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SnapNames and Moniker Return Domain to Prior Owner after Win

Located in Legal Discussion started by bhartzer, Jul 19, 2008.

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  1. bhartzer

    bhartzer VIP Member Epik.com Staff VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I purchased a domain name at Snapnames on June 26th. I paid for it, the domain was put into my Moniker account. Last night I went into my Moniker account and it's completely gone.

    Moniker put the domain back into the prior owner's name (whois is no longer in my name) and Snapnames sends me an email:

    Do they have the right to yank a domain name and give it back to the prior owner 22 days after I purchased it? I have talked to Snap and apparently they "sold the wrong name" or something like that. WhaaaaaaTT?????

    I am concerned about buying names from SnapNames in the future. How do I know that this won't happen again--and how do I know it won't happen to YOU?
     
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  2. Peter

    Peter Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Personally I would kick up about it however legally I don't think you have a right to the domain as it was not snapnames to sell.

    If it was a mistake by the original owner he should be held to the sale, if it was a snapnames error then they should at least compensate you for the hastle, what would have stopped you arranging a sale in those 22 days for the domain and then it would have been a real mess.

    If you have spent any money on developing the domain I would request a refund for those costs as well.
     
  3. Dave_Z

    Dave_Z Electrifying Guy VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Just answered your question in DNF, Bill. And unfortunately, yes they do, that
    sort of thing can happen to anyone, and no one on earth can guarantee that
    it won't happen again or so.

    One thing they can guarantee, though, is they'll try to correct it, though it is
    not necessarily a win-win situation.

    Peter, Bill bought the expired domain name in an auction that apparently was
    not supposed to be listed. And SnapNames replied they refunded him.

    It's arguably the mistake defense. Not that anyone has to like it, but it's still
    a valid defense.

    BTW, I dealt with this sort of thing in my previous registrar life. Trust me when
    I say I didn't enjoy it one bit, but we had to make a difficult choice.
     
  4. homebuyer

    homebuyer Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Need More Facts

    Was the domain expired when snapnames picked it up?
    If so, then how long had the domain been expired before you won it?
    Was the domain won in a private auction as opposed to an expiring domain auction?
    Where was the domain registered before you won it?
    How did snapnames and moniker get into the previous owners account to transfer it to you?
    Is the pre-auction owner the same one showing in the whois now?
    What is the domain name?

    I'd want to know the answers to these questions before I'd accept anyone's "Whoops" defense.
     
  5. PowerUp

    PowerUp Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    How do we know that it's not Snapnames nor Moniker deciding to keep this name to themselves?
     
  6. homebuyer

    homebuyer Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Name

    What's the domain name? The more valuable the domain, the more effort you should put into analyzing these issues.
     
  7. Kjel

    Kjel Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Let me summarize here what happened with the erroneous sale of a domain name to Bill Hartzer, and the return of that name to the previous registrant.

    A customer recently made a domain name available for sale at SnapNames. The name intended for sale was the .net version of the name; however, an employee mistakenly listed the .com version for sale. That name was auctioned and registered by Mr. Hartzer.

    The previous registrant for the .com name contacted us to let us know of the error. Of course, as he had not authorized the sale of his name, SnapNames reversed the sale, refunded Mr. Hartzer, and restored the .com name’s Whois record to the correct registrant.

    It’s an inconvenience to our customers but at times we are obligated to reverse sales to address legal or other issues. In this instance, however, it was an error on our part. Although SnapNames has handled tens of thousands of domain name sales and has an outstanding record for accuracy and efficiency, such an error is troubling and we are developing safety checks we believe will help prevent similar situations.

    We are sorry for the inconvenience to Mr. Hartzer and the name’s previous registrant and have done everything possible to satisfy the parties involved.

    Kjel Holmberg
    Oversee.net
     
  8. Ronald Regging

    Ronald Regging Ex-President VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    So who actually listed the wrong domain for sale, the original owner or SnapNames?
     
  9. homebuyer

    homebuyer Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Just how were you able to change someone's whois information and give that domain to a 3rd party?
     
  10. Ronald Regging

    Ronald Regging Ex-President VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Moniker allows you to list domains for sale (auction?) on SnapNames. To do this, the domain has to be registered at Moniker, so that when the sale takes place, all of the escrow and transfer process is handled by Moniker once they receive payment from the buyer. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

    This is why I asked who listed the wrong name by mistake, because as far as I was aware, the process to list a name for sale is all done by the owner of said domain.

    If it was the owner's error, than that changes the situation completely IMO.
     
  11. That is the worrisome point to me - I do not keep as close tabs on my domains as I should, admittedly, but if SnapNames and the oversee.net family pulls domains from the wrong account, sells the domain, and is only aware of it 20-some days later when the non-seller brought it to their attention...

    -Allan
     
  12. Dave_Z

    Dave_Z Electrifying Guy VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Already answered:

    Unfortunately these kinds of mistakes do happen. It's one of those situations
    where not everyone comes out happy, but it tries to get resolved fairly.
     
  13. jberryhill

    jberryhill Top Member John Berryhill, Ph.d., Esq. VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Everything?

    Man, the thought of Kjel doing everything he could to satisfy me, just really creeps me out.

    Brrr.....
     
  14. Dave_Z

    Dave_Z Electrifying Guy VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Everything possible, John. Everything possible. :p
     
  15. MJ

    MJ VIP Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Wow.. I'm glad I don't have any names at Moniker :blink: Hehe.. but seriously, it's good the domain owner caught that. It sucks you are out of a domain though but it's good they made it right. You should call them back and ask for a free t-shirt or something for the trouble :D
     
  16. flamewalker

    flamewalker Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Are you saying you are glad there is a digital divide between you and him? :red:
     
  17. MD.

    MD. Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I think some economical compensation for Mr Hartzer could be in order..
     
  18. flamewalker

    flamewalker Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Not really... and I'm sure their terms would absolve them of any monetary damages due to this kind of human mistake. Now, if he didn't get his money back in a timely manner, or it somehow actually harmed him, then I would think there may be a possible reason for an 'apology' of that kind. However the only harm seems to be that he didn't get the domain.
     
  19. nielsencl

    nielsencl Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I agree the situation is unfortunate, and I don't know what the laws are regarding such a case as this, but the buyer and the domain owner should receive something for the stress and bother. That would do a lot to make them feel better about the event. And I think the investment would show the level of commitment and customer service that the company seems to want everyone to believe in.

    I don't know the value if the domain in question, but I think a payment that was between 50%-100% would not only satisfy those affected by this mistake, but also serve as a great PR vehicle to show everyone the customer really does matter. It's times when customers are the most happy that a company has the best chance to impress everyone. Sadly, most of them don't realize that it can be cheaper to spend the money to make the customer satisfied, then to not be willing to fully own up to the mistake and subject themselves to some financial pain to atone.

    And most companies don't realize that if they ask the customer what they feel would compensate them they would find that the response will really be quite reasonable. Treat the customer as your partner and not you competitor and most will make an effort to work with you.
     
  20. jberryhill

    jberryhill Top Member John Berryhill, Ph.d., Esq. VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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  21. Kenny

    Kenny Member Services, NamePros Super Moderator Gold Account VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    :lol:


    :p
     
  22. nielsencl

    nielsencl Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    An arrangment of flowers? Hmm, I'm not sure. Even if they were roses or delivered in a crystal vase I think something that extracts greater pain from the company would be more satisfying.

    No, I think a substantial monetary payment would be more appropriate. I don't think it should be excessive, like the awards we see in many lawsuits these days, but something like I mentioned in line with the value of the transaction.

    A domain that was sold for $1,000 could garner a payment of something like $300-$600 depending if the money was going to the seller or the buyer. The seller will still have their domain and can sell it again, but the buyer is the one that is screwed and should receive greater compensation, in my opinion.
     
  23. Jeffrey

    Jeffrey Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Or Snapnames could give the bothered client a domain such as Oversee.net
     
  24. flamewalker

    flamewalker Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    OK, how about every time you make a mistake, you pay the person you made the mistake with 50% of the amount of the mistake... oh you don't like it now do ya? IMO you suggestion is no better than someone suing mcdonalds for hot coffee and winning millions (on a smaller scale of coarse).

    A free domain reg or maybe entry to a live auction would be more reasonable for such a silly mistake. Actually, since no party was physically or financially harmed, no compensation should be awarded at all.
     
  25. nielsencl

    nielsencl Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I wouldn't like it, any more than I like paying a $20 parking ticket. So I try to not make that mistake any more... That's why it's a good idea for a company to SELF-IMPOSE a policy like this: to discourage the making of mistakes in the future.

    The OP was "harmed" enough to post about this fiasco, and I don't understand why several people seem to think it's no big deal...? I guess because it didn't happen to them yet.

    I don't know the value of the domain in question, and if it wasn't worth much, then perhaps a flower or a hot cup of coffee would be enough to make up for it. But if it was a valuable name, then more would be needed to make up for it.

    Man, is Tom Peters a name that is completely unknown here...? What a company does or does not do when they make a mistake is their business, but if they want to turn a problem they created into a home run, they have to do the right thing by the customer, in my opinion.
     

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