POLL: Mixing Business & Politics??

[eyedomainous]

Please feel free to expand on your answer:
If so... why? If not... why?

The subject of mixing business and political expression, in NP forums, came-up in the "Iran Attack" thread. In it Mark, in one post, proclaims "I'm a Republican and damn proud of it !!!!". And in a later post states "... people lose possible business contacts this way .... It's just not good to combine the two IMO "- Why would I ever want to help someone profit that thinks they know more about my feelings than me ?? or Attacks my beliefs on a daily basis ?? and concludes with "some of them have domains I want right now , But guess what ? I wont buy them for 1 cent".

While his post also states... "I don't care about others beliefs / religions / or countries they live in when I'm looking at a domain to buy - UNLESS they are trying to shove it all down my throat .... - Then I'll just go to the next person. Maturity and ethics in this industry are what I look for first - Nothing else." I could not help but think that, coming from NP Staff, his post will have a chilling effect on political expression for members who are not proudly republican.

To be clear, I am not "picking a fight" with Mark. I'm just using his posts as a springboard to open a discussion on Business & Politics.

Personally, I put principles, like freedom of expression, above profit. Being "Open for Business" means, to me, that my business is open to and for everyone. I do not discriminate against race, religion/lack of religion, sex, sexual preference, political party or political viewpoints, etc., no matter how strongly expressed... as long as its legal and peaceful.

The domain industry... with extensions for many interests groups, every country and virually every language on earth, is by nature a very liberal market. Perhaps the most diverse market on the planet. Expect it to attract folks from all walks of life... including those with a strong passion to "shove their views down your throat". Republicans, religious people, and White folks seem to have no problem strongly (sometimes at gunpoint) pushing their political views, faith or culture down other people's throats. (Hey, sometimes people swallow-it, and convert.) So why is it such a problem when folks who are none of the above strongly push their views?

Whatever happened to leaders who say "I may not agree with your views but I will fight for your right to express them".

Please, try not to punish those with a different stride than your own. To do so will only result in reverse boycotting... and hamper your bottom line and the market's true potential. Let's not let a little thing like personal politics get in the way of doing business... unless its a case like Apartheid, in S. Africa, forced labor in China, ecologically destructive business practices -like the use of CFCs, etc..

You see... Business is politics because Politics is a business. Practice both with all the passion you can muster... and may the best ideas win! That's my opinion.

 

[dgridley]

Politics is in the eye of the beholder... I have no "political" agenda for posting per se. And I've never posted a thread with the intention of "bashing" anyone ..

Your post sounds as if you think I post with the intent to inflame and that's never been my intention. At most, I post to make people "think".

On that first page I see 30 threads of mine and perhaps 8 or 9 that could be considered to have political content (tho I'd argue whether I was strictly "politically motivated" in posting them all).

Surprisingly, I have never received a negative rep for a post.. that must say "something".

I dunno dave,I looked at your post topics,And there are quite a few that are politically motivated threads,That turn into heated bashing long term threads.Here they are http://www.namepros.com/search.php?...starteronly=1&exactname=1&searchuser=dgridley

 

[eyedomainous]

Well - to begin with - I stand behind ALL Statements ..... Even though they are now taken out of context. The "Republican and Damn proud of it" was in response to someone saying conservatives didn't care about the people who died on 9/11 .... And I'm not shoving that down anyones throat but the Person who stated that.

I did not realize, from reading the post I quoted, that your Republican remark was specifically in response to someone saying "conservatives didn't care about the people who died on 9/11", in an earlier post. The two statements seem distinctly different to me, and stand on their own... but no matter -- I regret you feel your words were taken out of context. That was not my intention... and I appreciate the clarification.

To end with - If this were a "Political Forum" of which I was staff on - I probably wouldn't state my views .... BUT IT ISN'T .... It's a "DOMAIN FORUM" where I have also stated I think there is no room for Political threads.

As far as I can tell it IS a "Political Forum" within a domain forum... hence the "Political threads". Keep in mind that domains are, from cradle to grave, a political forum. Set up by the U.S. Congress, steered by the governments of the world... with the U.N. waiting in the wings to manage it. The politicians have only sub-contracted out day-to day database services, and subsequent market management, to private industry.

In my view, it is wise for domainers to find a way to navigate through the political mindfield that is the domain of domains themselves. Avoiding "political issues" -in this... the name-binding industry of the World Wide Web... is NOT AN OPTION. We, as domainers, must step-up to do what we can to face the political challenges that threaten to fragment the web... and our industry. Those who do not have the stomach, or the mindset, for even political discussions amongts domainers should -at the very least, not muzzle those who do.

If you think the STAFF doesn't have feeling towards silly comments like the one about "Conservatives not caring for the People who Died on 9/11" or should respond , You are badly mistaken ....

No I Don't think that. Right-On! for stomping that beyond silly (and insulting) comment. I, for one, am glad you took part in the thread and spoke your mind. My points is, and its not personal, when someone, anyone, with more power than the average joe... say a judge (which is a power Staff members have) expresses that they don't do business with xyz types its bound to have a chilling impact on the speech of those xyz types with less power, that may one day may come before the judge.

Its not the end of the world... for a judge to say he or she will not do business with certain types of people, even if they are selling something the judge wants, but it does diminish, IMO, the "justice is blind" ethic within a given community... for those xyz people.

It just seems to me that once someone in power has openly declared that they will not do business with certain types of people... then its reasonable to conclude that these certain types of people will Not feel that they will be dealt with fairly on ANY issue that comes before that judge??

==========

I voted yes, because thats my opinion, but ultimatly, its not our choice, its up the the NP staff to decide that.....

I think that it is okay to have the threads as long as they are kept under control (wich I can understand if the staff does not want to deal with them, as all of us involved in them [some of them, not all], including myself, have crossed the line at one point or another).

* I will also like to take the time in this thread, to apologize to eyedomainous for the comments made in another thread, sorry, I crossed the line a little. *

Thank you for your considerate words, OulZac. If you feel, after some contemplation, that you have "crossed a line"... then seek to clear the air... then you have my deep respect... as you are a person of conscience.... with a passion for issues and communication. How much more Alive can one be?!?
I am glad to have had the opportunity to meet you... in cyberspace.

Thanks, also, for taking part in the poll.

Thanks for your input into this poll, CrazyTech. I address your points in my response to Mark. All, that is, except this one...

Really not worth the bytes it takes in the database up to respond to a statement like that. You're not making your point by making such ridiculous and grossly generalizing statements.

I don't agree that my statement...

Republicans, religious people, and White folks seem to have no problem strongly (sometimes at gunpoint) pushing their political views, faith or culture down other people's throats. (Hey, sometimes people swallow-it, and convert.) So why is it such a problem when folks who are none of the above strongly push their views?

is ridiculous. I think its safe to say, just to give one example, that if the consensous of the planet, via the UN, is against attacking a country... and a Republican administration does it anyway that that could be construed as "shoving it down the world's throat... regardless if the war is "right" or "wrong".

If you can be fair, and acknowledge that one historical fact, and also admit that the Republican party is mostly white and religious than... well... I got a point... even if you can't admit it.

 

[-db-]

I could not help but think that, coming from NP Staff, his post will have a chilling effect on political expression for members who are not proudly republican.

I'm not a Republican. I dislike political threads. And I found nothing about Mark's post making me feel any less motivated to speak my mind around him, whether I agree or disagree with him. It's also important to note the "911" remark that prompted his post.

And when one considers Mark's position usually has him playing referee to these type threads, keeping things under control for everybody else, helping to balance the peace of the community while chasing scammers and spammers all day - I think he's earned the right for the rare occasion to be human himself - and speak his own mind a little.

That's over-simplifying my views, but I don't want to be long winded.

As for the general topic of Political threads, Religious threads, etc.... I will have to wait and post my views on that later today/tonight because I'm very busy and also experiencing very bad ISP connection problems today.

 

[drifta]

i dislike politics becuase everyone doesnt want what i want!
but dont mind voicing my opinion or heraring others..

 

[CrazyTech]

I think its safe to say, just to give one example, that if the consensous of the planet, via the UN, is against attacking a country... and a Republican administration does it anyway that that could be construed as "shoving it down the world's throat... regardless if the war is "right" or "wrong".

Construed and facts can be completely different things my friend. Forcing war down the rest of the world's throat would have entitled us somehow forcing the UN or other countries into war and as you can see everyone who didn't want to go to war didn't go to war.

If you can be fair, and acknowledge that one historical fact, and also admit that the Republican party is mostly white and religious than... well... I got a point... even if you can't admit it.

Since when did your own stated opinion become a fact that everyone else has to accept? I think this is THE PERFECT example of why these threads ultimately break out into insult fests. You're complaining about Mark's statements after obviously not reading the rest of the thread, yet you're practically force feeding your own opinion right here in this thread after admonishing Mark for (in your own opinion) somehow forcing his own.

I suppose that I should also point out that this administration, under a Republican president, has put more minorities in powerful positions than any other president ever has and that is definitely a historical fact not an opinion trying to be a fact. Talk to Juan Williams or research it yourself.

 

[.X.]

I'm not a Republican. I dislike political threads. And I found nothing about Mark's post making me feel any less motivated to speak my mind around him, whether I agree or disagree with him. It's also important to note the "911" remark that prompted his post.

And when one considers Mark's position usually has him playing referee to these type threads, keeping things under control for everybody else, helping to balance the peace of the community while chasing scammers and spammers all day - I think he's earned the right for the rare occasion to be human himself - and speak his own mind a little.

That's over-simplifying my views, but I don't want to be long winded.

As for the general topic of Political threads, Religious threads, etc.... I will have to wait and post my views on that later today/tonight because I'm very busy and also experiencing very bad ISP connection problems today.

Very well said -db- ,If someone decides to start "Bashing" Which was the case imo.And at a specific member,That member has every right and will defend themselves.In this case.It just happened to be Mark.And in my opinion Mark was very tolerant and worded his return comment politly as to what he could have said. "refereeing" is great point. And exactly one of the reasons i dislike political threads here so much. If having to referee threads because people can't contain themselves from Bashing,Then politics don't need to be dicussed on here at NamePros.It has nothing to with free speach,And if free speech is abused,There are consequences,Look what happens when protesters and such cross the line with thier "free speech" .It is stopped by law. My thoughts are, Our comunity is one,And i personally enjoy the friendships i have here with people from all over the world, I've learned alot from them and they are good friends.When the comunity gets divided by those few members who choose to bash other countries then it all becomes personel with many people.There is absolutly no reason for this to happen.I know,There are those who will read this and say,That's taking free speech away.Your wrong.That's taking action on the fact that free speech is far abused here.My position will never change on political threads here at NamePros." BAN THEM FOR GOOD"

 

[dgridley]

So far, 313 views, 25 replies, and just 12 votes.. I'd infer the "Don't Care" apparently outweighs the ayes or nays.. maybe this is a "non issue"?

With 300+ views though, I'd again point out that threads with political overtones apparently hold interest to a large portion of the members.

By the way, the whole argument of "divisiveness" is ludicrous IMO.. our political systems are built on choices, left, right, middle of the road.. politics is naturally divisive. Not everyone will have the same opinion, but we can hopefully learn from the others to come closer to a common goal. The only way we can learn is by discussion.

 

[Mark]

I did not realize, from reading the post I quoted, that your Republican remark was specifically in response to someone saying "conservatives didn't care about the people who died on 9/11"

Well - you weren't reading it very well then .... It was mentioned either directly in my post - or in CrazyTech's right above it which I know I agreed with 100%.

I've gone out of my way to avoid political threads in this forum for the most part - and cant think of any I posted in beyond my staff duties in 7 or 8 months. It doesn't matter what particular group of people in the US he would have chose to say "they don't care about those people who died on 9/11" - The end result would have been the same from me , Because it was just WRONG.

No I Don't think that. Right-On! for stomping that beyond silly (and insulting) comment. I, for one, am glad you took part in the thread and spoke your mind. My points is, and its not personal, when someone, anyone, with more power than the average joe... say a judge (which is a power Staff members have) expresses that they don't do business with xyz types its bound to have a chilling impact on the speech of those xyz types with less power, that may one day may come before the judge.

Its not the end of the world... for a judge to say he or she will not do business with certain types of people, even if they are selling something the judge wants, but it does diminish, IMO, the "justice is blind" ethic within a given community... for those xyz people.

It just seems to me that once someone in power has openly declared that they will not do business with certain types of people... then its reasonable to conclude that these certain types of people will Not feel that they will be dealt with fairly on ANY issue that comes before that judge??

Yeah - Well If any of these last 3 paragraphs really bother you , You should have actually used "Judges" as an example and not me .... Because thats real life you're talking about - Every Judge from District Court right on up to the Supreme Court have set ways and beliefs that are all known to the world before they are placed in power.

This forum on the other hand isn't a politcal machine .... any items that pop up in here that I generally feel I'm close to are passed over by me - or I try to place to a vote behind the scenes. The only time(s) it isn't is when something needs doing immediately to protect the members or the forum itself .... and even then I place the item somewhere to be seen by other staff and forum leaders -or- complete disrespect and attacking Staff/Forum Leaders because of a Warning or banning handed out by them .....

And No I don't consider the comment in the other thread a case of this - or any statements in this thread either. Having a differing opinion is a long stretch from some of the things We have done to us or are called occasionally ..... Most of which I could never even mention in an open forum myself.

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David - the part about these threads bringing in more traffic or revenue might be right - But is it the traffic we want ? I really cant see a tie there .... If someone reads these political threads and gets irate or pleased enough to sign up and post - What makes them a potential domainer / designer / etc .... ?
I was looking through some of the members who signed up more than once this past week (duplicate accounts) and at least one set of them had politically based emails .... They were too much in a hurry to get in here evidently to wait on their membership to be approved and signed up again on the same day - breaking one of our rules before they even posted.

I relate this to the Gmail craze .... While a lot of us were involved (or to blame) in that tidal wave of traffic coming in - I doubt much of it was of use to the Forum as a whole. They just wanted gmail accounts or to sell them IMO.

 

[dgridley]

Well, I wasn't thinking of the threads bring in new members, just looking at the number of views and relating it to your stement regarding revenue sharing.. revenue sharing is a 2 way street, the forum and the poster benefit if the thread is read enough.

As I've said, I've never conciously posted a thread with revenue sharing or NP$ in mind but I do see a correlation between different types of threads and views. And, believe me, I'm not getting rich off clicks from threads here, lol!

I'd never thought of these threads attracting "undesirables", just thinking they give current members a place to express or exchange viewpoints. I've always felt the opt-out warning was and should be enough for 99.9% of the members.

Heck, we used to have flame wars in the Jeff Corwin forum on Animal Planet over Jeff's episodes.. those who will flame don't need politics as an excuse. Trolls and flamers can be found everywhere on the Net.

David - the part about these threads bringing in more traffic or revenue might be right - But is it the traffic we want ? I really cant see a tie there .... If someone reads these political threads and gets irate or pleased enough to sign up and post - What makes them a potential domainer / designer / etc .... ?
I was looking through some of the members who signed up more than once this past week (duplicate accounts) and at least one set of them had politically based emails .... They were too much in a hurry to get in here evidently to wait on their membership to be approved and signed up again on the same day - breaking one of our rules before they even posted.

I relate this to the Gmail craze .... While a lot of us were involved (or to blame) in that tidal wave of traffic coming in - I doubt much of it was of use to the Forum as a whole. They just wanted gmail accounts or to sell them IMO.

 

[.X.]

Well, I wasn't thinking of the threads bring in new members, just looking at the number of views and relating it to your stement regarding revenue sharing.. revenue sharing is a 2 way street, the forum and the poster benefit if the thread is read enough.

As I've said, I've never conciously posted a thread with revenue sharing or NP$ in mind but I do see a correlation between different types of threads and views. And, believe me, I'm not getting rich off clicks from threads here, lol!

I'd never thought of these threads attracting "undesirables", just thinking they give current members a place to express or exchange viewpoints. I've always felt the opt-out warning was and should be enough for 99.9% of the members.

Heck, we used to have flame wars in the Jeff Corwin forum on Animal Planet over Jeff's episodes.. those who will flame don't need politics as an excuse. Trolls and flamers can be found everywhere on the Net.

It's really pretty simple,If you say the .com TLD sucks,I don't even look at the post a second time,If you bash my country,I take it personally,And i would think most would.What is so hard here to understand???????? If your hinging your position on free speech dave,You need to look at all the GOOD members that have been banned here because they used thier right of "Free Speech" to defend themselves,Also consider the fact that political threads divide our comunity,Is that a good thing??? It has gone beyond the right of free speech imo.It has become a thorn in NamePros side imo,And just needs to go where a MAJORITY of people wanna discuss politics,Bash countries,Insult personally and ect.We have 25K members here,And you speak about 6 votes or whatever.Ever think people don't wanna get involved???

 

[eyedomainous]

Well - you weren't reading it very well then .... It was mentioned either directly in my post - or in CrazyTech's right above it which I know I agreed with 100%.

A statement about being a "proud republican" does not seem to be a direct response to someone who says "conservatives do not care about the victims of 9/11." But you claim NOW that it was. So be it. However, you did not connect the two in your post. What does being a proud republican have to do with the victims of 9/11?? Had you said... speaking as a conservative, we care about the victims of 9/11... what we don't care for is silly statements by.... --then you would have actually addressed the issue at hand. Also, not all republicans are conservatives and not all democrats are liberal. My reading is fine... perhaps you did'nt write your reply very well.

Yeah - Well If any of these last 3 paragraphs really bother you , You should have actually used "Judges" as an example and not me .... Because thats real life you're talking about - Every Judge from District Court right on up to the Supreme Court have set ways and beliefs that are all known to the world before they are placed in power.

This forum on the other hand isn't a politcal machine .... any items that pop up in here that I generally feel I'm close to are passed over by me - or I try to place to a vote behind the scenes. The only time(s) it isn't is when something needs doing immediately to protect the members or the forum itself .... and even then I place the item somewhere to be seen by other staff and forum leaders -or- complete disrespect and attacking Staff/Forum Leaders because of a Warning or banning handed out by them .....

And No I don't consider the comment in the other thread a case of this - or any statements in this thread either. Having a differing opinion is a long stretch from some of the things We have done to us or are called occasionally ..... Most of which I could never even mention in an open forum myself.

Other than the tone, in your and -X-'s, attacks... I mean posts :hehe: nothing bothers me in this or any other thread you and x post in... including, as I recall, -X-'s post, in december... where he openly bashed liberals in a thread that accused "liberals of taking christ out of christmas". He said he loved it (bashing liberals). When I responded... explaining that liberals have not taken christ out christmas... my post was censored-out of the thread (ummm, I wonder by who... on a technicality no doubt appraisal).... so, it appears you two have an advantage over me, in this forum, and that liberal bashing is o'k but conservative criticism is not.

As far as your comment that this is domain forum is not political.... gimme me a break. You two, plus crazy -makes 3, function as republican cheerleaders & "attack dogs", IMO. Not to mention flags as avatars, pro this or that country statements, etc. --which is all fine in my book.

The bottom line is, in a sense I agree with you about divisive politics in this domain forum. I joined NP with bizness in mind, in late Nov. -but when I came across the blatant and disgusting liberal bashing post, in dec. -and my challenge to that post was edited out -without so much as a word.... it just disappeared as if it was not ever posted. So from my perspective... it seems that politics in NP is fine as long as it is your politics.

 

[.X.]

A statement about being a "proud republican" does not seem to be a direct response to someone who says "conservatives do not care about the victims of 9/11." But you claim NOW that it was. So be it. However, you did not connect the two in your post. What does being a proud republican have to do with the victims of 9/11?? Had you said... speaking as a conservative, we care about the victims of 9/11... what we don't care for is silly statements by.... --then you would have actually addressed the issue at hand. Also, not all republicans are conservatives and not all democrats are liberal. My reading is fine... perhaps you did'nt write your reply very well.




Other than the tone, in your and -X-'s, attacks... I mean posts :hehe: nothing bothers me in this or any other thread you and x post in... including, as I recall, -X-'s post, in december... where he openly bashed liberals in a thread that accused "liberals of taking christ out of christmas". He said he loved it (bashing liberals). When I responded... explaining that liberals have not taken christ out christmas... my post was censored-out of the thread (ummm, I wonder by who... on a technicality no doubt appraisal).... so, it appears you two have an advantage over me, in this forum, and that liberal bashing is o'k but conservative criticism is not.

As far as your comment that this is domain forum is not political.... gimme me a break. You two, plus crazy -makes 3, function as republican cheerleaders & "attack dogs", IMO. Not to mention flags as avatars, pro this or that country statements, etc. --which is all fine in my book.

The bottom line is, in a sense I agree with you about divisive politics in this domain forum. I joined NP with bizness in mind, in late Nov. -but when I came across the blatant and disgusting liberal bashing post, in dec. -and my challenge to that post was edited out -without so much as a word.... it just disappeared as if it was not ever posted. So from my perspective... it seems that politics in NP is fine as long as it is your politics.

OOOOOOOOOOOO hold up here! Lemme tell you something...I walk alone in this thread,There is no "team" or whatever your talking about.Iam speaking for myself and no one else.I do remember the christmas thread,And yes,I did say that. And that was ridiculous imo.But it wouldn't bother me one bit,If you went and campained or whatever your doing elsewhere.Although your mud slingin is comical.It's getting old.And NO,I don't agree with having ANY politics in this forum...Period....But as i have said,Bash my country,personal bashing,and i will be there to answer.

 

[Eric]

A statement about being a "proud republican" does not seem to be a direct response to someone who says "conservatives do not care about the victims of 9/11." But you claim NOW that it was. So be it. However, you did not connect the two in your post. What does being a proud republican have to do with the victims of 9/11?? Had you said... speaking as a conservative, we care about the victims of 9/11... what we don't care for is silly statements by.... --then you would have actually addressed the issue at hand. Also, not all republicans are conservatives and not all democrats are liberal. My reading is fine... perhaps you did'nt write your reply very well.

http://www.namepros.com/showpost.php?p=1089832&postcount=58
http://www.namepros.com/showpost.php?p=1089844&postcount=59
http://www.namepros.com/showpost.php?p=1089867&postcount=60

You can't see that? Or am I missing something here?

Other than the tone, in your and -X-'s, attacks... I mean posts :hehe: nothing bothers me in this or any other thread you and x post in... including, as I recall, -X-'s post, in december... where he openly bashed liberals in a thread that accused "liberals of taking christ out of christmas". He said he loved it (bashing liberals). When I responded... explaining that liberals have not taken christ out christmas... my post was censored-out of the thread (ummm, I wonder by who... on a technicality no doubt appraisal).... so, it appears you two have an advantage over me, in this forum, and that liberal bashing is o'k but conservative criticism is not.

I'd like to see that thread.

As far as your comment that this is domain forum is not political.... gimme me a break. You two, plus crazy -makes 3, function as republican cheerleaders & "attack dogs", IMO. Not to mention flags as avatars, pro this or that country statements, etc. --which is all fine in my book.

The bottom line is, in a sense I agree with you about divisive politics in this domain forum. I joined NP with bizness in mind, in late Nov. -but when I came across the blatant and disgusting liberal bashing post, in dec. -and my challenge to that post was edited out -without so much as a word.... it just disappeared as if it was not ever posted. So from my perspective... it seems that politics in NP is fine as long as it is your politics.

Not gonna waste my time replying to that load of BS.

 

[CrazyTech]

The irony and hypocrisy is this thread is quite laughable at this point. I do appreciate the chuckle. Again, earlier you spoke so harshly about people shoving their beliefs down other's throats but now you're trying to tell another member what they said...or at least what you think/feel they said.

As far as your comment that this is domain forum is not political.... gimme me a break. You two, plus crazy -makes 3, function as republican cheerleaders & "attack dogs", IMO. Not to mention flags as avatars, pro this or that country statements, etc. --which is all fine in my book.

We're all attack dogs when you don't agree with us right? Make up your mind. If you want to openly discuss politics then go ahead but be prepared for people not to agree. Don't come crying that you're "being attacked" when someone doesn't agree with you either because that's all you're doing here.

So from my perspective... it seems that politics in NP is fine as long as it is your politics.

And that's why your other posts bashing conservatives in this very thread still remain there. I suppose NP is somehow another bastion of the far right movement in America.

Heck, we used to have flame wars in the Jeff Corwin forum on Animal Planet over Jeff's episodes.. those who will flame don't need politics as an excuse. Trolls and flamers can be found everywhere on the Net.

Agreed but one thing I must point out is this is not discussion about Jeff Corwin. Many people have strong feelings about their own country and when certain statements are said they will set off fireworks.

 

[Mark]

I have to say - no post above were attacks at all .....


If I called you a Moron or an Idiot - That would be an attack .......

But I didn't ..... Despite my Beliefs ....

 

[dgridley]

I personally have no problem with people expressing their views, defending their views, trying to convince me my views should reflect theirs.. to me, that's what discussion forums are about, even domain forums.

I mentioned Jeff Corwin because the "discussions" there have become every bit as heated over one of his episodes as they have here over domain appraisals or politics.. it's the nature of the beast IMO.

When all is said and done, it's up to the admins whether or not to allow this sort of discussion.. I'll abide by whatever is decided (which I thought was decided the last time we "voted" on this issue).