Epik Escrow

Professional Outbound

Located in General Domain Discussion started by Windoms, Feb 12, 2019.

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  1. Windoms

    Windoms Established Member

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    Someone could make a website where a domain owner can post his domains, then a broker or outbound artist posts a request on one domain, owner accepts, broker with active request at time of sale receives a commission.
    This can be done on established platforms.

    For example if it sells privately through Afternic fast transfer, broker won't know. So Afternic would be a good platform to offer that type of service because you'd be able to post a request on any domain with Fast Transfer active and receive your commission from Afternic at time of sale.
    If domain sells elsewhere like on Sedo, broker doesn't get a commission.
    Domain DNS has to point to Afternic. Broker with active request receives an alert if domain points elsewhere. All can be stated in Terms.
    From my non-technical knowledge point of view, all this seems easy to implement.
    I think that would be interesting @Joe Styler

    @Undeveloped could also make this, broker posts a request on a domain on Undeveloped, owner accepts, owner and broker share the listing, both see the messages, broker handles communication and receives commission at time of sale. If domain points elsewhere, broker receives an alert.
    If it sells on Sedo, no commission. Terms can state that domain has to be removed from Afternic DLS and Sedo MLS, for example.

    The Undeveloped model can also be applied to registrars. @Rob Monster

    I thought about it after ready these posts below from @Ali , basically outbound for professionals.
    So no, if you own a nice domain, it doesn't necessarily have to be a hoard of brand new inexperienced spammers disgracing your domain as you publicly own it. You can view requests and select the broker you want.
    Daily Dose: Outbound techniques.
    Daily Dose: Outbound Negotiation Tactics. Part 1.
    Negotiation Tactics | Part 2: Inbound - A Few Different Approaches

    For example I have
    audiobookworm__.com__2.png
    Its on Afternic Fast Transfer $5,500.
    20% afternic commission, $1,100.
    15% to broker with active request. $825.
    I get 65%, it's low, but it's my choice since I'm the owner.

    Undeveloped.
    9% Undeveloped commission, $495.
    15% broker commission $825.
    I get 76%, it's low, but etc..

    I think that would be a great idea.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
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  2. Pierre Barnard

    Pierre Barnard Active Member VIP

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  3. BoomingNames.com

    BoomingNames.com Established Member

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    A good example of "out of the box" thinking.

    Stay Blessed!
     
  4. barman

    barman Established Member

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    I think that this is a good idea, but I have not dealt with brokers, so I don't know if it's actually a good idea.

    The value would be in the "marketplace" that connects domains and brokers. Quality in terms of domains and brokers would be the highest priority. And I feel that you would need some vetting because I don't think any wants their information public.
     
  5. Joe Styler

    Joe Styler Aftermarket Product Manager GoDaddy Staff Afternic Staff PRO VIP

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    That is not something we would be interested in doing. We have teams of brokers already in place to work the leads that come in. If you want someone to do outbound brokering for you, you are unlikely to find someone to do it at that price point. Most good brokers will only work on names in the high 5 (rarely) to 7 figure range. The amount of work is similar and the % on a higher number sale pays them enough to live on. Where working smaller sales for a similar amount of work would not pay them enough money. There is also the question of us having to vet the brokers we would allow to use our platform. I am sure we would have some liability regardless of if they were working for us directly or not as well as other concerns, such as brand reputation if we do not control the brokers etc.

    There is nothing stopping you from working on selling your own names or asking others to try and sell them but we wouldn't officially build in something like that on our side.
     
  6. satyadeep singh

    satyadeep singh Established Member

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  7. Kate

    Kate Domainosaurus Rex VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Almost everything has already been invented in the past, and failed.
    The problem is that in general domainers do not own domains that are brokerage-worthy.
    And if they have good names, then they can do without a broker because they are normally going to get unsolicited offers on a more or less regular basis. The good names sell for themselves.
    A broker can sometimes help but they are not wizards with a magic wand, who can sell stuff nobody wants.

    There is no need to create such a platform, since the facility already exists and you can judge for yourself:
    https://www.namepros.com/forums/domain-broker-wanted.258/
     
  8. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes formerly MetBob NameTalent VIP

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    Thanks for proposing the innovative idea @Windoms.

    While not disagreeing with the view that @Kate that good names sell themselves, I still think the idea has merit. The main brokers on lists only handle pretty highly premium names and almost exclusively for business use (vs. say NGO use etc.).

    An interchange where a different sort of broker could browse available names and select some that fit their expertise could be valuable in my opinion.

    It would probably get quickly flooded, and so many entries no one would look through it, so it would have to have great search and probably some sort of moderation to accept names to be listed, which translates to work.

    Interested to see what others think.

    Bob
     
  9. Windoms

    Windoms Established Member

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    @Kate It doesn't really have to do with domains being brokerage worthy, there are many many cases where one could benefit from a list of available domains. It doesn't matter whether it's owned by old domainers with large quality portfolios or some new domainers with a couple lucky catches.

    There would basically be no domain submission, owner just checks a box if he wants a specific domain to be viewable by brokers. Brokers can view and search keywords and see domain name, price, ability to apply for domain, suggest new price etc..

    I'm fully aware this can be done privately on NP or wherever but making it formally available on an established platform and being able to browse through an existing list would be quite nice.

    @Joe Styler I've thought about your existing team of brokers. I understand they only handle incoming leads, so they wouldn't really be affected by this.

    The word ''broker'' here doesn't have to be taken seriously. I'm simply talking about making your domain available to people, and allowing someone to sell your domain in exchange for a commission, on an established platform.

    I think @Uniregistry 's brokers are able to pick any domain on their marketplace and offer them to customers. As per reputation issues, I understand Uni brokers are trained and stuff, but I also understand one can go beyond basic ideation and make Terms and Conditions. Simple PR statements as well as Terms like ''any broker that repeatedly gets flagged for abuse will get banned'' could do. This was and still is basic ideation. Like I said I thought about it after reading the posts from @Ali . It made me think that all brokers/domainers could benefit from a list of available domains.
     
  10. Pierre Barnard

    Pierre Barnard Active Member VIP

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  11. Kate

    Kate Domainosaurus Rex VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    But the real brokers (or the pretenders) have not waited for such a platform. If they need inventory, then they know how to find it, and if they can't they need to find another occupation. They just do like domainers, they compile lists of valuable domains and check if they are in use and potentially for sale. They can also obtain huge listings by simply visiting the regular websites where domain names are listed for sale, some of which even have BIN prices. This is easy stuff really.
    If you own quality names, surely you have already been contacted by brokers offering their services...
    So what exactly are you trying to reinvent ?

    Domainers are putting too much emphasis on the platforms and the 'promotion' nonsense. The platforms are mere facilitators but seldom are initiators of a want for a domain name. You don't find end users - they find you.

    By the way, I'm wondering what an 'outbound artist' looks like :xf.grin:
     
  12. Hustling

    Hustling Established Member

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    @Windoms
    The problem is that most, if not all, brokers require a window of exclusivity. It does not seem at all likely that a broker would agree to broker a domain when there exists of a chance (however remote) for a private sale to occur, with say Afternic fast transfer. Even with the exclusivity factor agreed upon in advance, all the time spent searching for names, finding leads, and performing outbound, still might all be for naught.

    Couple all that I have said with the lower expected profit-margins (another major deterrent) that accompany mid-tier domains, when existing brokers can exclusively focus on upper-tier/ultra-premium names, and stand to make waaaaaay more, and I am of the belief that it'll be a hard sell to get seasoned domain brokers on-board, and get any early traction. These "outbound artists/specialists" make far more sense, however (read 'till the end).

    However, I agree in that there should be a service, specializing in mid-tier domain names. Similarly, I have wondered why no solution exists at the moment. I feel there is an evident gap in this industry to which the void has not yet been filled.

    In light of the hot garbage that is the redacted Whois details, and with domain sales suffering as a result, if someone were to executes correctly, this has the makings to be widely used among domainers, to be a huge success, and become highly profitable in the long-run.

    Now what you've proposed, is, something the people behind @domainhubdotcom, may want to consider. I noticed their post the other day on here. I think they might be on to something.

    But rather than them - or anyone else for that matter - turning into just another Sedo or BrandBucket, what I think should be done, is, and as you have hinted at, is for a feature allowing these vetted "outbound artists" to 'Accept' the domain brokerage requests of others. Newcomers making inroads and wanting to make a name for themselves can build up their domain sales cred with each successful sale, and in doing so, gain the trust of fellow domainers with a large portfolio of names. Could even make it a requirement that unless you amass 'X' amount of sales, you cannot deal with these portfolio owners. Although, portfolio owners would stand the most to benefit as they have nothing to lose, and they might even be able to sell more than ~2% or so of their names within a given yr.!

    A vastly superior custom search bar, enabling outbound artists/specialists to spot domainers/domain portfolios, and for end-users to specify their budget (like on NamePros)/pinpoint domains of interest, would be a must - leading to domain visibility, greater sales, marketplace credibility, and an influx of new domain listings.

    I know it is easier said than done, but if it were to be built, oh boy! Look out Sedo, BrandBucket, and all others!!

    ...Just something to consider for anyone who was or may have plans to give this a serious go.
     
  13. Furquah

    Furquah Skipper VIP

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    Well well, brilliant idea, outstanding idea, out of the box thinking,

    But

    How could be unsolicited spamming become "Professional outbound"?

    Here in my country, you get 1001 people who will do all the thing for cheap, from searching for potential (client) to whom seller need to send spamming email to drafting a pure "Professional Spamming email" & following them like a made for some $ only.

    @rohitgoyal
    Give us some insight on how to do "professional outbound"
     
  14. domainhubdotcom

    domainhubdotcom Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    If this is something that enough domainers and brokers want then we are more than happy to look at developing it on our platform. We already offer a user portfolio link such as https://domainhub.com/portfolio.php?userid=thewebgroup
    Here buyers / brokers can search domains via simple search or advanced search.

    We could look at features such as "request a broker" we could also include a find a broker page. This could display brokers listed with us, there would be some kind of profile page, past sales, ratings etc etc.
    If we create broker accounts and make it so that the broker is able to handle the domain negotiation of an agreed domain through his domain hub broker account. Brokers could list their specialist keywords and get alerts of any seller looking for a broker for a domain containing that keyword.

    The purpose of DomainHub was never to be another sedo but to give domainers the features that need.

    I have no doubt that there would be many domainers wanting this type of feature but the only way it will work is if there are enough brokers that would want it.

    If you are a broker and this sounds like something you would be interested in then please let me know, you can post your interest rather than PM just so everyone else can see if this is a popular idea with brokers,
     
  15. Windoms

    Windoms Established Member

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    @Furquah, there's more to outbound than selling geo domains. I strongly advise you all read these 3 posts below, it will show you what can be done with outbound.
    Daily Dose: Outbound techniques.
    Daily Dose: Outbound Negotiation Tactics. Part 1.
    Negotiation Tactics | Part 2: Inbound - A Few Different Approaches

    Regarding @rohitgoyal 's success, happy that his business model works,
     
  16. Windoms

    Windoms Established Member

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    This

    I've noticed there was an establishment with lots of quality domains and comfortable seats.
    I've also noticed the word ''outbound'' was dreadful to the establishment. Literally lifts your hair.

    @Kate as much as I like you happy valentines you have to understand there's more to outbound than spamming random people with the cheapest emails imaginable.

    @Bob Hawkes was spot on when he said
    The establishment doesn't really need this platform, this is best for allowing small & especially medium sized domainers to work together, formally, on an established platform with trust and effectiveness. This can already be done privately, but it's too complicated and prevents people from doing it.

    Way Too Complicated.

    Here is what easy looks like

    One can currently browse all domains that are listed @Undeveloped
    Add a way to submit a brokerage request to a domain. duration 1 week, 1 month, 3 months.
    Share listing information and communication, handle all communication (this btw could serve as a way to ''concierge'' your domains to someone else).
    Receive alerts when domain points elsewhere.
    Receive a commission when domain sells.

    An easy solution
    A place where medium sized domainers can collaborate and sell their domains easily.
     
  17. Windoms

    Windoms Established Member

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    Spot on.

    Not a bad idea. Whoever makes this will just have to create a suggestions thread and we'll post whatever we need while weighing pros and cons for each feature.

    Someone like @Mike Mann would have a hard time making this happen without tarnishing his reputation as it would only be dealing with his private domains.
    But allowing domainers to collaborate on an established platform like Undeveloped would be legit, and bliss.
    Can someone please get Reza @Undeveloped to read this.
     
  18. Hustling

    Hustling Established Member

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    I would be glad to offer my thoughts, provide input, and offer feature suggestions to whomever wants to latch onto this idea and run with it.
     
  19. Hustling

    Hustling Established Member

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    From what I know, @Mike Mann and his brokerage team have a knack for selling mid-tier domains - or names perceived by a large contingent of domainers to be subpar - on a pretty regular basis.

    I've also come to know that @Mike Mann exclusively sells his own crop of domains, or so I have been told by a member of his team.

    Actually, a while back, I reached out to him/them on DomainMarket. I had this similar, yet better niche domain than he had previously sold, according to NameBio. Not saying his was all that bad, but what I will say is, his sold, and it sold for a high five-figure amount. But yeah, I thought it was worth a shot. Who knows? After all, they don't call him the 'Mann', for nothing, right? Well, I did hear back from someone, not named @Mike Mann, but she declined my brokerage request. And, that's how I know.

    Now as far as @Mike Mann 's reputation is concerned, I personally don't believe it will take a hit, tbh. If anything, by privately brokering the domains of others, @Mike Mann will endear himself to a whole wave of domainers (both past and present, and many yet to come), and he'd be the "Mann of the people", as he claims he is. And there's no question, he'd bolster his status as THE undisputed "domain king" - THE king of kings.

    If he wants to remain a domaining scrooge, I say let him.

    This may very well be the route to pursue. By coming together, and having others best interests at heart, slowly but surely, we can begin to turn the tide against all those that claim all mid-tier (2-worder) domains - besides ultra-premium, 1 word dictionary domains - have gone the wayside. And by 'they' it's these experienced domain brokers I am referring to.
     
  20. Kate

    Kate Domainosaurus Rex VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Easily ? I don't believe there is an easy solution to every problem.
    Domains are very illiquid assets, domains that are sub-premium are always going to be slow to move.
    Nobody does magic out of poor names.

    The discussion is very old, we have had other threads in the past.
    The problem is always the same: no broker is willing to put a lot of effort into average names, even for a big commission, when the likelihood of a sale is too remote and the reward is too small.

    Some will even ask for money upfront:
    https://www.namepros.com/threads/10...ur-domains-outbounded-for-a-flat-fee.1116364/
    No kidding. But of course no guarantee of results.

    A word of caution: there are many self-proclaimed brokers but the wannabes outnumber the real pros.

    Believe me, the real brokers are proactive and they find you when you have quality inventory.
    At some point I was turning down offers for brokerage service every week.

    If you really think you have great names, then there is no need to wait for a savior, contact the brokers with a proven track record and see what they can do.
    If they decline your domains, there is a reason. Either they already have too many domains to sell, or your names are simply not strong enough to justify the effort.

    In addition, someone who is good at selling average names to end users, can find average names too and doesn't need yours. They will sell their names and keep all the money.


    Again, look at this section: https://www.namepros.com/forums/domain-broker-wanted.258/
    Do you see a lot of good names ?
    Do you see any of the known brokers around there ?

    If a market has not been 'cornered' already (or a gap not 'filled') there usually is a reason. Most likely, it's been tried before in the past, multiple times and was not sustainable.

    Domainers focus too much on 'how to sell the domain' when in fact they should focus more on buying right...
     
  21. domainhubdotcom

    domainhubdotcom Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    @Kate @Hustling @Windoms as per above if the brokers show an interest we are happy to integrate this.
     
  22. Hustling

    Hustling Established Member

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    That sounds nice and all, but I wouldn't hold my breath if it is the domain broker heavyweights you are waiting on. I'm afraid there isn't going to be a champion coming out on the other end.

    What's interesting is that I read somewhere of how a member on here sought out brokerage services for his premium 1-word domain. Apparently this broker shot down this individual's request, which seems baffling when you realize that the NP member sold it a short while later on his own. I, just as much as this member, was surprised domain brokers are in such demand, that they can turn down such requests without pouncing on an opportunity that presents itself.

    It is widely known, the handful of top brokers are overly selective, they decline even the cream of the crop, and they more often than not seem to have reached max capacity inventory-wise.

    Nothing is going to change, unless of course, someone /a group of people do something to bridge the gap. If these brokers see reported domain sales of mid-tier domains, as was a common sighting in the past, it might, and I mean might, just reopen their eyes, and revive their subdued interest.
     
  23. Windoms

    Windoms Established Member

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    I wasn't intending to ask @Mike Mann to make this happen with Hugemarket. It would be a terrible, not useful idea that would only attract basic spammers, really wasn't the point.
    Allowing us to collaborate on Undeveloped is the best option.

    I know, a couple months ago I contacted many brokerage firms with a domain of mine, most replies were the like of ''sorry but we only deal with 1 words''.
    The fault is mine for using the word ''broker'' and ''professional outbound'' together. It's being taken too seriously.

    But a collaborative space is always nice :). Especially when it can easily be implemented on @Undeveloped . I am not asking for a new platform, that would be terrible. Only improving an established platform by making it a little more collaborative.

    I don't recognize any domainer over there. Who'd go a such a place?

    @Kate Integrating this on Undeveloped won't hurt anyone. Beginners will continue to do beginner things whether alone or together. It will only benefit us.

    But it might hurt known brokers of the cartel. I mean establishment.
    Like new up and comers with proven track of records. From all over the world.
    Panic attack.

    @domainhubdotcom I am for integrating this into the established, leading platform, a.k.a Undeveloped.
    All things Sedo Efty etc.. good for them, not for us.

    And many more.
    As usual @Kate , thank you for your sustained coaching efforts and guiding us in the right direction.

     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
  24. Hustling

    Hustling Established Member

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    Yes, I agree wholeheartedly with you.
     
  25. Windoms

    Windoms Established Member

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    If we ever caught @fbi our leader is @Kate . I want half sentence double dinner be careful she wears disguise.

    Mid sized domainers all want this.
    Beginners want it too, but wtv.
    Rich domainers could have concierge looking after their property LOL!
     

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