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discuss Reported sales in new gTLDs - oh well, we are still comparing oranges to apples!

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MarekTop Member
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I think when new gTLDs sales are reported, we are in many cases truly comparing oranges to apples.
There are 2 main problems:

A) Ignorance of renewal fees: if you go to reliable source like namebio.com. you can filter for example aftermarket sales of .store extension. When you sort it by price, you see that highest reported sale so far is coin / store for 26 705 USD, and second one is aloyoga / store for 2408 USD. So far so good, this is clear, one is for 26 705 USD and one is for 2408 USD, no big deal.

But actually, there is a huge difference: afaik coin/store has premium renewal around 26k each year, while aloyoga / store has normal standard renewal for .store, which is between 7-45 at most registrars.

So, what is the actual selling price of coin / store which should be reported to reflect this huge difference?
If you report this simply is 26k, you ignore the fact that it is 26k every year. If it is registered for next 10 years, it is basically 260k sale. In another words, it is similar to 260k sale of .com, where payment terms are agreed as devided into 10 yearly payments of 26k.

But you do not know about that, because sales are reported, but renewal are not.

B) What about existing registrations?: recently someone asked me if it is true that such nice extension like .properties does not sell well. I asked the guy where this information comes from??? He told me, he filtered ".properties" extension in namebio.com, and there are only 3 sales reported, with keywords Pune, Sex and Foreclosure, sold for small prices of 995, 150 and 110. He thus concluded that this extension does not sell well, and there is no interest if only 3 such records are there in namebio.

I told him that (of course) reality of this extension is very very different:
a) There are more then 13000 domain names registered in this extension
b) All reasonable names are registered, almost nothing is left available (I have analysed this extensively)
c) Most good names are continuosly registered since General Availability, since Jun 2014
d) And the best part: many of those names are registered even when they carry higher premium renewals. Examples: keyword "dream" costs around 900/year, "usa" the same, "lasvegas" is for 120/year, etc.

So remember this: sources like namebio.com report aftermarket sales of new gTLDs, when someone is selling their names via venues like Sedo, Flippa or Afernic. But the fact that registrants are holding their names, and are paying even high renewals each year for them, and that there are hundreds or thousands of such names in given extension, is simply not reported in namebio (as those are not aftermarket sales).

In other words : at the moment, if you do not know anything about new gTLDs, and you will just filter namebio, you will get information that name 'foreclosure / properties sold for 110 in 2015 (and reason for that is that someone tried to flip it - not quite succesfully - in first year after acquisition, and this is recorded), but you will completely miss information about dozens/hundreds of names like dream/properties, which are registered from the very beginning and for which the registrants are paying anything between 120- 900 / year.

So such filtering alone will simply not give you a real status of that particular extension.

As a consequence of this over reliance on namebio, you can get this type of beautiful appraisal of your new gTLD name, check it here. Logic here goes like this: I am going to appraise your .capital domain name...I will have a quick look at namebio...ooh, I see only 7 reported aftermarket sales, so ..ehm...your name has no value..

I honestly find this rudiculous. This is the new peak of oversimplification of new gTLDs, but this appraisal made me to write this post, so it migh be useful after all.

So I think we are mixing oranges with apples and also bananas in many instances, particularly when we ignore fact that renewal fees play major role when it comes to new gTLDs.

Your opinions are welcome :)
 
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I'm not saying you are wrong, but can you share what evidence you have that this is actually happening I'm not asking for specific names, just how you know and what the extensions were.

Many high quality ngtlds end up being reserved by the registries instead of getting available for registration after they drop. Everyone can see it by monitoring dropping domains. Regarding extensions, for example, Donuts does it on everyday basis.

I know that most of the registries reserved premium domain names initially. But I take it that you are not talking about that, but rather names that had not been designated originally as premium, someone bought them,and then if they later drop, they now become premium?

I'm talking about ngtlds, both premium and standard priced, being once registered, then dropped and reserved by ngtld registries.

So can you share which extensions you know for sure it happens with, and how you know. Thanks.

It can be almost anything. .life, .tech, .land etc etc etc
 
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Thank you very much for the detailed answer @kriss05. When you say reserved do you mean reserved in the technical sense or in the sense of converted to premium, or both?

Does anyone here know of a free and efficient way to track names about to drop in a specific extension? Like if I want to know all of the .loan extension domains that will drop in the next week, is there a free way to do it? Or even better, does someone highlight the best ones in the way is done for .com and some country codes?

ps Something else that would be useful would be a list of those ngTLD registries which have no premium renewal rates. Has anyone compiled such a list? Ideally also ones that do not reserve/change to premium drops.

Thanks again.

Bob
 
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You are making lot of personal assumptions in your posts, and many of them are incorrect. I am sincerely trying, but I honestly can not follow your logic. This tread is about how we report sales in new gTLDs. It is not about my (btw fantastic) portfolio of new gTLDs. I told you few months ago in another discusssion : if you criticise my choice of names (which you did), at least show me your names and we can criticise each other :) My names are at www.brands.international, and I do not hide anything ... where are your names, @wwwweb ? You stated you got in early and grabbed good keywords..so you can please show them to us?

I looked at your portfolio and there are numerous quality words however the new-tld market would need to skyrocket in end-user popularity for your names to sell well, imo. For example, who could be an end-user for a name like Gay.Coach which seems weird and awkward, when combined with Coach extension.

P.S. I never heard of the extension before.
 
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I looked at your portfolio and there are numerous quality words however the new-tld market would need to skyrocket in end-user popularity for your names to sell well, imo. For example, who could be an end-user for a name like Gay.Coach which seems weird and awkward, when combined with Coach extension.

P.S. I never heard of the extension before.
Thank you about your kind words about my porftolio. As for new gTLD market, this is rising each year, and there is no reason to anticipate otherwise. I am testing it on my 1k portfolio of new gTLD names personally and know it from my own experience, it is not what I have read from someone somewhere on the forum :)

I do not think there is anything weird when it comes to name like Gay/Coach. There are thousands of suitable end users for it. Google will show more if one search for these 2 words. I checked some of their websites, they usually operate on horrible names like JohnBlackSanFranciscoGayCoach.com .. this short name will be authoritative upgrade for them. It immediatelly shows that someone made some serious effort when it comes to domain name and website. It has standard renewal for .coach, and imo can esily sell at least for 2-5k ( I predict the end user will be probably individual, not some organisation). So it make sense as an investment, at least for me.

I have not heard about .coach extension either until recently, but who cares...the logic goes that if you are a professional coach, and learn about .coach extension, it will be probably attractive for you.
 
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I have been thinking lately about why the .com/.net and ngTLD community seem to so totally misunderstand and not accept each other (with obvious exceptions of course!).

I am going to write on this in (too much :xf.wink:) length in the futue, but here is a snippet related to the .coach extension discussion.

In the legacy world the extension is super important. The same word is worth hugely different amounts if the extension is .com vs .info for example, even though both are legacy.

In the legacy world the match with extension is not important really. Like many brand on a .com even though they are not commercial so in a sense it is a mismatch. The ..com has value because it is sort of an entry to a valuable domain name. It is like gold being a monetary related commodity standard. It really is not so much related to its actual value as a commodity (although it does have that) but more it is accepted as the standard.

In the new extension world the extension really does not matter much but with ngTLDs the match matters for everything. The question is not whether coach is a gook extension or not, or even how popular it is, but is it a good extension to match with the word.

This is all obvious, and I know you know it very well @lolwarrior :xf.wink: but I think some who comment on the ngTLD threads who have never invested in them or tried to sell them have not clearly realized this fundamental difference. There are other differences which my longer post will deal with.

Bob

ps Here is a nice real world site using the .coach extension.
https://www.tailored.coach/

And another one:
http://www.sweetspot.coach/

I would not actually have immediately thought of either as a first idea match with coach, but when you delve into how each brand themselves, the fit is almost perfect.

ps disclosure I hold zero .coach domain names. This discussion actually prompted me to see if any naming/branding/marketing/domains etc. ones were available, but alas they are all gone :xf.frown:
 
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...I do not think there is anything weird when it comes to name like Gay/Coach. There are thousands of suitable end users for it......

But why would a Gay person need a coach? Teaching them to do what? Baseball.coach tennis.coach investor coach etc I can understand but what purpose would be a gay coach other than teaching someone how to be gay or better at being gay, I don't get it.
 
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But why would a Gay person need a coach? Teaching them to do what?

If you Google your question there are over100 million results, so there must be reasons (and the top couple of pages at least are relevant, it seems at a glance)
 
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But why would a Gay person need a coach? Teaching them to do what? Baseball.coach tennis.coach investor coach etc I can understand but what purpose would be a gay coach other than teaching someone how to be gay or better at being gay, I don't get it.
lol..and
newhomesfor.sale
newhousesfor.sale
unfriendly.life
xmas.loans
blockchain.kitchen

jesus
 
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If you Google your question there are over100 million results, so there must be reasons (and the top couple of pages at least are relevant, it seems at a glance)

I see things at top like a Porn Coach and the Gay 49ers Football Coach (not surprised it is in San Francisco) but that's about the openly gay female coach herself and not on the coaching job, or the gay woman needing a coach herself.
 
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I have been thinking lately about why the .com/.net and ngTLD community seem to so totally misunderstand and not accept each other (with obvious exceptions of course!).

I am going to write on this in (too much :xf.wink:) length in the futue, but here is a snippet related to the .coach extension discussion.

In the legacy world the extension is super important. The same word is worth hugely different amounts if the extension is .com vs .info for example, even though both are legacy.

In the legacy world the match with extension is not important really. Like many brand on a .com even though they are not commercial so in a sense it is a mismatch. The ..com has value because it is sort of an entry to a valuable domain name. It is like gold being a monetary related commodity standard. It really is not so much related to its actual value as a commodity (although it does have that) but more it is accepted as the standard.

In the new extension world the extension really does not matter much but with ngTLDs the match matters for everything. The question is not whether coach is a gook extension or not, or even how popular it is, but is it a good extension to match with the word.

This is all obvious, and I know you know it very well @lolwarrior :xf.wink: but I think some who comment on the ngTLD threads who have never invested in them or tried to sell them have not clearly realized this fundamental difference. There are other differences which my longer post will deal with.

Bob

ps Here is a nice real world site using the .coach extension.
https://www.tailored.coach/

And another one:
http://www.sweetspot.coach/

I would not actually have immediately thought of either as a first idea match with coach, but when you delve into how each brand themselves, the fit is almost perfect.

ps disclosure I hold zero .coach domain names. This discussion actually prompted me to see if any naming/branding/marketing/domains etc. ones were available, but alas they are all gone :xf.frown:
@Bob Hawkes this is very spot on. People here are endlessly asking questions like "how .solutions sells" or "is .store better then .shop" or "should I invest in .live or .online"? and hundreds of other threads like that.

Totally ignoring the fact that the most important factor for value of the new gTLD domain names is a semantic relationship between keyword and extension (in simpler language: whether the combo makes sense)

And then some another domainer (usually with 0 new gTLDs) goes on appraisal threads with answers like "I have checked namebio and ther there only 7 sales reported in this or that extension, so no value"...and I am thinking, reading it, that sometime such free advice is not usually the best :)
 
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I see things at top like a Porn Coach and the Gay 49ers Football Coach (not surprised it is in San Francisco) but that's about the openly gay coach herself and not on the coaching job, or the gay woman needing a coach herself.

Look I know zero about this topic and don't plan to continue a discussion on this topic. I just was pointing out that from a domain perspective one thing I look at is to Google the term and see how popular the phrase is. When I did that with the words in your question, there were huge number of hits. That tells me that the match is not at all ridiculous for actual use.

Here are a few links that may, or may not, be helpful if you are genuinely wanting to establish that there is a real field related to the term. The second link points out that the entire field of personal life coaches is about $2 billion a year (not just gay, in total).

http://www.thegaycoaches.com/

http://wellfellow.com/gay-life-coaches/

I am in no way endorsing anything in any of the links. Just saying it looks to me like there is a potential domain market.

Let's get this thread back to general arguments on the topic. Picking through ANYONE's holdings makes no contribution in my opinion.
 
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Look I know zero about this topic and don't plan to continue a discussion on this topic. I just was pointing out that from a domain perspective one thing I look at is to Google the term and see how popular the phrase is. When I did that with the words in your question, there were huge number of hits. That tells me that the match is not at all ridiculous for actual use.

Here are a few links that may, or may not, be helpful if you are genuinely wanting to establish that there is a real field related to the term. The second link points out that the entire field of personal life coaches is about $2 billion a year (not just gay, in total).

http://www.thegaycoaches.com/

http://wellfellow.com/gay-life-coaches/

I am in no way endorsing anything in any of the links. Just saying it looks to me like there is a potential domain market.

Let's get this thread back to general arguments on the topic. Picking through ANYONE's holdings makes no contribution in my opinion.
Defnitely so, this is exactly what my analysis showed, there is definitely a market for this name, everyone can Google thay in few sec. The fact that @namemarket seems little perplexed by it does not mean that the market does not exists :)
 
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lol..and
newhomesfor.sale
newhousesfor.sale
unfriendly.life
xmas.loans
blockchain.kitchen

jesus
What is this @wormfood , genuinely trying to pick the worst names from my domain portolio, or what? Lol :)
 
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....Picking through ANYONE's holdings makes no contribution in my opinion.

I was not necessarily picking on the domain it was only a more or less random example about it being best if the name goes well with the extension as far as end-user actual use and value is concerned.
 
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Here is a question actually related to the thread @lolwarrior

If there is a ngTLD domain name already registered by someone else, how can I readily find what the renewal rate is on that?

Like for example new (.) earth (a nice name!) sold for $18,800 this week according to the DNjournal weekly report. How can I see what the renewal fee is for this great domain if I wanted to do an analysis like the one you start the thread with, say a 10 year cost.

Thanks.

Bob
 
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What is this @wormfood , genuinely trying to pick the worst names from my domain portolio, or what? Lol :)

I actually like newhomesfor.sale a lot which I believe has very good end-user potential and valuation. It's one of your best names not on a worst list. That name can be very attractive to a builder, developer or Realtor.
 
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I actually like newhomesfor.sale a lot which I believe has very good end-user potential.
Thanks @namemarket I like it as well! And even got nice offer for it few weeks after sale (for higher XX XXX) of homes / forsale was reported. But I rejected it, I am waiting for something better. I think @wormfood should twist his head in disbelief on some others of my names, as I am sure it is possible to find some worse names in my portfolio then this :)
 
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Ok but back on topic, lets kindly stop discussing (fabulous) names my porfolio, is that would be possible, lol :)
 
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Ok but back on topic, lets kindly stop discussing (fabulous) names my porfolio, is that would be possible, lol :)

Not possible and not at all surprised it had offers already because of the excellent match with extension. It's extremely good new-tld name and one I would like to own myself but likely way out of my price range.

P.S. Would you take 1k on a fast sale (assuming renewal fee is low)? offer good for 1 hr.
 
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Here is a question actually related to the thread @lolwarrior

If there is a ngTLD domain name already registered by someone else, how can I readily find what the renewal rate is on that?

Like for example new (.) earth (a nice name!) sold for $18,800 this week according to the DNjournal weekly report. How can I see what the renewal fee is for this great domain if I wanted to do an analysis like the one you start the thread with, say a 10 year cost.

Thanks.

Bob
That is a very good question. So far I use 2 main methods:

a) go to www.mrdomain.com, and insert the name in search box. It will show you renewal fee. This has 95% of accuracy, but it is not 100% accurate, because for example I have some names in my portfolio which it reports very incorrectly (it says they have USD 10 000/year renewal, while I pay USD 5/year for them. Not sure how such gross innacuracy can be there, but it is, while it is still the most accurate tool I know atm.

b) to exclude those 5% innacuracies from a) - start transfer to you registrar (but do not pay for it) and see what it wil charge for a year. This can again differ very much between registrars, but you will know for sure what YOUR registrar plans to charge for a particular name.

:)
 
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Not possible and not at all surprised it had offers already because of the excellent match with extension. It's extremely good new-tld name and one I would like to own myself but likely way out of my price range.

P.S. Would you take 1k on a fast sale?
@namemarket I am not much into fast sales, but please make an offer on a landing page via undeveloped and we can take it from there. Renewal fee is standard for .sale extension.

@wormfood ..what to say ..thank you for potential sale! From the list of my worst names to immediate 1k offer at Namepros from fellow domain investor for gTLD name...who would think of that ....this is so-called unexpected twist :)
 
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New gTLDs have no value.
How you can talk about thier value if only few of them have value as "short" alternatives?
.com, .net, .org, .info etc can be used with any keyword, but new gTLDs just with very limited ones.
You mentioned .life and .properties, but they can be used just with very specific keywords.
 
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New gTLDs have no value.
How you can talk about thier value if only few of them have value as "short" alternatives?
.com, .net, .org, .info etc can be used with any keyword, but new gTLDs just with very limited ones.
You mentioned .life and .properties, but they can be used just with very specific keywords.
.Life and .Properties can be indeed used only with few specific keywords - new gTLD investors call such extensions "narrow" or "niche" extensions. That does not mean they do not have any value, it means there is only specific set of names (keywords) which makes good sense. That makes such names even more valuable, and it is great if you (as domain investor) can get them for standard renewal.

There are new gTLD extensions like .xyz, which are very broad - you can put almost any keyword in front of .xyz, and it still makes sense. Such new gTLD extensions are called "broad"..they have value as well.

There is also bunch of extensions which are somewhere in the middle - many keywords will make sense, but not such broad set as in case of .xyz. In this group we have extensions like .online or .vip. They also have a value, if you choose right keyword.
 
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Many high quality ngtlds end up being reserved by the registries instead of getting available for registration after they drop. Everyone can see it by monitoring dropping domains. Regarding extensions, for example, Donuts does it on everyday basis.



I'm talking about ngtlds, both premium and standard priced, being once registered, then dropped and reserved by ngtld registries.



It can be almost anything. .life, .tech, .land etc etc etc
I agree with @kriss05 that many of good names get reserved once they drop. But that should not be such a big problem for us, as on the other side, I still can see also many great drops which I think should be reserved, but registries have not reserved them .. and this is great opportunity for domain investors to still get their hands on some good names, and almost for free.

Although in 2018 it is getting more and more difficult, as registries are also much improving in this game :)
 
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any good websites on newhomesforsale.otherTLD?
.com .net .org .info .biz .co..none being used. wonder why not. I only saw .com.au and .co.uk.
but hey, yeah, I'd love to pay 1k for the hacked-up version O_o
the dot is randomly placed after the word "for"..looks so good. yep.


anyway
it's very telling that you won't share your sales :xf.laugh:
domains are sometimes developed into websites after they're bought (shocking, I know), so there should be some sales that people are willing to share..if the domains were developed and are unlikely to drop any time soon.


I still can see also many great drops which I think should be reserved, but registries have not reserved them .. and this is great opportunity for domain investors to still get their hands on some good names, and almost for free.

Although in 2018 it is getting more and more difficult, as registries are also much improving in this game :)
so this is not a sustainble business model. it's just scrounging for scraps. I do that too, but I don't go around saying it's a great investment or use of your time to pick over the leftovers.
 
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