discuss Reported sales in new gTLDs - oh well, we are still comparing oranges to apples!

[Brands.International]

I think when new gTLDs sales are reported, we are in many cases truly comparing oranges to apples.
There are 2 main problems:

A) Ignorance of renewal fees: if you go to reliable source like namebio.com. you can filter for example aftermarket sales of .store extension. When you sort it by price, you see that highest reported sale so far is coin / store for 26 705 USD, and second one is aloyoga / store for 2408 USD. So far so good, this is clear, one is for 26 705 USD and one is for 2408 USD, no big deal.

But actually, there is a huge difference: afaik coin/store has premium renewal around 26k each year, while aloyoga / store has normal standard renewal for .store, which is between 7-45 at most registrars.

So, what is the actual selling price of coin / store which should be reported to reflect this huge difference?
If you report this simply is 26k, you ignore the fact that it is 26k every year. If it is registered for next 10 years, it is basically 260k sale. In another words, it is similar to 260k sale of .com, where payment terms are agreed as devided into 10 yearly payments of 26k.

But you do not know about that, because sales are reported, but renewal are not.

B) What about existing registrations?: recently someone asked me if it is true that such nice extension like .properties does not sell well. I asked the guy where this information comes from??? He told me, he filtered ".properties" extension in namebio.com, and there are only 3 sales reported, with keywords Pune, Sex and Foreclosure, sold for small prices of 995, 150 and 110. He thus concluded that this extension does not sell well, and there is no interest if only 3 such records are there in namebio.

I told him that (of course) reality of this extension is very very different:
a) There are more then 13000 domain names registered in this extension
b) All reasonable names are registered, almost nothing is left available (I have analysed this extensively)
c) Most good names are continuosly registered since General Availability, since Jun 2014
d) And the best part: many of those names are registered even when they carry higher premium renewals. Examples: keyword "dream" costs around 900/year, "usa" the same, "lasvegas" is for 120/year, etc.

So remember this: sources like namebio.com report aftermarket sales of new gTLDs, when someone is selling their names via venues like Sedo, Flippa or Afernic. But the fact that registrants are holding their names, and are paying even high renewals each year for them, and that there are hundreds or thousands of such names in given extension, is simply not reported in namebio (as those are not aftermarket sales).

In other words : at the moment, if you do not know anything about new gTLDs, and you will just filter namebio, you will get information that name 'foreclosure / properties sold for 110 in 2015 (and reason for that is that someone tried to flip it - not quite succesfully - in first year after acquisition, and this is recorded), but you will completely miss information about dozens/hundreds of names like dream/properties, which are registered from the very beginning and for which the registrants are paying anything between 120- 900 / year.

So such filtering alone will simply not give you a real status of that particular extension.

As a consequence of this over reliance on namebio, you can get this type of beautiful appraisal of your new gTLD name, check it here. Logic here goes like this: I am going to appraise your .capital domain name...I will have a quick look at namebio...ooh, I see only 7 reported aftermarket sales, so ..ehm...your name has no value..

I honestly find this rudiculous. This is the new peak of oversimplification of new gTLDs, but this appraisal made me to write this post, so it migh be useful after all.

So I think we are mixing oranges with apples and also bananas in many instances, particularly when we ignore fact that renewal fees play major role when it comes to new gTLDs.

Your opinions are welcome

 

[wormfood]

any good websites on newhomesforsale.otherTLD?
.com .net .org .info .biz .co..none being used. wonder why not. I only saw .com.au and .co.uk.
but hey, yeah, I'd love to pay 1k for the hacked-up version
the dot is randomly placed after the word "for"..looks so good. yep.


anyway
it's very telling that you won't share your sales
domains are sometimes developed into websites after they're bought (shocking, I know), so there should be some sales that people are willing to share..if the domains were developed and are unlikely to drop any time soon.

I still can see also many great drops which I think should be reserved, but registries have not reserved them .. and this is great opportunity for domain investors to still get their hands on some good names, and almost for free.

Although in 2018 it is getting more and more difficult, as registries are also much improving in this game

so this is not a sustainble business model. it's just scrounging for scraps. I do that too, but I don't go around saying it's a great investment or use of your time to pick over the leftovers.

 

[Brands.International]

any good websites on newhomesforsale.otherTLD?
.com .net .org .info .biz .co..none being used. wonder why not. I only saw .com.au and .co.uk.
but hey, yeah, I'd love to pay 1k for the hacked-up version
the dot is randomly placed after the word "for"..looks so good. yep.


anyway
it's very telling that you won't share your sales
domains are sometimes developed into websites after they're bought (shocking, I know), so there should be some sales that people are willing to share..if the domains were developed and are unlikely to drop any time soon.



so this is not a sustainble business model. it's just scrounging for scraps. I do that too, but I don't go around saying it's a great investment or use of your time to pick over the leftovers.

Whatever you say friend, just ... do not try to pick another selection of "bad" domains from my portfolio and write them here, as a danger is your activity can result in another quick 1k offer for me

Honestly this makes me laught anytime I remember it

But seriously, I am not sharing my sales because I respect very much privacy of buyers. I believe no buyer like to have details of their transaction all over the internet for everyone to see. The fact that many domain investors are doing it is great for another domain investors (we would be totally in dark without it) but it is not great for end users...

 

[wormfood]

but how many .properties have websites? vs how many .com have website
isn't that more important than number registered

 

[Brands.International]

That's the beautiful picture @creataweb

 

[wormfood]

"guys, there are only 3 reported sales in this extension on the major sales-reporting website that gathers information from big marketplaces. might not be such a wise investment. speculate at your own risk.
haha look at that, sex.properties is one of them..what a joke. and there are no four figure sales."

"no, no, you are missing a huge point. there are some registrants paying registries hundreds of dollars in renewal fees for the premium keywords (I can't say if it's mostly domainers or businesses but anyway..) so that shows people are willing to pay up for these new TLDs."

"then why doesn't it show in the reported sales?"

"statistical anomaly. and new TLD sellers like privacy. and stuff."

 

[wwwweb]

I bought into both .com, and gtlds since day 1.

This is not an easy road, you needed to invest heavy, and have a lot to pay for rewnals. So you simply weren’t renting them, only to give the back to the registry after having paid hundreds without results which many have done.

you talk got talk, you have your own site, with hundreds of gtlds listed, let’s talk about your sales apples to apples... convince us from your own data, you been at this for a while, let’s hear the results.

 

[Brands.International]

? Seems like you're trying to inflate the actual selling price, since it's not really looking that good when people use Namebio. If a new gtld sold for $26,000, it sold for $26,000, not $260,000

Yes exactly I am trying to show here, that when registry sells something like coin / store, it is not enough to report it as 26k sale without any further information.

If that would be .com, we can report it like that, because we can basically neglect those 10 USD / year renewal fees. But if the renewal is each year 26k, this is very important information, as if the buyer will hold this domain for 10 years, they will pay 260k during that period.

And this applies for thousands and thousands of new gTLD domain names. When you go through source like namebio, you can not tell if the sale reported there consist of 1 big initial payment and small yearly renewal fees which you can neglect, or if it consist of big initial payment which will repeat every year...this is why I think we are comparing apples to oranges in so many cases.

 

[JB Lions]

I think it would be comparing sanity with insanity. It is actually 26k a year renewal? That's just nuts. Still not counting it in the sale tho, can't imagine others either.

 

[Brands.International]

I bought into both .com, and gtlds since day 1.

This is not an easy road, you needed to invest heavy, and have a lot to pay for rewnals. So you simply weren’t renting them, only to give the back to the registry after having paid hundreds without results which many have done.

you talk got talk, you have your own site, with hundreds of gtlds listed, let’s talk about your sales apples to apples... convince us from your own data, you been at this for a while, let’s hear the results.

I am interested to talk here about how to report new gTLD sales more precisely, I am not here to speak (or boast) about my personal stuff, it's my private matter

 

[Brands.International]

I think it would be comparing sanity with insanity. It is actually 26k a year renewal? That's just nuts. Still not counting it in the sale tho, can't imagine others either.

Yes, that is the renewal. So counting it or not, it is there, and we should take that into consideration to get the true picture..

Btw, easiest way how to check renewal fees for new gTLDs (with 95% accuracy, there as some discrepancies I know about) is www.mrdomain.com .. insert a name there in the search box, & it will show you renewal fee.

But it is not only name like coin / store.. we have tons of names, for example above mentioned dream / properties with 900 renewal. And here again, if that name would be reported as sale in namebio (which is not), it would be reported there as 900 sale. And the fact that buyer needs to pay 900 each year would not be mentioned there...

 

[wormfood]

how many buyers even know the renewal fee before purchasing?

 

[wwwweb]

how many buyers even know the renewal fee before purchasing?

Most don’t, they think it is a one time charge, not annual renwal.

 

[wwwweb]

I am interested to talk here about how to report new gTLD sales more precisely, I am not here to speak (or boast) about my personal stuff, it's my private matter

I know your struggling, and putting money out of your own pocket, especially when all those .properties come due for renewal.

I got in early enough to grab enough good keywords that have sustained the burn. Also got to cherry picks donuts reserve release a few years back. Others that you are encouraging modern day are going to get slaughtered, there is just not enough good inventory available at reg fee that they can turnover quickly enough.

You have to be realistic, Inquiries are way down, and YES the registry is reserving gje good drops, if you dispute that fact you really know nothing about this program. I don’t blame them for reserving them, they understand they need to retain that premium revenue for themselves, and not domajners, so you understand how these newbies are getting taken behind the woodshed one by one.

You keep hyping this program, but you fail to yield any sales results. Given you have an abuandance if WordKeyword.Extension shows me you don’t really understand the ones that actually do sell, and the rest are just 99 cent promos that renew at full price/

It’s a numbers game, and modern times you can’t sustain the renewal for the amount of inventory you need to make a well diversified portfolio that has constant sell thru. 99 percent are setup for failure, I can see your ALL IN, you have invested well over $10k so you need this to work.

At the end of the day it is what it is, and end user demand is just not there. I really wish it was different, but it is what it is.

 

[Brands.International]

I know your struggling, and putting money out of your own pocket, especially when all those .properties come due for renewal.

I got in early enough to grab enough good keywords that have sustained the burn. Also got to cherry picks donuts reserve release a few years back. Others that you are encouraging modern day are going to get slaughtered, there is just not enough good inventory available at reg fee that they can turnover quickly enough.

You have to be realistic, Inquiries are way down, and YES the registry is reserving gje good drops, if you dispute that fact you really know nothing about this program. I don’t blame them for reserving them, they understand they need to retain that premium revenue for themselves, and not domajners, so you understand how these newbies are getting taken behind the woodshed one by one.

You keep hyping this program, but you fail to yield any sales results. Given you have an abuandance if WordKeyword.Extension shows me you don’t really understand the ones that actually do sell, and the rest are just 99 cent promos that renew at full price/

It’s a numbers game, and modern times you can’t sustain the renewal for the amount of inventory you need to make a well diversified portfolio that has constant sell thru. 99 percent are setup for failure, I can see your ALL IN, you have invested well over $10k so you need this to work.

At the end of the day it is what it is, and end user demand is just not there. I really wish it was different, but it is what it is.

You are making lot of personal assumptions in your posts, and many of them are incorrect. I am sincerely trying, but I honestly can not follow your logic. This tread is about how we report sales in new gTLDs. It is not about my (btw fantastic) portfolio of new gTLDs.

I told you few months ago in another discusssion : if you criticise my choice of names (which you did), at least show me your names and we can criticise each other My names are at www.brands.international, and I do not hide anything ... where are your names, @wwwweb ? You stated you got in early and grabbed good keywords..so you can please show them to us?

 

[wwwweb]

Thanks a a lot Bob. I honestly only got that understanding recently when I saw the appraisal for .capital name mentioned in my initial post. Also the recent new idea of lifetime registration model promoted by @robepik sparked this as well. If all names were sold in the model of lifetime registration, we would be comparing apples to apples, but this is not a case now.

And the more I think about it, the more I feel that those statistical data many are using (like average sale price of new gTLD name vs average sale price of .com) are saying pretty distorted picture about what is going on in new gTLD space. If we get those higher renewal into consideration, the new gTLD space might be much stronger then we initially though

Because a .com goes from $9 to $9.50 renewal is wishful thinking to consider an end user in making the call for a website address for their company, over a 50 cent price increase to a renewal. GTLD's will follow suit with price increases also, the registries haven't exactly been for the domainers either.

 

[JB Lions]

It's always going to be what you paid for it, across the board. You can sell it within the year so those renewals won't even come into play. Then you wanted to go with 10 year renewal and add it to the purchase price instead of 1, because 1 would be lower. I think people see what you're trying to do here.

 

[kriss05]

Until/unless ngtld registries stop reserving drops, there is no sense to report any good ngtld sales. ngtlds registries are being driven by domainers. They likely to monitor public sales reports and reserve drops similar to those sold for good money. As it was told many times they don't want domainers to own good inventory so everyone reporting high value sales simply helps ngtld registries to compete against domainers.

I'm sure that many sales don't get reported because of that, among other reasons.

Lack of reported sales results in losing confidence among domainers which is natural. Less confidence, less registrations. If ngtld registries want domainers to bring them cashflow from crappy registrations and at the same time profit from their own inventory of reserved premium drops, then it looks like poor business model.

That said, until/unless they stop reserving premium drops, discussing ngtld sales would be of little relevance. I guess no serious ngtld investor would help ngtld registries to compete against domainers by sharing their sales.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Until/unless ngtld registries stop reserving drops

I'm not saying you are wrong, but can you share what evidence you have that this is actually happening I'm not asking for specific names, just how you know and what the extensions were.

I know that most of the registries reserved premium domain names initially. But I take it that you are not talking about that, but rather names that had not been designated originally as premium, someone bought them,and then if they later drop, they now become premium?

I certainly know that it does not always happen. For example in the .space extension there are a number of reserved premiums at different price tiers (like the air.space that recently sold for $17k was a top tier name). I happened to notice a .space domain name that had sold previously, public record, for $$$. I noticed it dropped and it was a niche I like, so I picked it up (first year) for a discounted regular first year registration. Now maybe they just missed that one.

I also know cases of words that have become high value (new developments in science hardly known in 2014). I let one of these drop after holding for one year, and I noticed it became available again just at standard fee (and I notice someone else hand registered it a few days after I let it drop).

So can you share which extensions you know for sure it happens with, and how you know. Thanks.

I do know that .co have begun doing that as names drop, and it has happened here and there in a few other country code I think. I'm not asking about that, just the ngTLDs.

Bob

 

[namemarket]

You are making lot of personal assumptions in your posts, and many of them are incorrect. I am sincerely trying, but I honestly can not follow your logic. This tread is about how we report sales in new gTLDs. It is not about my (btw fantastic) portfolio of new gTLDs. I told you few months ago in another discusssion : if you criticise my choice of names (which you did), at least show me your names and we can criticise each other My names are at www.brands.international, and I do not hide anything ... where are your names, @wwwweb ? You stated you got in early and grabbed good keywords..so you can please show them to us?

I looked at your portfolio and there are numerous quality words however the new-tld market would need to skyrocket in end-user popularity for your names to sell well, imo. For example, who could be an end-user for a name like Gay.Coach which seems weird and awkward, when combined with Coach extension.

P.S. I never heard of the extension before.

 

[namemarket]

...I do not think there is anything weird when it comes to name like Gay/Coach. There are thousands of suitable end users for it......

But why would a Gay person need a coach? Teaching them to do what? Baseball.coach tennis.coach investor coach etc I can understand but what purpose would be a gay coach other than teaching someone how to be gay or better at being gay, I don't get it.

 

[namemarket]

If you Google your question there are over100 million results, so there must be reasons (and the top couple of pages at least are relevant, it seems at a glance)

I see things at top like a Porn Coach and the Gay 49ers Football Coach (not surprised it is in San Francisco) but that's about the openly gay female coach herself and not on the coaching job, or the gay woman needing a coach herself.

 

[Brands.International]

Look I know zero about this topic and don't plan to continue a discussion on this topic. I just was pointing out that from a domain perspective one thing I look at is to Google the term and see how popular the phrase is. When I did that with the words in your question, there were huge number of hits. That tells me that the match is not at all ridiculous for actual use.

Here are a few links that may, or may not, be helpful if you are genuinely wanting to establish that there is a real field related to the term. The second link points out that the entire field of personal life coaches is about $2 billion a year (not just gay, in total).

http://www.thegaycoaches.com/

http://wellfellow.com/gay-life-coaches/

I am in no way endorsing anything in any of the links. Just saying it looks to me like there is a potential domain market.

Let's get this thread back to general arguments on the topic. Picking through ANYONE's holdings makes no contribution in my opinion.

Defnitely so, this is exactly what my analysis showed, there is definitely a market for this name, everyone can Google thay in few sec. The fact that @namemarket seems little perplexed by it does not mean that the market does not exists

 

[Brands.International]

lol..and
newhomesfor.sale
newhousesfor.sale
unfriendly.life
xmas.loans
blockchain.kitchen

jesus

What is this @wormfood , genuinely trying to pick the worst names from my domain portolio, or what? Lol

 

[Brands.International]

I actually like newhomesfor.sale a lot which I believe has very good end-user potential.

Thanks @namemarket I like it as well! And even got nice offer for it few weeks after sale (for higher XX XXX) of homes / forsale was reported. But I rejected it, I am waiting for something better. I think @wormfood should twist his head in disbelief on some others of my names, as I am sure it is possible to find some worse names in my portfolio then this

 

[Brands.International]

Not possible and not at all surprised it had offers already because of the excellent match with extension. It's extremely good new-tld name and one I would like to own myself but likely way out of my price range.

P.S. Would you take 1k on a fast sale?

@namemarket I am not much into fast sales, but please make an offer on a landing page via undeveloped and we can take it from there. Renewal fee is standard for .sale extension.

@wormfood ..what to say ..thank you for potential sale! From the list of my worst names to immediate 1k offer at Namepros from fellow domain investor for gTLD name...who would think of that ....this is so-called unexpected twist