Registrar sends renewed domains to delete...

[DBADT2007]

This is a forewarning to all domain holders...

Registrar: DomainMonster.com
Company: Mesh Digital Ltd - UK

Some weeks ago, I deactivated the auto-renewal function from my domains at the registrar above since it was auto-renewing domains way before they were actually due. Being busy as always, I happen to have manually renewed the domains a day late which happened to be on my account and received a confirmation email letting me know that the domains were pending renewal- my credit card was charged the transaction. However, upon reviewing my account it has come to attention that they are not present.

I placed a phone call to their support staff, only to be told that they can not do anything once it is pending delete.

What I don't understand is why they were placed in pending delete status, when I have already renewed them before they actually had been removed from my account. Furthermore, it seems to me that registrars usually hold domains for a grace period of at least 5 days, before they actually go into extended expiration to give enough time for the domain holder to renew the domains. However, they refuse to do anything about it and have ignored my email about re-instating those domains to my account when they have already been paid for. They have referenced their TOS, but there is no clear indication that domains are immediately deleted as they have implied. While they have stated that they as a registrar have the discretion to immediately delete, I don't believe that is proper procedure according to ICANN rules.

This has definitely opened my eyes to the tactics of this Registrar and definitely, would advice CAUTION to all domainers that make purchases through them.

If anyone, can give any advice concerning this- it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[exponent]

I lost a developed domain due to the same issue at GoDaddy. Keep us up to date on what happens.

 

[bmugford]

I would really like to find out more about this. How does it happen that a renewed domain is sent immediately to delete status? Normally it has to go through an entire process as well as RGP. Was it sent after a period of time because there was an error recognizing renewal?

Brad

 

[DBADT2007]

I would really like to find out more about this. How does it happen that a renewed domain is sent immediately to delete status? Normally it has to go through an entire process as well as RGP. Was it sent after a period of time because there was an error recognizing renewal?

Brad

Hey Brad,
That is exactly what I had thought- after all there is an RGP process. Yet the registrar claims that it is left at their own discretion, which to me really sounds like BS.

So word to the wise, better keep a close eye on your domains and an even closer eye on the registrars they are located at!

 

[Domagon]

They weren't ccTLDs were they?

Some ccTLDs delete on or near expiration. Little to no grace period.

If you're referring to .com, .net, .org, etc then that's a different matter all together.

Quick way to find out what's going on is query the corresponding registry directly for the domain status.

Ie. for .com and .net, you would query whois.verisign-grs.com to see what the status is. For .org, query whois.pir.org

Getting back to DomainMonster.com - didn't see anything that specifically says expired domains can't be renewed...

In fact I see the exact opposite!

According to a blurb on their Help page:

"Although a domain name has expired it may not be available for registration. This is because there are various grace periods applied to domains names with different top-level domain extensions so that the original owner of the domain name has time to re-register their domain name."

So they're acknowledging various grace periods exist, and that the registrant often has the right to get their expired domain back.

Call and call; esculate the matter to high-level folks there.

Ron

 

[jberryhill]

That is exactly what I had thought- after all there is an RGP process. Yet the registrar claims that it is left at their own discretion, which to me really sounds like BS.

It's not BS. RGP is a registry service for which the registrars do not have to provide support.

 

[DBADT2007]

They weren't ccTLDs were they?

Some ccTLDs delete on or near expiration. Little to no grace period.

Yes, they were.

It's not BS. RGP is a registry service for which the registrars do not have to provide support.

Thank you very much for the input- JBerryHill. I really appreciate the comment, because you are definitely the best person to answer this question.

Well isn't that interesting- I don't know about anyone else, but to me their is a bigger picture here that goes beyond the topic at hand. I definitely feel that domain owners should be explicitly be made aware of this fact, however I don't see this being stated to them, by any Registrar or even ICANN. It may be buried in the legal service agreements; between you, the registrar, and ICANN, but you wouldn't know about it, till your actually facing it.

So, Registrars that have in their power something of value, in representation of an account holder, could potentially not be held liable for loosing it? I have to say, anyone see anything wrong with this picture? Any more surprises?!?

 

[Domagon]

Yes, they were.

So the registrar may be telling the truth... some ccTLDs automatically, as in outside of the control of the registrar, go right to deletion.

All this talk about ICANN, auto-renew period, RGP, etc is meaningless (yes, really!) when it comes to ccTLDs.

ccTLDs are governed by the government of the country / nation / region to which they're assigned.

With all that said, the registrar, especially if you're willing to pay an extra fee for their time, may be willing to work to recover them, but that will require the cooperation of the ccTLD registry - some are quite strict and make no exceptions, but it doesn't hurt to try.

Ron

 

[Kate]

I would really like to find out more about this. How does it happen that a renewed domain is sent immediately to delete status? Normally it has to go through an entire process as well as RGP. Was it sent after a period of time because there was an error recognizing renewal?

Brad

If the registrar does not renew with the registry then there is no grace period. The name would enter redemption from day one.
Many registrars will automatically renew with the registry, because they have 45 days to cancel the renewal and get a refund... so they can offer a grace period to their customers as a convenience.

But maybe it was a ccTLD like .co.uk

 

[bmugford]

Well, I am confused because it said the Registrar sent a "renewed" domain to delete status.

Was the domain actually renewed or not?

Yeah, being a ccTLD brings up all kinds of issues that you don't have with most TLD.

Brad

If the registrar does not renew with the registry then there is no grace period. The name would enter redemption from day one.
Many registrars will automatically renew with the registry, because they have 45 days to cancel the renewal and get a refund... so they can offer a grace period to their customers as a convenience.

But maybe it was a ccTLD like .co.uk

 

[Ms Domainer]

*

Also note that some ccTLDs must be renewed 30-45 days BEFORE expiration (specifically, .tc, which requires renewal the 15th of the month before the renewal month).

I had this very issue last year. Luckily, my GoDaddy rep worked on this for me and was able to retrieve my domain from the .tc registry, with no penalty (but do note that the domain had not yet expired).

Just a general warning to keep a close eye on your ccTLDs and their baffling expiration rules.


*

 

[Domagon]

If the registrar does not renew with the registry then there is no grace period. The name would enter redemption from day one.

In many (maybe all?) of the gTLDs, an expired domain automatically renews during the "auto-renew" period. It's up to the registrar to delete it.

I'm not aware of any registrar that deletes expired gTLD domains immediately.

For one thing, there's no cost advantage, and secondly, the risk of a mistake is greatly magnified, and thirdly, the "auto-renew" period gives the registrar more time to convince the registrant to renew, and finally, provides time to test it out to see if it's worth keeping for themselves / dropcatchers.

Ron

 

[tech4]

I have an account with Domain Monster too. I let over 30 domain expires , it was the dot Asia.

One month before renewal, they sent me like 5 emails every day to remind me, even though I opted out of auto renewal for the names that I wanted to not pay yearly fee.

the names were expiring march 28, 2009.
They started sending the emails Feb 20 something.

I saw this thread and went into my account and check out those names. They are not there anymore. When I did a whois query using domain monster, they were "pending delete"

However my whois info is still there.

In your case they must have sent you like 5 notices too?

 

[DBADT2007]

[...] If the registrar does not renew with the registry then there is no grace period. The name would enter redemption from day one.

Since I was able to renew the domains and received a confirmation of this transaction, then it becomes the responsibility of the registrar. I only became aware of the registrar's failure to renew from the fact that the domains were removed from my account, otherwise I would not have known that the the domains were not renewed.

Well, I am confused because it said the Registrar sent a "renewed" domain to delete status.

Was the domain actually renewed or not?

Yeah, being a ccTLD brings up all kinds of issues that you don't have with most TLD.

Brad

Brad,
I did renew the domains in question, just a day late. As previously stated:

[...] Being busy as always, I happen to have manually renewed the domains a day late which happened to be on my account and received a confirmation email letting me know that the domains were pending renewal- my credit card was charged the transaction. However, upon reviewing my account it has come to attention that they are not present.

[...]
Just a general warning to keep a close eye on your ccTLDs and their baffling expiration rules.

Ms Domainer,
I definitely agree that one must keep a very close eye on these issues. However, in no way does this excuse registrars from their legal obligations and their responsibility to their customers.

 

[Ms Domainer]

Ms Domainer,
I definitely agree that one must keep a very close eye on these issues. However, in no way does this excuse registrars from their legal obligations and their responsibility to their customers.

*

You're right, of course.

The registrars that sell ccTLDs should post the terms of service for them. Not even my rep knew the rule and had to consult someone else.

It's crazy.




*

 

[Dave_Z]

I definitely feel that domain owners should be explicitly be made aware of this fact, however I don't see this being stated to them, by any Registrar or even ICANN. It may be buried in the legal service agreements; between you, the registrar, and ICANN, but you wouldn't know about it, till your actually facing it.

I understand and agree with that feeling. To a certain extent on the agreeing
part, though.

An ever present dilemma is how much one ought to tell others, and how much
one doesn't need to say unless asked. If you run a website selling a tangible
product online, shouldn't you tell your customers at the front page their order
will be verified via phone prior to shipping and, possibly, risk their ire?

If you take orders via phone and your agents are instructed to tell them that,
how many people might be pissed with that as well? They might even search
for another competitor or so who doesn't do that.

That's just an example, of course. But I'm sure you can imagine its implication
and more.

It's definitely nice if the registrar, or any business for that matter, does reveal
to their customers what they "need" to know. Essentially the registrar decides
for themselves when, where and how much to tell if they're especially asked
asked about it, much of which depends on feedback and experience over time.

Another thing: you said you turned off autorenew due to their doing that prior
to expiration. Makes one tend to wish that was left on, no?

Speaking of country codes, some registrars leave autorenew on because, as
pointed out, they have different rules. That's one time that's arguably a good
thing rather than risk losing the names and going through a lot of hassle.

Of course, one could argue what their legal and perhaps moral responsibilities
and obligations should be. Until a judge from a court of competent jurisdiction
says otherwise, their registration agreement defines them.

It'd be interesting to hear from DomainMonster how this happened. Of course,
they're not required, obligated, forced, etc. to discuss in an online forum how
that happened, and they'll surely deal with it as they see fit.

In the meantime, if these are especially .coms and indeed in pending delete,
only options are to risk putting a backorder for them or being ready to register
them when they're available again. And pray to the Domain Name Gods (like I
was addressed that one time when I checked a customer's email, heh) those
domains won't be taken by anyone else, yet maybe expect that to occur still.

Good luck.

 

[BrianOconor]

HOw cud have thing happened? Is it happen that a renewed domain is sent immediately to delete status? Was it sent after a period of time because there was an error recognizing renewal?

HOw cud have thing happened? Is it happen that a renewed domain is sent immediately to delete status? Was it sent after a period of time because there was an error recognizing renewal?