.tv Selling .TV

[SKG]

It is now getting harder and harder to distinguish between premium and nonpremium outside of the obvious. As the resale market grows it will be essential for all those who have posted names for sale at different venues, ie Sedo, etc to openly state the annual registration fee. .TV is a different animal than other extensions. It is attractive yet people are hesitant of high annual costs and costs of course are relative as what may be high for one may not be to another. You make think by posting the annual fee may deter a buyer but in all honesty it will have to be disclosed at somepoint anyhow. In fact, if you own something that should have been marked premium and are paying reg fee your name will stand out and not passed up because somebody thought that must be at least a 1K per year reg.

Remember what a premium is was the perception of .TV corporation. They called many names premium that should have not been and on the flipside they left out many that should have been. If you own something that clearly should have been a premium disclose annual reg fee XX.XX and if you paid premium disclose that as well so you do not get ridiculous lowball offers.

Wishing everyone a successful 2007

 

[gamehouse]

Thanks SKG for the insight. I think you are very much right in saying that as .TV is a different game all together, part reason because of .TV corp differential pricing. One more thing that might help is that if you let any .TV name go for auction at Sedo, they will not feature on the main page under auctions.

Good luck to everyone in everything thats .TV related and more.

GH

 

[MillersCrossing]

Nice idea - but not my way...

If the buyer is a reseller - 99% will have done their homework and get at least a ball park idea of what the renewal fees are, and won't be scared off by being told there is one.

If it is an end user...I name my price based upon my profit margin + 20 year reg fee.......sice I am not looking to sell any of my premiums for less than $25,000.....I will be taking care of the math upfront.....so that when the news does break to the buyer about the premo renewal fee, I can tell them that it has been factored into the overall selling fee.....and they have already paid for 20 years upfront......but that we could negotiate a lower price for less years upfront.....

This gives the buyer a sense of control and fairness over the negotiation process.....

Throwing in that the overall cost is still less than a tenth of the .com also helps soothe th deal!!!

JMO

 

[Domainate.com]

I personally think that Verisign's premium rates on the good names have essentially ruined what would have been the 2nd most popular extension right now otherwise. I think it stunted development, as while other extensions could have some of its top keywords developed upon soon after launch, .tv has been out how long now and still many of the top names are sitting there parked by Verisign.

It's also hurt the secondary market since as SKG put it, buyers have become aware that truly top .tv generics have high registration fees associated with it. I happily mention in my listings of DVD.tv that the reg fee is only $500/yr, but I think a lot of people don't even look at the listing because they assume the reg fee would be $10k/yr or higher. So it's harder than it should be to sell a name like that thanks to Verisign. I think they've done just about everything possible to handicap the extension just to gain a buck, and yet they'd probably have a lot more money without the premium pricing in all the added registration, OR at least REASONABLE premium pricing on those that are far too high.

 

[SKG]

Nice idea - but not my way...

If the buyer is a reseller - 99% will have done their homework and get at least a ball park idea of what the renewal fees are, and won't be scared off by being told there is one.

If it is an end user...I name my price based upon my profit margin + 20 year reg fee.......sice I am not looking to sell any of my premiums for less than $25,000.....I will be taking care of the math upfront.....so that when the news does break to the buyer about the premo renewal fee, I can tell them that it has been factored into the overall selling fee.....and they have already paid for 20 years upfront......but that we could negotiate a lower price for less years upfront.....

This gives the buyer a sense of control and fairness over the negotiation process.....

Throwing in that the overall cost is still less than a tenth of the .com also helps soothe th deal!!!

JMO

Hi James,

Firstly, it should be noted that not all buyers are domainers and those that are there are different degrees to a domainer as well. That being said, assume that the buyer is just that, "a buyer," with no domaining knowledge. It is therefore imperative then to disclose the reg fee so that they are not scared off. First impressions do apply when searching for domains.

In case of the premiums and "taking care of the math upfront," how does the buyer know you have done that? Remember when using Sedo and others you can send a note but often times it has to be reviewed by staff and by that time the buyer is gone because he or she sees a high counter. Members here know alot about .tv and can speculate what a premium fee might be but even so there would still be a large discrepancy.

Full disclosure never hurts a sale unless there is something to hide or you feel you have overpaid

I must say I have started this discussion but have not put reg fees on my for sale tvs yet but I plan to. It will enhance the sale of my nonpremium regs that should have been premium.

And Steve, you are correct in saying that if you did not disclose $500 per year for DVD.tv then many would assume 5K or higher per year for such a reg.

 

[antonis12]

lol. i think you can only reg up to 10 years in advance.

I think that is true of most (all?) gtlds as well.

 

[MillersCrossing]

lol. i think you can only reg up to 10 years in advance.

I think that is true of most (all?) gtlds as well.

didnt know that Antonis..!!

But bottom line, I take the premium issue out of my pricing ....a buyer / end user wants to buy SAX.TV...

I say that my price is 150,000 and that includes 20 years annual registration fees. Not bad when you consider the 1.5 million .com would charge..


If a buyer has the $150,000 at his disposal to consider, then at some point down the line I would say that this 20 years takes care of the annual reg fee for 20 years plus my profit margin, but that there is a premo renewal fee.

For serious buyers - this is a non issue, may be a nuisance - but a non issue....

Maybe in the low xxxx to it is an issue upfront, but for my particular profit requirements - all should be just fine......this is business....plain and simple....

The Verisign premo issue has been spoken about long enough for people to ecide whether they want to complain about the annual renewal fee checks they are writing out to Verisign - or the interest payment checks they are writing out for the million dollar plus .com domain name they have just bought!!

 

[equity78]

Millers are you saying you would renew for 10 years with the price? Meaning Sax.tv for sale for $150,000 with a $500 renewal fee that is paid up front for the next ten years?

IMO I agree SKG you always have to mention the dynamics of .tv domains and state the renewal fees. Many people have had sales that were cancelled when they found out the renewal. One good thing with ENOM no more TRANSFER FEE

 

[dottvfan]

Not sure that would be my strategy as, to me, a domain is just like any other business - if it fails the domain owner is going to want to drop the domain to minimise losses and move on. By paying x years upfront, any future paid reg fees are $ down the drain if the business fails.

I like simple negotiations. This is my price and these are the reasons why I think it is worth it. If the buyer doesn't agree then the onus is on them to show me why I have overvalued my property and to make a counter offer or reject.

I guess the advantage for a seller is that the seller gets to keep the difference between the face renewal fee and the discounted renewal fee for multi year regs?? Otherwise, I can't see how adding to their up front costs and risk is going to get you a better margin on the sale.

p.s Get well soon James - my thoughts are with you.

 

[MillersCrossing]

Not sure that would be my strategy as, to me, a domain is just like any other business - if it fails the domain owner is going to want to drop the domain to minimise losses and move on. By paying x years upfront, any future paid reg fees are $ down the drain if the business fails.

I like simple negotiations. This is my price and these are the reasons why I think it is worth it. If the buyer doesn't agree then the onus is on them to show me why I have overvalued my property and to make a counter offer or reject.

I guess the advantage for a seller is that the seller gets to keep the difference between the face renewal fee and the discounted renewal fee for multi year regs?? Otherwise, I can't see how adding to their up front costs and risk is going to get you a better margin on the sale.

p.s Get well soon James - my thoughts are with you.

THANKS Grant for your thoughts,

I agree - why pay the renewal fees upfront - totally!!!!, so I am basically saying to the buyer - "SHALL WE START AGAIN!!"

But, in the meantime, they have taught themselves a lesson in installmant plans under .TV instead of a one lump sum under .COM.........all this by stating a price upfront taking into account 20 years pricing.....

Two minutes later, 20 years are forgotten and its down to how much lovely jubbly do I see for my investment and they see if they still have a business plan that leaves out all the "I can't believe Verisign can do this" stuff.....
EVERYONE IS SMILING!!

 

[antonis12]

I think the situation that is most applicable to this discussion and the people in this group is:

Sales Value: XX,XXX to XXX,XXX
Renewal: XXX to X,XXX

I think in this case, the renewal is going to be pretty irrelevant to what is, most likely, a corporate buyer. Trust me, a large corp that wants Millers education.tv is not going notice the XXXX renewal fee. These are big sums for us, but not big sums for corporations.

Because of this, I would not tie yourselves into knots when selling to a large corporation and try to explain 20 years forward renewal, etc.

I would just state upfront thatthe domain costs this much (eg. XX,XXX) and you have to pay an annual fee of whatever it is to Verisign. Only if the buyer has a big issue should you then offer to pay the name for X years in advance and you can use that as a way to effectively give a discount on the sale.

If you are selling to a domaineer who is less familiar with .tv, then you will have much more hand-wringing, but so it goes.

So, my 2 cents:

1. full disclosure
2. don't overcomplicate it

 

[MillersCrossing]

I think the situation that is most applicable to this discussion and the people in this group is:

Sales Value: XX,XXX to XXX,XXX
Renewal: XXX to X,XXX

I think in this case, the renewal is going to be pretty irrelevant to what is, most likely, a corporate buyer. Trust me, a large corp that wants Millers education.tv is not going notice the XXXX renewal fee. These are big sums for us, but not big sums for corporations.

Because of this, I would not tie yourselves into knots when selling to a large corporation and try to explain 20 years forward renewal, etc.

I would just state upfront thatthe domain costs this much (eg. XX,XXX) and you have to pay an annual fee of whatever it is to Verisign. Only if the buyer has a big issue should you then offer to pay the name for X years in advance and you can use that as a way to effectively give a discount on the sale.

If you are selling to a domaineer who is less familiar with .tv, then you will have much more hand-wringing, but so it goes.

So, my 2 cents:

1. full disclosure
2. don't overcomplicate it

Correct Antonis - I was referring more to the less familiar of the two.....any corporation will be explained upfront - no hassle/no BS

 

[RPK]

Millers, great thinking out of the box. Not sure if I agree with it, but it is good thinking. Feel Good!

 

[dottvfan]

Suggest thread is deleted.

 

[SKG]

Suggest thread is deleted.

??

 

[dottvfan]

because this thread will be cached by google and Miller's negotiation strategy laid out for all to see.

 

[MillersCrossing]

Suggest thread is deleted.

whats the problem with the thread Grant??

 

[equity78]

There is no problem and it is not being deleted

 

[MillersCrossing]

because this thread will be cached by google and Miller's negotiation strategy laid out for all to see.

DOTTV,

It is like giving someone advice to buy low and sell high.....people will either take it or leave it...but I do like to be thought of as some sort of negotiating guru...you give me way too much credit

Note to Google - Please do not cache this post.......

 

[equity78]

Secondly would really not call that a strategy but more of an opinion how a company will react Nothing more