Swat Team Shoots Suspect 68 Times

[dgridley]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/10/01/deputy.shooting.ap/index.html

"You have to understand, he had already shot and killed a deputy, he had already shot and killed a K-9 and he shot and injured another deputy," Judd said by phone Saturday. "Quite frankly, we weren't taking any chances."

In all, 110 rounds of ammo were expended..

"I suspect the only reason 110 rounds was all that was fired was that's all the ammunition they had," Judd said. "We were not going to take any chance of him shooting back."

 

[dgridley]

It only takes one well-placed bullet to bring down or disable a suspect.. in my opinion, there should be a full investigation into the matter.

Granted he shot and murdered a police officer BUT we do not know the circumstances leading up to the incident.. could be the guy was having a psychotic episode. I would still refrain from calling anyone scum until I knew the circumstances.

i guess they kept shooting until he stopped moving....the only reason he was still moving is from the bullets throwing his body around imo....he was a goner pretty quick i would imagine...proly after no more than 4 to 5 bullets in him.

 

[TWM]

IMO the guy got away easy, he should have been killed slowly....scum bags liek this don't deserve to have a life!

Exactly.

And also, 9 SWAT officers shot, so thats about 12 shots per officer, which does not seem overkill at all.

 

[{insert name here}]

-db- why did you remove that post? you made to excellent points that most people would never stop to consider.

 

[-db-]

-db- why did you remove that post? you made to excellent points that most people would never stop to consider.

Well, because I try to stay out of these threads, and fear getting into arguments. :red:

And because I didn't think anybody had seen it yet, Zac.

But here is my post that I deleted...

---------------------

I grow weary from seeing bad news, but not much of it surprises or shocks me anymore.

Police Officers are underpaid, overstressed and often unappreciated. It's no wonder they have such high suicide rates, and occasionally go overboard on duty.

School Teachers are underpaid, overstressed and often unappreciated. It's no wonder so many kids are failing, and our education system is lacking overall.

 

[{insert name here}]

Sorry -db-, but we were all emailed a copy of the post once you posted it

And they are very good points.
more than half the US population "hates" the police, slander and judgment on them all just because there the "fuzz". But who is the first one you call when something goes wrong? Someone breaks into your home, you call the cops. you get pulled over for speeding (breaking the law), and its there fault, there picking on you.

 

[webmasterinfo]

I dont think it was to many bullets.. He had allready killed and would do it again..

Its the criminal choice.. Dont be a criminal dont get shot. Be a criminal get shot..
Easy as thats..

 

[suthra]

good point db, Applicable to any country

 

[kemjika11]

Exactly.

And also, 9 SWAT officers shot, so thats about 12 shots per officer, which does not seem overkill at all.

you really think 9 SWAT officers shotting 12 bullets each is not overkill? thats crazy.

12 shots from one of them would have killed that easily. After all, they weren't killing a cow right?

 

[Web-Viper]

no but if the guy had a flak jacket and was high on anphetamines,cocaine or some other elicit drug (btw he was a drug dealer) then you have no idea what you are getting into. the guy was willing to shoot and wasnt stopping like he was supposed to. he hid over night waiting to ambush more cops but he got caught. the guys in LA who robbed the bank had a shootout with police for hours because they were covered in bullet proof clothing. the police have to make the right judgement in under seconds to save their lives and that of any innocent bistanders. i would have unloaded a clip and reloaded to do it again if my life was in jeapordy. i am willing to bet that all of you who say oh thats overkill would have done the same thing had you been in their place. when you are being faced with life and death in a shootout you unload doin everything you can to protect your own life, human insticts.

 

[dgridley]

I agree.. high on drugs or whatever.. it's still excessive force in my opinion.

I also agree police have it tough and count many of them among my friends and acquaintances, but I also feel many of them would also wonder how so many shots were fired. They could have stopped at 20 shots, 30 shots, 40 shots, or 50 shots and had the same effect.. things clearly got out of hand.

you really think 9 SWAT officers shotting 12 bullets each is not overkill? thats crazy.

12 shots from one of them would have killed that easily. After all, they weren't killing a cow right?

 

[CrazyTech]

Just love the monday morning QB'ing going on in this thread, some of you guys would make any sports forum jealous. I think it's funny how we can sit here and talk about bullet counts of a guy who has already taken out several police force members. Next thing you know, we'll be talking about legislation on how many bullets a cop is "allowed" to use when trying to bring down a suspect. I don't expect another cop to lay down his or her life because it's "too many bullets" or something similarly absurd.

Also released Saturday were autopsy results for the deputy, Vernon Matthew Williams, 39, which showed he had been shot eight times. He was not wearing a protective vest, but shots hit him in his right leg and behind his right ear, among other places.

That does it for me.

However, for those of you questioning the number; are you really simply questioning the number or are you questioning the death of the shooter? That's not meant to offend anyone, but I am curious.

 

[dgridley]

Obviously, I'm questioning the total number of shots fired.. I still say it was an excessive use of force. Certainly at some point in the ensuing firefight, the suspect was injured and disabled severely enough to be safely taken into custody. That many shots fired could only have one objective and couldn't have been safe for the officers in the area either. For whatever reason, they clearly wanted this guy dead.. arrest was apparently not an option.

However, for those of you questioning the number; are you really simply questioning the number or are you questioning the death of the shooter? That's not meant to offend anyone, but I am curious.

 

[Peter]

Obviously, I'm questioning the total number of shots fired.. I still say it was an excessive use of force. Certainly at some point in the ensuing firefight, the suspect was injured and disabled severely enough to be safely taken into custody. That many shots fired could only have one objective and couldn't have been safe for the officers in the area either. For whatever reason, they clearly wanted this guy dead.. arrest was apparently not an option.

I am not being funny dgridley, but consider how long it would take an officer to fire the amount of rounds that were actually fired. Wit modern day weapons you are only talking a matter of seconds. In all honesty you will probably find the officers involved had absolutely no idea that that many bullets were fired. As has been pointed out, would you be willing to say oh no enough has been fired I will not bother firing anymore because enough has been done, If so more fool you especially when confronted with someone so willing to kill others.

 

[jeter4982]

I have to agree with Denver on this one, it is easy to sit back and question the officers when you are not in the actual situation. Yes, 110 shots probably was more than necessary, but you have to remember that police officers are like a family, and if someone shot two of my family members and my dog, I am not sure I would stop until my gun was empty. Plus, as someone else stated, it was not just one officer, but several, meaning that 110 shots with automatic weapons were probably completed within a matter of two or three seconds. My condolences go out to the two police officers, and the K9...

Tom

 

[labrocca]

It was a hail of bullets...fast and furious. Also when that many rounds are being shot you can't tell if the suspect is shooting back or not. You shoot to kill and it's that simple. The guy is dead and that was there intention. I see no problem with that or their actions. To say that 9 professional police swat officers that are HIGHLY trained to deal in situations like this acted improperly is wrong. They acted professionally and exactly how they were trained. They don't take chances when lives are at risk.

It's a waste of tax-payer dollars to investigate this obviously justified shooting. Who cares if 10 bullets or 100 bullets were fired.

As already stated....7-10 rounds per cop is NOTHING...most likely the shooting lasted less than 10 seconds (possibly only 5 even).

As for the revenge factor...so what. I am also pretty sure that when a fellow officer is killed you think that you could be next. That's not revenge..that's survival.

ADDITION: I just went to watch the video. Did you guys realize that the shootout was in deep covered woods? And even though swat is top-notch shooters...they still missed with nearly 1/2 their bullets. Go watch the video...look at those woods. You don't need this suspect to get cover or to hide. He needed to be taken down. Also people talk about how it's residential around the woods and that kids play there. They did the 100% right thing. 10 officers....110 bullets. Seems about right.

 

[DN Tycoon]

68 was WAY to many, at most he should have been stunned and arrested.
Then put in a horrible small prison cell for the rest of his life.

That would be a waste of our tax money, I personally am tired of putting killers behind bars for life and having to pay for their room, meals, weight room, yard and all those things they do not deserve. You kill you get killed that should be the law.