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Received a Trademark Infringement Notice for Domain Name centurion.shop

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shopman

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Hi guys, I received the following below letters within a 12-day time span from American Express for the domain name centurion.shop. Should I be worried given that:
  • Centurion is a generic English or Historical term that has been used for over a millennia. Remember the Roman Centurions?
  • Centurion is a city name in South Africa.
  • Centurion is a name used by thousands of businesses globally. Does AMEX have exclusive rights to a domain name that is being used by thousands of businesses across the world?
  • AMEX once lost a UDRP for the domain name centurion.cc. In that case, the user was even using AMEX style branding on its porn website but the panel still ruled in Respondent's favour.
  • personally, I wasn't even aware that American Express had a product/brand called centurion but I guess that is hard to prove in a court of law.
How many of you have experienced this? Should I be worried? What will their next moves be after the second notice letter? I plan to defend my right to the domain name all the way.

Here are the letters:-


08-Mar-2017

Dear Domain Admin,

American Express Company or an affiliated company (“American Express”) is the owner of the well-known trademark and trade name Centurion. As you are no doubt aware, Centurion is a trademark used to identify products, services, activities and events related to American Express.

You have registered, without American Express’s permission or authorization, the domain name ‘centurion.shop’. The Domain Name incorporates the famous Centurion mark in its entirety and suggests American Express’s sponsorship or endorsement of your website. Our records do not show that Domain Admin is affiliated with American Express or authorized to use its trademarks. If you are affiliated with American Express, we ask that you advise us and we will review.

In view of American Express’s rights to the trademark Centurion, we ask that you immediately discontinue any and all use of the Domain Name and take steps to transfer the Domain Name to American Express.

Should you require additional information or wish to further discuss this issue, please contact the undersigned.

This letter is without prejudice to any of American Express’ rights and remedies, all of which are expressly reserved.

Sincerely,

American Express Trademark Enforcement



Second Letter:

Dear Domain Admin,


This is our SECOND communication with you. Please be advised that American Express Company or an affiliated company (“American Express”) is the owner of the well-known trademark and trade name Centurion. As you are no doubt aware, Centurion is the trademark used to identify products, services, activities and events related to American Express.

In connection to American Express’s proprietary rights over its famous trademark we bring to your attention the following:

1) You have registered, without American Express’s permission or authorization, the domain name ‘centurion.shop’. The Domain Name incorporates the famous Centurion mark in its entirety, and, by its very composition, suggests American Express’s sponsorship or endorsement of your website and correspondingly, your activities.

2) Your use of a Domain Name that incorporates the famous Centurion mark in its entirety constitutes trademark infringement and dilution of American Express’s trademark rights and unfair competition. Your use of our mark in the Domain Name is diluting use because it weakens the ability of the Centurion mark and domain name to identify a single source, namely American Express. Further, your registration and use of the Domain Name misleads consumers into believing that some association exists between American Express and you, which tarnishes the goodwill and reputation of American Express’s products, services, and trademarks.

In view of your infringement of our rights, we must demand that you provide written assurances that you will:
1. Immediately discontinue any and all use of the Domain Name;

2. Take immediate steps to transfer the Domain Name to American Express;

3. Identify and agree to transfer to American Express any other domain names registered by you that contain Centurion or are confusingly similar to the Centurion mark;

4. Immediately and permanently refrain from any use of the term Centurion or any variation thereof that is likely to cause confusion or dilution;

This letter is without prejudice to any of American Express’ rights and remedies, all of which are expressly reserved.

Sincerely,

American Express Trademark Enforcement
 
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The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
@168
There is ZERO evidence the purchaser "intended" to sell directly to any of the 1000+ TM holders

@shopman clearly stated in his previous post:

"Actually, I wanted to either sell the domain name or use it for a Centurion South Africa tourist site. Right now it is on a for sale landing page."

@deez007
it does not say having the domain for sale is considered bad faith...it clearly says selling the name to the TM owner or a Competitor is bad faith! This is not what the OP was doing.

Then what was the OP intention with a for sale landing page? LOL

Common guys!
 
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Primary Purpose to Sell the Name to the Trademark Owner or a Competitor,
is the only bad faith purchase for sale if it can be proven.
Using an example of a bad decision "inferred" is not enough.
There is ZERO evidence the purchaser "intended" to sell directly to any of the 1000+ TM holders
There is 1000+ examples of "bad faith" rulings and hundreds of examples of the "bad faith" rulings overturned.
No 1 company is "entitled" to any domain that contains "part" of the TM period.
If the domain can be used in a category not protected by any associated TM there is legitimate use, there is legitimate offer to sell.
AMEX does not have "exclusive use" of the term nor does any of the other TM holders of the term. period.
No TM holder has legitimate rights just because a term they have TM is for sale. WRONG AGAIN>
Should "exclusive use "of a term ever come into play there would be no business names available!
"If the domain can be used in a category not protected by any associated TM there is legitimate use, there is legitimate offer to sell."

Not only category but also geographic area.
 
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@168
There is ZERO evidence the purchaser "intended" to sell directly to any of the 1000+ TM holders

@shopman clearly stated in his previous post:

"Actually, I wanted to either sell the domain name or use it for a Centurion South Africa tourist site. Right now it is on a for sale landing page."

@deez007
it does not say having the domain for sale is considered bad faith...it clearly says selling the name to the TM owner or a Competitor is bad faith! This is not what the OP was doing.

Then what was the OP intention with a for sale landing page? LOL

Common guys!

No dude, u are missing the point here. The TOEFL example u used is not the same... - in that case there were not many other possible users for that domain apart from the TM holder and their competitors.

In this case there are 1000's of potential users... every single business that is situated in Centurion that has a shop..is an potential user...
 
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Those just trying to scare you with their big company name... but also big companies are scared easily...
Are any of you aware of the Amex centurion card, and the shopping concierge services, among other amenities it provides. I agree it is far reaching, but I bet you if need be their attorneys can make some good arguments.

If you hold a centurion card, which has no limit, and a minimum $250k annual spend, it has a shopping concierge.

So you call, and tell them I want this kind of laptop as a gift for my son, they will shop for the best price online, inform you, then purchase it for you, and have of delivered where you want.

I am guessing your keyword triggered an automatic c&d warning letter.

If they see a violation, they may seek action.

I saw someone prior say ask for $x amount, do not do this, it can be used against you, as bad faith.
 
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http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1020558/ - Amex should send this Hollywood production company a UDRP

How dare they use Amex TM as a movie name!

And these businesses too... they can never sell their domain names, I guess.....

http://www.centurioncorp.com.sg/
http://www.centurioneurope.co.uk/
http://centurion.org/

The movie you are refering too is related to "A splinter group of Roman soldiers" has noting to do with finance or AMEX. perfect example of generic term USE.

Centurion.org is a non profit organization that is NOT in the financial niche like AMEX.
www.centurioneurope.co.uk - tools and gardening tools, NOT in the financial niche like AMEX

Also most importantly those companies didn't have those names listed for sale.

Are you still missing the point????
 
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@168
There is ZERO evidence the purchaser "intended" to sell directly to any of the 1000+ TM holders

@shopman clearly stated in his previous post:

"Actually, I wanted to either sell the domain name or use it for a Centurion South Africa tourist site. Right now it is on a for sale landing page."

@deez007
it does not say having the domain for sale is considered bad faith...it clearly says selling the name to the TM owner or a Competitor is bad faith! This is not what the OP was doing.

Then what was the OP intention with a for sale landing page? LOL

Common guys!
Many domainers use for sale landings prior to development
Many domainers sell terms TM that have nothing to do with TM holders
Are all sales of terms TM "bad Faith" according to you ?
If so, ALL SALES WOULD BE IN "Bad Faith" BEYOND ABSURD.
Putting a TM term up for sale DOES NOT IMPLY, the sale was intended toward a TM holder.
NO TM holder has "exclusive use" PERIOD.
Are you still missing the point?
 
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The movie you are refering too is related to "A splinter group of Roman soldiers" has noting to do with finance or AMEX. perfect example of generic term USE.

Centurion.org is a non profit organization that is NOT in the financial niche like AMEX.
www.centurioneurope.co.uk - tools and gardening tools, NOT in the financial niche like AMEX

Also most importantly those companies didn't have those names listed for sale.

Are you still missing the point????

No you are still missing the point... that was a 10 second search on Google to illustrate that the term Centurion is used all over the place... you comparing a TOEFL domain example to this case is completely irrelevant.....there are loads of potential users for the domain...so him placing it for sale does not mean he was exclusively targeting AMEX or their competitors
 
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Don't waste your time with this guys.

Yes, Amex is reaching, as they always do, they are playing defense.

More so warning you, hey we are watching, don't do anything stupid, or else.

They will not hesitate to spend the money to protect their mark if they need to.

I think for now your fine, just keep up your blog, and do your business.

As for using this domain for any commercial financial site, you are probably out of luck.

This domain is not worth the headache with a multi billion dollar corp.

Did you agree to the trademark clearing house disclaimer when registering it?
 
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@wwwweb thanks I will be watching the whois info on Centurion.shop, I bet AMEX will send out letter number 3(final) and then put the hammer down.
 
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Did you agree to the trademark clearing house disclaimer when registering it?

There was no trademark clearing house disclaimer/warning. Probably, they faced the same dilemma. How one company can reserve a common name for exclusive use when there are probably thousands of companies with trademarks globally for the same name or variations of it.
 
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...there are loads of potential users for the domain...so him placing it for sale does not mean he was exclusively targeting AMEX or their competitors

Exactly. Me placing it for sale was targeting virtually anyone who saw it listed there. I did't email AMEX or other TM owners asking them to cough an XXXX amount for the name!
 
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Let's see how it goes. Will update you guys if they play the next card. Thanks for all the opinions. So far, I think it is 50-50 with the chips in my favour.
 
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Let's see how it goes. Will update you guys if they play the next card. Thanks for all the opinions. So far, I think it is 50-50 with the chips in my favour.
They already won because you can't monetize the domain, hard enough selling gtlds as it is, your hands are tied, if you keep the current site, great, but you are just paying renewals to keep a blog nobody cares about.

As for chips being in your favour, I would say your not out of the woods. Clearly your not going to spend thousands to defend a reg fee domain, against a billion dollar corp.

You might talk a good fight here, but I doubt you would even respond to udrp for this domain if they brought action.

Sure, it may have many marks, but you need to remember they are holders of a mark, your just a guy with a 2017 reg date on a domain, the burden of proof lies within you also.
 
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great, but you are just paying renewals to keep a blog nobody cares about.

It is still in development. Let's wait and see. I have developed several blogs that "nobody cared about" at first that quickly grew into must read websites that earn several hundreds per month. I can make money from widely read websites in various ways without infringing on someone's marks.
 
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It is still in development. Let's wait and see. I have developed several blogs that "nobody cared about" at first that quickly grew into must read websites that earn several hundreds per month. I can make money from widely read websites in various ways without infringing on someone's marks.


Yes, I await the day you are making hundreds per month blogging on centurion.shop, reality is reality, be realistic.

So many better gtlds to register out there, I encourage you to build your blog, let's see if people come to the centurion.shop for your groundbreaking cut and paste material.
 
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@wwwweb thanks I will be watching the whois info on Centurion.shop, I bet AMEX will send out letter number 3(final) and then put the hammer down.

Will post it here when the big “hammer” falls. It is comforting that they have lost past two contests for the “centurion” marks. Google centurion.cc and joincenturion.com.
 
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Centurion.blog is available at reg fee, might make for more of a compelling case for a blog than .shop
 
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You have a funny way of appreciating advice.

I would say not to waste our breath on you. You clearly know it all and am just here to inform us.
 
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tm law is more complicated than

a) are there registered TMs
b) are there multiple TM
c) Is the name generic or not?

It is not black and white, circumstances do also matter.

one can not conclude: It is a dictionary word therefore I must be safe
one can not conclude it is a TM therefore I am infringing.

some cases are edgy.

if you have a domain like loan.com it is obvious and you will be safe unless you use it in a non-financial niche where there are TMs.

otherwise it can be really complicated. Usually generics which are more like brandables (centurion.com blue.com) etc. can be safe in the sense that you can defend yourself with a lawyer and odds can be on your side if you did not do anything stupid but there are a lot of things to consider and it can be tricky and you can run into trouble.

example of what not to do:

a domainer bought a large city name which also happened to be the name of a large financial services company. Around the same time they did also register cityname+insurance, the company was offering insurance products.

They were asking a fortune for their domain and when the UDRP came they claimed it was a generic geo domain, which it was. UDRP was lost as far as I remember, which is not surprising.

The panel had known about the other registrations and the story was simply not credible because of the circumstances. Hiding behind the generic nature of the domain didn't work.

That was obvious but there are more subtle things that can make you lose.

Even winning an UDRP can be a problem. Why? because the company can decide to take legal action against you which is worse. It is not that winning solves the problem automatically.

I remember a story of a domainer who bought a domain like this one, generic but could only be used as a brandable. Name of a huge brand. Domainer won UDRP but got sued. He might have won again, I do not know or the case got settled. Name was not worth it unless you intended to sell to the TM holder.

Unless you enjoy making money this way I don't see the point. With the time spent one could register many more domains that are worth more.

yes it is unfair that a company can bully you because you are using a dictionary word, they do it because they can, they also have to protect their mark from abuse, it is not always that they want to.

there is a lot of TM abuse happening and being nice does not always work with cybersquatters.

life is sometimes unfair, the question is what is to gain from trying to fight a corporate giant over a $10 domain?
 
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There's no issue with you owning the domain name. Just don't use it to infringe upon their trademark.

If it's too late for that then give it to them.
 
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One thing I would add is people get bogged down with whether or not the trademark is registered or not and where. It not that important folks. Other factors are much more significant.

Trademarks are the least well understood thing on namepros and threads like this are always full of terrible advice from people who don't know what they're talking about.

However, imho the name isn't really worth defending, so looks like a bit of a headache with little or no payoff.

(having read the entire thread now, I can see there are other members who arrived at the same conclusion, listen to them, they're not trying to put you down, they're trying to help)
 
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Dordomai, True- It is not black and white, circumstances do also matter.

one can not conclude: It is a dictionary word therefore I must be safe
one can not conclude it is a TM therefore I am infringing.

some cases are edgy.

"the question is what is to gain from trying to fight a corporate giant over a $10 domain?"

the whole industry has a lot to gain by preventing theft of legally obtained contractual rights and use.
If every investor bent over because a corporate giant whined this industry would not exist.
The reality is there is a TM for just about every word on the planet.
this is exactly why there are categories protected not exclusive use.
AMEX may do shopping for it's customers under the Centurion name but it does not have a Centurion "Shop"
This "shop" could sell everything but AMEX type products and be within it's own "rights"
The options for use outside of TMs is exactly why it should be defended.
Also, the more Corps that loose frivolous claims the better off this industry will be going forward.
Otherwise, all domains are up for grabs to any TM holder with a big bank account.
 
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Given your explanations don't waste your time on UDRP go straight to Fed court and file for RDNH

That is actually an interesting question. The plain language reading says that only a "mark owner" (not a domain registrant) and bring an ACPA action absent a UDRP decision. Other people have implied that any type of forward complaint (a domain registrant can be sued under the ACPA by the mere registration of a domain without using it in commerce) then there is also a "reverse claim." Since a domain owner can be sued under the ACPA without otherwise using the domain in commerce can a domain owner sue a bad faith actor who tries to take a domain away in bad faith?
 
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For now, simply reply to them (don't ignore them), stating that :

(1) they are 100% incorrect in assuming that you were "no doubt aware" of their trademark, as centurion.shop was originally registered for use as a blog-project relating to your current landing page and it's related content.

(2) there is absolutely zero chance of you infringing on theirs or anyone else's trademark rights, ever.

Be sure to word your correspondence in a professional and sincere manner. Have the mindset that they're most likely assuming that your intentions are bad, and that they're perhaps within their legal right to be concerned.

Worry about possible UDRP's if/when they arise. For now, try to clarify the misunderstanding with their trademark-enforcement team, they're only doing their job.

Perhaps @Kate can provide better advice.


no don't answer yourself

allways get a lawyer
 
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