discuss THE DOWNFALL OF DOMAINING?

[artstar]

Has the influx of 400+ tlds contributed to the downfall of domaining?

have you found the industry take a dramatic drop in profits and sales?

Imo this industry is about to get a major tune up and its not in a good way.

millions of domains will be worthless or already are

drops will exceed any dropped stats in the past

millions of $ will/has been lost by domainers to registrars.

 

[Wittybliss.com]

about 1 month ago, someone inquired through godaddy if I want to sell a domain. Later I realized they are a Christian church and the name they showed interest was actually under their ownership.

I just gave the name to them for free. I am not a rich person. But I know what can make me happy. I love God.

You have a great mentality my brother, I love God too. Givers are always on the top in this world. Your action is proof of the love of God in your heart. Very inspiring!
I do say, as far as it is done with love and faith because of God, you will never loose your reward. It is coming back to you for sure in Jesus name.

 

[frank-germany]

if you love your domains and you love god

what does your wife say???

 

[Magicpig2]

I've definitely noticed a decline in inquiries, offers and sales over the last two years. Personally, I think potential end users are now thinking twice before paying big bucks for a .com, unlike before when it was literally the only way to go.

 

[TheWatcher]

If they choose the other extension. That's a big mistake to start a business and they will learn the hard way.

 

[Silentptnr]

My only thoughts are:

1. There are many different possible reasons for fluctuations in personal domain sales. Quality and quantity of domains, mobile usage, etc.

2. Domains remain a forward-thinking investment with highest gains being long term.

3. Seems to me that the new gTLD's have perhaps created a "2nd Generation" of domain investors similar to the 1st Generation of domain investors that built their portfolios years ago and are now reaping the profits.

4. I imagine many larger investors with thousands of domains seem to be doing very well in recent times. Actually probably better than ever before.

I invest in domains as investments and for fun. My personal belief is that domain names will continue to increase in value generally.

 

[vicky4712]

Has the influx of 400+ tlds contributed to the downfall of domaining?

have you found the industry take a dramatic drop in profits and sales?

Imo this industry is about to get a major tune up and its not in a good way.

millions of domains will be worthless or already are

drops will exceed any dropped stats in the past

millions of $ will/has been lost by domainers to registrars.

I tend to agree to what you say from my own experience.The fact is there're huge number of domains for sale in aftermarket as compared to the total end users/investors who would actually buy your domain for a decent price..And even these handful of people think 10 times when putting their money to acquire a domain.Arrival of new Tlds has made it more difficult to sell a domain at your desired price.There're lot of good keyword domains in other extensions other than .com which're even available for hand reg fee.People prefer such domains for a hand reg fee instead of paying huge or decent bucks for a premium .com or other domain ext.Moreover like Stocks or Real estate or mutual fund you can't liquid a domain name since its valuation is based on untrusted entities. Its extremely difficult to sell a domain since there're only a fraction of percentage of actual takers as compared to so many countless number of domains up for sale in aftermarket.Selling a domain for million or close to that is like winning a lottery.

 

[tiawalling]

Domaining is an investment. Some may gain, some may lose. The new gtlds may succeed or only .com will remain king till the end. So its a risk every domainer takes.

Nobody knows what the future holds so invest in what you believe. If it works out, good for you, if it don't ,you got nobody to blame but yourself.
Learn, adapt and improvise.
Just my two cents. Cheers

 

[19domain]

Whatever the domain extensions are, the most important thing is the brandibility. The brand is created by person, visionary and creative persons can build better brand, and of course more powerful in the brand. As a seller, you should connect to them, wait for them, to come.

cannot agree more about the saying on "brandability".

 

[namezest]

Today many people are using facebook pages, twitter, free blogs, wix, weebly.
All of these services are free you dont even need a domain name or even a computer you can just use your phone. Did anyone else factor those in?

 

[JayJay]

Today many people are using facebook pages, twitter, free blogs, wix, weebly.
All of these services are free you dont even need a domain name or even a computer you can just use your phone. Did anyone else factor those in?

Most serious domainers (not hand reg collectors) with quality names are targetting mid to large cap corps that would never run their biz strictly off social media or free web dev services. A domain will be necessary for quite a few more years, imho.

 

[Casey L]

about 1 month ago, someone inquired through godaddy if I want to sell a domain. Later I realized they are a Christian church and the name they showed interest was actually under their ownership.

I just gave the name to them for free. I am not a rich person. But I know what can make me happy. I love God.

That's very good of you. Not many people like that in our business.

 

[namezest]

Most serious domainers (not hand reg collectors) with quality names are targetting mid to large cap corps that would never run their biz strictly off social media or free web dev services. A domain will be necessary for quite a few more years, imho.

I wasn't arguing as you mentioned regarding people investing in domains, I was merely giving my opinion on the topic of this thread. However your point as I see it is another reason for this thread. It is also the reason that UDRP's are being filed. As I see it the only serious domain investors are firstly the registries followed by the registrars who target the people hoping to get rich quick by really cyber squatting, if you do not develop a domain you risk losing it no matter what your investment is. Serious investors develop their domains don't they?

 

[DnEbook]

Some folk are still discovering domains, once they realise the benefit they want one for their business. Can't see why this would change, many worthless names on the market for years now. For me while I see ads on Tv for Hotels.Com I am reminded of how good a domain is for business

 

[Fancy.domains]

If you, like a Domain King™, is holding on to a portfolio with crazy good .COMs, you will just have to relax in your yacht waiting for these six and seven-figure offers to come.

But if you're a small time player like me, which average sales are in the mid or high three-figure category, you'll have to fail, learn, fail, learn and at the same time build a good portfolio with names that actually people might buy. And sure, there are millions of these names out there. The problem is that most of them are already taken. :P

If you work hard and rely on data and sales trends, more than your own wishes, then you still can make decent money from domaining. Maybe not become a dollar millionaire, but at least put food on the table and pay the bills.

I am sure that many will disagree, but I strongly believe that hard work is a much, much, much more important factor than luck in domaining.


Genius is one percent inspiration, ninety nine percent perspiration

Thomas Edison

 

[Shea]

No matter how many new cars come out Lamborghini's and Ferrari are still hot.
Ferrari is to cars as .com is to gTLD.
No matter how many new gTLD come out Lamborghinis are still desired.
Now if you were a business would you want to be found at .Ferrari or .Kia?
New gTLD may even increase the value and prestige of the .com.
What do you think, fair comparison?

 

[slimjim270]

Domaining sort of reminds me of coin collecting.

Remember the 1955 (double die) U.S. Penny?

Well, 100+ years of pennies being circulating in the U.S. and the current value of (most) pennies are still.... just a penny.

But... that one "magical" 1955 (double die) penny remains collectible... 30 years ago you could buy a '55 DD for $50... today a good quality one is $500+.. the price of low circulation coins continue to rise... the rest just gain weight in your pocket.

All these new TLD's are just newly minted coins...

-Jim

 

[joro001]

I hear both sides of the discussion but in truth i'm siding for the doom and gloom for many reasons.

1. If you buy domains just to sit and hold (i'm referring to generic premiums) you run serious risks of UDRP and losing the domain. It is highly time consuming and expensive to defend and panels have time again made crazy decisions so there's no guarantee you will keep the name. Right now circus.com has a UDRP against it I mean come on lol.

2. Competition is fierce and intense at auction and getting worse all the time. Average names are going for serious 4 figures + at auction which makes margins much harder to achieve as most end users won't pay what you're looking for anymore i.e. 5 figures +.

3. New GTLD's keep on coming out by the day and are having an impact on end user sales of good .coms. Companies have a ton of options now so they do not need to buy your 2/3 word .com anymore unless it's a category killer. I expect this trend to get worse as more extensions keep on coming.

4. Regulations may change to make domaining harder one day. Not saying it will but it's possible. just look at China and how they have cracked down to see what is possible.

5. End user sales/inquiries have dried up a lot, ask almost anyone and they will say they are experiencing the same thing. Someone reported a 5 figure sale recently which is good to see is still happening but it's becoming rarer to see these sort of big sales IMO.

6. Some of the biggest players have retired/semi retired and I do not for a second believe it is coincidence. I am sure they can see the writing on the wall and have got out whilst the going is still reasonably good.

If you disagree power to you but no way would I do this full time for any extended period.
All the best.

 

[Kate]

1. If you buy domains just to sit and hold (i'm referring to generic premiums) you run serious risks of UDRP and losing the domain.

Then don't give predators the ammo to kill you. UDRPs are normally lost for good reasons.

2. Competition is fierce and intense at auction and getting worse all the time. Average names are going for serious 4 figures + at auction which makes margins much harder to achieve as most end users won't pay what you're looking for anymore i.e. 5 figures +.

Indeed, but:

• some good names are still slipping through the cracks
• you have to diversify sources, for example you can buy straight from long-time domain holders. Do your research, move your a$$ and don't follow the crowd

3. New GTLD's keep on coming out by the day and are having an impact on end user sales of good .coms. Companies have a ton of options now so they do not need to buy your 2/3 word .com anymore unless it's a category killer. I expect this trend to get worse as more extensions keep on coming.

As always, quality wins. But if you own domains in poor extensions like .info .biz then yes they are diluted and their value may have decreased.
I am somewhat skeptical about the impact of new extensions on domain sales, because the reported sales remains steady while the new extensions are not getting much traction. .com is still the best selling TLD, and mature ccTLDs are hardly affected. At this point it's not like new extensions are mainstream and everybody is familiar with them. Not at all. Make money now, and worry later if need be.

However domainers buying those new extensions (aka fools gold) are causing their own demise. This could be where the downfall of domaining is happening. And they wonder why making sales is so difficult...

4. Regulations may change to make domaining harder one day. Not saying it will but it's possible. just look at China and how they have cracked down to see what is possible..

Almost any business has regulations and red tape. For example look at the registries aka the new domainers. Registries are subjects to plenty of regulations and stringent requirements, but it's still an ordinary business. Registries are professional, domainers are amateurs/hobbyists.

5. End user sales/inquiries have dried up a lot, ask almost anyone and they will say they are experiencing the same thing. Someone reported a 5 figure sale recently which is good to see is still happening but it's becoming rarer to see these sort of big sales IMO.

Really ? We are witnessing record sales, LL.com are changing hands for huge sums. Good names still command high prices. There is always demand for good names, even for less premium ones. If you are not making sales, you don't have the right inventory so do something about it.
Domainers are too complacent about the quality of their portfolios. If you own average domains, you should aim for end user-friendly prices, which is still a valid business model if you make sales often.

6. Some of the biggest players have retired/semi retired and I do not for a second believe it is coincidence. I am sure they can see the writing on the wall and have got out whilst the going is still reasonably good.

Who do you have in mind other than Berkens who has his own reasons (and is not fully retired) ?

 

[namezest]

I have to agree with above statement by @joro001 the way things are going it's a matter of time before the only people who should hold domains are developers or individuals/business for the purpose of being used for their business and not merely parked or posted on a secondary market in order to make a profit. This makes it more difficult for people to find the right domain. Lets say you have a great idea and the name you wanted is being held by a person investing in domains and they want a fortune for it. Now lets say it is not being used. You're gonna get sued plain and simple. Probably better to forward your domains to other domains that are in use.

 

[wormfood]

I have to agree with above statement by @joro001 the way things are going it's a matter of time before the only people who should hold domains are developers or individuals/business for the purpose of being used for their business and not merely parked or posted on a secondary market in order to make a profit. This makes it more difficult for people to find the right domain. Lets say you have a great idea and the name you wanted is being held by a person investing in domains and they want a fortune for it. Now lets say it is not being used. You're gonna get sued plain and simple.

Why would you get sued?

Also.. Eventually, the people listing domains for truly outrageous prices will be forced to give in at a lower price or drop the domains because they will not sell any. The lack of demand will naturally solve the problem.

 

[joro001]

Then don't give predators the ammo to kill you. UDRPs are normally lost for good reasons.

Indeed, but:

• some good names are still slipping through the cracks
• you have to diversify sources, for example you can buy straight from long-time domain holders. Do your research, move your a$$ and don't follow the crowd

As always, quality wins. But if you own domains in poor extensions like .info .biz then yes they are diluted and their value may have decreased.
I am somewhat skeptical about the impact of new extensions on domain sales, because the reported sales remains steady while the new extensions are not getting much traction. .com is still the best selling TLD, and mature ccTLDs are hardly affected. At this point it's not like new extensions are mainstream and everybody is familiar with them. Not at all. Make money now, and worry later if need be.

However domainers buying those new extensions (aka fools gold) are causing their own demise. This could be where the downfall of domaining is happening. And they wonder why making sales is so difficult...

Almost any business has regulations and red tape. For example look at the registries aka the new domainers. Registries are subjects to plenty of regulations and stringent requirements, but it's still an ordinary business. Registries are professional, domainers are amateurs/hobbyists.

Really ? We are witnessing record sales, LL.com are changing hands for huge sums. Good names still command high prices. There is always demand for good names, even for less premium ones. If you are not making sales, you don't have the right inventory so do something about it.
Domainers are too complacent about the quality of their portfolios. If you own average domains, you should aim for end user-friendly prices, which is still a valid business model if you make sales often.

Who do you have in mind other than Berkens who has his own reasons (and is not fully retired) ?

We are not going to agree, I don't see a point in replying to all your points one by one, my view is clear and you are welcome to differ. I am personally doing very well in domains part time and am thrilled with results short term but long term I see real concerns for the reasons stated above.

Each to their own.

 

[BrandChimp]

.COM is the dot less domain.

My company is BrandChimp, not BrandChimp dot agency.

Other than brandability, .COM pricing is fair and simple to understand

Registry premium domains at ridiculous pricing is a big WTF? Do you want your domains to be used by many????? Reduce your price and let us register and USE the names we want!

I have hand registered JeuxCloud and Jeux dot cloud is for sale by the registry at only $18,000.....
*Means Cloud Games in French.

Registries are CYBER SQUATTING
Simple, you can't register TradeMarkDomains but you can charge up to $25,000 for TradeMark.domains...... It SUCKS

.LongKeyword will die as people are looking for short and easy to type domains. ...Seriously bringing long gtld's to life in 2016 isn't smart as we are becoming lazy asses.

 

[BrandChimp]

Today many people are using facebook pages, twitter, free blogs, wix, weebly.
All of these services are free you dont even need a domain name or even a computer you can just use your phone. Did anyone else factor those in?

I know many people that are looking to "upgrade" their online image by owning a premium .com domains instead of a cutefreedomain.freesite.com or facebook/cute.freedomain

 

[domain12345]

Domaining is a skillful trade..and every trade has its tricks to succeed and flaws to fail... people in phase of early dot com grabbed the best possible online real estate and held on to it , had the funds to sustain and turn investments into $$$$$...

Most new tld high profile sales are registry sales...but the greed to succeed is costing domainers lots of money to invest without much sales..human nature and the hope to be a domain millionaire wont let domaining fall..but wipe out domainers who invested in wrong domains or ones who invested in the right domains but did not have renewal funds or could not patiently wait to turn them to gold.

 

[Frank.Schilling]

This is a fair question. I had similar worries. What will happen to my coms in the face of all these new names. how will it impact the industry. The short answer is - "Everything will work out and the business will grow."

I say: more names = more opportunity. If I exclude registry revenue this should still be one of our better sales years.. Not the best (unless the team pulls off a turnaround) but still good. Most of that sales revenue is in .com but a growing tranche (each day) is from new names which is "amazing" since 1. lots of people still don't know they exist and 2. lots of great names are available unregistered.

On the market side we are seeing lots of secondary market transactions go down on new GTLDs and will return to publishing a list of sales in the coming months. It's a large trove of deals going down across customer accounts at Uniregistry. Mostly Com and a bunch of new stuff

In the old days if you were a domainer with a portfolio of borderline pigeons-shit .com names (bottom percentile) you could shuffle along with the big dogs and roll like a domainer boss. That time is over and all these new names are separating the men from the boys. Nobody is going to imagine how great your average .com could be in the future and talk up your names or pay them attention when one word generics in new extensions are available unregistered. If you're the guy with that class of .com name you're going to feel a bit pissed and vulnerable. You lost some sparkle. The biggest dogs don't like it either because their "really" good names look less good when a viable new G stands next to it. That comment is going to have a bunch of folks spit back at me but it's the truth. GreatName.com doesn;t look that good to an outsider (non domainer) when great name.shop .link .web .club .online .world etc etc etc etc stand next to it. Anyone who says otherwise is a hater, a denier or just too close to their names. The world is absolutely changing. It's happening slowly right now but it will accelerate with the passage of time and as the 12 year olds today turn 20 in 8 years. MB selling his portfolio (which many of us valued at 100 million or more) for the low tens of millions and the value of the Marchex deal can't make the guys (including myself) holding vast swaths of premium names feel very good. We all lost some money there. My portfolio is not worth as much (wholesale) today because of new GTLDS. Retail sales prices are still holding up, but we are seeing lots of dictionary word sales in new GTLD's in the low thousands going down along side those now on the Uniregistry Market.

I say easy come, easy go.. You have to roll with it or retire and some are chosing the latter. To be fair, some of those retiring are plowing that new retirement money into new names. MB bought my.mom (one of the best) for 10k when we accidentally let it out. It's his, it has a low renewal and he's in the money IMO.

Where we are today is a flashpoint where those with average to low quality .com/net names are disillusioned by all the new stuff, while the chinese and new faces are flooding into the room with new money and think they never had it so good. They're right of course.. Today you have history, and guidebooks, and a university course (cyger) and tools and forums like this and lots of names to chose from. When I started there was none of that.

Some of the old timers are angry and freaked out - the newcomers are sweeping up, but some of the same sly foxes who took the good .com names back in the day are still participating (myself included). The game hasn't changed. You just need to get the best names. You can't hurry that. I built my portfolio over 15 years. It's a journey.. you can't hurry the curry.

Lastly and very important. Not everybody knows what they are doing in domaining.. that is, not everyone is good enough at this business to pick well, mine well, sell well - in a nutshell - not everyone is cut out for this business. Those who "can't" will hate on this business and blame the backdrop when they fail. That's a given. This change in tide and 400 new extensions (half of which shouldn't be bought) are going to show you who can and who can't. The only certainty is the names will get bought. I could stand here and shout STOP BUYING NAMES - DANGER!! and people will still buy them, the need, the hunger and the opportunity is just too great.

I was born broke and am blathering like this because I'm bored and have nothing to do 8 miles in the air, writing from my seat on N265QS as I fly from Houston to Canada. Every gallon of gas pushing this bird forward, bought and paid for with my own domains. Uniregistry? Funded with those names? The sales marketplace? Domains again. Stocks, real estate, my giraffe? All paid for by picking the right names. If I can do that in 10 years with no outside money or support, no debt, think what you can do with a whole world of new extensions if you're just prepared to take a prudent well thought out risk.

Good luck to all.