Pacers-Pistons Brawl

[Chris]

Hey Everyone

I'm sure most of you have either saw or heard about the Pacers and Pistons Brawl at the Friday Night game in Detroit. What do you all think about the situation and the consequences that David Stern has issued? There hasn't been any sports discussions here since the World Series so thought I'd start up a discussion on the game.

I personally think it was ridiculous that the players jumped into the seats to attack the fans as they are suppose to be professionals so it shouldn't matter what was said or done to provoke them. They should be professional enough to bite the bullet and ignore the fans if they are getting under their skin instead of going after them. The suspensions of the 9 players for a total of 142 games is definitely a fair punishment considering that the fans were in danger and the players not only made themselves look like fools but the whole National Basketball Association as a whole.

The suspension that Ron Artest received of 73 games (rest of the season) is certainly a fair and great move in my opinion as he has had a lot of childish behavior over the years that has lead up to this point. Sure someone can make the argument that he had beer thrown at him but he's a professional making millions a year so he should of taken the classy route and ignored the fan. There was only 45.9 seconds left of the game when it occured so he should of worried about finishing out the game instead of snapping and creating a brawl which ended up costing him the season without pay.

Hopefully the fans who were punched and attacked will press charges against the players as something more than just a suspension needs to be done. The fans should be able to go to a sports game and enjoy it without worrying that the players are going to jump into the crowd and start throwing fists. That should be left to the boxing Industry and World Wrestling Entertainment, not the NBA.

Let's hear your thoughts and opinions with this situation. :wave:

 

[LeeRyder]

I agree..he deserved what he got. No play and no PAY (very important here) means he is being appropriatly punished for being a smacktard.

hopefully the loss of several million dollars will teach him a lesson.

 

[True_Snake]

I think the punishment was a little TOO severe. I saw a former player on TV today, and he said something like "If someone throws something at a player, let him 'beat the hell out of him!'"

I was laughing when I saw the fight. They were beating the crap out of each other.

:lol: These people get high when they get tons of money!

So yeah, I think the punishment was a bit too severe, but regardless, he would learn a lesson.

My opinion!


True_Snake

 

[Miloj]

Hey Everyone

I'm sure most of you have either saw or heard about the Pacers and Pistons Brawl at the Friday Night game in Detroit. What do you all think about the situation and the consequences that David Stern has issued? There hasn't been any sports discussions here since the World Series so thought I'd start up a discussion on the game.

I personally think it was ridiculous that the players jumped into the seats to attack the fans as they are suppose to be professionals so it shouldn't matter what was said or done to provoke them. They should be professional enough to bite the bullet and ignore the fans if they are getting under their skin instead of going after them. The suspensions of the 9 players for a total of 142 games is definitely a fair punishment considering that the fans were in danger and the players not only made themselves look like fools but the whole National Basketball Association as a whole.

The suspension that Ron Artest received of 73 games (rest of the season) is certainly a fair and great move in my opinion as he has had a lot of childish behavior over the years that has lead up to this point. Sure someone can make the argument that he had beer thrown at him but he's a professional making millions a year so he should of taken the classy route and ignored the fan. There was only 45.9 seconds left of the game when it occured so he should of worried about finishing out the game instead of snapping and creating a brawl which ended up costing him the season without pay.

Hopefully the fans who were punched and attacked will press charges against the players as something more than just a suspension needs to be done. The fans should be able to go to a sports game and enjoy it without worrying that the players are going to jump into the crowd and start throwing fists. That should be left to the boxing Industry and World Wrestling Entertainment, not the NBA.

Let's hear your thoughts and opinions with this situation. :wave:

I think the punishment was way too severe. Now fans can basically do whatever the hell they want and get away with it because they know nothing will happen. I think that fans should be able to go watch and not worry about being in a fight but this was caused by a FAN not by Artest. Yes Artest is a professional and he should've thought about it more and not reacted like that but despite that it was started by a dumbass fan throwing something at a player. I think the fan who threw that as well as the ones in the fight should be banned from pro sports for life. that's what they should do to those stupid a$$es. You have to remember that although they are pros they are also human, what would you do if after being in an altercation like ron artest was (just getting pushed and shit yelled to him by ben wallace) if someone threw a beer and hit you? honestly in the spur of the moment would you stop and think 'wait im a pro'? probably not.

 

[MSX]

Ok here goes...

Artest did not deserve that...he fouled Ben Wallace, Wallace shoved him by the face, and then Artest decided to chill and not get ejected by laying on the commentator table, then a fan threw a cup of beer on him, what's he supposed to do? Act like a normal person and say "hey that's cool, no worries!", no, because no normal person does that. You say they're 'professionals'...and people who work in offices, at design firms, and doctor offices aren't? I'm sure anyone working in one of the named professions/jobs would have reacted the same. Anyways, he goes, pushes/clothelines the one fan, then while everyone is holding him back, some old Detroit fan just decides to punch him, yeah, normal people would just take it and not do anything back, nope, not at all, anyone would react and defend themselves...the guy had NO reason to do that. Then Artest was coming out of the stands, and two fans walk up to him and try to get big...so then Artest lays one guy out, and then both fans start hitting him, then he backs off by himself and by the assistant coaches. That, would be the most uncalled for thing at all, well, anything dealing with Artest. I think it was O'neal, but whoever it was came running down the court and smashed the friend of the fan who got punched by Artest..which was funny.

Now the way I was talking makes it seem like it was only the Pacer's fault...nope, I definitely feel that Wallace started this, he shouldn't act like a b-tch, and should just take a foul like any other NBA player would.

In conclusion: Artest should've got something like 30 games, maybe 35....the remainder of the season is definitely uncalled for.

Thanks for listening!
Nate

 

[Evilhaider]

More needs to be done

The penalties for the players involved are all well and good but the fans involved should NOT get a free pass.

If I buy a ticket and go to a basketball game, I go to be ENTERTAINED. I go to support my team. Buying that ticket gives me the right to sit there and enjoy the sport, cheer for my team and have fun. It does NOT give me the right to throw stuff at players of the opposing team. Taunting/provoking goes on at ALL games but as soon as something is thrown, a line has been crossed and there SHOULD be consequences. Yes, some players let it get out of hand, but they are now paying for it. They will all lose A LOT of money which of course will remind them they wouldn't have ANY Of it without the fans who pay to support the sport. But, where are the consequences for the fans? To tell you the truth, I was more disgusted by the way people were throwing everything they could get their hands on at the Indiana players than the fight itself. You saw the players being escorted out through the tunnel and every idiot within arms length of the tunnel reached over to throw/pour something. I'm sure some of these fans involved in the actual physical fights will want to file lawsuits and line their pockets a bit. By the same token, they should pursue legal options to prosecute the fans involved for their misconduct. NOT doing so would send a message to the fans that this kind of behavior is tolerable. You know what they say - Fool me once, shame on you; Fool me twice, shame on me.

You can bet your a$$ half those people wouldn't DARE pick a fight with someone the size of the average NBA player without sitting in a cushy little chair where they would be safe from retaliation.

 

[johnny6]

Well... I dunno. Ron Artest is a punk of mammoth proportions. His past history certainly contributed to the suspension, and I think in this case, justly so. Sort of a three strikes and your out system. That's reasonable isn't it? Why would you run into the stands and punch a fan? I mean, he's so dumb he hit the wrong fan (that guy he hit had a cup in his hands, so chances are slim he actually threw anothe one, lol). He threw a cup of ice... yes, that's not cool, but does that deserve an assault from a seriously deranged player? Artest should not have been lying on the scorer's table in the first place.
I like the fact that David Stern laid down the law. The punishment was probably meant as a deterrent - to keep that nonsense from happening again ever. Hopefully it never does happen again, we'll see.
Also, they should either a) stop serving beer at games (although that would hugely suck) or b) move the stands back a bit... c) most unlikely - have like a breathalyzer each time you buy a beer. Fans shouldn't be able to throw things on players.... and they shouldn't be so drunk that they do.
What odds do you want that Artest will be the first player to be permanently expelled from the NBA next season? He's a nutcase!
Go Jazz!

P.S.
Also, as far as lawsuits, it's not clear to me that throwing ice is assault and battery... whereas what Artest did was aggravated assault....

 

[The Equivocate]

Right now, I think the penalty was too severe. However, I think that if Stern really pushes to have the involved fans charged with assault and other various crimes, then it will show that he wants to protect his players. Until then, the penalty has been unfair to Ron Artest. If you were walking down the street and you saw him, you wouldn't dare throw a cup of ice in his face unless you wanted to get your ass kicked. Same should go for a basketball game - the fans should not be exempt from the law.

 

[johnny6]

Right now, I think the penalty was too severe. However, I think that if Stern really pushes to have the involved fans charged with assault and other various crimes, then it will show that he wants to protect his players. Until then, the penalty has been unfair to Ron Artest. If you were walking down the street and you saw him, you wouldn't dare throw a cup of ice in his face unless you wanted to get your ass kicked. Same should go for a basketball game - the fans should not be exempt from the law.

Right, the fans shouldn't be exempt from the law, I agree. Wasn't trying to absolve them.
HOWEVER, this whole situation is exempt from the law, or probably will be. Pro basketball players are, as has been shown in many instances (Jayson Williams, Carmelo Anthony, just as some recent ones) completely exempt from the law. And Ron Artest will be fine also. In real life, if someone threw an ice cube at you and you proceeded to go kick his butt, you think you would just get a suspension from your work? Nope. You'd get a jail sentence exceeding 6 months. Because that's aggravated assault. Which is illegal. Whereas, throwing a cup at someone will probably probably not get you a jail sentence. I'm not exactly sure what law you would be breaking unless it was Public disorderliness (Although, a guy I knew at Duke got charged with assault with a deadly weapon for dropping a water balloon on someone's head. Granted he was 60 feet above her).
Sorry, it's just very difficult for me to feel sorry for pro basketball players, particularly Ron Artest. Particularly when he's broken the law, not to mention any remote display of restraint or rationality and ALL THAT HAPPENS is a suspension from playing a game. And that's it.
Plus, he's just so fricking insane. I mean, the guy is CRAZY.

 

[Miloj]

Well... I dunno. Ron Artest is a punk of mammoth proportions. His past history certainly contributed to the suspension, and I think in this case, justly so. Sort of a three strikes and your out system. That's reasonable isn't it? Why would you run into the stands and punch a fan? I mean, he's so dumb he hit the wrong fan (that guy he hit had a cup in his hands, so chances are slim he actually threw anothe one, lol). He threw a cup of ice... yes, that's not cool, but does that deserve an assault from a seriously deranged player? Artest should not have been lying on the scorer's table in the first place.
I like the fact that David Stern laid down the law. The punishment was probably meant as a deterrent - to keep that nonsense from happening again ever. Hopefully it never does happen again, we'll see.
Also, they should either a) stop serving beer at games (although that would hugely suck) or b) move the stands back a bit... c) most unlikely - have like a breathalyzer each time you buy a beer. Fans shouldn't be able to throw things on players.... and they shouldn't be so drunk that they do.
What odds do you want that Artest will be the first player to be permanently expelled from the NBA next season? He's a nutcase!
Go Jazz!

P.S.
Also, as far as lawsuits, it's not clear to me that throwing ice is assault and battery... whereas what Artest did was aggravated assault....

I'm kinda curious but what would you do if someone threw a cup and almost hit you in the face? Dont tell me 'if i was getting so much money blah blah blah' tell me what you would do if someone threw a cup of beer/ice and almost hit you in the face. you wouldnt just sit there and look pretty now would you. Also, why is it bad that Artest was lying on the scorer's table? What the hell does that have to do with anything? He was actually doing good by staying away from Ben Wallace who had just basically hit him in the nose and throat when he pushed him. Artest was staying nice and calm despite Wallace going psycho over a little foul. I don't think that he was lying on the table had anything to do with it when he wasnt doing anything wrong then but staying calm.

 

[Caveman]

I've quit watching the NBA and this episode reminds me why. It is populated with nothing but thugs. I would like to see all of them earning a living flipping burgers at the golden arches. Then they may remember why they should show some restraint. They aren't your everyday people walking down the street. People tend to look up to them (no pun intended) and they need to at least try to act a little bit civilized. I really don't think the suspension was harsh enough. I feel Artest should be banned for life for all of the things he's done. Get rid of all the cash and he's nothing but a 9 foot tall thug in charge of the french fry machine.
My $.02 and you can keep the change.

 

[Chris]

I would like to see all of them earning a living flipping burgers at the golden arches. Then they may remember why they should show some restraint. They aren't your everyday people walking down the street. People tend to look up to them (no pun intended) and they need to at least try to act a little bit civilized.

:bingo:

The players are always going to have things yelled at them on the opposing team when they are playing on the road, that happens in any sport and the NBA is no exception. The players should be use to that, as the Pacers fans would be just as bad when they are at home with the opposing team. The only thing in common between the fans and players is that they are all human. Nothing beyond that links the players and the fans. The majority of the fans are going to be hard working Americans who are working for their money and making a small % of the millions and millions that the athletes are making for dribbling a ball up and down a court.

There's millions of adults, children, and teens who look up to them as role models so they should act that way. What kind of example are they setting for their fans who are obsessed with them? Are they teaching the kids it's okay to go crazy when someone throws a cup of beer at you? Is it showing the kids that it's okay to run up into the crowd and start beating fans for something so small? There's a thing called anger management and when someone does something to you and you act back in that way, that's not justifiable if you weren't in danger.

I can see defending yourself if you've been punched or hit with something, but a cup of beer you have to act like that?? Come on it was a cup of beer with no intentions of harming him, what can a cup do, knock you out?? If someone would of came down and punched him first then I think defending yourself is appropriate in that situation. However for what appears to be a plastic cup it was not a justifiable act no matter how one looks at it. Instead of acting like that he should of let security handle the individual and worried about being a role model, player, and a professional. He's not in law enforcement, let them do their job and take care of the individual/individuals that threw the cup.

The Yankees-Red Sox game 6 was ugly as well with fans throwing things at the players and onto the field, but did you see any of them jump the wall and attack the fans? No they retreated to the dug out and let the security handle their job. There was only 45.9 seconds left of the game, would it been so hard for Artest to ignore the fans and just worry about finishing out the game so he can get out of there?? Of course the fans are in the wrong as well, but if Artest wouldn't of been lying down on the table just taunting the fans to come down or throw something then it wouldn't of started.

The argument that they acted like anyone else would is ridiculous. They are not like anyone else, even though they are human, they should have a higher tolerance level with the fans since they face it at every away game. Every team and every player goes through that when they are playing on the road in any sport. Just because they are making millions and millions for nothing they think they can buy themselves out of any predictament they get into and there won't be any consequences. That goes for anyone famous with bucks.

Ben Wallace never started the brawl, he shoved Artest for the flagrant foul that about took his head off. Wallace never made Artest snap and go into the crowd to start throwing punches. He never made the other Pacers join Artest up in the crowd to throw punches. Ben never made Jermaine O'Neal take out a fan on the court. Their ignorance and lack of maturity got Artest suspended for the season, O'Neal for 25 games, and Jackson for 30. Those aren't harsh enough penalties for acting so childish and stupid when they are suppose to be grown adults and role models. They're not the average Joe flipping hamburgers at Burger King, they are professional NBA players so act that way.

I think all of the younger players in the league should remember Michael Jordan. He's a true role model for kids of all ages that has integrity, dignity, and professionalism that wouldn't of even thought about attacking a fan. They come right out of high school from being a no body with no money and go straight to making millions of bucks, but they still have the high school mind set now days.

 

[johnny6]

I'm kinda curious but what would you do if someone threw a cup and almost hit you in the face? Dont tell me 'if i was getting so much money blah blah blah' tell me what you would do if someone threw a cup of beer/ice and almost hit you in the face. you wouldnt just sit there and look pretty now would you. Also, why is it bad that Artest was lying on the scorer's table? What the hell does that have to do with anything? He was actually doing good by staying away from Ben Wallace who had just basically hit him in the nose and throat when he pushed him. Artest was staying nice and calm despite Wallace going psycho over a little foul. I don't think that he was lying on the table had anything to do with it when he wasnt doing anything wrong then but staying calm.

What would I do if someone threw a cup at me? I'd get over it. Because I know if I lost my temper and got into a fight, I'd go to jail. And, I don't want to go to jail. Artest doesn't have to worry about that (although, if you read the DA's comments, it could be I was wrong - looks like he might at least get charged with aggravated assault).

I don't know what world you live in (my guess is high school with a bunch of thugs), but in the actual world, if you fly off the handle and beat the crap out of anyone who irritates you or throws a cup at you (which, let's face it, is not exactly the end of the world) then you go to jail. And you stay there.

It's just not reasonable to think violence is the proper response to getting a cup thrown at you. It's kind of scary that you do.

As far as lying on the scoeres' table, I do think there was a little element of taunting to it. More to the point though, he should have gotten behind his teammates and gone to the bench. Even more to the point, do you need to commit a flagrant foul with 45 seconds left when you're up by 15? Of course not. But as I've always said, Artest is a PSYCHO.

 

[yandig]

Woah, you guys are writing alot about this. I'm "sportswild" myself, so I'll put in my $.02:

Artest definitely desrves the season-long suspension. He has a long list of offenses that plays into the length of this suspension. Also, in my mind HE is the one person responsible for the riot. Artest's hard foul & Wallace's retaliation are not the issue here. That's part of the game & has been for a long time. What's not part of the game is some fan throwing the beer (he should have his ticket privileges revoked), and Artest going wild, punching the guy in the face at least twice & then going berserk & heading into the stands. Enough said about him.
I think the suspensions to O'Neal & Jackson were too harsh, and I would like to see them reduced to 10 games. Wallace should be suspended, but if there were no riot, it would have probably been for only a game. The fact that the melee ensued gets him the extra five games.
The NBA is falling way behind MLB & the NFL in terms of popularity & they have to do something so that these kinds of incidents don't happen again. They need tougher security standards (unfortunately).
I saw a guy on TV this morning that says he is suing because he got hit with a chair. He looked fine to me. I hope he doesn't get anything, but he will probably get a settlement from the league.

 

[anthonyjdoe]

Artest and Jackson both should be banned from the NBA forever. First thing like people have said they are professioanls who get paid millions and yest because some idiot fan threww a plastic cup on him we are suppose to accept the fact that he not only went into the crowd to attack a fan but attacked an innocent man. This could be looked at in several different ways but the main point is he is suppose to be a pro and if a fan throwing a plastic cup of beer/water or whatever at him makes him mad enough to attack fans then he doesn't need to be in the NBA. If this was his first offense then the season suspension is fair and proper but he has been in similar situation before and handle them like a little kid. As far as Jackson he was doing nothing but attacking fans period, he wasting trying to help the situation he was throwing punches like an insane man. He had no right to hit any of those people, the fact that some guy threw a liquid in Artest face doesn't give Jackson the right to try and knock him out and for the fat guy on the court I can understand Artest defending himself there but Jackson came out of nowhere after Artest kncked him down and he did a super super flying sumo punch to the guys chops and laid him out...even if Artest comes back which I think he should not be able to..Jackson needs to be thrown out of the NBA...punishment is light if you ask me.....ask yourself this question if you attacked a customer after he threw water on you would you still have your job??

And to add to this..the only reason Artest ran into the stand is because he knows Wallace owuld have whooped his ass and he saw some little white kid and took his anger out on him...IMO

 

[anthonyjdoe]

Just to add..for people who don't think this is such a big deal or think the punishment was too severe...what about the kids in the stand..what if Artest or someone stepped on a kid or accidentally hit a kid..the fans who did what they did should be banned and fined..although some fans were protecting each other from the players. The kid in the court needs to be banned and fined for stepping on the court. I'm a man and I have control over what I do and someone throwing beer on me isn't gonna make me go into the stands like an idiot..I would point it out to security..simple as that and if I am Jackson and Artest goes into the stands I would hold him back not attack fans like a thug idiot...the NBS needs to bring in players that don't think they are thugs and gansters and are better than everyone else because the can play basketball..There should be a screen test with criminal background, random weekly drug testing and certain strict rules that players must adhere to in there personal lives..you get arrested with drugs you are banned from the NBa..you get a assult/felony charge same thing..these people are suppose to be professionals....the fans are suppose to be emotional...if the players can't hack it then they need to leave behind their million dollar contracts....bottom line they get paid way too much and act like little punks...I'd rather watch and1 anyday over the NBA...not to mention I still can't grasp how one NBA can beat another by 20+ points??? That doesn't seem professional to me..I'll stick to the NFL and MLB

 

[The Equivocate]

And to clarify... the clip of the little black kid crying was taken out of context. It turns out the kids dad was someone who jumped in the brawl and started throwing haymakers. He was crying at his own dad being unruly and getting into the brawl.

 

[johnny6]

And to clarify... the clip of the little black kid crying was taken out of context. It turns out the kids dad was someone who jumped in the brawl and started throwing haymakers. He was crying at his own dad being unruly and getting into the brawl.

Yeah, I saw that. His Dad was kicking some ass too. I had heard he got involved because someone ran over his kid or his wife on the way up to punch the dorky dude with glasses.
I agree with AnthonyJDoe that Artest ran up into the stands to punch that guy because he was hankering for a fight and was scared of Wallace. I mean, who wouldn't be scared of Wallace?