status-todo Sales Threads and Ignored Users - Policy Clarification

[Coopey]

Agree with it or not, I make use of my 'Ignore List' on vBulletin. I try to add spammy accounts, non-payers, dodgy sellers, those who seem less than reputable and also people I actually want to ignore (like those who post "me too" in every thread and don't contribute anything).

It stops me accidentally buying from someone I wouldn't want to buy off, and it keeps discussion a bit clearer in the case of the "me too"-ers so I think it is a useful feature.

I'm interested in NamePros' policy on the following:

-1-
Say I have a sales thread and someone on my ignore list posts 'Sold', am I obligated to sell to them?
(If this was the case, I'd probably unblock them for the transaction if they were just an annoying poster- business is business after all.)
As I understand it the offer has not been communicated to me and no binding contract has therefore been formed, however this is obviously difficult to prove and the 'world at large' has seen the offer clearly communicated.

-2-
If I include a condition stating "If you're on my blocked list, I can not see your post, so your offer is invalid" would NP consider this a valid clause in any dispute?
As I understand it blocked users don't know they're blocked (unless they try to PM?). How would one prove they were already on a blocked list and the seller was not "pulling a fast one" by blocking them after the sale as they didn't like the price.

I very much doubt I'd ever include such a term, but would appreciate clarification.

I've tried a search and can not see anything relating to this, so thought I'd ask.

S~

 

[DU]

I don't know if there is a Policy but I would say that you can put in the offer/auction that you have the right to refuse a bid to those who don't meet your quality standard:

For example:

New Users - unless they PM you first
People You have Blocked
People with no Feedback
People with negative Feedback
People who were non-payers

There are a number of reasons why you would want to exclude people and I think you should have the right to do so.

As long as you accept the risk that some will find this uncomfortable to bid on a name that you can withdraw it should be ok. I have seen some auctions where bids have been refused.

It's an interesting question, though. I think the important thing is to be up front with your right to refuse - and then fairly prompt in your refusal with a PM explanation. Ask them to remove the bid.

I don't think you need to be too specific in the thread - no need to embarrass anyone. But the unofficial "member of the year" wouldn't do that

I'd be interested in the answers and opinions of the mods.

 

[BillyConnite]

IMO introducing such a condition could cause issues.

As I understand it blocked users don't know they're blocked (unless they try to PM?). How would one prove they were already on a blocked list and the seller was not "pulling a fast one" by blocking them after the sale as they didn't like the price.

If you decide not to sell at some point, this could be taken advantage of, as you realize. I realize admin's can check your ignored list, but there may not be a history for when users were addded etc.

If vB has an action history list or something, so it's possible to check when users were ignored etc this might work. It would be easy to implement one, but may not be something NP is interested in.

As you say in the end business is business. Given your good reputation, if a suspect user wins an auction, i always like to include a pay me first condition for low rep users. Other than that i see no reason not to sell something to someone purely based on their annoyance.

My 2c.

 

[DU]

i always like to include a pay me first condition for low rep users.

If it's an auction that wouldn't work. You want to remove the bid before it wins. If they had non-paid before why would that condition make any difference?

If Namepros would ban users from auctions for confirmed non-payment that would help. I'm not sure on the policy - I imagine non-payment isn't taken lightly by the admins but I don't know that much more than infractions are given. It becomes a challenge in a tit-for-tat world sometimes to know who is in the wrong ... so it seems easier to just allow a poster to prevent people from bidding.

 

[BillyConnite]

You'll receive a trader rating hit if you don't pay. If you receive the domain and don't pay, you'll be banned.

If you are worried about a persons credibility, i'd say you can require that a user have at least X number of positive trader ratings, or if is a new user, require payment first.

There's no perfect way to protect yourself from non-payers.

Generally spammers have next to no trader rating if any. Maybe you can reserve the right not to sell to a member with a trader rating below X? In other words, allowing trust-worthy members with no rating to bid, allowing spammers to bid, but reserving the right not to sell to a spammer? It's pretty much the same as disallowing ignored users to buy, but at least they have a chance?

---------- Post added at 03:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:09 PM ----------

Having said that, one system that might work: Totally disallow an ignored user to even post in a sales thread that has been started by someone ignoring them. This would prevent sellers from "pulling a fast one" if they don't want to sell, and it would prevent the unwanted spammers from bidding in the first place.

You could also make this an option within the user control panel to turn that feature on and off.

 

[Coopey]

Thanks for the input guys. Interesting reads.

Additional thought I've had re: mods confirming to users you're on the seller's ignore list- If I were the (relatively new) buyer and a mod told me this about a long term member like myself, I'd instantly assume that they're getting special treatment as a long-term member.
Not to that would happen around here, but that's how it might appear.
(So I don't think that would be a viable option).

Having said that, one system that might work: Totally disallow an ignored user to even post in a sales thread that has been started by someone ignoring them. This would prevent sellers from "pulling a fast one" if they don't want to sell, and it would prevent the unwanted spammers from bidding in the first place.

You could also make this an option within the user control panel to turn that feature on and off.

A good idea, but doesn't help with my 'annoying user' filter (who might otherwise be an excellent person to trade with).

I know once or twice I've been quite grumpy or snappy with particular people but would have no problem buying from them- I'd be disappointed if I couldn't buy/bid in their thread because I was on their filter.

I already include a condition that I won't take PayPal if your TR is under 10, so I consider that adequate to deter the non-payers.

S~

 

[BillyConnite]

Thanks for the input guys. Interesting reads.

Additional thought I've had re: mods confirming to users you're on the seller's ignore list- If I were the (relatively new) buyer and a mod told me this about a long term member like myself, I'd instantly assume that they're getting special treatment as a long-term member.
Not to that would happen around here, but that's how it might appear.
(So I don't think that would be a viable option).



A good idea, but doesn't help with my 'annoying user' filter (who might othewise be an excellent person to trade with).

I know once or twice I've been quite grumpy or snappy with particular people but would have no problem buying from them- I'd be disappointed if I couldn't buy/bid in their thread because I was on their filter.

I already include a condition that I won't take PayPal if your TR is under 10, so I consider that adequate to deter the non-payers.

S~

Hi Coopey,

As an extension to my latest suggestion then, perhaps NamePros could include the option to block ignored users from posting in sales threads where posts are lower than X amount also (Say lower than 20 posts, 90% of our spammers here i'm sure would have less than 20 posts, and most legitimate users below 20 posts probably don't want to engage in the marketplace yet anyway, given their low post count and unknown reputation (I know i was like that). Hell you could even allow users to specify not only whether or not to use this option, but what minimum number of posts an ignored user requires to post in your sales threads, or minimum reputation points, or perhaps a combination of reputation points and posts calculated into some magical minimum points number lol

Probably the reputation system is a nice way to include ignored users, if a users reputation is above X, i'm sure looking through spammers accounts that have been disabled it'd be possible to find an average number of reputation points they had (probably just above 0).

Again just a suggestion. I think that including such a MOD in vB could be useful, but again it's not perfect as you say, it will still weed out potential customers, maybe there are other conditions that could be taken into account someone else can think of. Or maybe NP wouldn't be willing to put this kind of MOD into effect anyway.

-Rhett.

 

[NetOctave]

-1-
Say I have a sales thread and someone on my ignore list posts 'Sold', am I obligated to sell to them?

When you start an auction you can just post all the users in your ignore list and mention that their bids are not valid ... ?

This would be simple to do.

 

[DU]

When you start an auction you can just post all the users in your ignore list and mention that their bids are not valid ... ?

This would be simple to do.

That's embarrassing to them.

I think the best solution is to send a PM to the individual when you add them to your ignore list stating that you will not do business with them.

Then during the auction / sale say you have the right to refuse.

If they bid then simply remind them of your previous PM (if you keep it resend) and add a comment to the thread stating that the prior bid was refused.

If things go really belly up - you just break out the original PM. I think that's good enough and been done before.

 

[NPQueen]

I already include a condition that I won't take PayPal if your TR is under 10, so I consider that adequate to deter the non-payers.

S~

Users can set their own conditions on the sale as Coopey has been doing. As long as you are still within the rules of the Marketplace everything should be fine.

~Rachel

 

[jaydub]

I usually put...

"I reserve the right to not do business with anyone for any reason"
in my sales threads.

There are a few people where "business is business" doesn't work for me. I don't want their money.