PayPal Ripping Me Off

[tnitty]

Paypal took something like 4% of my parking revenue from last month. It doesn't sound like much, but it added up to more than $100.

I don't understand. They sent me a message saying I'm only allowed to receive $500 per month before being charged. But I've earned much more than that for the past six months (when I started parking my domains), and never got charged before. Not sure why they suddenly decided to do this to my account now.

More importantly, though, is there a way to avoid this? Is this due to the fact that the parking co. I use doesn't have 'mass pay' or something? (I've heard of it, but don't know what it is, so I'm guessing...).

I don't want to switch parking co's. Is there a suggestion I can make to them or something I can do on my end? It seems like a total rip-off. I suppose I could have them send me a check each month, instead of using PayPal. But I'm hoping for an electronic solution, since the parking co is in a foreign country.

Thanks

p.s., is there a viable alternative to PayPal? I know Google has some 'checkout' thing, or something, but I don't see it used anywhere. Anything else? It seems like PayPal has a monopoly and is abusing it. Credit card co's charge only 1 or 2 percent (I think). PayPal's a great service, but there's no reason on earth why they deserve $100 for processing a routine transaction. What a joke.

 

[shockie]

personal accounts have a monthly receiving limit of $500 USD.

you can see this by logging into paypal, and clicking "view limits" beside "manage currency".

 

[rodash]

I'm on Tnitty's side. He's right, they are ripping us off and the amazing thing is that no-one ever speaks out about it. People either appear to be s**t scared to say something or else they are apathetic about the entire thing. They don't want to rock the boat or they are frightened of losing their PayPal account.

PayPal's fees are outrageous, especially when you consider that everything they do is automated - there is very little manpower involved in their operations. It's cheaper to make wire transactions than use PayPal, and that's saying a lot because bank wire transfers aren't cheap. Paypal is greedy - they could charge a lot less than they do and still make a lot of money.

What I can't understand is why there is no competition to PayPal. A major finance operator could come in and do what they do at a fraction of the cost to users and still be extremely profitable.

What worries me is that because no-one is making a move in the online sector, PayPal is getting all the business and establishing itself as the defacto online payment service. That is a BIG worry.

PayPal could have taken 1% of Tnitty's parking revenue and still made a lot of money for its shareholders. What's the matter with PayPal, is it's CEO just hell bent on being greedy?

I'm throwing out a challenge to financial institutions - get your act together and offer people a viable and fair way of doing transactions online and you will make an incredible amount of money. People will come across to you because they are sick of there being no alternative to PayPal!

 

[shockie]

i would also like to see lower paypal fees, but there are a few things i'd like to mention, just so people see things from the other side as well:

- up until this month, tnitty has been receiving money at no fee, even though s/he has gone over his/her receiving limit for the past six months

- paypal is a company and should be charging fees for their service. it would make sense that they have a free/cheap method for those with few transactions (ie, personal accounts), but should be charging more for those with more transactions (ie, premier/business accounts).

- if there are any payment processors out there that are truly better than paypal in terms of ease of use, price, security, etc, then don't worry - they will eventually be used much more. but keep in mind that paypal is much bigger/secure/easy than anything out there and has been even prior to the ebay buyout.

 

[rodash]

i would also like to see lower paypal fees, but there are a few things i'd like to mention, just so people see things from the other side as well:

- up until this month, tnitty has been receiving money at no fee, even though s/he has gone over his/her receiving limit for the past six months

- paypal is a company and should be charging fees for their service. it would make sense that they have a free/cheap method for those with few transactions (ie, personal accounts), but should be charging more for those with more transactions (ie, premier/business accounts).

- if there are any payment processors out there that are truly better than paypal in terms of ease of use, price, security, etc, then don't worry - they will eventually be used much more. but keep in mind that paypal is much bigger/secure/easy than anything out there and has been even prior to the ebay buyout.

With all due respect, Shockie, everyone I talk to complains about PayPal fees and you are the first person I've come across that sings their praises. PayPal will indeed be pleased with your support.

The simple fact is their fees are outrageous, and unnecessarily high. I've worked with computers for 27 years and I can tell you that automation has made online transactions so inexpensive for financial institutions that there is no valid reason Paypal has to charge the fees it charges to generate good profits for its shareholders. Financial fees were supposed to go down with the advent of computers and the online revolution so why is PayPal charging more now than bank wire fees? If I buy a $3000 dot com domain name it costs me more to buy it using PayPal than to wire the fee through to Sedo. That says ait all.

 

[shockie]

first of all, i'm not sure how looking at the situation objectively is considered "singing their praises", especially when i agreed in the above post that i would like to see the fees lowered.

there is much more to a business than computer costs (marketing for example). as i said in my last point above, if there really are payment processors out there that can easily beat paypal overall, then more power to them and i hope they succeed. and just in case you missed this side of paypal as well; paypal was not made for your personal domaining needs, but also has a bunch of other tools etc for merchants.

paypal has a place in the online payment arena, but obviously it should not be used for transactions in the $xxxx range - wire transfers should.

 

[PowerUp]

I don't think it will be able to overtake Paypal because paypal has reached the critical mass long long time ago. Sellers use it because almost all online buyers have 1 paypal a/c. Buyers use because almost all sellers offer paypal as a payment method. And these groups of people will just increase.

The only way to compete against paypal is for an entity with very solid financial strength and alot of money to throw away for a many years to come. For the sellers, then this entity could offer a flat nominal fee, say only $0.30 for every transaction. No % fee. For the buyers, no fee for funding or loading your account. Only this way will encourage sellers and buyers to switch away from Paypal.

Of course it's not as simple as that, because you still need to deal with ebay.

 

[Sleepys]

I have spoken out against Paypal on this board before. Whenever I hear ebay discussed like this is makes me want to prech the gospel, so please excuse the length of this post.

It is wishful thinking if you beleive that just because a company is easier to use or charges less fees, that they will eventually take over. As people on here have mentioned, Paypal has critical mass and will continue to grow now because they are so established in online transactions. The main reason that they took over, was because ebay created a monopoly in online auctions, and then abused their monopoly by systematically removing all payment types except for slow checks/money orders and Paypal. Microsoft got in trouble for adding free features to their operating system. They gave us things we wanted for free, like a browser, which effectively put companies who wanted to sell us these free products out of business. Ebay abuses their monopoly in the same way, only it is to their benefit, not ours. They cut out bidpay and other online payment systems and drove them out of business, but they did not do this by giving us free stuff or incentives, they did it by blocking our access to the other services, through their monopoly. It would be nice if Google could make inroads with Checkout or someone else, but ebay has already successfully bullied Google and won http://blogoscoped.com/forum/99010.html/

If anyone thinks that the Paypal fees are going down (ever) they are also mistaked. I have been on ebay for a long time and have seen fees increase at ebay every single year, sometimes more than once in a year. Paypal occasionally follows suit. I have never seen them drop fees for more than a 1 or 2 day promotion. If anyone needs any more proof that all ebay and Paypal is concerned about is maintaining their monopoly and raising fees, then you simply need to look at last quarters earnings conference call. Ebay grew revenues by 30% and a 53% increase in earnings, despite a 5% drop in listings. That's right, they made 50% more money on 5% less listings. I do remember how many ebay stores closed down when they rose store listing prices by 500% a while ago.

If anyone needs any independent verification, please visit http://www.paypalsucks.com (winner of the Forbes Magazine best of the web of 2002 and 2005, and yes it is a something-sucks site and still won).

Finally, I found this long report by a whistle blower, that really opens some eyes so I attached it to this post. There are so many other problems with ebay/paypal besides what I have spoken about here, but I will say this again, I don't know anyone who has ever had a serious problem with Paypal, until they have come after you for something or screwed you over in some way. That is probably why it has taken the government so long to act against their monoploy. Because so many people still seem to love them.

One last thing to keep in mind. Ebay intentionally does not remove all of the fraud from their website, because then they would have to admit to people "we actually have fraud rates of somewhere between 5%-10%, rather than what they currently say, which is like 1%-1.5%. They don't want to catch all of the fraud going on, because they would have to report it (unless they really wanted to flagrantly lie).

 

[netmeg]

Actually, it's more likely that as it grows, Paypal will become more and more subject to federal regulation (at least in this country) As it is, the major banks have long complained that Paypal behaves like a bank but is not subject to many of the same regulations the banking industry is. I suspect that at some point, something will have to give. Paypal/eBay is big, but it's not bigger than the combined efforts of Citibank, Chase, etc etc.

 

[Sleepys]

Actually, it's more likely that as it grows, Paypal will become more and more subject to federal regulation (at least in this country) As it is, the major banks have long complained that Paypal behaves like a bank but is not subject to many of the same regulations the banking industry is. I suspect that at some point, something will have to give. Paypal/eBay is big, but it's not bigger than the combined efforts of Citibank, Chase, etc etc.

This is a good post, and a very valid theory. Recently ebay actually got approved for its banking licence in Europe. What I found funny, is that the stock actually dropped on the news. I guess investors realized that the closer they become to a real financial institution, the more regulation they would be subject to. Europe is also not so lax on monoploies usually either.

It is true that Paypal/eBay is not bigger than the combined efforts of Citibank, Chase and the various other money center banks. I would argue that even though they are not bigger, ebay/paypal wield more power online and have more clout for these frequent online purchases that we use Paypal for. Also, unless the banks do team up to offer us a combined competitor (not a merger which would probably not be allowed, but some sort of joint venture), I don't see them do anything different than they have always done, which is offer us the same credit card transactions and the same wire-transfers as they always have.

 

[netmeg]

The role I see for the banks is lobbying hard for the government to crack down on Paypal, and decide once and for all if it's a bank, and thus subject to banking regulations, or else curtailing some of its operations. The banks believe that Paypal has an unfair competitive edge; they are working to get that changed, and I think eventually it will get changed.

 

[biohammer]

people just upgrade to a premier or business account with PayPal and stop complaining you will have higher limits for free . You have to verify a few more things like phone number etc . I have never been charged to receive money on my premiere account. And PayPal has gotten money back for me from bad sellers. PayPal is Great!! to me

 

[Sleepys]

The role I see for the banks is lobbying hard for the government to crack down on Paypal, and decide once and for all if it's a bank, and thus subject to banking regulations, or else curtailing some of its operations. The banks believe that Paypal has an unfair competitive edge; they are working to get that changed, and I think eventually it will get changed.

I did not know that the banks had been lobbying for it already, but that certainly makes sense. I think that it will also be a combination of pressure from established companies (banks and maybe some internet companies as well) and enough customer complaints. I don't think that the government knows how bad it is. They just hear about how many people now make there living off of ebay, not how many people did make there living on ebay once and now are unable. You hear some stories about someone supporting themselves and their families through ebay, and someone buys something from them with a hacked account or stolen credit card and now there account is frozen. They kept all of the money that they bought inventory with in Paypal, and now they can't buy inventory. Even if they could they wouldn't be able to get as much selling it without being able to accept Paypal. Now they don't know what to do for their families. It is very tragic.

One thing I find funny. For all of the problems I have ever had with them, and for all of the problems I have heard friends have with them. When I researched them online, I find that they have already been sued for the exactly same problem, and they always settle out of court and promise not to do it again. Then it is right back to their old tricks and on to someone else to foot the bill for new lawyers fees to prosecute them.

As I said though, I am sure that the government will eventually force ebay and paypal to split up. You can have a monoploy that develops naturally, not through mergers or takeovers. That monopoly doesn't really become illegal until you use it to control another market or gain an unfair advantage in another market. I think that it should not be hard to prove that is exactly what ebay is doing. Hopefully the banks can help speed up the process

 

[namedesire]

PayPal has been sued on numerous occasion,as they were at one time not disclosing they were not a bank ,also paypal is owned now by ebay,here is a link on paypal nightmares..www.paypalsucks.com They also can seize your account at any time..

Ihave not had this prob as of yet ...

direct deposit could also be an alt to paypal..

Sadly, Paypal routinely freezes its customers' accounts for almost anything and without warning. Once an account is frozen, the funds are often held by PayPal for months on end with Absolutely No Recourse for the merchant.

 

[Aquasparkle]

As I read through many of the post above I'm just floored how many of you feel that you should be receiving your paypal services for free or at a discount. That thinking is absurd. Thety are offering you a service and you are not obligated to use their service. You've made the choice to do so and they are entitled to be paid for their role in the transaction. If you really don't like it, wait for a check to be mailed to you.

 

[Sleepys]

As I read through many of the post above I'm just floored how many of you feel that you should be receiving your paypal services for free or at a discount. That thinking is absurd.

I think that you need to read through the many posts above, because I don't see a single person argueing that Paypal should be free to use and charge no fees. Everyone on here I think understands the mechanics of business and that if a company charges nothing it can't survive. The point of many posts on here is that Paypal charges too much and that they do many things that are simply wrong and actually illegal. They can certainly raise their prices, but when they develop a monopoly, they can not raise them egregiously. It has been the same for your local utility company or cable company, they had a monopoly in your area and the government regulated their increases. I think that an increase every single year is a little excessive, especially when those increases are routinely 5-20 times the rate that inflation is increasing. I think that 2 increases in a year is extremely excessive, especially when they increased store listing fees by 500% with no notice, driving many ebay store sellers out of business.

Thety are offering you a service and you are not obligated to use their service. You've made the choice to do so and they are entitled to be paid for their role in the transaction.

This point is simply not valid. I think that the reason this thread was started, was because we don't have a choice, at least in certain regards. If you want to sell anything besides a domain on an online auction, you have 1 choice. If you accept that choice, then for payments, you have basically 1 choice. This is a direct result of their monopoly, and they abuse it. You may not want to hear about it, but I am glad that some people are finally starting to speak out against them. Maybe something will actually be done about them.

 

[DJ-Sound]

I always get a good laugh when people complain about paypal fees, get a real merchant account, pay usually higher fees, and have to wait 2-3 days before having access to your money...paypal is paypal for a darn good reason, if you believe anyone is "ripping you off" why not request checks or wires instead of paypal payments?

 

[Sleepys]

I always get a good laugh when people complain about paypal fees, get a real merchant account, pay usually higher fees, and have to wait 2-3 days before having access to your money

My friends who have merchant account pay less than Paypal. 2-3 days is great compared to Paypal's 4-7 days (they say 4 business days, so if you do it on a Wednesday, it takes 7 full days, Thursday takes 6, etc.).

paypal is paypal for a darn good reason

Illegal Monopoly.

paypal is paypal for a darn good reason, if you believe anyone is "ripping you off" why not request checks or wires instead of paypal payments?

I do use wires for domain related payments. It is more convenient to get paid by a parking company that way. It is simply not an option when using ebay though, unless you want to get less money for your items.

Finally, I think that it is funny that all of these people are coming on here saying things like "just don't complian and use someone else". I don't see you guys saying that when someone complains about Sedo or some parking comapny. "Just stop complaining about it publicly so other people can hear what is wrong with the company and use someone else." That is not the proper way to get action taken if you think that some company is ripping you off.

 

[netmeg]

My main issues with PayPal have to do with their security, and not their fees.

But if in fact they are behaving as a bank does, and conducting bank-like transactions, then they should, in all fairness, be subject to the same rules and regulations that the banks are.

 

[DnFloorCEO]

Somebody transferred a small amount of money to me, and Paypal took 27% of it.