Teach a man to fish - Co-creating Abundance

[Rob Monster]

You all know the famous proverb from Lao Tzu:

I think it also applies to domaining.

I believe in teaching people to become sovereign, so they can provide for themselves, provide for their families, provide for their communities and also have time to contemplate the meaning of life.

So with this in mind, I have sponsored a number of initiatives, which I will not name here because that would be promotional and the mods don't like that.

However, I do want to share something and invite input to it. About 6 weeks ago, Epik acquired 2 brands that had training products associated with them: DomainFlippa and Domain Graduate.

The Founder of Domain Graduate, Sean Stafford, and I have a shared passion for teaching people how to become successful domainers. This project fits my personal interest and calling: (digital) empowerment.

In the past, Domain Graduate and Domain Flippa were both paid courses. The existence of a fee implicitly meant that most people would never participate since there was a large toll at the entrance.

When Epik acquired these brands, it was with the specific goal of making the pie bigger. We want to help teach a lot more people to be good at domaining by tapping the wisdom of those who mastered it.

With this mind, I am sharing a living draft, of what is to become Domain Graduate 2.0. It is the collective wisdom of some professional domainers. You can download a copy here:

https://my.armored.net/index.php/s/dG7MkwJAp9H3L43

This document will continue to be iterated, so if you see issues or opportunities to improve, we'll use this thread to invite discussion about how to empower more people to become effective domainers.

As for the draft document, here is my ask:

- If you have time, review it and send any editorial feedback to @DomainGraduate.

- Comment publicly if you like to discuss or share some technique that you think belongs in the course.

- Feel free to invite non-NP members to visit this page to retrieve the draft course.

We will add an acknowledgement section collating the input and refrencing the attributed contributions. That section might get large, and that is fine!

In about one week, we'll have a final version and we'll publish it with a beautiful cover, and put it online at a new and improved DomainGraduate.com so anyone can download it.

After that, we plan to recruit translators to localize the document and where appropriate add local resource tips. Different countries will have different versions to reflect language, ccTLD, local laws and local customs.

Finally, for anyone who wants to contribute to the cause, domain name donations are welcome to the eRise Foundation, for which a latest update is described here.

So, that's it. Tell us what you think.

On behalf of the Domain Graduate Team:

Rob Monster, @Abdullah Abdullah, and Sean Stafford

 

[Rob Monster]

Thank you for you gentle words about my thinking and mindset - it is pure kindness from you, and although it was rather short answer, imo it answered all points in my post in detail.

True example of professional level of discussion we should be all doing here, and how to exchange the ideas and opinions on this forum. So, thanks again

I took issue with your directive:

That is some nonsense right there. You think this is about money. It is not.

 

[JB Lions]

That is some nonsense right there. You think this is about money. It is not.

So you're a business and it's not about money?

Epik being mentioned 32 times, is not meant to drive traffic to Epik, resulting in sales (money)?

You starting threads on .org and dash .com, mentioning big sales, was not meant to drive regs?

You posting a spreadsheet with 4 letter .orgs was not meant for people to start regging?

The stuff with all these other countries is because you want to tap those markets to make............money.

etc.

@Ategy.com don't overthink it. The goal of a registrar is to make money. GoDaddy wasn't passing out $1 coupons for new regs and transfers to save the world, it was to get people into the GoDaddy ecosystem, hoping they'll stay and continue to spend money.

It's business, business is about making money. Don't try to make it bigger than it is.

Rob, why not simply make your own ebook, called it Monster's Guide To Domaining. If you feel you have knowledge to share, get it organized, knock an ebook out.

-------------
Didn't see this thread in my New Posts. Thanks mods for moving it to the right forum/Promotional.

The General Discussion forum should be for exactly that.

 

[Kassey Lee]

could we count on you for a chapter on Chinese and Pinyin domains?

Happy to help. Need to know the writing requirements. Also, I'm traveling overseas now, added with new writing assignment. Won't be able to help unless you can wait until late December or early January.

 

[JB Lions]

Big update here:

http://demos.epik.com/review/dg/

The updated e-Book with layout is now online, including 4 new chapters of content, including 3 written by yours truly.

A couple questions:

1. The title will get an update since some folks did not like it. How about "Achieving Financial Independence with Domains"?

2. Are there any essential sections missing? Any nominations for content contributors?

And a reminder, any organization that contributes meaningful content gets a free sponsorship. We have some placeholder sponsors on there yet in addition to Epik and @James Rayers' company.

You have 6 places to Buy and Sell and left off the #1 place I buy, Namejet, is there some reason they're not being mentioned?

Chapter 7 seems to be completely off, content nothing to do with subject. Just 2.5 pages

Chapter 7: The Domain Name Aftermarket
New Hamshire seacoast
talking about renewing 100 .infos

Here is the last half page:

But when it comes time to renew those 100 regular .infos the renewal fee will be $10 dollars each. The first year of registration is what is cheap, not the renewals. Second, it is going to be easier to manage and market one good .info then it is going to be to market 100 no-so-good .info domains. Now, it’s true that you may be able to swing a few good sales with some of these info’s that you have registered if you play your cards right, but it is going to take more of your time. Keep in mind, it is going to be much better to have one very good name then to have 100 bad ones. Quality domains sell well, and no one wants to buy large quantities of bad ones. Costs aside, managing one good domain is far more efficient than the exhaustive and futile efforts to try and monetize or manage 100 bad ones.

What does that have to do with the Aftermarket?

 

[oskaaay]

You all know the famous proverb from Lao Tzu:

Show attachment 134962

I think it also applies to domaining.

I believe in teaching people to become sovereign, so they can provide for themselves, provide for their families, provide for their communities and also have time to contemplate the meaning of life.

So with this in mind, I have sponsored a number of initiatives, which I will not name here because that would be promotional and the mods don't like that.

However, I do want to share something and invite input to it. About 6 weeks ago, Epik acquired 2 brands that had training products associated with them: DomainFlippa and Domain Graduate.

The Founder of Domain Graduate, Sean Stafford, and I have a shared passion for teaching people how to become successful domainers. This project fits my personal interest and calling: (digital) empowerment.

In the past, Domain Graduate and Domain Flippa were both paid courses. The existence of a fee implicitly meant that most people would never participate since there was a large toll at the entrance.

When Epik acquired these brands, it was with the specific goal of making the pie bigger. We want to help teach a lot more people to be good at domaining by tapping the wisdom of those who mastered it.

With this mind, I am sharing a living draft, of what is to become Domain Graduate 2.0. It is the collective wisdom of some professional domainers. You can download a copy here:

https://my.armored.net/index.php/s/dG7MkwJAp9H3L43

This document will continue to be iterated, so if you see issues or opportunities to improve, we'll use this thread to invite discussion about how to empower more people to become effective domainers.

As for the draft document, here is my ask:

- If you have time, review it and send any editorial feedback to @DomainGraduate.

- Comment publicly if you like to discuss or share some technique that you think belongs in the course.

- Feel free to invite non-NP members to visit this page to retrieve the draft course.

We will add an acknowledgement section collating the input and refrencing the attributed contributions. That section might get large, and that is fine!

In about one week, we'll have a final version and we'll publish it with a beautiful cover, and put it online at a new and improved DomainGraduate.com so anyone can download it.

After that, we plan to recruit translators to localize the document and where appropriate add local resource tips. Different countries will have different versions to reflect language, ccTLD, local laws and local customs.

Finally, for anyone who wants to contribute to the cause, domain name donations are welcome to the eRise Foundation, for which a latest update is described here.

So, that's it. Tell us what you think.

On behalf of the Domain Graduate Team:

Rob Monster, @Abdullah Abdullah, and Sean Stafford

Am glad to be pointed to this thread. It indeed a cause worth pursuing to empower others. Really grateful

 

[Ala Dadan]

Great idea from @oldtimer. Please make that happen.

Confirmed @Rob Monster
thank you @oldtimer great ideas and we will update.

 

[Ala Dadan]

Just noticed... index on RHS of website is missing "Chapter 4 - Typo Domains"

I have just checked the site, looks like the navigation column had chapter 4 link missing, it is added now

 

[Croissant]

Hi Rob,

Many thanks for the initiative and thanks everyone who puts an effort on it.

I will spend my time to read the complete document and get back to thread with my comments.

 

[Rob Monster]

WHere on the site or newsletter do you have a place where these domains are dropping?

See here:

https://marketplace.epik.com/daily-diamonds

The inventory is fresh every day.

 

[Rob Monster]

Rob,

Sorry, but I only got to the second line of text. I will read the full draft in time and let you know what I think.

"Tapping the Online Mines" - I feel that this might be a little insensitive in countries that have had or continue to have problems with land mines.

Kind regards,

Neil

Thanks Neil. Good catch. This was some old copy from Sean. I think we can improve that wording.

 

[Rob Monster]

@Reddstagg .. as @bmugford pointed out .. he's referring to "mining for gold"



As long as it's not mining for booger nuggets!

You can pick your friends ...
You can pick your nose ...
... But you can't pick your friend's nose!

Digging for Gems. Panning for Gold. Any of those. "Mining" is a word with some baggage, e.g. blood diamonds, mining accidents, etc. Fair point, really.

 

[Rob Monster]

Here is a version with graphics and cover:

https://my.armored.net/index.php/s/ktffwW5GeeymENT

More edits coming. Keep the input flowing.

 

[Rob Monster]

I don't want to "keep people ignorant" so:

The one I mentioned, not sure if it's still available but - https://domainnamewire.com/2014/05/21/how-to-sell-domain-names-on-marketplaces/

Free tutorial videos:
https://www.estibot.com/guide

Appraisal Guide
Lead Guide
Whois Guide
Expiring Domains Guide
Lead Score Tool Guide
Brandable Domain Generator Guide
Domain Name Parser Guide
Domain Name Keyword Extractor Guide
Domain Trademark Checker Guide
Domain Availability Checker Guide
Bulk DNS Checker Guide
Domain Categorization Guide
Domain Web Crawler Guide
Business Locator Guide
Domain Generator Guide
Typo Generator Guide
Organic Traffic Checker Guide
Domain List Filter Guide
Understanding the Scan Queue

Just checked, videos are working.

There is this domain forum, full of free info - https://www.namepros.com

Maybe a caring person can make a thread and put all this type of stuff in 1 post. To help the world out, co-create abundance, insert some other marketing phrases here

Awesome. Keep that input coming.

@estibot.com is is an industry treasure.

I was not aware of that DNW report. Cool.

 

[biggie]

Hi

I assume this is the aftermath of previous thread below
https://www.namepros.com/threads/epik-university-branding-question.1155727/

however, even after the comments here, my sentiments are the same as i stated before

maybe somebody should create a domain high school first….
then if they graduate

they can go to a domain university, academy or college.

later, when they get their degrees,
put copies of it on their marketplace sites and landers, which will add a level of credibility for them, as a domainer seller.

visitors will assume your portfolio must be high quality, because you got a degree in domaining.



imo...

it's all good that domaining has evolved and continues to do so
yet, there seems to more time spent nowadays, conceiving and investing in ways to grab the minds of aspiring domainers, before they register their first domain.

so many picks and shovels to sell and they all got hooks to reel you in

imo...

 

[Laguna]

Aha was talking about Orange County. Pelican Hill is a go-to for us when wife needs a sunbreak and lunch on the deck at Nick's in Laguna.

Aha ok cool.
I live in London, England but I took the name Laguna from my favourite racing circuit Laguna seca

 

[Rob Monster]

Thanks for your invitation to tell you what I think. Well, I do not know if I read that 100% correctly, but it seems to me that:

1. You invited Namepros users to work for free (spending their time and intelect) on your own Domain Graduate 2.0 project - which will be for free as you informed (but if you maybe decide later to ask for small fee, certainly it will be great as well). So basically we should be working on your class/book for free, giving our knowledge/time/energy/focus/attention to build an asset, which belongs exclusively to you. Why so?

2. You have provided links to 2 of you projects, DomainFlippa and Domain Graduate, which is clearly promotional - why you have not started that in Promotional section, where it does belong?

3. "When .... acquired these brands, it was with the specific goal of making the pie bigger."

I have already heard about that infamous PIE at least 100x here - If I might ask, whose PIE is this? Your PIE will be surely bigger (you are an CEO of registrar), but PIE for the rest of us (domain investors) will be definitely smaller. There is a specific number of end users at any certain time, and when you increase the number of domain investors, the PIE will not get bigger, it will get smaller for all of us here (domain investors), except you (the registrar). THE SMALLER PIE. So let's call it exactly as it is. Once again : smaller, not bigger. Or bigger for you, but smaller for us. So why we should help you increase numbers of our competitors (in addition to build your company asset for free)?

4. I personally think every domain investor should really mind his own domain portfolio.
99% of the guys here are loosing money, and they do not have money. I think it is mainly because they do not take care about their own business, but largely discussing "personalities" of domain industry. This is one of many recent threads, where it seems that we should be helping to build your company (and we should do it for free, because it is for greater good).

For those who think I am bit harsh here, you need to understand: next time when you will have to pay your medical bill or your rental, it will be YOU who will need to pay that bill. It wil not be ..., and it will not be "domain industry". It will be YOU . So YOU need to get money for your time/energy/focus/attention/contribution - not some promises of better future for everyone, but actual money, so you can provide for yourself and your families.

And if actual money are not there, you need to re-focus your attention back to what matters, which is your business (or you will stay poor, or bootstrapping, forever). This is particularly valid for those who are younger, inexperienced, and from emerging countries - focus your attention where it is really needed - to your own portfolio, and to your own sales. And then, AFTER you have enought money and you are already bored and do not know what to do with your free time, you can then help for free to build/improve a wealthy private western company (or "domain community", or whatever will be trending at that time).

But for now, please focus your attention to your own matters.

Thank you for understanding

More scarcity thinking. Pity.

Old school domainer with small pie mindset -- every man for himself. Lame.,

I hoped for better from you.

 

[Rob Monster]

Who is your "target audience" for the book?




I'm not sure I would have found such a book to be honest (although I'm sure there are some who would). I bought my first domain 20 years ago to start what would be a huge DJ online community .. then over the years I grabbed a few more domains here and there. Even after FB effectively killed most online communities, I still kept the domains and grabbed some here and there for "future development". So I actually had a lot of domains before I started "domaining". I think that's the story of a lot of domainers. Probably the more successful ones as well, as they could understand the perspective of the end user.




That's why I was saying I think a week is rather (/extremely) optimistic.

I think a ground up would probably be the better choice .. but as a few of us have pointed out .. our fear is that even if it's significantly better, someone is going to finish reading the book and think they're be able to be successful domainers. But domaining is so much more than the technical aspects. There's phonetics, language, wordplay, business niche knowledge, cultural references, and several other elements .. combined with needing a good base in marketing and an excellent command of English. Obviously those sort of things could be part of a course .. but again .. we're talking a completely different book.

I'm certainly not saying it's not possible for someone to come in and succeed .. and a book most certainly could help .. but domaining just isn't for everyone.

How many people who started 6 to 18 months ago actually made a profit .. or are even still here? Of those how many even have a domain that will ever sell?

Now honestly ask if that book would have changed the results in any significant way? Help a few definitely, yes .. help some lose less (but still lose), yes .. but you're still looking at a very low success rate, particular with the current content.

All that said .. if someone is going to start domaining anyways, then extra information certainly can only help. The real question is .. will they find it? And will it be enough? Or will they think it's enough and actually overspend thinking that they know enough just because they "finished the book"?

More importantly, the final question is .. are you ok with there being a book that while helping people, still will have a significant failure rate?

There is no wrong answer there .. even DNAcademy likely has a far from 100% success rate. It is far and away the best course .. but the rest are really really low, so the bar is very low. The bonus there is that @Michael Cyger and now his assistant (Aline) are also there for follow up and to help answer critical questions in crucial first few months people start up after the course. So it's far more than a static book ... it's a course with some great coaching.


I think one reason some of us are having difficulties with this, is understanding your global vision for it? Is it a static book people read and that's it? Is it a course with a teacher(s) to really enhance what's in the pages? Who are you targeting as readers/students? And why?

I think for a lot of domainers, the ultimate goal is not more domainers to share the current pie .. but in finding and educating end users to grow the pie. Offer branding basics to business owners and start-up entrepreneurs .. help them understand how spending $3000 on a great domain is actually a better investment than a $10 handreg. If we figure out how to get that message out there in force, then that's how we all make real money (check your email btw .. lol)!

I am envisioning a living document. If it takes longer than a week to collect the V1 input, so be it, but if the feedback stops flowing, then the coalition of the willing puts a bow around it and the translators start.

As for the IP, I actually don't care who owns it. I think Sean put the copyright in there, mainly because it is still draft. After all, the King James version of the Bible is copyright free but it still has a definitive text.

As for desired outcome, I would like to get to a place where some industry elders put their heads together to teach the young folks what works so that we can see more focus shoot the moon.

There is no hidden agenda here beyond empowering folks to not fail quite as quickly or as often, but instead to have some folks do well and lift up others. I am not sure why some folks struggle with this concept.

 

[Brands.International]

More scarcity thinking. Pity.

Old school domainer with small pie mindset -- every man for himself. Lame.,

I hoped for better from you.

Thank you for you gentle words about my thinking and mindset - it is pure kindness from you, and although it was rather short answer, imo it answered all points in my post in detail.

True example of professional level of discussion we should be all doing here, and how to exchange the ideas and opinions on this forum. So, thanks again

 

[Rob Monster]

Big update here:

http://demos.epik.com/review/dg/

The updated e-Book with layout is now online, including 4 new chapters of content, including 3 written by yours truly.

A couple questions:

1. The title will get an update since some folks did not like it. How about "Achieving Financial Independence with Domains"?

2. Are there any essential sections missing? Any nominations for content contributors?

And a reminder, any organization that contributes meaningful content gets a free sponsorship. We have some placeholder sponsors on there yet in addition to Epik and @James Rayers' company.

 

[Rob Monster]

I believe that once updated and that all the corrections are made this could serve as a good reference for domaining.

It might be good to put a list of all the chapters that are contained in this book on the main website so that people can know what is covered there before downloading it. ( just an idea)

@Ala Dadan - Great idea from @oldtimer. Please make that happen.

I am actually fine to take the whole book and make it a PDF page-flip, i.e. browse the book. It just increases site dwell time and makes the itself more useful. Please check that.

 

[omnia]

Just noticed... index on RHS of website is missing "Chapter 4 - Typo Domains"

 

[omnia]

Just noticed... index on RHS of website is missing "Chapter 4 - Typo Domains"

Called away, didnt finish post @Ala Dadan

 

[Anne L.]

I actually don't really have a problem with Epik being used as an example when talking about registrars. It's a good registrar .. good prices .. low commissions .. on a value/technical level, I don't have issues recommending Epik. (As long as it's accurate and ethical and not what @bmugford pointed out above .. although in fairness it is a very rough draft .. and honestly .. that shady style of writing isn't much of a surprise when looking at the book as a whole .. partially why I said I think a fresh start would be better to clear out all that questionable stuff)

That being said .. beyond Epik, there needs to be an obvious focus on GoDaddy's aftermarket simply because literally half of all expired domains in the world pass through their aftermarket. Sedo and even BrandBucket etc should be covered as well. I actually like Epik's wholesale aftermarket .. but unfortunately the expiration stream still needs to grow to get more .. with this year's growth, hopefully we'll see more growth there sooner than later.


But all that part of the discussion is missing the point here ...
I think what some are having a hard time understanding is how getting more domainers in the industry helps grow the pie? If you have a pie with 6 people .. nummm nummm nummm .. if you have a pie with 60 people it's indeed nothing but crumbs.

Maybe if we had a better auction marketplace (see that email you missed monday/tuesday .. lol), then more new domainers would at least give us more liquidity.

What's needed is ironically exactly what YOU keep telling us !!! .. Which is indeed to grow the pie ... but the pie isn't domainers .. it's end-user capital ... so we either need more end users .. or we need to better educate and inform end users on how the value of a good $3,000 is actually more profitable to them than if they acquired a $10 handreg. Or how a $50k domain is better for them long term than a $3k domain.


All that said .. sometimes you have an unmentioned detail that really clarifies everything .. lol .. kinda waiting for that ah-ha moment where you clarify what we still don't quite understand where you're going and how this indeed grows the pie ...

More record-breaking domain sales.

More auction events like NamesCon where big sales are made.

More domain brokers/domain sellers who are paid after a sale is made.

BPOs/call centers with domain sellers/domain brokers who will scout for end-users and who will educate them on the benefits of protecting their brand with a domain name.

It helps if the domain- sellers can recommend/sell turn-key solutions or packaged solutions(web dev, hosting, SEO, PPC, etc.) since most decision-makers end-users, domain-buyers who need convincing to buy domains do not have a ready team of web developers yet.

End goal is to have domains that are developed so end-users will get their money's worth and will be encouraged to buy more domains at premium prices.

Who will domain investors sell to if we don't have end-users who benefit from the domains we sell?

Indeed, enlarging the end-users pie is the key.

 

[Anne L.]

Thanks Anne.

Where I see emerging market leaders doing great is in a few areas:

1. Outbound domain selling: Let's face it. Most US domainers are not going to be promoting their expiry streams for which they did not get inbound inquiries. And yet, right now, today, I see hundreds of domains expiring on Epik and elsewhere that a bit of outbound research would surely yield significant sales. Guys like @rohitgoyal have perfected that method and have now started to teach others.

2. Brokerage, Leases and Arbitrage: Related to the above, I have seen countless examples of transactions being done simply because an intrepid entrepreneurs is willing to take the risk by securing the opportunity to market a domain that is perhaps premium but for which the current domain owner is not willing or able to do the spadework.

3. Development: This is where I think the explosion will happen. The tools for developing have become amazing. It is now possible to take a decent domain and bundle it with a move-in ready software solution and sell off a developed site. Epik aims to participate here to a meaningful degree with a range of tools and adapted marketplaces to help folks buy and sell entire digital businesses.

All of this makes the pie bigger.

And when people have windfalls, many of them give back through teaching and philanthropy.

Regards,
Rob

Thanks, too, Rob.

Sales isn't my forte so seeing prime movers address the need is good news for me.

 

[Rob Monster]

Yes, there are a lot of us who buy domains and just wait for inquiries on landers we post online. Yet how many of these landers get inquiries or visits?

It would help if there are domain sales experts who will market our domains and will deduct the payment from the selling price only when the sale is closed.

There are brokers who do this however the domain investor has to leave the domains in their hands, letting them market it for months, signing a contract that the investor can't sell it by himself while the domains are still with the broker.

In this set-up, is there a way for the investor to get an assurance that the domain is indeed being offered to the potential buyers and not just being parked (also just waiting for inquiries)?

Here's why a company focused on earning commissions from CLOSING domain sales (and not merely on broker fees which help them survive without actively marketing the domains) would raise the notch both for investors and end-users alike. They will have more motivation to educate end-users/buyers since their income would come from domain sales and/or after sale of domains (hosting, web dev, etc).

We already have a lot of domains in the hands of domain investors; we have to "breed" end-users to create an equilibrium.

Thanks for envisioning to give (provide) tools that teach end-users and domain investors alike how to develop our domains the easiest way possible (turn-key web solutions) .

Might help if in your signature, you'll include a direct link to a directory of all your projects so we can check the updates every now and then. Thanks.

Thanks for the feedback.

For NameBrokers.com and Epik Marketplace, the typical model is non-exclusive representation as long as the domain comes to Epik registrars.

For migrating domains to platforms, this is really about connecting competencies in a methodical way. There are people with domains. There are people with tools and talent. There are investors who are chasing yield.

I believe there is an opportunity in connecting domains, talent and capital in a methodical way that makes it easy for an investor to manages dozens or hundreds of income-producing sites.