Thanks to Undeveloped, I refunded draco.

[AgentE13]

He posted a thread about me, telling I scammed him. This is NOT true. This is what really happened:

I bought 2 domains from Undeveloped.com (82742.com and 28924.com) on September 20th.
I held them for a few time and then William Efron offered me 700$ for the domains so I sold it to him on October 17th.

I transferred the domains to William's GoDaddy account, William confirmed to me that he got the domains and the deal was successful.

On November 7th William got a message from GoDaddy that his domains are repossessed by GoDaddy and if he wants them back, he can purchase them from GoDaddy for 761$.

You can see the email William got from GoDaddy here (William sent me the copy):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dmnrnkj2yx2u86i/GoDaddy's response to William's Email.png?dl=0

GoDaddy took the domains from his account and added them to his cart so if he wants he can purchase the domains for 761$.
William is saying that I bought the domains with a stolen credit card and this is why the domains were repossessed, but it's not true.

As I said I have paid for the domains via PayPal as you can see here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bw3m3l3n41ae1mu/Completed Payments I made for Undeveloped.png?dl=0

Also, these are the Invoices from Undeveloped.com:
Invoice for 82742.com:
https://undeveloped.com/invoices/asxw24br/buyer.pdf
Invoice for 28924.com:
https://undeveloped.com/invoices/kw0m4lp0/buyer.pdf

I did not cancel any payment, I just bought 2 domains from Undeveloped.com which is a well-known domains website, and sold them to William because he offered me 700$ for them.
William contacted ME. HE wanted to buy the domains from ME. I did not force him to pay for the domains.
William just offered me 700$ for them so I accepted it.

Now GoDaddy is telling William that something is wrong with his account, and instead of trying to solve it with GoDaddy, he looks for the easy (and the wrong) way to get his domains back which is getting a refund for 700$ from the seller (which has nothing to do with the fact that GoDaddy took his domains) and then purchase the domains from GoDaddy for 761$.

If I was responsible in any way, GoDaddy would have contacted ME, and added the domains to MY cart. but that is not the situation. They sent William an email and gave HIM the option to purchase the domains from them because HE is the owner and held them for more than 3 weeks in his account before GoDaddy contacted him.

*I* didn't take the domains from William's account. *I* didn't cancel any payment. I am 100% legit, you are more than welcome to check my payment history and you will see that I NEVER did a chargeback or my payment wasn't accepted.

I really don't understand why he opened this case instead of keep contacting GoDaddy and explain the situation to them until they give him his domains back. After all, if they are giving him the option to purchase them, they can also give them back to him.
I can't control GoDaddy's actions and as much as I want to help, I will not take the hit for GoDaddy's actions.

 

[DotKing]

Godaddy reposessesed one of my domains after 4 weeks because of THEIR problem with the last owner. Not stolen domain! Without any explanation of course - we successfully removed your domain! Wow. Lost 2 days getting it back. I was super persistant here on forum.

That was 1 year ago and I never touched GD again. Had also just problems with them in the past.
So sad that giant like GD doing that kind of unethical, unprofessional and almost scammy business.

 

[Joe Styler]

@Joe Styler Any comment about this issue?

I commented on this thread.

 

[equity78]

We can stand by Omer and verify that Omer didn't engage in any scamming activities. I understand people have lost money and might have gotten emotional about it but considering all facts Omer is definitely not the person to blame and his reputation should be safeguarded also by this forum in case false information is being spread about him.

Tell that to @draco who is out $700, I am not accusing Mr.Doron of anything. But the whole situation is completely screwed and also a blueprint for how to scam.

 

[.X.]

It is indeed a blueprint to scammers out there, I don't see any fault with Mr.Doran, he had no idea these names would be charged back IMO, I don't see fault with Godaddy, they sold two domains, they had no idea that the buyer would do a chargeback, and they can wait 60 days in most cases to do chargeback, so

I don't see Undeveloped having to take accountability, here again, they had no idea that a fraudulent situation was taking place, and the names were sold after the fact.

This is a very fucked up situation.

 

[DotKing]

Godaddy needs to secure better their payments, lock domains until funds are cleared or whatever else to protect themselves. Chargebacks happens. It's not new owner's fault. It's only their problem IMHO.
Comparing that situation with real life theft where police needs to be involved is just not comparable. Domain is under their roof and they can't control that? I really can't understand that.

 

[.X.]

Godaddy needs to secure better their payments, lock domains until funds are cleared or whatever else to protect themselves. Chargebacks happens. It's not new owner's fault. It's only their problem IMHO.
Comparing that situation with real life theft where police needs to be involved is just not comparable. Domain is under their roof and they can't control that? I really can't understand that.

Godaddy usually takes 2 weeks before they turn over the domain names I have won at their auction. that
I am assuming to verify and let my funds process, but, due to the fact a person could do a chargeback should they start holding domains for a min of 30 days or even longer??

That would drive a reseller crazy, and lock up their funding to purchase more inventory.

If shit flies south such as this case, you have buyer #1= the scamming piece of shit, Buyer #2 = the person buying to resell, Buyer #3= The person receiving the fraudulent purchase by Buyer #1
And all this took place pretty quickly. X3 buyers

 

[DotKing]

Yeah, then better take domains from any account, who cares, it's just some customer and owner of this domain. Been there. Horror story. I don't feel my domains are safe if some old chargeback from some other guy make my domain vanish after weeks. Problem is payment not domain.

 

[.X.]

Yeah, then better take domains from any account, who cares, it's just some customer and owner of this domain. Been there. Horror story. I don't feel my domains are safe if some old chargeback from some other guy make my domain vanish after weeks. Problem is payment not domain.

The only solution would be for the auction house to hold the domain much longer before releasing it.up to 60 days, Or, ban credit card payments for domains altogether.

Consumers don't want to pay for something and have to wait two months for delivery, strictly bank wire could be an option, there is no way to stop fraud altogether, the criminal element stays up with technology better than we do.

In such cases where a per say an auction house has done their due diligence, made sure the payment cleared for a transaction, and that the credit card used was not stolen. that is about all they can do.

 

[Niraj Kumar]

The only solution would be for the auction house to hold the domain much longer before releasing it.up to 60 days, Or, ban credit card payments for domains altogether.

Consumers don't want to pay for something and have to wait two months for delivery, strictly bank wire could be an option, there is no way to stop fraud altogether, the criminal element stays up with technology better than we do.

In such cases where a per say an auction house has done their due diligence, made sure the payment cleared for a transaction, and that the credit card used was not stolen. that is about all they can do.

60 days lock period is already there so technically GoDaddy has control over domain for 60 days already. So why would they hold domain for 60 days in a seperate account as they can't leave it in seller's account?If they hold domain for 60 days in a seperate account and transfer it then the buyer will have to wait another 60 days to transfer it elsewhere. This will be total 120 days wait time before reseller can transfer it elsewhere.

GoDaddy needs to find another solution for this. For now one can save from such scam is to only buy premium names after removal of 60 days lock period in sellers' account .Now once you buy premium name put another $10 to transfer it out to another registrar for more safety.You can certainly ignore this if you know the seller or at least have some proof of his reputation or in the case of hand registered name(as he/she will be the first seller) or very low priced names. But buying premium names from an unknown person within lock period involves such risks.

One can know the domain is in 60 days lock period by checking the last updated date in whois. Also check in status clientTransferProhibited.

 

[NameOmnia]

The same happened to me a couple of years ago.

I bought a couple of names here on the forum and shortly after GD took them from my account asking me to pay the amount that the previous owner supposedly owed them

Luckily for me the guy just had an issue with his credit card and was not a scammer so everything was solved but only after many phone calls to GD by both of us with support giving us contradictory information and attempting to blame us for what happened etc.

It was an awful experience and I am still flabbergasted by how GD is even legally allowed to behave this way.

At that time to me it felt almost like GD had stolen the domain from me and I am still 100% convinced that as a business they should take into consideration the risks of conducting such business and deal with them themselves.

They never lose while, instead, we all do.

 

[Nahdism]

The only person who should be punished and limited from other buying/selling activities is the one who made a chargeback after the auctions. I guess it has nothing to do with Omar and Draco. Please go after the first person who created this rukus.

 

[3sixty]

This is absolute BS from GoDaddy. There, I said it.

So as a rule of thumb, if a domain has ever historically been with GD, never do a deal that takes it back to that registrar. Your at risk of repossession of your asset through no fault of your own and with no rights to it based off of their t&c. And then they will offer to sell it back to you.

Basically, according to the events laid out, there are two thefts in question here. Wow.

 

[NameOmnia]

What GD does equals this.

A shop gets robbed by a thief ( or a thief uses a stolen card to purchase items ) and the shop owner goes house by house to forcefully "reposses" ALL the items that the thief stole and if the customers want to have their ( already paid for ) items they have to buy them again.

Now, someone has to explain to me how something like this can even be remotely legal.

 

[golan]

I don't see fault with Godaddy, they sold two domains, they had no idea that the buyer would do a chargeback

Sorry, can't agree with that. GD as a strong marketplace should have some kind of insurance against such fraud. And anyway in no mean should impose the loss on a bona fide buyer.

 

[Jv1999]

What GD does equals this.

A shop gets robbed by a thief ( or a thief uses a stolen card to purchase items ) and the shop owner goes house by house to forcefully "reposses" ALL the items that the thief stole and if the customers want to have their ( already paid for ) items they have to buy them again.

Now, someone has to explain to me how something like this can even be remotely legal.

Because it's the internet. You could get in trouble for selling nude photos of yourself in real life if you're in one of those states where it's illegal in certain circumstances. But wow, it's perfectly okay for cosplayers to have nudes for sail on patreon ^_^. because it's legal-internet.

 

[Jv1999]

The only solution would be for the auction house to hold the domain much longer before releasing it.up to 60 days, Or, ban credit card payments for domains altogether.

Consumers don't want to pay for something and have to wait two months for delivery, strictly bank wire could be an option, there is no way to stop fraud altogether, the criminal element stays up with technology better than we do.

In such cases where a per say an auction house has done their due diligence, made sure the payment cleared for a transaction, and that the credit card used was not stolen. that is about all they can do.

I don't know about you. . . but I don't want to wait 2 months to receive a domain that I had to pay for 60 days earlier. That would mess everyone up!

We all want to make our 1 - 2% sail within 365 days so we can get our ROI... and 2 month-wait means you lose almost 17% of sail waiting time.

 

[.X.]

I don't know about you. . . but I don't want to wait 2 months to receive a domain that I had to pay for 60 days earlier. That would mess everyone up!

We all want to make our 1 - 2% sail within 365 days so we can get our ROI... and 2 month-wait means you lose almost 17% of sail waiting time.

Exactly, no one wants to wait an extended period of time to receive the goods they have paid for, especially not domainers. every day counts with us. we need our domains after payment has been verified.

department stores don't make anyone wait, swipe the card, your out the door with your purchase, BUT, if you do a chargeback, the merchandise has to be returned to the store.

In this case, Buyer #1 purchases the domain names from Godaddy using a credit card, Godaddy holds the names until payment has cleared, At this point, Godaddy has their money, Buyer #1 has the two domain names, Buyer #1 flips the names to buyer #2, Buyer #2 flips the names to buyer #3, the names are in buyer #3 account at Godaddy, The chargeback has been submitted by buyer #1 ,Then i stop there and ask myself, if a credit card company requires tangible merchandise to be returned to it's rightful owner before they will allow a chargeback, wouldn't the card company require Buyer #1 to confirm he returned the domain names back to Godaddy before issuing a chargeback??? Apparently not.

All this is some really fucked up shit, trying to figure out exact accountability is pretty tough with this, One thing I do know for sure, Buyer #1 is a fucking piece of shit, who should be in jail right now.

 

[Jv1999]

Exactly, no one wants to wait an extended period of time to receive the goods they have paid for, especially not domainers. every day counts with us. we need our domains after payment has been verified.

department stores don't make anyone wait, swipe the card, your out the door with your purchase, BUT, if you do a chargeback, the merchandise has to be returned to the store.

In this case, Buyer #1 purchases the domain names from Godaddy using a credit card, Godaddy holds the names until payment has cleared, At this point, Godaddy has their money, Buyer #1 has the two domain names, Buyer #1 flips the names to buyer #2, Buyer #2 flips the names to buyer #3, the names are in buyer #3 account at Godaddy, The chargeback has been submitted by buyer #1 ,Then i stop there and ask myself, if a credit card company requires tangible merchandise to be returned to it's rightful owner before they will allow a chargeback, wouldn't the card company require Buyer #1 to confirm he returned the domain names back to Godaddy before issuing a chargeback??? Apparently not.

All this is some really f*cked up sh*t, trying to figure out exact accountability is pretty tough with this, One thing I do know for sure, Buyer #1 is a f*cking piece of sh*t, who should be in jail right now.

actually i think if u report your cc stolen... the stolen merch doesn't need to be returned physically... they just let the fraud/whatver department deal with that.

 

[Internet.Domains]

Every consumer pays for chargebacks already. The merchant pays a percentage of the sale to the issuing bank. This percentage varies on the risk of the merchant. Generally online transactions are risky and therefore the merchant pays more. These extra costs are passed from the merchant to the end consumer in the cost of goods or services.

Understanding that, it is fair to conclude that, amongst other things, Godaddy was double dipping.

It is estimated that chargeback fraud takes billions from consumers already. Meanwhile Godaddy takes another piece off the top. Yes, that is messed up.

 

[DotKing]

Oh cmon... Like GD is the only one having issues with chargebacks, and we should all pay for their problems, scammers, thieves? It's their responsibility to protect themselves. Small businesses can do that, just google about it. It's a nonsense.
GD just don't care, don't explain, and tell you contradictory bs for days. Support is trained to sell and get rid of you if you need real support/help.
I know I maybe sound way too mad, it's all based on my personal experience and opinion. When I recall all the details I've been thru when that happened, it's just too much, I have zero trust in that company. Nightmare. Not sure how they can do that for years without consequences.

After all GD don't lose anything either way, it was their auction in the first place, they don't pay for auctioning these domains - they just collect money from buyers and sellers. And then they take domains back if they want to and whenever they want, for whatever reason. Arrgh.

 

[DomainRecap]

It is indeed a blueprint to scammers out there, I don't see any fault with Mr.Doran, he had no idea these names would be charged back IMO, I don't see fault with Godaddy, they sold two domains, they had no idea that the buyer would do a chargeback, and they can wait 60 days in most cases to do chargeback

The problem is, that people can't just "do a chargeback" on anything they want, and the vendor could easily challenge and prove that the buyer received what he or she bought. A chargeback is a not a "get free stuff" card, it's a method of challenging fraudulent and undelivered products and services.

This was obviously purchased using a stolen credit card, whose rightful owner then initiated a proper chargeback, and GD needs to take some blame in allowing a fraudulent transaction, rather than just playing "hammer the victim" and stealing domains back.

 

[karmaco]

GoDaddy sucks. End of story.

 

[Jv1999]

GoDaddy sucks. End of story.

tbh. if Epik had these expired auctions and closeouts... would we even have domains at GD?

In the end, GD's main hook and bait and mainstay is their aftermarket auctions. No domainer would stay at GD otherwise.

 

[DomainRecap]

For now one can save from such scam is to only buy premium names after removal of 60 days lock period in sellers' account .

Yep, no GoDaddy pushes and Transfer Codes only will save you every time.

 

[AgentE13]

Undeveloped sent me a refund so I refunded draco.
Undeveloped is great. They didn`t have to take responsibility for GoDaddy's actions, but they did.
Thanks to their good will this situation is now closed.