discuss THE DOWNFALL OF DOMAINING?

[artstar]

Has the influx of 400+ tlds contributed to the downfall of domaining?

have you found the industry take a dramatic drop in profits and sales?

Imo this industry is about to get a major tune up and its not in a good way.

millions of domains will be worthless or already are

drops will exceed any dropped stats in the past

millions of $ will/has been lost by domainers to registrars.

 

[Frank.Schilling]

This is a fair question. I had similar worries. What will happen to my coms in the face of all these new names. how will it impact the industry. The short answer is - "Everything will work out and the business will grow."

I say: more names = more opportunity. If I exclude registry revenue this should still be one of our better sales years.. Not the best (unless the team pulls off a turnaround) but still good. Most of that sales revenue is in .com but a growing tranche (each day) is from new names which is "amazing" since 1. lots of people still don't know they exist and 2. lots of great names are available unregistered.

On the market side we are seeing lots of secondary market transactions go down on new GTLDs and will return to publishing a list of sales in the coming months. It's a large trove of deals going down across customer accounts at Uniregistry. Mostly Com and a bunch of new stuff

In the old days if you were a domainer with a portfolio of borderline pigeons-shit .com names (bottom percentile) you could shuffle along with the big dogs and roll like a domainer boss. That time is over and all these new names are separating the men from the boys. Nobody is going to imagine how great your average .com could be in the future and talk up your names or pay them attention when one word generics in new extensions are available unregistered. If you're the guy with that class of .com name you're going to feel a bit pissed and vulnerable. You lost some sparkle. The biggest dogs don't like it either because their "really" good names look less good when a viable new G stands next to it. That comment is going to have a bunch of folks spit back at me but it's the truth. GreatName.com doesn;t look that good to an outsider (non domainer) when great name.shop .link .web .club .online .world etc etc etc etc stand next to it. Anyone who says otherwise is a hater, a denier or just too close to their names. The world is absolutely changing. It's happening slowly right now but it will accelerate with the passage of time and as the 12 year olds today turn 20 in 8 years. MB selling his portfolio (which many of us valued at 100 million or more) for the low tens of millions and the value of the Marchex deal can't make the guys (including myself) holding vast swaths of premium names feel very good. We all lost some money there. My portfolio is not worth as much (wholesale) today because of new GTLDS. Retail sales prices are still holding up, but we are seeing lots of dictionary word sales in new GTLD's in the low thousands going down along side those now on the Uniregistry Market.

I say easy come, easy go.. You have to roll with it or retire and some are chosing the latter. To be fair, some of those retiring are plowing that new retirement money into new names. MB bought my.mom (one of the best) for 10k when we accidentally let it out. It's his, it has a low renewal and he's in the money IMO.

Where we are today is a flashpoint where those with average to low quality .com/net names are disillusioned by all the new stuff, while the chinese and new faces are flooding into the room with new money and think they never had it so good. They're right of course.. Today you have history, and guidebooks, and a university course (cyger) and tools and forums like this and lots of names to chose from. When I started there was none of that.

Some of the old timers are angry and freaked out - the newcomers are sweeping up, but some of the same sly foxes who took the good .com names back in the day are still participating (myself included). The game hasn't changed. You just need to get the best names. You can't hurry that. I built my portfolio over 15 years. It's a journey.. you can't hurry the curry.

Lastly and very important. Not everybody knows what they are doing in domaining.. that is, not everyone is good enough at this business to pick well, mine well, sell well - in a nutshell - not everyone is cut out for this business. Those who "can't" will hate on this business and blame the backdrop when they fail. That's a given. This change in tide and 400 new extensions (half of which shouldn't be bought) are going to show you who can and who can't. The only certainty is the names will get bought. I could stand here and shout STOP BUYING NAMES - DANGER!! and people will still buy them, the need, the hunger and the opportunity is just too great.

I was born broke and am blathering like this because I'm bored and have nothing to do 8 miles in the air, writing from my seat on N265QS as I fly from Houston to Canada. Every gallon of gas pushing this bird forward, bought and paid for with my own domains. Uniregistry? Funded with those names? The sales marketplace? Domains again. Stocks, real estate, my giraffe? All paid for by picking the right names. If I can do that in 10 years with no outside money or support, no debt, think what you can do with a whole world of new extensions if you're just prepared to take a prudent well thought out risk.

Good luck to all.

 

[omelet]

about 1 month ago, someone inquired through godaddy if I want to sell a domain. Later I realized they are a Christian church and the name they showed interest was actually under their ownership.

I just gave the name to them for free. I am not a rich person. But I know what can make me happy. I love God.

 

[omelet]

In mid-, and long- run, new generation of business people, the young men and young women, will become the main power of various societies. Their intentions, passion, determinations to acquire great brands and domain names would never reduce.

Domainers should have the capability of thinking visionary. Something would never lose value, that is the great and stylish names of operating a business, and its relevant intellectual properties.

Up's and down's in short run is not the key. Our visions are.


Whatever the domain extensions are, the most important thing is the brandibility. The brand is created by person, visionary and creative persons can build better brand, and of course more powerful in the brand. As a seller, you should connect to them, wait for them, to come.

 

[ProvenPro]

About four years ago, the top domain on the GoDaddy auction Most Active list would be around $300. Since then, the domain market has much more money flowing in and a lot of competition for just decent domain names that become available. The problem is a lot of domainers are impatient once a domain name is acquired. I have reached out to all possible end users with certain domains and received no response, only to have a new business come out of nowhere a few years later and purchase the name. I have had droughts and unbelievable streaks of good fortune with domain sales. Sure, there is some luck, but you need to put yourself in position to get lucky. Do your best to acquire desirable names without putting yourself in a bad spot financially and ignore the industry noise.

 

[Casey L]

The only downside I see is more people who think they are domainers trying to enter the business via nTLDs. The "buy domains" page here less than a year ago was full of .coms and now it's bozos trying to sell 3 day old .VIP, .HotGarbage, and .Diarrhea for $xxx.

Good names will increase in value as they will represent a smaller percentage of inventory, and it will further make end-users wary of anything other than .com/.net/.org

 

[dordomai]

Has the influx of 400+ tlds contributed to the downfall of domaining?

have you found the industry take a dramatic drop in profits and sales?

Imo this industry is about to get a major tune up and its not in a good way.

millions of domains will be worthless or already are

drops will exceed any dropped stats in the past

millions of $ will/has been lost by domainers to registrars.

I don't think domaining will go away anytime soon but I agree that there is something in the air.

A lot of major domainers have been exiting the industry in the past 2 years.

Marchex
Buydomains
Berkens
Elite Domains

Also I think that some years back it seemed to be much easier to make money domaing/parking.

A lot of what you see happening on forums these days resembles a lottery where investors have a short-term memory and chase the next big thing always forgetting that the last next big thing didn't work out, almost never did. Despite that the next big thing is always a sure thing.

The reason why I don't think this is a sign of a healthy market is that domainers(or registries) need to create their own hype and artifical demand and sell among themselves. It highlights a lack of genuine investment opportunities.

Most of what is valuable has already been registered long time ago and when an opportunity exist everyone rushes in trying to get a share of it.

Now if you are a patient and diligent investor you can make money but I would say there are many other industries with far more potential. The hype that is seen in domaining is second to no other industry. Many of the large sales that are being reported simply don't happen or are website sales not domain sales.

The registries, registrars and the auction houses are making fortunes from domaining though.

 

[Kate]

1. If you buy domains just to sit and hold (i'm referring to generic premiums) you run serious risks of UDRP and losing the domain.

Then don't give predators the ammo to kill you. UDRPs are normally lost for good reasons.

2. Competition is fierce and intense at auction and getting worse all the time. Average names are going for serious 4 figures + at auction which makes margins much harder to achieve as most end users won't pay what you're looking for anymore i.e. 5 figures +.

Indeed, but:

• some good names are still slipping through the cracks
• you have to diversify sources, for example you can buy straight from long-time domain holders. Do your research, move your a$$ and don't follow the crowd

3. New GTLD's keep on coming out by the day and are having an impact on end user sales of good .coms. Companies have a ton of options now so they do not need to buy your 2/3 word .com anymore unless it's a category killer. I expect this trend to get worse as more extensions keep on coming.

As always, quality wins. But if you own domains in poor extensions like .info .biz then yes they are diluted and their value may have decreased.
I am somewhat skeptical about the impact of new extensions on domain sales, because the reported sales remains steady while the new extensions are not getting much traction. .com is still the best selling TLD, and mature ccTLDs are hardly affected. At this point it's not like new extensions are mainstream and everybody is familiar with them. Not at all. Make money now, and worry later if need be.

However domainers buying those new extensions (aka fools gold) are causing their own demise. This could be where the downfall of domaining is happening. And they wonder why making sales is so difficult...

4. Regulations may change to make domaining harder one day. Not saying it will but it's possible. just look at China and how they have cracked down to see what is possible..

Almost any business has regulations and red tape. For example look at the registries aka the new domainers. Registries are subjects to plenty of regulations and stringent requirements, but it's still an ordinary business. Registries are professional, domainers are amateurs/hobbyists.

5. End user sales/inquiries have dried up a lot, ask almost anyone and they will say they are experiencing the same thing. Someone reported a 5 figure sale recently which is good to see is still happening but it's becoming rarer to see these sort of big sales IMO.

Really ? We are witnessing record sales, LL.com are changing hands for huge sums. Good names still command high prices. There is always demand for good names, even for less premium ones. If you are not making sales, you don't have the right inventory so do something about it.
Domainers are too complacent about the quality of their portfolios. If you own average domains, you should aim for end user-friendly prices, which is still a valid business model if you make sales often.

6. Some of the biggest players have retired/semi retired and I do not for a second believe it is coincidence. I am sure they can see the writing on the wall and have got out whilst the going is still reasonably good.

Who do you have in mind other than Berkens who has his own reasons (and is not fully retired) ?

 

[deez007]

In mid-, and long- run, new generation of business people, the young men and young women, will become the main power of various societies. Their intentions, passion, determinations to acquire great brands and domain names would never reduce.

Domainers should have the capability of thinking visionary. Something would never lose value, that is the great and stylish names of operating a business, and its relevant intellectual properties.

Up's and down's in short run is not the key. Our visions are.


Whatever the domain extensions are, the most important thing is the brandibility. The brand is created by person, visionary and creative persons can build better brand, and of course more powerful in the brand. As a seller, you should connect to them, wait for them, to come.

Spot on mate, I have been saying this for a long time now. There is a new breed of entrepreneur these days. Tech savy, young and hip innovators. They dont care about tried and tested and old ways of doing things. They are visionaries and value brand-ability, they have no problem grabbing a new GTLD if it fits in with their brand and company culture.

Sure some of the new gtld's are just silly and over doing it BUT there are many of them that are awesome and will remain in demand for a long time.

 

[JB Lions]

This is a fair question. I had similar worries. What will happen to my coms in the face of all these new names. how will it impact the industry. The short answer is - "Everything will work out and the business will grow."

I say: more names = more opportunity. If I exclude registry revenue this should still be one of our better sales years.. Not the best (unless the team pulls off a turnaround) but still good. Most of that sales revenue is in .com but a growing tranche (each day) is from new names which is "amazing" since 1. lots of people still don't know they exist and 2. lots of great names are available unregistered.

On the market side we are seeing lots of secondary market transactions go down on new GTLDs and will return to publishing a list of sales in the coming months. It's a large trove of deals going down across customer accounts at Uniregistry. Mostly Com and a bunch of new stuff

In the old days if you were a domainer with a portfolio of borderline pigeons-sh*t .com names (bottom percentile) you could shuffle along with the big dogs and roll like a domainer boss. That time is over and all these new names are separating the men from the boys. Nobody is going to imagine how great your average .com could be in the future and talk up your names or pay them attention when one word generics in new extensions are available unregistered. If you're the guy with that class of .com name you're going to feel a bit pissed and vulnerable. You lost some sparkle. The biggest dogs don't like it either because their "really" good names look less good when a viable new G stands next to it. That comment is going to have a bunch of folks spit back at me but it's the truth. GreatName.com doesn;t look that good to an outsider (non domainer) when great name.shop .link .web .club .online .world etc etc etc etc stand next to it. Anyone who says otherwise is a hater, a denier or just too close to their names. The world is absolutely changing. It's happening slowly right now but it will accelerate with the passage of time and as the 12 year olds today turn 20 in 8 years. MB selling his portfolio (which many of us valued at 100 million or more) for the low tens of millions and the value of the Marchex deal can't make the guys (including myself) holding vast swaths of premium names feel very good. We all lost some money there. My portfolio is not worth as much (wholesale) today because of new GTLDS. Retail sales prices are still holding up, but we are seeing lots of dictionary word sales in new GTLD's in the low thousands going down along side those now on the Uniregistry Market.

I say easy come, easy go.. You have to roll with it or retire and some are chosing the latter. To be fair, some of those retiring are plowing that new retirement money into new names. MB bought my.mom (one of the best) for 10k when we accidentally let it out. It's his, it has a low renewal and he's in the money IMO.

Where we are today is a flashpoint where those with average to low quality .com/net names are disillusioned by all the new stuff, while the chinese and new faces are flooding into the room with new money and think they never had it so good. They're right of course.. Today you have history, and guidebooks, and a university course (cyger) and tools and forums like this and lots of names to chose from. When I started there was none of that.

Some of the old timers are angry and freaked out - the newcomers are sweeping up, but some of the same sly foxes who took the good .com names back in the day are still participating (myself included). The game hasn't changed. You just need to get the best names. You can't hurry that. I built my portfolio over 15 years. It's a journey.. you can't hurry the curry.

Lastly and very important. Not everybody knows what they are doing in domaining.. that is, not everyone is good enough at this business to pick well, mine well, sell well - in a nutshell - not everyone is cut out for this business. Those who "can't" will hate on this business and blame the backdrop when they fail. That's a given. This change in tide and 400 new extensions (half of which shouldn't be bought) are going to show you who can and who can't. The only certainty is the names will get bought. I could stand here and shout STOP BUYING NAMES - DANGER!! and people will still buy them, the need, the hunger and the opportunity is just too great.

I was born broke and am blathering like this because I'm bored and have nothing to do 8 miles in the air, writing from my seat on N265QS as I fly from Houston to Canada. Every gallon of gas pushing this bird forward, bought and paid for with my own domains. Uniregistry? Funded with those names? The sales marketplace? Domains again. Stocks, real estate, my giraffe? All paid for by picking the right names. If I can do that in 10 years with no outside money or support, no debt, think what you can do with a whole world of new extensions if you're just prepared to take a prudent well thought out risk.

Good luck to all.

You're just talking about the gas? Because that plane is owned by:

NETJETS SALES INC
OKLAHOMA CITY , OK, US
(Co-owned)

Unless that's yours. Do you own Netjets Sales Inc.?

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N265QS

The whole post is basically an ad. You're in the business of selling new gtlds.

"Most of that sales revenue is in .com"

Right. Most of your money spent in the Aftermarket is spent on what extension, can you share that with everybody?

 

[urlurl]

The new extensions can be compared to the great old gold rush's. The real winners were the ones selling the equipment to the prospectors... there were a few who struck it rich, but the real money was made selling goods and services to those hopping at striking it rich!

 

[Kate]

Good names are valuable, and they represent less than 1% of all registered domains.
They just multiplied the supply of worthless domains.
More than ever, you have to buy the right0 domains if you want to make sales.
DNJ has not closed shop yet.

 

[frank-germany]

I really love these "is domaining dead? " threads

everybody knows that .com was in 2000

and yes you are all late to the party
- but when I was young I always went to parties late .... -

 

[Silentptnr]

My only thoughts are:

1. There are many different possible reasons for fluctuations in personal domain sales. Quality and quantity of domains, mobile usage, etc.

2. Domains remain a forward-thinking investment with highest gains being long term.

3. Seems to me that the new gTLD's have perhaps created a "2nd Generation" of domain investors similar to the 1st Generation of domain investors that built their portfolios years ago and are now reaping the profits.

4. I imagine many larger investors with thousands of domains seem to be doing very well in recent times. Actually probably better than ever before.

I invest in domains as investments and for fun. My personal belief is that domain names will continue to increase in value generally.

 

[Fancy.domains]

If you, like a Domain King™, is holding on to a portfolio with crazy good .COMs, you will just have to relax in your yacht waiting for these six and seven-figure offers to come.

But if you're a small time player like me, which average sales are in the mid or high three-figure category, you'll have to fail, learn, fail, learn and at the same time build a good portfolio with names that actually people might buy. And sure, there are millions of these names out there. The problem is that most of them are already taken. :P

If you work hard and rely on data and sales trends, more than your own wishes, then you still can make decent money from domaining. Maybe not become a dollar millionaire, but at least put food on the table and pay the bills.

I am sure that many will disagree, but I strongly believe that hard work is a much, much, much more important factor than luck in domaining.


Genius is one percent inspiration, ninety nine percent perspiration

Thomas Edison

 

[Domain Lead Finder]

My grandmothers house was the only one in the neighborhood 60 years ago. Its value was low. Now there's 1000s of houses around it. Now the value is high. The same rings true for domain names.

 

[Kate]

The bottom line is that domain sales are always happening. The so-called new paradigm doesn't change that. You don't have to have great sales skills, it's all about the inventory. Good names sell for themselves. If you are not making sales, it's your fault. If you buy turds and you are not making sales you should not be surprised. Rather than posting doom about the end of domaining (which death has been announced so many times) you need to readjust. Spend your money wisely.

Downfall of domaining? I don't really think so. Just look around, new gtlds are everywhere. In fact, they're flourishing. And whether we like it or not, there will always be people embracing them.

I look around me, always. And I don't see any, or very rarely. They aren't mainstream at all. I don't know where you live, but I travel often, and I always pay attention to the local Internet landscape. I always see .com and ccTLD and a scattering of extensions such as .eu .org etc.
I haven't seen a lot of new extensions so far, most were in print in magazines.
Ironically, I don't think all people understand that something like superbhosting.site is a real URL, maybe adding www. in front would help.
The problem is not that few people use new extensions, the problem is the lack of critical mass.

 

[omelet]

I see many of domainers are more like front end day traders. They buy, and they sell. I doubt if they really love domains like some of us love master pieces of art works, photography, watches, diamonds, or cars.

A successful domainer must love their commodities, the names, and can find the beautiful side of their commodities. It is none about businesses, none about money and profit.

I love to own domains, first, is because I love them and I want to keep them. And the second is to trade some of them if I do not need them any more and someone really need it or want to pay for it.


In 2009, when I graduated and became an entrepreneur, it was the first time in my life I realize the importance of domain names. At that time, most of keyword and catchy names have been registered. So I and my friends gathered together to try to generate some new great but non-registered names for our businesses.

Slowly, I realized I started to enjoy this searching game. Everytime when I created a name that I enjoyed a lot and registered successfully, I felt great. I treasured all the names I have. I enjoyed to have them rather than sell them for a profit.

I dont rely on domain sales to make a living, but I enjoy having fun with domain names. I dont feel great when I make a profit, because I feel sorry to say goodbye with my names; I dont feel sad if I have nothing sales achieved, because I can keep my ownership with my domains.

Same to many of you, I am a visionary person. Holding a thousand of names is not easy. My faith is always to turn those great names into the real branding and see the new brands rise up. I have interests in many different areas like media and tech, so I asked myself, if I dont make any money but lose money to hold these great names, am I still a good domainer? My answer is yes. Because I love my domain names.

So I dont feel lose. I dont feel panic. I dont feel yes or no, right or wrong. I am happy as I am doing what I enjoy to do.

 

[JayJay]

Today many people are using facebook pages, twitter, free blogs, wix, weebly.
All of these services are free you dont even need a domain name or even a computer you can just use your phone. Did anyone else factor those in?

Most serious domainers (not hand reg collectors) with quality names are targetting mid to large cap corps that would never run their biz strictly off social media or free web dev services. A domain will be necessary for quite a few more years, imho.

 

[joro001]

I hear both sides of the discussion but in truth i'm siding for the doom and gloom for many reasons.

1. If you buy domains just to sit and hold (i'm referring to generic premiums) you run serious risks of UDRP and losing the domain. It is highly time consuming and expensive to defend and panels have time again made crazy decisions so there's no guarantee you will keep the name. Right now circus.com has a UDRP against it I mean come on lol.

2. Competition is fierce and intense at auction and getting worse all the time. Average names are going for serious 4 figures + at auction which makes margins much harder to achieve as most end users won't pay what you're looking for anymore i.e. 5 figures +.

3. New GTLD's keep on coming out by the day and are having an impact on end user sales of good .coms. Companies have a ton of options now so they do not need to buy your 2/3 word .com anymore unless it's a category killer. I expect this trend to get worse as more extensions keep on coming.

4. Regulations may change to make domaining harder one day. Not saying it will but it's possible. just look at China and how they have cracked down to see what is possible.

5. End user sales/inquiries have dried up a lot, ask almost anyone and they will say they are experiencing the same thing. Someone reported a 5 figure sale recently which is good to see is still happening but it's becoming rarer to see these sort of big sales IMO.

6. Some of the biggest players have retired/semi retired and I do not for a second believe it is coincidence. I am sure they can see the writing on the wall and have got out whilst the going is still reasonably good.

If you disagree power to you but no way would I do this full time for any extended period.
All the best.

 

[Wittybliss.com]

about 1 month ago, someone inquired through godaddy if I want to sell a domain. Later I realized they are a Christian church and the name they showed interest was actually under their ownership.

I just gave the name to them for free. I am not a rich person. But I know what can make me happy. I love God.

You have a great mentality my brother, I love God too. Givers are always on the top in this world. Your action is proof of the love of God in your heart. Very inspiring!
I do say, as far as it is done with love and faith because of God, you will never loose your reward. It is coming back to you for sure in Jesus name.

 

[Shea]

No matter how many new cars come out Lamborghini's and Ferrari are still hot.
Ferrari is to cars as .com is to gTLD.
No matter how many new gTLD come out Lamborghinis are still desired.
Now if you were a business would you want to be found at .Ferrari or .Kia?
New gTLD may even increase the value and prestige of the .com.
What do you think, fair comparison?

 

[domain12345]

Domaining is a skillful trade..and every trade has its tricks to succeed and flaws to fail... people in phase of early dot com grabbed the best possible online real estate and held on to it , had the funds to sustain and turn investments into $$$$$...

Most new tld high profile sales are registry sales...but the greed to succeed is costing domainers lots of money to invest without much sales..human nature and the hope to be a domain millionaire wont let domaining fall..but wipe out domainers who invested in wrong domains or ones who invested in the right domains but did not have renewal funds or could not patiently wait to turn them to gold.

 

[4better]

Downfall of domaining? I don't really think so. Just look around, new gtlds are everywhere. In fact, they're flourishing. And whether we like it or not, there will always be people embracing them. These new gtlds are like menus... some like the taste, some don't. Sweet taste for some, sour taste for others. Anyway, for me, I like the sweet and sour menu.

 

[dordomai]

Downfall of domaining? I don't really think so. Just look around, new gtlds are everywhere. In fact, they're flourishing. And whether we like it or not, there will always be people embracing them. These new gtlds are like menus... some like the taste, some don't. Sweet taste for some, sour taste for others. Anyway, for me, I like the sweet and sour menu.

They are everywhere on domaining blogs and in the namepros sales threads.

If you exclude the fake Chinese XYZ sales only 2 nGTLD sales out of the top 100 on Dnjournal this year. That is 2% and the total sales amount is $1xx,xxx. At least one of the sales was a domainer. So out of 100 sales only 1 single end-user?

How many millions have been spent by domainers on .VIP alone? Will the crowd lose money on average?

Will the .VIP investments as a whole be profitable?

At the moment they are not flourishing at all. If you talk about future potential then that's another story. No one knows what will happen 10-20 years from now.

But if we stick to the facts as of today there is still very little usage and sales. Let's see how sales are 2 years from now.

Also I believe that if there is an opportunity it must be for the most part for the registries. After all they have already premium priced everything that they believe to be valuable. What you can get today is mostly what they believe to be not worth more than regfee.