RentACoder nightmare

[Zeeble]

A project of mine went into arbitration in May this year after the coder had made insufficient progress.

It dragged on for absolutely months. I was forfeited twice, and twice a senior arbitrator admitted that a mistake had been made and that the arbitration should be reopened.

RentACoder says in it's contract that if a dispute arises, they test the deliverables to decide what percentage of the project had been completed.
During a period of 5 months, no testing on the deliverables had taken place and Rafeek Kulkarni (the arbitrator) had not even got the point of finalising what the deliverables should be. I was disguisted.

Then, about 1 week ago I had computer problems. My computer went bust and it took three days to fix during which time I was required to respond to the arbitration. I responded, but as it turned out I was a few hours late in responding.

RentACoder immediately used this as an excuse to have me forfeit the arbitration for a breach of the contract, which they claimed would delay the arbitration (the contract says that you have 3 days to reply). I had no way of notifying RentACoder of the problems.
All of the money was sent to the coder and I didn't get a single penny back even though the coder had completed only a small amount.

What really annoyed me was the fact that RentACoder would not be flexible at all in terms of my lateness, they said that it was against the contract and therefore I had forfeited. However, I had responded on Thursday Sep 14, 2006 6:03:25 PM Rafeek then responded on Friday Sep 15, 2006 9:30:59 AM 15 hours later! Yet they have the audacity to say that I held the arbitration up.
At one point during the arbitration it actually took Rafeek more than 7 days to reply to a comment made, yet I wasn't allowed an extensions of less than a day due to unforseen circumstances thus loosing me over $300.

To sum up:
An arbitration with NO PROGRESS lasting 5 months.
A loss of $300 due to a slight delay which was explained.
Numerous mistakes on behalf of RentACoder (self admitted)
Arbitrators taking more than 7 days to reply.
Copy and paste answers with no real understanding of the situation.

If you want to avoid all of the above, DO NOT USE RENTACODER.

I have reported them to BBB and SquareTrade, although I doubt I will get any money back. I just wanted to make people beware that their arbitration system is useless and wastes a lot of time.

RentACoder actually said that my arbitration lasted for a record amount of time, and at one point Ian Ipolitto had to step in to say that Rafeek had forfeited me wrongly and to reopen the arbitration.

 

[AlexBlom]

*withdraws his product from RAC*

Bloody shocking.

 

[smithkarl]

I totally agree that RentACoder is a nightmare, and the Arbitrage THING is waste of time and energy.

When I was giving arbitrage I was so frustrated that I just deleted my account ... open one at scriptlance.com it is free and the best!

Elance.com is not free but another great one.

Karl

 

[Legal]

Colin Behr (a.k.a Zeeble),

That was quite a response. The logic is so thin, that it's a better rebuttal to what you've written above, than anything else that could be added.

Back to the point: The exception you're complaining about in a huff on this thread, was already given to you. You omitted that important fact when you posted here, to gain their sympathy. Had you told them the truth, they would have been questioning you and your motives, rather than giving you sympathy. You did this to unfairly damage the reputation of Rent a Coder. Doing this is a crime. You are going to be held accountable for that omission, as well as all the others.

RAC

SmithKarl,

You've made a negative claim about the arbitration process on Rent a Coder. And yet you won't identify yourself.

How do we know that you simply aren't a competitor that is taking free, anonomous potshots (especially since you are promoting competitors in your postings)? How do we know you did not lose arbitration fairly and simply have "sour grapes"?

I challenge you to post your Rent a Coder profile and/or id here, and once you do, I pledge that the arbitration details URL will be posted on this board for all to see.

Humans do make mistakes. So if you were really wronged, then RAC will apologize to you formally on this forum and correct the mistake. On the other hand, if you are not being completely truthful, then you need to agree to apologize for your untrue statements and retract them publicly on this board. There's nothing for you to lose if you're being truthful...right SmithKarl?

The only good reason to decline this, would be if you are being untruthful, SmithKarl. I am waiting for you to post your information so this can happen. You can also email the information to the facilitator at RAC and this process will move forward.

RAC

 

[Zeeble]

Colin Behr (a.k.a Zeeble),

That was quite a response. The logic is so thin, that it's a better rebuttal to what you've written above, than anything else that could be added.

Back to the point: The exception you're complaining about in a huff on this thread, was already given to you. You omitted that important fact when you posted here, to gain their sympathy. Had you told them the truth, they would have been questioning you and your motives, rather than giving you sympathy. You did this to unfairly damage the reputation of Rent a Coder. Doing this is a crime. You are going to be held accountable for that omission, as well as all the others.

RAC

SmithKarl,

You've made a negative claim about the arbitration process on Rent a Coder. And yet you won't identify yourself.

How do we know that you simply aren't a competitor that is taking free, anonomous potshots (especially since you are promoting competitors in your postings)? How do we know you did not lose arbitration fairly and simply have "sour grapes"?

I challenge you to post your Rent a Coder profile and/or id here, and once you do, I pledge that the arbitration details URL will be posted on this board for all to see.

Humans do make mistakes. So if you were really wronged, then RAC will apologize to you formally on this forum and correct the mistake. On the other hand, if you are not being completely truthful, then you need to agree to apologize for your untrue statements and retract them publicly on this board. There's nothing for you to lose if you're being truthful...right SmithKarl?

The only good reason to decline this, would be if you are being untruthful, SmithKarl. I am waiting for you to post your information so this can happen. You can also email the information to the facilitator at RAC and this process will move forward.

RAC

You talk about others identifying themselves, but who are you?

All the facts are here to see...........!

As I have said to you before, I welcome any letters from you solicitor as I have done nothing wrong. You can threaten me as often as you like, however I will still continue to fight my case.

I would also like to point out that you have been very much unwilling to release the arbitration text to me, which in the UK actually contravenes the data protection act as it is data being held concerning myself, and therefore I have a right to view it.

You have not even responded to my post properly, as you have not addressed the issue that I have raised. Simply fobbed it off.

Again, during the whole arbitration, why were the deliverables NOT TESTED?!!!!!!!!! Will you please answer that.

What about the self admitted mistakes made by you?

Please post the full arbitration as it would be seen by anyone (free of comments) so that people can judge the situation for themselves.

 

[touchring]

Well, i just got something to say - it takes software project management skills to work on RAC, so far, i've not encountered any serious problems with RAC after 80 project.

Some tips i like to share:

1. Make sure you award the project to people with at least 5 ratings (preferably 10, but not less than 9.6). The best jobs are done by coders with at least 30 ratings and having an average rating of at least 9.6.

2. Do not accept any bids, however low, if the coder does not have rating or does not meet point 1.

3. Do not award a project immediately after a formal bid is made. First, clarify the details of the project, and ask the coder to provide a detailed proposal on what he will deliver. If the coder refuses to share more info, he is probably a difficult person to deal with - look for another guy. Once you have sorted out the details, update the bid request and only then, confirm the project.

4. Do not be afraid to ask for arbitration the moment you smell a rat - if coder is not consistent in his reports, or keeps on giving excuses like, "sorry, i was away on the weekend" or "my computer is spoilt", etc, the moment the dateline has passed and no deliverable has been made, ask for arbitration to cancel the project.

 

[ChrisChris]

Just with point 4, the escrow service wont cancel the project soley for that reason.. i learnt that the hard way

 

[touchring]

Just with point 4, the escrow service wont cancel the project soley for that reason.. i learnt that the hard way

I had several projects cancelled because of no delivery (means no executable uploaded) when the dateline is up.

For this reason, i tend to put a "usual" delivery timeline (no one delivers on the usual timeline, even if you engage professional companies to do the job) so that if the coder is trying to "play delay game" i can cancel the project promptly.

In fact, i think buyers are at the upperhand because of this reason. However, this can be subject to abuse and coders should also beware of this.

 

[ChrisChris]

You mustve gotten lucky there

When I used GetAFreelancer.com the guy went 6 months over and I couldnt cancel it. Their way of it 'taking too long' is if you send him an email (with a CC to them) and he doesnt reply within I think it was 48 hours. This obviously wasnt very effective because they can see they got the CC and they always reply.

I only ended up getting the money back on the condition that I didn't leave bad feedback (he organised this with the site). I accepted and never left feedback.

 

[touchring]

You mustve gotten lucky there

When I used GetAFreelancer.com the guy went 6 months over and I couldnt cancel it. Their way of it 'taking too long' is if you send him an email (with a CC to them) and he doesnt reply within I think it was 48 hours. This obviously wasnt very effective because they can see they got the CC and they always reply.

I only ended up getting the money back on the condition that I didn't leave bad feedback (he organised this with the site). I accepted and never left feedback.

Do you mean GAF or RAC? These are 2 different sites. Waiting 6 mths is a dangerous thing to do, because by that, you implicitly imply you are willing to wait. The best is to immediately ask for cancellation 2 or 3 days after the dateline has expired. This way, there is no excuse.

 

[lilgee]

RentACoder i never trusted. People told me so much how bad there business over on it is. A friend got scammed over on RentACoder.

 

[TakeReal.com]

RentACoder i never trusted. People told me so much how bad there business over on it is. A friend got scammed over on RentACoder.

And I am going complete my 790th project. Via RentACoder.com of course.
In opposite to "People" and "a friend" - I am real person. My profile at RAC.

 

[Legal]

Lilgee,

You said: "RentACoder i never trusted. People told me so much how bad there business over on it is. A friend got scammed over on RentACoder."
---------------------------

I am a Rent a Coder admin. If your friendly truly got scammed because of something that Rent a Coder did, then not only will I apologize publicly to him and you on this board, but RAC will pay your friend back...even if the other party has been paid.

On the other hand, if you're not providing accurate information (for example, if your friend did not get scammed, or get scammed becuase he/she broke the rules), then you owe Rent a Coder and everyone on this board an apology for misrepresenting what occurred.

Please give his screen name and the arbitration and we'll start by posting the entire arbitration publicy on this board so the good people here can have all the information. If you're telling the truth, you should have no objection to this course of action. So Ilgee, please do so, so we can do this.

Rod Smith
RAC admin

Colin Behr,

You said:
>>You talk about others identifying themselves, but who are you?

As I said before I work for Rent a Coder. It's not relevant in any way beyond that what my name is. But it is Rod Smith.

>>All the facts are here to see...........! As I have said to you before, I welcome any letters from you solicitor as I have done nothing wrong. You can threaten me as often as you like, however I will still continue to fight my case.

I'm amazed at your confidence, but I will take you at your word Colin. Since you are so confident, then you should have no problem providing me with your current address so that what you described above can happen...right Colin? Please send it to nospam<at> rentacoder<dot>com.

By the way, our UK solicitor actually already sent you an official letter regarding the deliberate and malicious inaccuracies and defamation you've presented on this thread. But it was returned as "person has moved". So Colin, please back up your public show of confidence by emailing me your current address.

On the other hand Colin, if what you said was just a bluff, then you are about to be called on it. If you don't send me your current address, we'll be hiring a UK investigator to get that address. Your contract says that the loser in the court case must pay for all costs of the winner...and bluffing means that you would be the loser.

So I'm waiting on your address Colin.

Rod Smith
RAC Admin

 

[Zeeble]

Lilgee,

You said: "RentACoder i never trusted. People told me so much how bad there business over on it is. A friend got scammed over on RentACoder."
---------------------------

I am a Rent a Coder admin. If your friendly truly got scammed because of something that Rent a Coder did, then not only will I apologize publicly to him and you on this board, but RAC will pay your friend back...even if the other party has been paid.

On the other hand, if you're not providing accurate information (for example, if your friend did not get scammed, or get scammed becuase he/she broke the rules), then you owe Rent a Coder and everyone on this board an apology for misrepresenting what occurred.

Please give his screen name and the arbitration and we'll start by posting the entire arbitration publicy on this board so the good people here can have all the information. If you're telling the truth, you should have no objection to this course of action. So Ilgee, please do so, so we can do this.

Rod Smith
RAC admin

Colin Behr,

You said:
>>You talk about others identifying themselves, but who are you?

As I said before I work for Rent a Coder. It's not relevant in any way beyond that what my name is. But it is Rod Smith.

>>All the facts are here to see...........! As I have said to you before, I welcome any letters from you solicitor as I have done nothing wrong. You can threaten me as often as you like, however I will still continue to fight my case.

I'm amazed at your confidence, but I will take you at your word Colin. Since you are so confident, then you should have no problem providing me with your current address so that what you described above can happen...right Colin? Please send it to nospam<at> rentacoder<dot>com.

By the way, our UK solicitor actually already sent you an official letter regarding the deliberate and malicious inaccuracies and defamation you've presented on this thread. But it was returned as "person has moved". So Colin, please back up your public show of confidence by emailing me your current address.

On the other hand Colin, if what you said was just a bluff, then you are about to be called on it. If you don't send me your current address, we'll be hiring a UK investigator to get that address. Your contract says that the loser in the court case must pay for all costs of the winner...and bluffing means that you would be the loser.

So I'm waiting on your address Colin.

Rod Smith
RAC Admin

Email sent with my new address.

When did you send that letter as I did pick up some mail from my old address as early as 3 weeks ago.

I am certainly not bluffing and I am still awaiting an email from you containing all information that you have about the arbitrations that I have been involved in. It is a legal requirement in the UK for you to share information with me that you hold about me so please send it. This is now at least the 4th time that I have asked, perhaps you will be able to deal with it as no-one else had the "authority" to send me my details.

As I say, I await your letter with full confidence.

Moreover I am totally disgusted again at how you treat people.

Thank you,
Colin Behr

 

[acronym007]

RAC threatens to sue people in a public forum? Wow, I can tell you Rod Smith (RAC Representative) you are doing more damage to RAC than Colin is. The fact that someone used your service is a good thing, if they had a bad experience or what not is not good but not every situation requires a lawsuit. It's ok for people to vent and post cautions and I publicly thank Colin for posting this. Can you sue me too? Sue me for reading a caution post? C'mon, who would use your service after reading this? Rod, even bad publicity is publicity, the first rule of marketing. I had no opinion of your service until you started writing in this thread, now, personally I admit I would be scared to use your service because I could get sued if I vented that I didn't like it. That's not a good thing! Opinions and free speech are welcome, yes, even bashing to a degree is not uncommon for any company receive it's fair share. Colin has 2,000+ posts in the forum and I don't know him from Adam but I would gladly believe his story over a guy that has 3 posts and just joined the community with the title "legal" to threaten a long time member. I guess we'll see how this turns out but from my perch there are some lessons to be learned here, especially by RAC, regardless of the outcome I think your approach is a bit brutish. Cheers,

Acro

 

[JoomDev]

Rent-a-coder

Unbelievable. I was searching this forum for info on something else and this thread caught my eye. After reading all the responses I had to register and comment. As I started to read this thread, I was thinking this poor guy Colin got the wrong end of the stick. I think most of us who do business on the web can sympathize because we all have our own horror stories.

Again, from the start of the thread I figured I was reading about an unfortunate occurrence where the little guy gets it in the wallet. Nonetheless, the reported incident would not have kept me from continuing to use Rent-A-Coder any more than all the problems encountered by others and myself keep me from using Paypal or ebay. In other words, these things happen and you just cross your fingers and hope for the best.

When I got to the end of this thread however and read the responses from the Rent-A-Coder representative here, my attitude changed quickly. The unprofessional and bullying responses from this Rent-A-Coder representative remind me of the way middle school children argue. It is absurd that in the competitive world of freelance sourcing, a Rent-A-Coder representative would be so unconcerned with customer service. So you see "legal" it is your responses here that have damaged your reputation as far as I am concerned, not Mr. Behr's. His post caused me to think "better be careful" with who I deal with on Rent-A-Coder next time I post a project. Your responses however have me thinking that if this is the garbage I would have to deal with if I ever have a need for customer service assistance at Rent-A-Coder; then I will avoid the place at all costs. Take Real, who posted here is a great coder, however, his services are just as readily found on another popular freelancer's site which is actually where I first hired his services.

 

[Legal]

Acronym77,

>>RAC threatens to sue people in a public forum?

Writing accurate information is everyone's right. Writing INACCURATE information is NO ONE's. It is actually a crime (called defamation) and punishable by the law. The reason it's a crime is that it's unfair to damage the reputation of the person or entity that is being written about. And yes RAC protects it's rights against those who would write inaccurate information about it. You would too, if someone wrote something inaccurate about you.

But, Acronym...if you really believe Colin Behr's story is true, then you shouldn't be worried about him one bit. The contract between him and RAC says that the prevailing party has all of their court costs picked up by the loser. So if what he is saying is true, this won't even cost him any money. On the other hand, if what he is saying isn't true, then he will be in for an expensive trip and you should be concerned.

Rod Smith

Joomdev,

>>Again, from the start of the thread I figured I was reading about an unfortunate occurrence where the little guy gets it in the wallet

EXACTLY. You associated RAC with the "bad guy" because of what Colin Behr wrote and assumed that he's some "good" little guy. Now what if it turns out that what Colin Behr wrote was inaccurate? Of course it may be tough for you to consider such a scenario, since RAC is already the "bad guy" in your mind. But hopefully you can consider that statistically, as in any dispute, there is a 50% chance that Colin Behr actually might not be presenting accurate information here. And if so, then not only did you get an unfair impression of RAC, but thousands of others have as well. That's why defamation is a crime and punishable under the law. It's not fair.

If Colin is telling the truth then he has no troubles whatsoever to worry about. That's becuase his contract states that the prevailing party pays the court costs of the losing party. On the other hand, if he isn't telling the truth, then he is in for a very expensive ride.

Rod Smith

 

[acronym007]

Venting is everyone's right. Nothing is ever 100% accurate even your guarantee's. I never said I believed Colin more than you, only that I have no reason not too. I don't believe you have any case whatsoever, he is entitled to free speech, having said that your methods of attacking him are not fair and just and actually counter-productive. Perhaps, he can counter-sue? Maybe there is more opinion here than fact, I don't know the case nor do I claim too but I don't want anyone to fear posting problems because they're afraid the rep from the company will come in here and bully them. Can you sue people because they called you a bully? Is that an opinion or a fact? You have overstepped your bounds Rod. Your a one man tornado, your ripping apart your company's reputation faster than Colin ever could have, don't you get it? Colin may be 100% wrong and that's one person's experience but your approach left a bad taste in my mouth.
Ever heard the customer is always right? I mean I heard many stories about Mcdonald's but I still eat there on occasion and so do millions of others BUT I never once heard the Mcdonalds sue the person because of what they said. Someone goes to Home Depot buys a drill, the drill is broke then they hate Home Depot and bad mouth them but I would still shop there. Now if Home Depot got pissed and sues the guy because they didn't make the drill they only sold the drill. I have a problem with that line of thinking from a company. I'm not going to use a service or company I am afraid of. Good luck trying to win the battle of public opinion with this case, you already lost Rod. If I were you, from one businessman to another, I would strongly suggest you to reconsider your position and help makes Colin's experience better. If nothing else you OWE him that much because he used your service and something did go wrong.

And it's Acronym007, not acronym77. Cheers,

 

[Legal]

Acronym007 (sorry for the name mixup),

>>Venting is everyone's right

Let's synch up on our terms. If "venting" means expressing accurate statements and honest opinions about something you're upset about, then you're correct. It is your right to vent (and everyone's). No one can sue you for that.

But that's not what defamation is. Colin Behr has nothing to worry about if that's all he did. Defamation is the inventing/twisting facts to present a skewed picture of something that happened, to unfairly damage the reputation of another. No one has the right to do that. That's not "venting"...that's deliberate fraud. I certanly hope you're not advocating that people have the right to do this?

Does that make sense Acronym007?

>>Nothing is ever 100% accurate

Often true. But again, there's a difference between true "venting" and defamation. If you truly vent and miss a few minor things, that isn't defamation. You can't be taken to court fot that. That's not what we are talking about here when we are discussing defamation. Defamation is when you deliberately change key things that happened to paint an unfair picture of the other party.

>>Perhaps, he can counter-sue?

A007...there is no need for Colin Behr to do this, becuase if what he posted on this board is true, his contract says we will pay his court costs for him and the judge might even award damages against us. So if he's been truly venting, then he has no problems whatsoever. On the other hand, if he's been engaged in fraud, then he has serious problems.

>>If nothing else you OWE him that much because he used your service and something did go wrong.

That is exactly the point Acronym007. You've just shown that you yourself believe something did go wrong because of what Colin Behr wrote. That seed of doubt about RAC was planted becuase of what he said. Now what if it turns out that it's all not true and that he has an agenda that he's pushing and changed key facts? If so, then he's committed defamation. And that is a crime.

Again, if he didn't do this, then he has no worries at all.

Does the difference make sense?

Rod Smith

 

[JoomDev]

Sorry Rod. I'm afraid you just aren't getting it. From the consumer viewpoint, and that is what this thread is about, this guy paid three hundred dollars and got nothing for it. We aren't interested in your personal definition of libel here, we as consumers are interested in knowing where we will get a fair shake for our dollar and be treated at least politely for our business. I have not seen anything to dispute the fact that this guy paid you three hundred dollars for a service that you did not deliver. Any reasonable business would do everything it could to prevent that from happening. If they don't, they will justifiably lose business because word gets around. People talk as we see they are doing here. This is the United States and we run on capitalism. Service providers that give the consumer a fair deal and treat them right will always come out ahead.

As I stated earlier, Colin's posts did nothing to dissuade me from using Rent-A-Coder again, they just simply reminded me that as a service consumer you need to be careful. In this case it means checking the reputation of the coder and looking for information on their past performance. What has turned me off from Rent-A-Coder is 100% your posts. What you are doing is known on forums as trolling/flaming/griefing. You are simply posting inflammatory posts in an attempt to bad mouth and discredit the person who started thread. I, as a consumer of freelance services, cannot believe that Rent-A-Coder would send a person out into the public to represent them in the manner that you are doing. Regardless of your claims to the contrary, he has every right to share his experiences here, this is exactly why this forum exists; to share information. We don't expect Rent-A-Coder to come here and not give their side of the story, but we also don't expect someone who represents a business to come here and post in such an unprofessional manner.

If you truly represent Rent-A-Coder's philosophy and company culture, than what people are going to take from thread is not what Colin posted, but the knowledge that if they use the Rent-A-Coder service and happen to have a concern or need help at some point, they are going to have an extremely difficult time in getting any sort of fair assistance from a reasonable individual. Again, as a consumer paying for a service, I will choose to use a freelancer site that isn't so hostile.

 

[Legal]

P.S.
>>Someone goes to Home Depot buys a drill, the drill is broke then they hate Home Depot and bad mouth them but I would still shop there. Now if Home Depot got pissed and sues the guy because they didn't make the drill they only sold the drill.

Yes, this shows exactly what I'm talking about Acronym007. You are already are assuming that we ("home depot") did something wrong ("sold the guy a bad drill").

Now let's suppose that Home Depot didn't really sell him a bad drill. Maybe the broke the drill accidentally himself and couldn't afford to tell his wife because she would berate him. Maybe he is a shareholder for Lowes and doesn't like the fact that it's more crowed there on Saturday than at Lowes. Does he still have the "right" to bad mouth Home Depot for a broken drill that never occurred?

If he still does that, then that is not "venting". That is fraud. That is also defamation. And this is certainly not everyone's right to do.

So Acronyom007, I have a simple question for you, so I can understand your ethics:

You go into home depot and buy a drill. The guy demos it for you, so you know it works. On the way home, some jerk cuts me off and causes the drill case to fall on the floor and breaks it. You know your wife is going to kill you because she didn't want you buying another drill in the first place and it's expensive. So you take it back to the store. But the guy tells you they can't refund your money because he knows you left the store with it working.

Do you have the right to then come to this website and complain to everyone that Home Depot stole your money and gave you a non working drill (under the name of "venting)?

I'm very interested to hear your answer.

Rod

-----------------------
Joomdev,

Your statements might be totally on-base...IF what Colin Behr had said about his arbitration was true. But if it turns out that in actuality Colin Behr forfeited the arbitration for a situation OTHER than what he posted here, then what you're saying is completely off-base.

You will be seeing the arbitration posted publicly shortly and then you'll be able to make that determination for yourself, Joomdev.

When that happens, I welcome your input Joomdev on what you're thinking at that time. (Assuming you're not a competitor and have honest intentions. Since you know my name, Joomdev, what is yours?)

Rod Smith