strong acro > some quads imo

3. I like it :D

 

[Soofi]

oh how about OFYP - OF YELLOW PAGES :gn: :lol:

 

[mwzd]

oh how about OFYP - OF YELLOW PAGES :gn: :lol:

OF YELLOW PAGES :gn: :lol:

Exactly right.

You'll learn as you grow older :D