ResellerClub Screwed Someone I Know

[Christian Taylor]

Hi guys,

So my friend started up a registrar and hosting site with ResellerClub using their basic $25 package. His friend transferred a domain, and after a week or so my friend decided that ResellerClub wasn't suited for him and asked for a refund. They refunded his $25, and they also locked the person's domain who transferred to them. They refuse to unlock it and won't give an auth code to transfer. Isn't this illegal? Is there no ICANN regulation to stop stuff like this?

 

[namesilo]

One of our customers referred us to this thread, so let me please add how things work just to avoid confusion within the community:

Please note that what I write below applies to registries/TLDs that are overseen and regulated by ICANN. Many ccTLDs have their own rules, but the information below applies to registries/registrars that must comply with ICANN rules.

The 60-day lock from prior transfer between registrars (inter-registrar) is enforced solely by the losing registrar. As had been previously noted, registrars are permitted specific reasons in which they may reject an outbound transfer request to a different registrar. Among the list of allowable rejection reasons is that it is within 60-days of prior transfer. In our experience, all registrars enforce this rule for several reasons. For us, I can say that the major reason is related to fraud prevention, although there are others. In some situations, such as a sale from a known Seller within our system to a Buyer wanting to transfer to a different registrar, we are happy to bypass the rejection, and have done so many times, so I can assure you all that registrars have this ability. To further illustrate, here is how a transfer between registrars works chronologically:

1. The gaining registrar submits a transfer request to the registry. Along with the domain name to be transferred, the gaining registrar also must send the correct EPP auth code.
2. The registry then "notifies" the losing registrar of the transfer request.
3. The losing registrar can then do any of the following:
   • Do nothing. If nothing is done, the transfer to the gaining registrar completes when the registry automatically releases it after 5-6 days.
   • Reject the transfer for any of the reasons permitted by ICANN within 5 days. Again, this includes the right to reject based upon prior transfer within 60 days. This list of allowable rejection reasons also includes the new rule governing intra-registrar transfers (most commonly a change of Registrant) within 60 days implemented in December 2016.
   • Explicitly accept the transfer. This is technically referred to as an "ACK" in EPP land. If the losing registrar ACKs the transfer, it completes immediately. This is what you see from registrars like us that permit expediting outgoing transfers without waiting the 5-6 days for automatic registry release.

The 60-day lock from the date of registration is enforced by registries, and is not something registrars can bypass.

Hope this helps as there is a lot of information out there that is either inaccurate, confusing or incomplete, and different registrars have different rules thereby adding to the confusion since most people on this forum keep domains with multiple registrars and have therefore experienced different things.

 

[usernamex]

No if you JUST transferred the name it has a 60 day lock as @Avtar629 already said. There is a difference in after transfer lock and Change of Owner lock - the Change of Owner you can opt out, the transfer you cannot.

PS the transfer must have been paid for separately since RC would have deducted any fees out before refund, that is how they operate, and rightly so

 

[Christian Taylor]

As @Jurgen Wolf already stated ANOMALY

You have two situations going so keep them straight to reduce the confusion
1] you yourself personally transferred a domain from NameCheap to Dynadot, then waited two weeks, then transferred again to Uniregistry. Which is the anomaly that should not have been allowed to occur with standard transfer rules

If you renew at current registrar then transfer within 45 days you typically do not get an additional year, did each of the transfers add an additional year or did you waste a year as well?

2] friend A Adam transferred a name into friend B Brian's Reseller Club account, and was paid then Brian changed his mind and got remaining refund from Reseller Club. Now you claim Adams domain is locked from TRANSFER, which is AS IT SHOULD BE for 60 days. Now you state the name is locked from any changes at all, then they should lift them, but seriously, it looks very fishy what you guys are doing so they likely froze the domain to make sure they aren't dealing with a stolen domain.

So realistically Brian is the one who screwed Adam over by cancelling his Reseller account and then Adam trying to transfer out, it looks suspicious.

Each of the registrars added a year for the transfer. My friend has posted an update regarding the original topic.

 

[usernamex]

OK so to be clear, @Matthew Allen - you got a ResellerClub account, your under 18 friend then got one as well, then you asked for a refund. And then he asked for Auth Codes to transfer out again. Red flags everywhere. Seriously, you have Reseller Terms of Service you agreed to in addition to the standard customer agreements, the whole thing looks fishy.

 

[Matthew Allen]

Oh golly gosh, no wonder you all got flagged. Do you have your own credit cards or just use paypal?

I'm curious now if it is a requirement to be 18 to be a customer or just that these were affiliate/reseller accounts so that made legal age a factor

They never said to my friend or myself that we could not operate our accounts because of our age. They did however say that he would have to send a photocopy of the parents ID and an authorization form.

 

[Christian Taylor]

I am a bit confused with all the talk in this thread. But I do have a question. Did both the renewals, from NameCheap to Dynadot, and from Dynadot to Uniregistry, get 1 year added to the expiry date for the said domain transferred?

Yes. At Namecheap it expired in 2017. I transferred to Dynadot and my registration was up to 2018. Went to Uniregistry and it was 2019. I renewed it there for another year simply to tame my OCD and make it an even 2020. I will say that I never relieved final email confirmation from Uniregistry saying the transfer completed like the last domain I transferred to them. I double checked though and it's definitely with Uniregistry now. Is there a possibility they could undo the transfer if they find out? I hope that's not the case.

 

[Dynadot]

I just read their NEW IRT Policy (IRTP) as it written:
3.7 may deny...
3.8 must deny...

That is how we read it as well. Registrars can deny for this reason, but are not required to. At Dynadot, we leave it up to the Central Registries. @Christian Taylor, your transfer was successful because VeriSign did not place a serverHold on it.

 

[namesilo]

Section 6 of the new IRTP doesn't require that behaviour from registries.
That's why Verisign (.com/.net) and Neustar (.biz) don't enforce this lock, it is abnormal de jure.

Right, it may not be explicitly in the IRTP, but it is for the Registry Agreements that registries have with ICANN.

For example, for .com:

https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/appendix-07-2012-12-07-en

"Transfer (other than ICANN-approved bulk transfer). Transfers under Part A of the ICANN Policy on Transfer of Registrations between Registrars may not occur during the Add Grace Period or at any other time within the first 60 days after the initial registration. Enforcement is the responsibility of the Registrar sponsoring the domain name registration and is enforced by the SRS."

For .biz:

https://www.icann.org/resources/unthemed-pages/biz-appx-07-html-2013-09-13-en

"Transfer (other than ICANN-approved bulk transfer). Transfers under the Registry-Registrar Agreement may not occur during the Add Grace Period or at any other time within the first 60 days after the initial registration. Enforcement is the responsibility of the Registrar sponsoring the domain name registration and is currently enforced by the SRS."

The, "...and is (currently) enforced by the SRS" means that the registry enforces the prevention of transfer during the first 60 days after initial domain registration.

So many rules - would be nice to have more standardization across all TLDs

 

[WhoaDomain.com]

60 day lock?

 

[Christian Taylor]

60 day lock?

It's possible. By default, the 60 day transfer is NOT enabled. The client has the option to enable it. I'll have to ask and see.

 

[todaygold]

As already stated, the 60 day lock after transferring a domain is not optional, it is mandatory after transferring a domain from one registrar to another. Second, to clarify, the domain transfer was paid for separately and was not refunded, correct?

 

[Christian Taylor]

It depends on TLD.
Some ccTLDs you may transfer at any time.
For gTLDs it is mandatory by ICANN.

I did it with my .com domain.

 

[Christian Taylor]

For this .com, was it originally registered at Uniregistry, you transferred to Dynadot and then transfered back to Uniregistry?

It was originally with Namecheap. I transferred to Dynadot and left it there for 2 weeks, then transferred to Uniregistry.

 

[Christian Taylor]

As already stated, the 60 day lock after transferring a domain is not optional, it is mandatory after transferring a domain from one registrar to another. Second, to clarify, the domain transfer was paid for separately and was not refunded, correct?

I clarified that the transfer was deducted from the refund that my friend who ran the host received. Let me be clear that my friend placed the order using his panel on behalf of the client, and the client paid him in cash. By locked, I mean that the domain is inactive and isn't functioning. This is worse than a transfer lock.

 

[Jurgen Wolf]

Actual rules are here: https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/transfer-policy-2016-06-01-en

3.7 ...The Registrar of Record may deny a transfer request only in the following specific instances:

3.7.5 The transfer was requested within 60 days of the creation date as shown in the registry Whois record for the domain name.

3.7.6 A domain name is within 60 days (or a lesser period to be determined) after being transferred (apart from being transferred back to the original Registrar in cases where both Registrars so agree and/or where a decision in the dispute resolution process so directs). "Transferred" shall only mean that an inter-registrar transfer has occurred in accordance with the procedures of this policy.

So 60 days lock is NOT mandatory but recommended by ICANN.

 

[Name Trader]

I'm not talking about the lock here. I'm talking about what happened. Don't you think it would have been wise to check there were currently no domains in your (sub-)accounts before requesting a refund?

 

[usernamex]

I'd like someone to explain how I was able to successfully transfer my domain out from @Dynadot sooner than 60 days.

As @Jurgen Wolf already stated ANOMALY

You have two situations going so keep them straight to reduce the confusion
1] you yourself personally transferred a domain from NameCheap to Dynadot, then waited two weeks, then transferred again to Uniregistry. Which is the anomaly that should not have been allowed to occur with standard transfer rules

If you renew at current registrar then transfer within 45 days you typically do not get an additional year, did each of the transfers add an additional year or did you waste a year as well?

2] friend A Adam transferred a name into friend B Brian's Reseller Club account, and was paid then Brian changed his mind and got remaining refund from Reseller Club. Now you claim Adams domain is locked from TRANSFER, which is AS IT SHOULD BE for 60 days. Now you state the name is locked from any changes at all, then they should lift them, but seriously, it looks very fishy what you guys are doing so they likely froze the domain to make sure they aren't dealing with a stolen domain.

So realistically Brian is the one who screwed Adam over by cancelling his Reseller account and then Adam trying to transfer out, it looks suspicious.

 

[Jurgen Wolf]

@usernamex

I also thought that it is abnormal but actually it is allowed...
And explained by me starting from:
https://www.namepros.com/threads/resellerclub-screwed-someone-i-know.1002934/#post-6010714

 

[Matthew Allen]

Let me introduce myself as the person who held the original ResellerClub account. My friend had his account locked out.
To get back into his account, he must
-Pay a $50 account suspension fee
-Give verification from a parent (since [omitted] is under 18)
-Give PayPal verification
-Give a notarized document saying the parent takes all responsibility for the account
IN ADDITION TO
Myself paying the $50 fee to unlock my account and waiting 90 days for the transfer lock to expire.

He told me that he transferred it from NC, to me, and then did not transfer it to his own reseller account with RC, but just changed owners to himself (if I recall what he said correctly). He's about given up on that domain.

 

[Matthew Allen]

In 2016 RC suspended one of my domains due to "received abuses regarding SPAM activity"...
But it was just parked at ParkingCrew where email-monetization was enabled and that's all.
So be ready to various surprises from PDR (RC)...

Thus the reason why I withdrew the remaining balance from my account and requested deletion (which, by the way, had not happened yet)

 

[Matthew Allen]

@usernamex No the auth codes and him transferring it happened before I withdrew the balance. Honestly I wish this thread was never created. He's just gonna get another domain and start over.

 

[Christian Taylor]

@usernamex No the auth codes and him transferring it happened before I withdrew the balance. Honestly I wish this thread was never created. He's just gonna get another domain and start over.

To respect Matthew, I think the discussion can stop here. I know that I personally learned multiple lessons from this thread:

1. READ terms of service!
2. Understand what you're getting into
3. There are several types of "locks" on domains
4. I apparently pulled off a ghetto transfer and went against ICANN regulations

 

[Matthew Allen]

Don't forget number 5. Pretty much every registrar requires its customers to be at least 18 years old.

Well myself, my friend, and @Christian Taylor are all under 18 and we all own domains. So...

 

[Jurgen Wolf]

Verisign (Registry) doesn't reject these transfers within 60 days since reg or previous transfer.
Only registrars are responsible to do them or not (accordingly to actual ICANN policy).
You may delete and forget 4.

 

[usernamex]

Oh golly gosh, no wonder you all got flagged. Do you have your own credit cards or just use paypal?

I'm curious now if it is a requirement to be 18 to be a customer or just that these were affiliate/reseller accounts so that made legal age a factor

OK so IN THEORY, you have a slim chance of maybe recovering the name BACK to NameCheap and only NameCheap, if you can get ResellerClub and NameCheap to agree

Edit: Same wording on the newer policy - thx @Jurgen Wolf
https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/transfer-policy-2016-06-01-en
3.7.6 A domain name is within 60 days (or a lesser period to be determined) after being transferred (apart from being transferred back to the original Registrar in cases where both Registrars so agree and/or where a decision in the dispute resolution process so directs). "Transferred" shall only mean that an inter-registrar transfer has occurred in accordance with the procedures of this policy.